Will Trump win again???

[BLADEMDA]

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The U.S. Constitution says the president can be removed from office by Congress for “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanours.” Exactly what that means is unclear.
Before he became president in 1974, replacing Republican Richard Nixon who resigned over the Watergate scandal, Gerald Ford said: “An impeachable offence is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.”
Frank Bowman, a University of Missouri law professor and author of a forthcoming book on the history of impeachment, said Congress could look beyond criminal laws in defining “high crimes and misdemeanours.” Historically, it can encompass corruption and other abuses, including trying to obstruct judicial proceedings.

Explainer - What does it take to remove a U.S. president from office?

The "i word" - impeachment - is swirling around the U.S. Congress since the release of Special Counsel Robert Mueller's redacted Russia report, which painted a picture of lies, threats and confusion in Donald Trump's White House.

www.reuters.com

 

[BoolaHI]

In the end, this is a political trial, as you have pointed out, not a criminal one. Based on that fact and the lack of hard evidence the Republicans in the Senate will not remove him from office.

If the Democrats held 2/3 of the seats in the Senate Trump's future as POTUS would be very questionable at best. I did learn that "bribery" or "attempted bribery" is whatever the House of Representatives says it is in terms of an impeachable offense. There is no legal standard for impeachment. The House can impeach a President on anything they consider serious enough to warrant removal from office. The Senate then decides with a 2/3 majority if the impeachment is justifiable in removing a sitting President from office. That's why the founders made the requirement 2/3 of the Senate and not a simple majority.

You are on point on your second paragraph and what I wanted to address is some here suggest, incorrectly, that either incompetence or lack of awareness on the Ukrainians part, act as some form of affirmative defense-which it does not in either a criminal or political proceeding.

 

[DrGasPasser]

Security cam footage of Rudy during today’s testimony:

 

[BoolaHI]

So, what do other lawyers think about the performance of the R lead on the house side—spoiler alert, its not flattering at all, but it might give some a perspective from a peer level and the limited strategy and resources he has on his side.

Castor is being dragged on social media. Mocked. His questioning, meant to be in defense of Donald Trump and the Republican theory of the case against him, has been weak and ineffectual. He continually gets witnesses to repeat the Democrats’ talking points. He commits the cardinal lawyer sin of asking questions he doesn’t know the answer to. At one point during his questioning of E.U. Ambassador Gordon Sondland, he managed to get Sondland to repeat that meetings and aid to Ukraine was being held up because Trump wanted them to start investigations into his political rivals, and after screwing that up he shuffled papers, made an audible “aaaahhhck” sound, and then yielded minutes of questioning time to nobody in particular.

When You Have A Dog Of A Client And Work For A Complicit Party, You End Up Sounding Like Steve Castor - Above the Law

Steve Castor is being mocked, but he's just a defense attorney with nothing to work with.

abovethelaw.com

 

[Leon'sMom]

"The itsy bitsy spider crawled up the water spout. Down came the rain, and washed the spider out."---Itsy Bitsy Spider song.

https://www.congress.gov/106/cdoc/tdoc16/CDOC-106tdoc16.pdf

 

[BoolaHI]

I quit you Fox and I’ll release my financials and I’m actually richer than anyone thinks (if you want to play who has the bigger balance sheet, play with little Michael) sounds like someone had a fitful sleep...

Trump lashes out at Fox News amid impeachment fight

The president also again pledges to release his "financial statement" sometime before the election.

www.politico.com

 

[deleted171991]

I think the Trump quote that will live most infamously will be the one about shooting someone in NYC in public and his supporters not caring. This thread is filled with the most impressive demental gymnastics I've ever seen.

Fixed that for you.

Quid pro quo, bribery, one can call it whatever one wants, it's the same thing: dirt. To someone who grew up in a corrupt society, THIS IS HOW CORRUPTION LOOKS. It's beyond a smoking gun. There is even a LAW that says that the president cannot withhold foreign aid given by Congress.

This is not the America I know and love. And I hope that, one day, all those who keep getting us into this will be marginalized like the former Nazis.

It's also "very sad" that some people would sell their votes and the country for 30 pieces of silver. I don't want to ever hear them say that they love this country.

 

[BoolaHI]

Take a gander and contrast the two opening statements:

One, exhibits a lucid plain speak and demonstrates an obvious great capacity of intelligence coupled with decades of intimate on-the-ground experience and the rare ability to articulate a concise and clear summary of the germane players and threats. Note, she is a “fact witness” not a partisan lackey.

The other not so much and tells more gossip than a beauty parlor on a Saturday morning—telling.

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[BoolaHI]

Nothing like the guy who couldn’t make the JV basketball team, but owns the one basketball and craps his pants, and starts crying and storms off when he is told he is not able to play.

Seriously, a five time coward on the most dubious excuses for draft deferments, but yet he loves to play pretend soldiers.....

