With my background could I apply as "economically disadvantaged?"

[mighalg]

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Hey guys, I'm going to go into a lot of personal detail to elucidate my case to its fullest extent. First, to make it clear, for the purposes of things such as the FAFSA my family makes ~$70,000.

However, my situation is more complicated than just the number on my stepfather's tax return. I was born in Poland right after the collapse of communism. My parents divorced shortly after I was born and I've never actually seen my biological father. I lived with my mother until age 5, at which point she left to the United States and from then until I was 10 I lived with my grandparents. During the 5 years my mother was in the US she married my current stepfather, who himself came to the US from Mexico as a farm worker in the 80's and got naturalized thanks to Reagan's amnesty. He was able to get me over to the US, and I arrived here when I was 10.

From then on, however, my family situation was extremely unstable and not conducive to having great educational experiences, let's just say. I lived in a decent neighborhood and went to a decent school, but due to the family situation I had to basically fend for myself. As soon as I turned 15 and entered high school I had to get a part time job just to pay for my own food, textbooks, and dental care (upon which I spent thousands as a high school student).

I did fairly well in high school grade wise and rocked the ACTs and SATs (I was a national merit scholar) but had to go to a fairly crappy state school afterwards because I had to literally pay the entire tuition out of pocket. I was basically screwed by the fact that on paper, my stepfather made too much money for financial aid, but I received absolutely zip money from my family. My first two years of college were torturous, in that I had to commute to school, then commute to work, and then commute back to my house, leaving absolutely zero time for studying. I'd say I spent 60 hrs/week on working + commuting during these first two years, which completely screwed up my GPA. From my junior year onwards I was able to find a job close to campus and move out of my parents house, which made for a huge improvement in my ability to focus on schoolwork. Eventually I ended up spending 6 years in undergrad (I just graduated), the last 4 trying to clean up the GPA mess from the first 2 enough to have a chance at med school. Just to make it clear, although the first 2 years were the hardest, I worked an average of around 35 hrs/week during the entire 6 years I was in undergrad, not by choice but out of necessity.

Also, because of the time i had to spend fighting to keep myself financially afloat, I was unable to focus too much energy on volunteering or other out of class activities. So eventually, this situation left me with a 3.3 cumulative GPA, 3.1 BCMP GPA, and a 38 MCAT. Being a white male, I know those stats give me a very low shot at getting into an MD school. I believe if I were to qualify as an economically disadvantaged student, those chances would go up. So, the question is, do you guys think I qualify, given that on paper, my family is not economically disadvantaged?

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Hey guys, I'm going to go into a lot of personal detail to elucidate my case to its fullest extent. First, to make it clear, for the purposes of things such as the FAFSA my family makes ~$70,000.

However, my situation is more complicated than just the number on my stepfather's tax return. I was born in Poland right after the collapse of communism. My parents divorced shortly after I was born and I've never actually seen my biological father. I lived with my mother until age 5, at which point she left to the United States and from then until I was 10 I lived with my grandparents. During the 5 years my mother was in the US she married my current stepfather, who himself came to the US from Mexico as a farm worker in the 80's and got naturalized thanks to Reagan's amnesty. He was able to get me over to the US, and I arrived here when I was 10.

From then on, however, my family situation was extremely unstable and not conducive to having great educational experiences, let's just say. I lived in a decent neighborhood and went to a decent school, but due to the family situation I had to basically fend for myself. As soon as I turned 15 and entered high school I had to get a part time job just to pay for my own food, textbooks, and dental care (upon which I spent thousands as a high school student).

I did fairly well in high school grade wise and rocked the ACTs and SATs (I was a national merit scholar) but had to go to a fairly crappy state school afterwards because I had to literally pay the entire tuition out of pocket. I was basically screwed by the fact that on paper, my stepfather made too much money for financial aid, but I received absolutely zip money from my family. My first two years of college were torturous, in that I had to commute to school, then commute to work, and then commute back to my house, leaving absolutely zero time for studying. I'd say I spent 60 hrs/week on working + commuting during these first two years, which completely screwed up my GPA. From my junior year onwards I was able to find a job close to campus and move out of my parents house, which made for a huge improvement in my ability to focus on schoolwork. Eventually I ended up spending 6 years in undergrad (I just graduated), the last 4 trying to clean up the GPA mess from the first 2 enough to have a chance at med school. Just to make it clear, although the first 2 years were the hardest, I worked an average of around 35 hrs/week during the entire 6 years I was in undergrad, not by choice but out of necessity.

