Wise to Delay Match After 4th year?

[fishrmelife]

(tried to find a similar thread without success)

I'm a Third Year considering delaying the match until AFTER the 4th year. Is this wise or foolish? Will it hurt my chances? Would apply during the 5th year and begin residency immediately afterwards.

The benefits, as I see them are
1) More electives to fine-tune career decision-making
2) Do electives in ICU / EM in order to get strong letters before the October deadline.
2) Finish research and complete an MPH in the 5th year

I want to do academic medicine eventually. I have a high step and decently good grades, attend a top 15 med school.

Thanks for the sage advice.

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[RTrain]

If you're really going to start and/or complete an MPH or other advanced degree, it could be helpful, and would at least do no harm, to wait until after you graduate to match.

If you aren't going to do anything that will actively further your academic career, then it would be unwise to wait. You will join the great masses of "non-U.S.-seniors" who are looking for spots, and that can be a tough group to be in.

 

[orientedtoself]

1) More electives to fine-tune career decision-making

as in figure out what field to apply to?

 

[fishrmelife]

as in figure out what field to apply to?

Essentially, yes.

I'm trying to decide between 2-3 fields, and I have to do away rotations for one because my school doesn't have an EM program. It's putting me in a real bind and I'm afraid won't have time to do electives in other fields AND put together a solid personal statement and application before the fall deadlines.

I would feel a lot better if I had more time before the match to figure out exactly what I want. (And I think I would interview with more confidence.)

What do you think?

 

[barcalounger]

I have to do away rotations for one because my school doesn't have an EM program.

You're at a top 15 school which doesn't have an EM program?

Being a non-US senior can be a drawback. You might want to consider delaying your actual graduation until you are ready to match.

 

[fishrmelife]

You're at a top 15 school which doesn't have an EM program?

Being a non-US senior can be a drawback. You might want to consider delaying your actual graduation until you are ready to match.

Baylor College of Medicine = no EM program. Working on getting one by 2012. Thanks for the advice.

Is non-US Senior discrimination widespread?

 

[roja]

although its not traditional, I have seen many people do this. Over the past five years, I have seen a number of ivy leaguers do this.
I have two close friends who did it as well.


The key is to have a reason. To complete an mph, to gain more insight, all are good reasons, if you are particularly uncertain.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

They call it "splitting" here (an Ivy) and it's not uncommon for students to take an extra year to explore different careers or strengthen their resume for super competitive fields. I think you’re fine to take an extra year if need be but just plan accordingly and don’t plan to graduate. Finally, you have July, August, Sept, Oct to figure out your career plans. If you have good steps than EM should be no problem for you. You don’t need a world beater CV to match well.

 

[TaiShan]

You have to have a good reason (MPH, reserach, oversea mission, illness, preganacy,etc). Some licensing/credential committees require an explanantion if you spent more than four years in medical school.

 

[DrDawg]

If you really want an MPH than go for it. But if you just want to do more rotations why not a prelim/transition year? You wouldn't increase you debt, and would get real exposure to EM or ICU not the waterred down med school stuff. Have you talked to your schools dean?

 

[doc20]

You have to have a good reason (MPH, reserach, oversea mission, illness, preganacy,etc). Some licensing/credential committees require an explanantion if you spent more than four years in medical school.

he still be graduating in 4 years, and have his M.D. the 5 th year would be just spent doing other things which really doesn't count towards getting the degree

 

[barcalounger]

.

 

[Blade28]

You have to have a good reason (MPH, reserach, oversea mission, illness, preganacy,etc). Some licensing/credential committees require an explanantion if you spent more than four years in medical school.

Agreed.

Taking more than four years to graduate from med school (without pursuing a dual-degree program like an MD/MPH, MD/MBA, etc.) is a red flag. Not worth it, IMHO.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

Agreed.

Taking more than four years to graduate from med school (without pursuing a dual-degree program like an MD/MPH, MD/MBA, etc.) is a red flag. Not worth it, IMHO.

I'll make my point again just to play devil's adovate.


I'm a resident at an Ivy and we have a fair amount (maybe 15%?) of our students who "split" and graduate in 5 years. I am told it gives them more elective time, more vacation, and a chance to get buffed up for a competitive speciality by doing some research, etc. It hasn't seemed to hurt their match outcome.

This is surprising to me b/c I would have assumed it would be looked upon unfavorably too. Just another view

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'll make me point again just to play devil's adovate.


I'm a resident at an Ivy and we have a fair amount (maybe 15%?) of our students who "split" and graduate in 5 years. I am told it gives them more elective time, more vacation, and a chance to get buffed up for a competitive speciality by doing some research, etc. It hasn't seemed to hurt their match outcome.

This is surprising to me b/c I would have assumed it would be looked upon unfavorably too. Just another view

THAT is probably the difference. Your students may already have some of a leg up on the residency match process because of either school name or caliber of their application. Taking an extra year from Podunk Medical school is probably not looked favorably on as it would be from an Ivy where alternative tracks are fairly common.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

THAT is probably the difference. Your students may already have some of a leg up on the residency match process because of either school name or caliber of their application. Taking an extra year from Podunk Medical school is probably not looked favorably on as it would be from an Ivy where alternative tracks are fairly common.