With a tweet, Trump dives deep into the Navy's chain of command

“The Navy will NOT be taking away Warfighter and Navy Seal Eddie Gallagher’s Trident Pin,” Trump tweeted.

www.politico.com

 

[Leon'sMom]

"Baa, baa, black sheep. Have you any wool? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 3 bags full."---Baa Baa Blacksheep song.

Nothing sadder than the sound of a DEATH RATTLE, unless it's the sound of the MSM's DEATH RATTLE...then it's kind of glorious. 🙂

Don't be a sheep. Think for yourself. Always.

 

[BoolaHI]

"Baa, baa, black sheep. Have you any wool? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 3 bags full."---Baa Baa Blacksheep song.

Nothing sadder than the sound of a DEATH RATTLE, unless it's the sound of the MSM's DEATH RATTLE...then it's kind of glorious. 🙂

Don't be a sheep. Think for yourself. Always.

Yup, can’t wait to hear more about the how the Rothschilds and the Kabbalah of Jewish bankers rule not just all monetary systems and central banks, but also have celestial ability to control the weather—good stuff.

 

[deleted171991]

"Baa, baa, black sheep. Have you any wool? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 3 bags full."---Baa Baa Blacksheep song.

Nothing sadder than the sound of a DEATH RATTLE, unless it's the sound of the MSM's DEATH RATTLE...then it's kind of glorious. 🙂

Don't be a sheep. Think for yourself. Always.

You are an inspiration and role model.

 

[vector2]

"Baa, baa, black sheep. Have you any wool? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 3 bags full."---Baa Baa Blacksheep song.

Nothing sadder than the sound of a DEATH RATTLE, unless it's the sound of the MSM's DEATH RATTLE...then it's kind of glorious. 🙂

Don't be a sheep. Think for yourself. Always.

 

[BoolaHI]

So here is very clear and unambiguous delineation of the time-line, (spoiler alert, it fissures the Presidents attempted defense).


On July 25 that make clear the Ukrainians were already aware of the hold-up in aid. At 2:31 p.m., an email from the State Department came to Cooper that read "Ukrainian embassy and House foreign affairs committee are asking about security assistance." Then another email two hours later, again from State, that made clear that "the Hill knows about the FMF (foreign military financing) situation to an extent and so does the Ukrainian embassy." And then, on that same day, Cooper said "a member of my staff got a question from a Ukraine embassy contact asking what was going on with Ukraine security assistance."

By the next day -- July 26 -- US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland was on the phone with Trump telling the President that the Ukrainians were ready to announce the investigations that had been clearly established as a precondition to, at a minimum, securing the White House meeting Zelensky so craved.

Those facts from Cooper blow a hole in the carefully crafted timeline presented by Trump and the White House. If the Ukrainians were already aware of the military hold in late July -- and knew their desired meeting with Trump was being held up because of the lack of an announcement of the investigations Trump wanted -- then the idea that there could be no quid pro quo is out the window.


It’s worth noting here that by the time Trump had that call with Sondland on September 9, it had been a week since acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire had informed the White House counsel's office that a whistleblower complaint had been filed in regard to Trump's phone call with Zelensky and the broader administration's efforts to pressure Ukraine to announce investigations.

The timeline is of critical import to Trump's paper-thin defenses. It's the foundation of the argument that there couldn't possibly be a quid pro quo because Zelensky and the Ukrainians weren't aware of the military aid hold-up. Now, at least according to the verified emails Cooper produced, that is not accurate.

 

[vector2]

Take a gander and contrast the two opening statements:

One, exhibits a lucid plain speak and demonstrates an obvious great capacity of intelligence coupled with decades of intimate on-the-ground experience and the rare ability to articulate a concise and clear summary of the germane players and threats. Note, she is a “fact witness” not a partisan lackey.

The other not so much and tells more gossip than a beauty parlor on a Saturday morning—telling.

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Can I just say after watching some of Dr. Hill's testimony today and seeing how sharp she is, I really don't care which political party she affiliates with and I'm just glad she's on our (American) side.

 

[deleted87051]

Azar- Eli Lilly
Mnuchin - Goldman
Cohn - Goldman
Kudlow - Wall St
Ross - Private equity
Esper - Raytheon
McMahon - WWE
DeVos - Amway/Private equity
Tillerson - Exxon

Manafort - jail
Cohen - jail
Flynn - jail
Gates - jail
Papadopoulos - jail
Price - insider trading
Zinke - graft
Pruitt - graft
Guiliani - under investigation
Perry - dumb as a brick

 

[BoolaHI]

Can I just say after watching some of Dr. Hill's testimony today and seeing how sharp she is, I really don't care which political party she affiliates with and I'm just glad she's on our (American) side.

She is just sharp-sharp. Impressive, when for the most part, we are filled with a room of base mediocrity...

 

[BoolaHI]

Can I just say after watching some of Dr. Hill's testimony today and seeing how sharp she is, I really don't care which political party she affiliates with and I'm just glad she's on our (American) side.

The sad thing is that she had to share the podium with the bovine dim wit himself, Nunes.