Also, because of the time i had to spend fighting to keep myself financially afloat, I was unable to focus too much energy on volunteering or other out of class activities. So eventually, this situation left me with a 3.3 cumulative GPA, 3.1 BCMP GPA, and a 38 MCAT. Being a white male, I know those stats give me a very low shot at getting into an MD school. I believe if I were to qualify as an economically disadvantaged student, those chances would go up. So, the question is, do you guys think I qualify, given that on paper, my family is not economically disadvantaged?

If you apply DO with those stats you will certainly get in. And I don't believe you are considered disadvantaged, since they look at what is on the paper.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Disadvantaged status is self-reported, so if you identify as disadvantaged feel free to share your explanation. Whether that will pass with adcoms is anyone's guess. Your explanation is convincing, but that $70k income does a pretty good job rebutting your argument, regardless of your experience.

That is kind of what I was thinking.

 

[Aerus]

By all means do it. You sound like you went through a lot. The 70k your stepfather makes does not do justice to show what you went through, so you will have to explain.

 

[235788]

family income >>> experiences

 

[mighalg]

Thanks for the input guys. I know the $70,000 would tend to make people laugh at my claims to be disadvantaged, but I cannot tell you how I wish it was $10,000, haha. Then at least I'd have gotten financial aid like every other "officially" disadvantaged student! I just hope that the adcoms would be willing to understand the logic of my situation, which in many respects was worse than that of people whose families make very little money. I can definitely document my claims to have to work to support myself, as I have tax returns stretching all the way back to when I was 15 and something like 6+ jobs worked during college alone, many hours a week.

Also, do adcoms typically take into account difficult family situations? I would say I definitely had to deal with one, in ways other than just having to support myself financially through high school and college.

 

[LizzyM]

The work you did in college should go in the experience section of the application. You will also show that you paid 100% of your expenses in college (there is a section where you show percentage of college expenses from various sources).

Your place of birth goes on the application and the names of your mother, and stepfather as wel as, if you wish, your father (with "Unknown" in response to the items about him such as where he lives and his occupation).

There is a place on the application for the name of your high school and if you graduated from a good HS (and with google it is easy to look it up), your claim of disadvantage may seem bogus.

So, even without self-identifying as "disadvantaged", much of your story will be out there and paints a picture of someone who has worked hard for what he has accomplished. With some luck, you may also get letters of recommendation that highlight your struggles in school due to financial hardship.

Not every school gives an advantage to an applicat with a poor gpa and "disadvantaged" label.

Claiming to be disadvantaged despite a high family income can be offensive to med admissions and cause a backlash but given your gpa, I would worry about it too much.

I agree that DO rather than MD may be the way to go as they may be more forgiving of the gpa.

 

[gree]

Lizzy, for a scholarship that is based on both need and (high) merit, how do you allocate the percentages?

 

[LizzyM]

Lizzy, for a scholarship that is based on both need and (high) merit, how do you allocate the percentages?

Not my job. I just pick 'em and the Dean and the financial aid wizards handle the rest.

 

[mighalg]

I agree that DO rather than MD may be the way to go as they may be more forgiving of the gpa.

^^I hope this doesn't mean there is no hope for me for MD. If so, I wasted at least 1 and maybe 2 extra years in undergrad for nothing, I'm pretty sure I could have gotten into D.O. at the end of my 5th year of undergrad and maybe at the end of my 4th. For DO purposes my science GPA is 3.3 and overall is 3.35, which with a 38MCAT is probably a shoo-in. I'd really rather avoid the D.O. route, I'm pretty set on going into one of the more selective specialties and with all the new D.O. schools popping up everywhere I'd hate to have spent 11 years total of post H.S. education/waiting only to get stuck with doing something I have no interest in. That may sound a bit harsh/arrogant but it's the truth, I specifically stayed an extra 2 years in undergrad just for a shot at going to an MD school.

 

[mighalg]

Currently my main interest is ortho, probably one of the least D.O. friendly residencies. EM is second, and I hear it's getting more competitive by the year.

Even aside from residency choice, the allopathic focus on research greatly appeals to me. I could definitely see myself wanting to get involved in a research/academic type setting depending on which specialty I end up going into, and I just don't feel like that world would be fully open to me were I to be a D.O. and not an MD.

 

[Frazier]

When I think financially disadvantaged, I think "received gov assistance"... or 8 people living off a household income of 40k.