Good point.

I went to Podunk Medical School and this would have seemed a huge red flag for us. I would imagine the Ivy kids are more accomplished and generally have better board scores, etc.

 

[fishrmelife]

Just to be completely clear, I would graduate in 4 years. After graduating, I would spend one year obtaining an MPH degree and doing research. In the fall after graduating med school, I would apply to the match.

Someone brought up the point that this puts you in a "non-US Senior" pool which is bad. I asked the assistant to our dean, and she said it would not hurt me as long as I do something to further my academic standing. I will let yall know if the dean says something different.

A lot of people graduate from Baylor College of Medicine (not an ivy, but a good school) and take 5 years. They complete an MPH or do research between their 2nd-3rd or 3rd-4th years. I've never heard of this doing anything but helping their eventual match. My situation is a little different, as described above.

Thanks yall

 

[Winged Scapula]

What's the deal-io if you graduate in terms of loan repayment? Are you allowed to defer if you are not in residency?

 

[fishrmelife]

What's the deal-io if you graduate in terms of loan repayment? Are you allowed to defer if you are not in residency?

Not sure. My understanding is you can continue to defer student loans as long as you are a student. Doing an MPH with loans would then allow me to defer them. Oh, joy.

 

[PhakeDoc]

....

 

[fishrmelife]

Well, Phakedoc, the consensus I've gotten is "it won't hurt you." I've yet to hear that it will make you more competitive.

Basically, the PD's are going to want to know what you did with your year off; did you do something productive acadmically, or whatever. If you can sell them on it, it could help your application. I just haven't heard it will make a dramatic improvement in your chances.

Let me know what you find out.

 

[scala]

I would emphasize in the application somehow (perhaps in the personal statement) that you decided to postpone the match because you were passionate about obtaining an MPH at this point.

The only problem with your plan is that some program directors might assume that you are doing the MPH now because you didn't match. Again I would just make sure that they have no doubts about you not entering the match this year.

 

[Blade28]

THAT is probably the difference. Your students may already have some of a leg up on the residency match process because of either school name or caliber of their application. Taking an extra year from Podunk Medical school is probably not looked favorably on as it would be from an Ivy where alternative tracks are fairly common.

Great point.

 

[roja]

I don't think it matters as much WHAT school you are from but WHAT you are doing with the year. Getting an MPH? good. Dancing around the beach? not so great.

ERAS will ask for your delay. Programs will ask for the delay. Have an answer and you will be set.

Programs like people who do research= fellowships, prestige, etc.

Explain your year and you will be fine. I

(This assumes you are doing an MPH because you love it, have an interest and can explain that interest in interviews)

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I'll add my two cents... I'm at an Ivy (Columbia) and I would estimate between 30 and 40% of the class takes a year off. Generally this is between third and fourth year and either research, an MPH, an MBA (extremely common! This is New York, after all, and the dazzle of Wall Street is hard for some to resist) or some sort of overseas fellowship. A few take 2 years off. And a few go ahead and graduate but delay the match.

Word on the street is that pretty much everyone who takes a year off has their application enhanced by it to some degree. In some fields (derm, neurosx) it's a necessity, in others, just a favorably viewed well-rounding thing.

Personally, I'm undecided as to what specialty I'm going to pursue. I've set up the first few months of 4th year exploring a couple, but if I haven't decided by September I'm not entering the match. I have a few job options in New York-based global health work and would happily do that for a year before going into the match. I have yet to hear that this would be viewed negatively. Many of my classmates who had "past lives" will choose to do this; some will go to consulting, etc for a year or two but return to match later on. Of course, many will simply pursue alternative careers and never train in clinical medicine.

Bottom line, things aren't as ironclad as those who invoke sdn mantras might assume. It really does depend on your individual application.

 

[zoondel]

I wish there'd been a thread like this a few year ago . . . I'll just throw my experience into the ring. It jives with many of the comments above.

I'm an MD from a state school with a pretty good rep in the Northeast. I took a year between 2nd and 3rd to pursue religious studies. I spent a good deal of that time (and since) studying the interface between my religion (Judaism) and medicine. I also decided to become a rabbi.

I graduated in 2007, and decided to spend two more years studying toward my rabbinical degree.

I will be applying for the NRMP Match this fall, for a spot in '09.
According to my advisors and asst. dean, while these years will require explaining, the explanation is a good one - I'll have a degree and a transcript from a well-known rabbinical school, and I'll certainly have what to say on interviews.

I think that pursuing "alternate tracks" is something that should be on the lips of any mentor, advisor, dean of students who comes across a student who, late in the game, is struggling with a specialty decision. There's no substitute for life experience to give you some perspective.

My advice to the OP would be to take the time and use it wisely!

Good luck!

 

[anonymousEM]

to the poster considering an MPH year at Hopkins. Certainly, if you are really interested in an MPH, one from Hopkins would be great. You'd have the opportunity to solidify some great professional contacts as well. I agree, though, that if you are just trying to do an MPH to "make yourself more competitive" it will be a less-productive year than you are hoping.