 

[deleted171991]

I don't even care what the White House says anymore. There are thousands of proven lies in the last 3 years. Why would any DECENT human being elect a habitual liar and sociopath? I get it: some idiots actually thought that Hillary was an even less decent human being (sorry, but she's not, it would be VERY hard to).

In 2020, there will be no Hillary. So start rationalizing why you'll be selling the country out. AGAIN.

Even if the WH said the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth (imagine that, if you can), the Vindman, Sondland and Volker testimonies (and others), plus Mulvaney's slip are as damning as mobster witnesses in a RICO trial.

The Republican party will make a fantastic study in mass psychology, after all is said and done. Something akin to the Stanford prison experiment. I am rarely sorrier there is no God etc., because all these people would go to hell, for sure. Actually, I find it laughable when a Christian rationalizes voting for Trump as avoiding socialism (double sin/lie - any true Christian would avoid Trump like the plague, and Jesus was a socialist). And I would be shocked if Trump won't be diagnosed with dementia at some point; this is how it looks in a bad person. Biden probably has the same, but in a much better quality human being.

I really can't make up my mind who's more disgusting: the White House people or those who put them there. I have never felt like this in two decades of following American politics.

 

[Matty44]

I don't even care what the White House says anymore. There are thousands of proven lies in the last 3 years. Why would any DECENT human being elect a habitual liar and sociopath? I get it: some idiots actually thought that Hillary was an even less decent human being (sorry, but she's not, it would be VERY hard to).

In 2020, there will be no Hillary. So start rationalizing why you're selling the country out.

Did your account get hacked?



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[deleted171991]

Did your account get hacked?



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Nope. I just watched the impeachment proceedings, and Trump's Twitter reactions and witness intimidations (plus his disgusting interference with military justice), and I just ran out of excuses and rationalizations. I am even more convinced that the man doesn't belong in the Oval than I was on November 8, 2016. I would take even Pence over him any day.

 

[Matty44]

Nope. I just watched the impeachment proceedings, and Trump's Twitter reactions and witness intimidations (plus his disgusting interference with military justice), and I just ran out of excuses and rationalizations. I am even more convinced that the man doesn't belong in the Oval than I was on November 8, 2016. I would take even Pence over him any day.

Witness intimidation? Really?

You sound like vector now...


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[d9sccr]

It’s funny how the goalposts are moving. Originally, the charge was a quid pro quo for Biden. Now it’s bribery and any “quid pro quo”—like our foreign aid doesn’t come w strings attached or the President doesn’t have broad power when it comes to foreign policy. It’s no wonder public sentiment for this is waning.

For everyone wanting to impeach and remove Trump, how do you feel about the Democratic Senators sending a letter to Ukraine, pushing for cooperation with Mueller investigations and a questionable implied threat of aid?

 

[Leon'sMom]

"London Bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down. London Bridge is falling down, my fair lady."---London Bridge song

Prince Andrew relieved of his royal public duties by the Queen.
Some of Jeffrey Epstein's sex slave victims of Prince Andrew are asking the FBI to investigate.

For those who need more information about this entire EPSTEIN scandal, you can do a quick internet research of the following terms:
Virginia Roberts Guiffre
Little St James Island, US Virgin Islands
Lolita Express passenger logs
Zorro Ranch in New Mexico
$77 million NYC townhouse gifted to him by Leslie Wexner the L Brands owner (Victoria Secret parent company)
Ghislaine Maxwell and who her father was and how her father died

When you logically can find NO reason for Epstein to be filthy rich through his earning as a math teacher, and when no one on Wall Street can corroborate Epstein's supposed hedge fund operation, how did he REALLY make his money?

When he owned property in NY, NM, FL, US VI...and a private plane to fly himself and others...
When some of the most powerful and famous people in the world traveled with him...
Princes and US Presidents (with Secret Service) and actors...

When it doesn't seem possible that such an operation could exist as such an OPEN SECRET, you have to ask yourself: WHAT WAS THE REAL PURPOSE OF EPSTEIN AND WHO PLACED HIM IN THE ROLE? WHAT WAS THE REAL PURPOSE OF PEDO ISLAND? WHERE DID THE CHILDREN COME FROM AND HOW DID THEY GET THERE?

If you find yourself thinking that you are morally superior to some of your fellow posters, I challenge you to investigate Epstein, his whole life and purpose.

If you find yourself thinking that you are morally superior to some of your fellow Americans, I challenge you to investigate the level of crime, corruption, depravity, and cover-up necessary for Epstein's international operation to exist.

If you find yourself thinking you are morally superior to Trump voters, I challenge you to research Human Trafficking, what it is, where it occurs, how lucrative it is, Clinton-Silsby Haiti Trafficking Scandal, and then research all of Trump's initiatives to stop Human Trafficking and EO 13818 (12/21/17).

The difference between some of you and me is this: I do not think I am morally superior to you, or that you are morally superior to me. We are all human beings, equally flawed. I do not think that I am intellectually superior to you, or that you are intellectually superior to me. We are all human beings capable of free thought and logical thinking.