 

[Shmemifly]

I have no facts for you, but If I were on an adcom and saw a high-ish family income like that or a private high school I would be pretty annoyed by any applicant who applied as disadvantaged. That status should be for truly unusual cases like "spent entire childhood moving from home to home in poor/abusive foster care" -- not "my middle-class upbringing was harder than my peers because my parents were strict and i had to pay for myself." It suggests to me a sense of privilege. A lot of people pay their own way through college.

Also, as a national merit scholar you shouldn't have had to pay almost any tuition to go to state school unless you did something wrong. I was offered a decent scholarship to my designated private school, and all of my state schools gave me enough money to cover everything + living expenses. I guess maybe it has changed?

 

[235788]

I agree that DO rather than MD may be the way to go as they may be more forgiving of the gpa.

^^I hope this doesn't mean there is no hope for me for MD. If so, I wasted at least 1 and maybe 2 extra years in undergrad for nothing, I'm pretty sure I could have gotten into D.O. at the end of my 5th year of undergrad and maybe at the end of my 4th. For DO purposes my science GPA is 3.3 and overall is 3.35, which with a 38MCAT is probably a shoo-in. I'd really rather avoid the D.O. route, I'm pretty set on going into one of the more selective specialties and with all the new D.O. schools popping up everywhere I'd hate to have spent 11 years total of post H.S. education/waiting only to get stuck with doing something I have no interest in. That may sound a bit harsh/arrogant but it's the truth, I specifically stayed an extra 2 years in undergrad just for a shot at going to an MD school.

you sound like a perfect SMP candidate

 

[235788]

EM is very DO friendly, but fair enough on all other points. I'm glad you've thought it out. 🙂

EM is getting much more competitive for both MD and DOs, so it will be hard to forecast how DOs will fare in acgme EM residencies when our time comes to apply

 

[mighalg]

<b>I have no facts for you, but If I were on an adcom and saw a high-ish family income like that or a private high school I would be pretty annoyed by any applicant who applied as disadvantaged. That status should be for truly unusual cases like "spent entire childhood moving from home to home in poor/abusive foster care" -- not "my middle-class upbringing was harder than my peers because my parents were strict and i had to pay for myself." It suggests to me a sense of privilege. A lot of people pay their own way through college.</b>

Fair points, all. My hope is that I can convince the adcoms not to be pissed. I grew up in the same neighborhood and went to the same schools as a whole bunch of Section 8 kids, except that unlike those kids I had to overcome language barriers, and also unlike them I had to work and pay for my school lunches rather than get them given to me free of charge by the government. Whatever familial difficulties these "officially disadvantaged" kids faced due to growing up in dysfunctional homes I faced as well, just take my word for it as there is really no need for me to get into detail here. Finally, in college, I knew "disadvantaged" kids who drove around in their own cars, had their entire tuition covered by the government and received a sizable stipend for discretionary spending to boot, all the while I walked my dumb privileged butt off for 6 miles a day to and from the local metra station come rain, shine, or snow for the opportunity to work 40hrs/week so I could cover the $6000 tuition bill that would come due every few months.

Will the adcoms buy it? I don't know and frankly it won't make me weep with regret if they don't. I may not have been as disadvantaged as some, but I know what I went through and I'm convinced I had to overcome more than the majority of those who can claim to have been disadvantaged by the virtue of the numbers in their parents' tax return. My stepfather may have made $70,000 a year but the only thing I ever derived from that money was a big fat '0' on my financial aid award letter. Tell me, what's better: have your parents make $30,000 a year and try to help you with every little penny they have to spare in addition to receiving $15,000 in gov. assistance a year for your education, or having your parents make $70,000 and be completely indifferent to your fate while also receiving nothing from the government?

Sorry for the overlong response, had to vent. lol.

Edit:
When I think financially disadvantaged, I think "received gov assistance"...

^^On the contrary, from where I'm standing, receiving assistance, be it from parents or yes the government means you were advantaged, not disadvantaged! It's SOBs like me who received no assistance from anyone that are the disadvantaged ones!

 

[Yonko Shanks]

lol 70k= disadvantaged..

I make 12k a year..

 

[mighalg]

^^Good for you. I made around 20k a year throughout undergrad at close to minimum wage, and that's why my GPA suffered. Believe me, I never came close to making $70,000, so I don't see what your point is.

 

[Yonko Shanks]

^^Good for you. I made around 20k a year throughout undergrad at close to minimum wage, and that's why my GPA suffered. Believe me, I never came close to making $70,000, so I don't see what your point is.

disadvantaged means from age 0-18. It doesn't apply when you are in college btw.

 

[mighalg]

If that's the case then between 0-10 I was at <$5000, there you go, that's more than half the time period in question! I really hope the adcoms are not as bullheaded as you.