The reason for our differences of opinion are based solely on what information we have consumed, believed, and used to formulate our thoughts, and therefore, our feelings. There is SO MUCH information available to us. A lot of it is right in front of our eyes, yet we refuse to see it or believe it. It's uncomfortable. It challenges every facet of our personal identity, our lives, our world. The more you see, the more you realize that you only know the tip of the iceberg on most of this stuff. It's unsettling, But, please, it is not useful to vilify others who are simply at a different point on the path to understanding. We are all capable of civility, and that should be our constant companion on the path. Peace.

 

[deleted171991]

It’s funny how the goalposts are moving. Originally, the charge was a quid pro quo for Biden. Now it’s bribery and any “quid pro quo”—like our foreign aid doesn’t come w strings attached or the President doesn’t have broad power when it comes to foreign policy. It’s no wonder public sentiment for this is waning.

For everyone wanting to impeach and remove Trump, how do you feel about the Democratic Senators sending a letter to Ukraine, pushing for cooperation with Mueller investigations and a questionable implied threat of aid?

It's a typical legal discovery process. Of course they couldn't call it bribery back then there was no proof of it, just a whistleblower. At the same time, if one loves democracy in America (not the De Tocqueville book), one can't just tolerate presidential misconduct without batting an eye.

I will remind you: there is a law from the seventies that specifically says that the president is NOT allowed to withhold foreign aid once it has been voted into law by Congress. If I remember correctly, they wrote the law specifically because Nixon was playing the same games.

It is illegal for the president to play games with foreign aid. But doing it for personal gain makes it bribery, not just quid pro quo, or "the art of the deal".

Also, having seen corruption in my life, it looks EXACTLY like this: we can do this for you, in exchange for a small favor. And I wouldn't be so fast in disregarding the entire Steele dossier, especially since it gives context why Trump may be doing everything possible to keep Russia happy; it's the typical modus operandi of the KGB (find one's weak point and then blackmail him).

 

[deleted171991]

Witness intimidation? Really?

You sound like vector now...

You and I have different life histories. For many immigrants, this is deja vu.

The average native-born and raised American is so nice and naive that s/he can't simply imagine that humans have these absolutely disgusting souls deep inside (as Jordan Peterson so clearly points out all the time). That's why most immigrants are so grateful for the simple privilege of being here, that's why they would never burn the flag, that's why America IS already great for us, and definitely among the greatest in the world, despite all the blemishes along history.

Lt. Col. Vindman's, Ambassador Yovanovitch's or Dr. Hill's personal attitudes and patriotism for this country are nothing out of the ordinary for immigrants (or first generations). And one can't LOVE this country and just watch a president keep breaking the law and acting against her best interests (Western democracy has few, if any, greater enemies than Russia). The Founders didn't want a king. Which other country has an interdiction against nobility titles in its constitution?

Perspective (and political education - which most of us get through life experiences) do matter tremendously.

 

[DrGasPasser]

Can I just say after watching some of Dr. Hill's testimony today and seeing how sharp she is, I really don't care which political party she affiliates with and I'm just glad she's on our (American) side.

Why? Was it her British accent that impressed you so?

For someone who is supposedly such an astute expert on Ukraine, she struck me as someone pushing the Democratic narrative by conflating two very different conspiracy theories.

On one hand, she correctly articulated the absurd notion being peddled by Trump and some dip**** members of his inner circle that Ukraine, not Russia, somehow hacked the DNC, and the server is somewhere in the basement of the Ukrainian Parliament. Trump referred to this outlandish theory in his now infamous call. Ms. Hill correctly identifies that as hogwash and Trump owns the fallout for peddling it.

On the other hand, Ms Hill conveniently fails to acknowledge the growing evidence that elements of the Ukrainian government worked closely with the Obama Administration, DNC, and Clinton operatives to damage then-candidate Trump in the run up to the 2016 election. This includes the following:

1) Acknowledgments by Ukrainian investigators that their Obama administration counterparts encouraged them to investigate Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. This resulted in Ukrainian officials leaking information damaging to Manafort in the form of an unverified ledger of tax crimes that forced Manafort’s ouster from the Trump campaign and triggered waves of negative publicity for the campaign. Keep in mind this ledger was the evidence that was used by Mueller to reopen investigations on Manafort but was never itself introduced as evidence because, like the Steele Dossier, it was full of bull****; they hung Manafort on tax (and many other) crimes that occurred long before he joined the campaign. Don’t get me wrong, I have no love for Paul Manafort, but let’s not pretend that he would be in prison had he not worked for Trump and gotten “extra” attention from outside sources.

2) A Ukrainian court, in late 2018, concluded that two Ukrainian officials meddled in the 2016 election by coordinating with the DNC.

3) Nellie Ohr, who worked for Fusion GPS, the Clinton campaign opposition research firm that produced the lurid and discredited Steele dossier, conceded that a pro-Clinton Ukrainian legislator was a Fusion informant. By the way, Nellie and Bruce Ohr should be familiar names at this point and they will likely play significant roles in the upcoming DOJ IG report next month.

So, I find it implausible that this so called expert on Ukraine would be completely unaware of the very real possibility that members of the Obama Administration, DNC, and Clinton campaign did **** in Ukraine that make Trump’s call seem tame.

 

[BoolaHI]

Why? Was it her British accent that impressed you so?

For someone who is supposedly such an astute expert on Ukraine, she struck me as someone pushing the Democratic narrative by conflating two very different conspiracy theories.

On one hand, she correctly articulated the absurd notion being peddled by Trump and some dip**** members of his inner circle that Ukraine, not Russia, somehow hacked the DNC, and the server is somewhere in the basement of the Ukrainian Parliament. Trump referred to this outlandish theory in his now infamous call. Ms. Hill correctly identifies that as hogwash and Trump owns the fallout for peddling it.

On the other hand, Ms Hill conveniently fails to acknowledge the growing evidence that elements of the Ukrainian government worked closely with the Obama Administration, DNC, and Clinton operatives to damage then-candidate Trump in the run up to the 2016 election. This includes the following:

1) Acknowledgments by Ukrainian investigators that their Obama administration counterparts encouraged them to investigate Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. This resulted in Ukrainian officials leaking information damaging to Manafort in the form of an unverified ledger of tax crimes that forced Manafort’s ouster from the Trump campaign and triggered waves of negative publicity for the campaign. Keep in mind this ledger was the evidence that was used by Mueller to reopen investigations on Manafort but was never itself introduced as evidence because, like the Steele Dossier, it was full of bull****; they hung Manafort on tax (and many other) crimes that occurred long before he joined the campaign. Don’t get me wrong, I have no love for Paul Manafort, but let’s not pretend that he would be in prison had he not worked for Trump and gotten “extra” attention from outside sources.

2) A Ukrainian court, in late 2018, concluded that two Ukrainian officials meddled in the 2016 election by coordinating with the DNC.

3) Nellie Ohr, who worked for Fusion GPS, the Clinton campaign opposition research firm that produced the lurid and discredited Steele dossier, conceded that a pro-Clinton Ukrainian legislator was a Fusion informant. By the way, Nellie and Bruce Ohr should be familiar names at this point and they will likely play significant roles in the upcoming DOJ IG report next month.

So, I find it implausible that this so called expert on Ukraine would be completely unaware of the very real possibility that members of the Obama Administration, DNC, and Clinton campaign did **** in Ukraine that make Trump’s call seem tame.

No, maybe it’s the combination of the following:

Her stellar academic credentials: St. Andrews University and a masters and PhD from Harvard in Eastern European History. Now, maybe for some, the presentation of such haughty institutions comes off as elite, as well it should, as she is an elite thinker and academic—by way of specific example, the acceptance rate into such a PhD program hovers around 2-3 percent out of an already culled down self-selected applicant group, e.g. only the best of the best.

Her professional government service should be noted has her serving more R administrations than Ds.
Hill worked in the research department at the John F. Kennedy School of Government from 1991 to 1999, and at the National Intelligence Council as a national intelligence analyst of Russia and Eurasia from 2006 to 2009. In 2017, she took a leave of absence from the Brookings Institution, where she was director for the Center on the United States and Europe, while serving on the National Security Council.

Hill served as an intelligence analyst under Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama from 2006 to 2009. She was appointed, in the first quarter of 2017, by President Donald Trump as Deputy Assistant to the President and Senior Director for European and Russian Affairs on his National Security Council staff.

If you are suggesting she is unqualified or inexperienced— nothing could be farther than from both truth and reality.
I

 

[DrGasPasser]

No, maybe it’s the combination of the following:

Her stellar academic credentials: St. Andrews University and a masters and PhD from Harvard in Eastern European History. Now, maybe for some, the presentation of such haughty institutions comes off as elite, as well it should, as she is an elite thinker and academic—by way of specific example, the acceptance rate into such a PhD program hovers around 2-3 percent out of an already culled down self-selected applicant group, e.g. only the best of the best.

Her professional government service should be noted has her serving more R administrations than Ds.
Hill worked in the research department at the John F. Kennedy School of Government from 1991 to 1999, and at the National Intelligence Council as a national intelligence analyst of Russia and Eurasia from 2006 to 2009. In 2017, she took a leave of absence from the Brookings Institution, where she was director for the Center on the United States and Europe, while serving on the National Security Council.

Hill served as an intelligence analyst under Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama from 2006 to 2009. She was appointed, in the first quarter of 2017, by President Donald Trump as Deputy Assistant to the President and Senior Director for European and Russian Affairs on his National Security Council staff.

If you are suggesting she is unqualified or inexperienced— nothing could be farther than from both truth and reality.
I

No, I’m suggesting that it is implausible that someone with her position and impeccable credentials could be so unaware of the Ukrainian coordination with elements of our government and the DNC.