 

[Frazier]

If that's the case then between 0-10 I was at <$5000, there you go, that's more than half the time period in question! I really hope the adcoms are not as bullheaded as you.

Are you serious?

I don't know anyone between the ages 0-10, that have a job. period. Why are you complaining that you made under $5000 at that age? Complaining about being normal?

Working to put yourself through college doesn't make you "disadvantaged" either, I know boatloads of students that worked long hours during undergrad, some over 30 hours/week (such as myself)-- oh and not including "commuting" --and maintained 4.0's.

As mentioned earlier, it is especially moot since the disadvantaged box is in regards to one's childhood.

It wouldn't have ever crossed my mind to check the disadvantaged box. Thanks, OP, I will now steal this advantage from you.

PS: nice mcat score... in fact, with such a score, an adcom will prob figure that you think that you can "outsmart" the system. it might backfire.

 

[mighalg]

Are you serious?

I don't know anyone between the ages 0-10, that have a job. period. Why are you complaining that you made under $5000 at that age? Complaining about being normal?

Working to put yourself through college doesn't make you "disadvantaged" either, I know boatloads of students that worked long hours during undergrad, some over 30 hours/week (such as myself)-- oh and not including "commuting" --and maintained 4.0's.

As mentioned earlier, it is especially moot since the disadvantaged box is in regards to one's childhood.

It wouldn't have ever crossed my mind to check the disadvantaged box. Thanks, OP, I will now steal this advantage from you.

PS: nice mcat score... in fact, with such a score, an adcom will prob figure that you think that you can "outsmart" the system. it might backfire.

Ya I'm serious. I'm not sure if you're serious though. I'm not sure if you followed my exchange with Yanko, but if you had then it should be abundantly clear that in the beginning, I was talking about my wages during college (the 20K). Then, Yanko maintained that what matters is not how much I made during college but how much money I was associated with between 0-18, which obviously suggests he's talking about family income. I think anyone with half a brain could then deduce that my reply in which I mentioned the the $5000 was about how much money my family-NOT me personally-made while I was between the ages of 0-10.

BTW, in case you missed it, the bulk of my original post (you know, the part about my life from age 0-18) was not about having to pay my way through college. The college part was just a continuation of a pattern that began the day I was born. And since I will be able to explain in detail to the adcoms my reasoning for selecting disadvantaged, they may feel that they disagree with me but I doubt the they will feel I'm trying to "outsmart" them since the logic will be right there for them to see. By all means you can use this "trick" if you feel it applies to your case.

 

[Yonko Shanks]

If that's the case then between 0-10 I was at <$5000, there you go, that's more than half the time period in question! I really hope the adcoms are not as bullheaded as you.

not trying to be bullheaded. I was just giving you a heads up that it might not been seen in the way you see it. With your scores you can get in without checking the box.

 

[iololiol]

If you want to qualify as a disadvantaged applicant, first make sure you know for sure how you will put up against what I believe to be a typical disadvantaged applicant. From my knowledge, these applicants are usually URM or have had some challenges in their lives that have made them educationally disadvantaged. Usually due to family low income or a family that is either broken up and neither of the parents finished high school. Also students who went to inner city schools or rural schools growing up, usually a lower standard of education. I work with kids in chicago public schools and these students are at a disadvantage. Most of their parents are out of work or make very little to support their kids. They also go to a school with very little ambition and the kids are lucky to leave high school with a higher than 18 ACT score. You say you achieved such high scores in ACT, SAT and MCAT which means you most likely had a pretty good education growing up and maybe explore these areas a little more, because they will come up when your in front of an adcom. But your experiences through high school working and supporting yourself are valid reasons for disadvantage. However, be careful and speak to students who have claimed disadvantaged and gotten into MD medical schools and see how your stories compare.

On the numbers side of things, realize that this is still important. Most of these kids grew up in families with tax forms that say 0$ income and lived off of welfare checks. I am only saying this because I know many disadvantaged individuals, and your story although convincing is merely an outlier of the average disadvantaged student.

 

[Starlightembers]

...

Sorry for the overlong response, had to vent. lol.

Edit:
When I think financially disadvantaged, I think "received gov assistance"...

^^On the contrary, from where I'm standing, receiving assistance, be it from parents or yes the government means you were advantaged, not disadvantaged! It's SOBs like me who received no assistance from anyone that are the disadvantaged ones!