There is nothing illogical in believing both that Russia hacked the Democrats and that Ukraine supported the Democrats.

Hill’s efforts at concealing the very real possibility of Ukrainian collusion with elements of our government by claiming that such theories had been debunked detracts from her record of achievement. She now reminds me more of partisans like Schiff who obsessively pursued and supported a different and now debunked conspiracy theory - namely that Trump conspired with Moscow to steal the 2016 election.

In other words, the best evidence suggests that the Russians tried to hurt the Democrats, the Ukrainians tried to help the Democrats, and Trump didn’t conspire with any foreign power in the lead up to the election. Hill’s inability to acknowledge the possibility of that second piece of the equation (or accept the last) is a problem for her credibility.

 

[BoolaHI]

No, I’m suggesting that it is implausible that someone with her position and impeccable credentials could be so unaware of the Ukrainian coordination with elements of our government and the DNC.

There is nothing illogical in believing both that Russia hacked the Democrats and that Ukraine supported the Democrats.

Hill’s efforts at concealing the very real possibility of Ukrainian collusion with elements of our government by claiming that such theories had been debunked detracts from her record of achievement. She now reminds me more of partisans like Schiff who obsessively pursued and supported a different and now debunked conspiracy theory - namely that Trump conspired with Moscow to steal the 2016 election.

In other words, the best evidence suggests that the Russians tried to hurt the Democrats, the Ukrainians tried to help the Democrats, and Trump didn’t conspire with any foreign power in the lead up to the election. Hill’s inability to acknowledge the possibility of that second piece of the equation (or accept the last) is a problem for her credibility.

Fair and reasonable points.

 

[Leon'sMom]

"I'm bringing home a baby bumblebee. Won't my mommy be so proud of me? I'm bringing home a baby bumblebee. Ouch! It bit me!"---I'm Bringing Home a Baby Bumblebee song

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Part 2, begin at 1 hr 30 min point:

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[BoolaHI]

"I'm bringing home a baby bumblebee. Won't my mommy be so proud of me? I'm bringing home a baby bumblebee. Ouch! It bit me!"---I'm Bringing Home a Baby Bumblebee song

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Wow, at least you were entirely objective and you selected a piece from a totally unbiased network and an unbiased mouthpiece — deep sigh—not.

 

[BoolaHI]

Hmmmn, if you didn’t think there is an actual division, not in our country, but within the Republican Party, peruse through the National Review, and you will find a rather vibrant and profound discussion, among fellow conservatives about the direction not so much of the country, but the leadership of its current President. These are not liberal stoners, Gen Xers, and the AOC squad, but rather tried and true GOP voters. It’s rather telling that their critique is as strong and vibrant as those on the D side—and make no mistake about it, these opinions are not outliers, but represent the square middle of the party and are quite plentiful.

By way of specific example—The Road That Brought Conservatives and Republicans to This Point | National Review

 

[Matty44]

No, I’m suggesting that it is implausible that someone with her position and impeccable credentials could be so unaware of the Ukrainian coordination with elements of our government and the DNC.

There is nothing illogical in believing both that Russia hacked the Democrats and that Ukraine supported the Democrats.

It’s illogical to the left because then they would have to acknowledge that even if there was a quid pro quo, it would be a legal one because Trump was asking Zelensky to look into legit corruption. The whole premise for their sham impeachment falls apart.


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[Matty44]

Wow, at least you were entirely objective and you selected a piece from a totally unbiased network and an unbiased mouthpiece — deep sigh—not.

Ok Boo, just make sure you go back and delete every article that you linked for CNN, MSNBC, NY times, Slate and Vox, k?


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[Mikkel]

Turns out an FBI attorney altered documents used for the FISA warrant.

 

[Matty44]

You and I have different life histories. For many immigrants, this is deja vu.

Ya know what’s also deja vu for many immigrants?

Socialism.

I thought that was your underlying premise for calling out the nonsense that is going on in this country.

The threat of the left and socialism is many multiples more threatening than anything Trump has done, said, or tweeted.



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[BoolaHI]

Ok Boo, just make sure you go back and delete every article that you linked for CNN, MSNBC, NY times, Slate and Vox, k?


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Check my cited articles, and by a large margin, they are from the National Review....

 

[Matty44]

Check my cited articles, and by a large margin, they are from the National Review....

Could you please go back for the entire thread and give me a breakdown of what percent of your cited articles come from each individual news source? A simple pie chart would be fine. Thanks.


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[BoolaHI]

Could you please go back for the entire thread and give me a breakdown of what percent of your cited articles come from each individual news source? A simple pie chart would be fine. Thanks.


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Hold your breath on that one...

 

[BoolaHI]

And the National Review for the first two weeks of the impeachment proceeding is calling it a TKO in favor of the Ds....

Why Democrats Have Been Running Rings around Republicans on Impeachment | National Review

The president’s supporters have been trying to defend ground that is indefensible.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[BoolaHI]

And so refreshing and inspiring that we have a President that places a large priority in both advancing greater public health issues and protecting our youth—-not.

Trump Warns of Dangers in Banning Vape Flavors

President Trump suggested he is softening his stance on a proposal to pull sweet and fruity e-cigarettes off the market, saying that prohibition can have dangerous consequences.

www.wsj.com

 

[Matty44]

Ruh roh [emoji15]

Independents sure aren’t buying impeachment. Support dropped from 53% to 39% from before to after the hearings.

Wonder why?

New Polling Suggests Democrats’ Impeachment Push Could Alienate Key Voters

Data exclusive to Vanity Fair shows impeachment could be a losing issue for Democrats hoping to recruit Independents in 2020. “Lots of people who don’t like Trump who are still prepared to vote for him,” says one political science expert.

www.google.com

“Regardless of what they think about Trump’s behavior, Independents see impeachment as a continuation of the partisan bickering and media excess that began even before his inauguration. By massive margins, Independents say that the impeachment issue is “more important to politicians than it is to me” (62% to 22%) and “more important to the media than it is to me” (61% to 23%). It is hard to read this as anything but a warning to the Democratic leadership and candidates: Stop talking about issues that matter to you, not to me.”

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[deleted171991]

Ya know what’s also deja vu for many immigrants?

Socialism.

I thought that was your underlying premise for calling out the nonsense that is going on in this country.

The threat of the left and socialism is many multiples more threatening than anything Trump has done, said, or tweeted.



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You are overestimating the risk of true socialism. The brainwashed Gen Y- and Z-ers will become more conservative as they age and get fed up with paying high taxes.

It's about the same as the risk of fascism on the right. That is also a non-zero entity. At least, in "socialism", you will still have a democracy.

To me, the simple fact that Russia supports a candidate is almost a 100% reason to vote the opposite way. Only an idiot would think that Russia wants the best for America (or for any democracy). It's one of the most corrupt and autocratic countries in the world, the kind of place Trump loves, where you say anything against the dear leader and you suffer the consequences.

 

[Matty44]

You are overestimating the risk of true socialism. The brainwashed Gen Y- and Z-ers will become more conservative as they age and get fed up with paying high taxes.

It's about the same as the risk of fascism on the right. That is also a non-zero entity. At least, in "socialism", you will still have a democracy.

To me, the simple fact that Russia supports a candidate is almost a 100% reason to vote the opposite way. Only an idiot would think that Russia wants the best for America.

So you think the policies of the left have less potential to damage America, it’s freedoms and it’s values than does Trump asking Zelensky to investigate the Bidens corruption? Even if it was a flat out quid pro quo? That’s more of a risk to our republic????


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[deleted171991]

So you think the policies of the left have less potential to damage America, it’s freedoms and it’s values than does Trump asking Zelensky to investigate the Bidens corruption? Even if it was a flat out quid pro quo? That’s more of a risk to our republic????


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Trump is the greatest threat to American democracy this country has seen in generations; that's what my gut tells me.

As a quasi-libertarian, I probably agree with him on more things than I disagree. I just think he has a despicable character that's not fit to lead this country, beginning with a profound disrespect for the Constitution and our laws. And he attracts the worst kind of people, and surrounds himself with them, because what he cares the most about is the cult of his personality. And POWER.

 

[Leon'sMom]

To me, the simple fact that Russia supports a candidate is almost a 100% reason to vote the opposite way. Only an idiot would think that Russia wants the best for America (or for any democracy). It's one of the most corrupt and autocratic countries in the world, the kind of place Trump loves, where you say anything against the dear leader and you suffer the consequences.

I highly suggest you watch the movie "Ukraine on Fire." It's on Amazon Prime. (Not to be confused with Netflix's "Winter on Fire")

 

[deleted171991]

I highly suggest you watch the movie "Ukraine on Fire." It's on Amazon Prime. (Not to be confused with Netflix's "Winter on Fire")

I don't need to watch anything to know that Ukraine, like that part of Europe, is a cesspool of corruption. You know why? Because of Russia (and its former Soviet Union). The current Ukrainian president is one of those freak accidents of history, like Obama.

Russia has always been a corrupt autocratic entity that has destroyed Eastern Europe. Everything they touch turns into a ****hole country. The closer you get to Russia, the more rotten it gets. They like their imperialist sphere of influence that way, because it's much easier to control and exploit a failed country. That also applies to people, by the way; a person of character will rarely make it there. If you can't be blackmailed, you are not allowed to become successful. Hence Trump's friendship with Putin makes him highly suspicious in the eyes of anybody who knows anything about that part of the world (e.g. the intelligence community).

 

[deleted500612]

You are overestimating the risk of true socialism. The brainwashed Gen Y- and Z-ers will become more conservative as they age and get fed up with paying high taxes.

It's about the same as the risk of fascism on the right. That is also a non-zero entity. At least, in "socialism", you will still have a democracy.

Depends who the DNC candidate is... if it's Warren or Sanders there is a real chance of them ramming through true socialism, including eradicating private insurance, slashing your reimbursement significantly and increasing taxation across the board. Just look at their platforms; they aren't hiding it, they are boasting about it. Their platforms are literally a race to the bottom to see who can promise the most free sh|t and handouts. Then they will continue on this path of "open borders and full social benefits for all illegals!" to deliberately incentivize a continued tidal surge of migrants that will ensure a conservative presidency never occurs again. You never, ever go full socialist. There is no going back. Talk to any Venezuelan about that.

I could stomach a Buttigieg or Biden white house but a Sanders/Warren ticket would turn the entire country into a dystopian socialist dumpster fire, whereas Trump at least is only turning Capitol Hill into a dysfunctional dumpster fire while leaving the economy and the rest of us intact. Ruining the entire economy and my career earning potential along with it is not a better outcome to me than to just put up with 24 hour media coverage of Trump's asinine tweets and narcissistic bullheadedness for 4 more years.

Trump is the greatest threat to American democracy this country has seen in generations; that's what my gut tells me.

Really? This is such hyperbole it sounds like a CNN talking point.

As a quasi-libertarian, I probably agree with him on more things than I disagree. I just think he has a despicable character that's not fit to lead this country, beginning with a profound disrespect for the Constitution and our laws.

I agree he is not a man of good character or integrity. However, I'd rather vote for a corrupt a-hole who runs on reasonable policies than an equally corrupt but far more clandestine polished diplomat who runs on outlandish and historically disastrous socialist idealisms. Openly peddling fantasies of wanting to burn the whole system to the ground while inviting the entirety of the third world to share the crumbs, hand guiding them across a big open border with a welcome sign in the form of endless handouts because he thinks it's unacceptable that a person's earnings should be in accordance with their free market value or that immigration controls should exist. I mean, why the hell would dems have any interest in enforcing immigration laws when they know 99% of illegals will support the candidate who gives the most handouts, which is always a democrat. You mention Trump not respecting laws, while most democrats have started brazenly campaigning on deliberately not respecting any immigration laws whatsoever. Not only relinquishing controls on our international borders, but then enacting sanctuary policies to make sure that no illegal can ever be prosecuted for immigration violations... and if you disagree with them spitting on and walking all over our immigration laws you're a racist!

 

[deleted171991]

Depends who the DNC candidate is... if it's Warren or Sanders there is a real chance of them ramming through true socialism, including eradicating private insurance, slashing your reimbursement significantly and increasing taxation across the board. Just look at their platforms; they aren't hiding it, they are boasting about it. Their platforms are literally a race to the bottom to see who can promise the most free sh|t and handouts. Then they will continue on this path of "open borders and full social benefits for all illegals!" to deliberately incentivize a continued tidal surge of migrants that will ensure a conservative presidency never occurs again. You never, ever go full socialist. There is no going back. Talk to any Venezuelan about that.

I could stomach a Buttigieg or Biden white house but a Sanders/Warren ticket would turn the entire country into a dystopian socialist dumpster fire, whereas Trump at least is only turning Capitol Hill into a dysfunctional dumpster fire while leaving the economy and the rest of us intact. Ruining the entire economy and my career earning potential along with it is not a better outcome to me than to just put up with 24 hour media coverage of Trump's asinine tweets and narcissistic bullheadedness for 4 more years.



Really? This is such hyperbole it sounds like a CNN talking point.



I agree he is not a man of good character or integrity. However, I'd rather vote for a corrupt a-hole who runs on reasonable policies than an equally corrupt but far more clandestine polished diplomat who runs on outlandish and historically disastrous socialist idealisms. Openly peddling fantasies of wanting to burn the whole system to the ground while inviting the entirety of the third world to share the crumbs, hand guiding them across a big open border with a welcome sign in the form of endless handouts because he thinks it's unacceptable that a person's earnings should be in accordance with their free market value or that immigration controls should exist. I mean, why the hell would dems have any interest in enforcing immigration laws when they know 99% of illegals will support the candidate who gives the most handouts, which is always a democrat. You mention Trump not respecting laws, while most democrats have started brazenly campaigning on deliberately not respecting any immigration laws whatsoever. Not only relinquishing controls on our international borders, but then enacting sanctuary policies to make sure that no illegal can ever be prosecuted for immigration violations... and if you disagree with them spitting on and walking all over our immigration laws you're a racist!

What's really sad is that this country made Nixon resign for lying to the people, and this guy lies constantly and his base just tries to rationalize it. It's a character flaw, and "character is destiny". OUR destiny.

It basically means that Americans are being brainwashed into getting used to living in a ****hole country, based on the kind of people in leadership positions, and considering it the new "normal". THAT's the danger to American democracy.

The current Republican party reminds me of the corrupt politics of my native country. It stinks of special interests to high heaven. That's why they support and join the cult of Trump; one hand washes the other. If people think the Clintons were corrupt, they ain't seen nothing yet. Just watch what the government is doing (if you want to know one's character, give one power - e.g. Ajit Pai). Ukraine is just a drop in the ocean.