You are now being offensive and invalidating to those "advantaged" students on welfare; you are also proving your ignorance and, quite frankly, I can only see statements such as these [you are making] working against you as you try to convince the admissions committees of your disadvantaged status. You do not help yourself when, in an attempt to convince others of what you have been through, you simultaneously discredit the struggles of others.

Those who depend on welfare to survive are not at an advantage. They are fortunate that such programs exist and, as someone who has been on some form of government assistance since my [now deceased] mother left my violent, crack-addicted father, I have never taken for granted that assistance and realize that, in many ways, I have been very lucky for the opportunities that I have been given. That said, though I cannot speak for others who rely on welfare, I can tell you that it has never and does not make my life simple, care-free or stable. There were still concerns about housing (the reason we had a place to stay was because our landlord was giving and, during times where we were waiting on assistance -- you know there are lengthy waiting lists, right? -- or otherwise did not have money, allowed us to delay payments), food, heat and other necessities. School-wise, though my school was far from being the worst, it was far from being the best and I ended up dropping out at the age of 16 to start college early as I did not feel I could receive a semi-solid education there. Now that my mom has passed, as I am still an [emancipated] minor, work is difficult to come by (and I have tried) and I am dependent on a combination of government aid and survivor benefits, which is barely enough to afford basic necessities (in fact, there have been times it has not been enough and I have been left on friends' couches). Furthermore, even with a Pell Grant and state-school tuition, I will not have enough to cover all school costs and am dependent on federal loans to cover the bare minimum of educational costs. I can assure you, I am not out driving a car around campus, nor am I living large on the government's dollar. I am blessed in many ways and, at the end of the day, am deeply grateful for where I am, as so many have not been had the opportunities that I have; however, being so poor that I need to rely on benefits is not one of those ways in which I was/am lucky.

That said, it is obvious that you have been through quite a bit and, through the apathy of your parents, have been forced to struggle for some time now. You have endured financial hardship -- I do not doubt that -- and I hope that, through your application process, you are able to find an understanding admissions committee. Ultimately, with the way the application is structured, to check "disadvantaged" or not is left up to the applicant. As I do not believe you meet the technical criteria, though, I am not sure if that is the best way to go about this; however, if you feel that is your best/only chance to explain your situation, you have that right. If I were you, however, I would be careful not to do what you have done in this thread, which is attempt to convince others that what you have been through was significant by making what others have been through seem insignificant. I sympathize with you as, in the final years of my mom's life, she added another job that raised her income too high to qualify for Medicaid, while still being too low to afford needed medication, so I have seen the impact that assumed advantage can have on a person; however, invalidating someone else's story is not an OK thing to do. You cannot speak to an experience you have not had.

I wish you luck. Truly.

Star

 

[LizzyM]

the $5000 was about how much money my family-NOT me personally-made while I was between the ages of 0-10. .

But that was Poland in the early '90s where $5000 went further than it would have in the US. It is very hard to claim "disadvantage" in your home country if you had the good fortune (and financial means) to emigrate.

If in doubt, let the adcom piece the story together from the other information on your application. Checking the box can hurt or help depending on an adcom's point of view. Why provide what might be used as ammunition?

 

[DinoSaysRawr]

The work you did in college should go in the experience section of the application. You will also show that you paid 100% of your expenses in college (there is a section where you show percentage of college expenses from various sources).

Your place of birth goes on the application and the names of your mother, and stepfather as wel as, if you wish, your father (with "Unknown" in response to the items about him such as where he lives and his occupation).

There is a place on the application for the name of your high school and if you graduated from a good HS (and with google it is easy to look it up), your claim of disadvantage may seem bogus.

So, even without self-identifying as "disadvantaged", much of your story will be out there and paints a picture of someone who has worked hard for what he has accomplished. With some luck, you may also get letters of recommendation that highlight your struggles in school due to financial hardship.

Not every school gives an advantage to an applicat with a poor gpa and "disadvantaged" label.

Claiming to be disadvantaged despite a high family income can be offensive to med admissions and cause a backlash but given your gpa, I would worry about it too much.

I agree that DO rather than MD may be the way to go as they may be more forgiving of the gpa.

Is it looked down upon if we are paying for our own education through loans and light work (i.e. school run programs) for small stipends? I technically have never had a "real job." 😳

 

[mirimonster]

Ya I'm serious. I'm not sure if you're serious though. I'm not sure if you followed my exchange with Yanko, but if you had then it should be abundantly clear that in the beginning, I was talking about my wages during college (the 20K). Then, Yanko maintained that what matters is not how much I made during college but how much money I was associated with between 0-18, which obviously suggests he's talking about family income. I think anyone with half a brain could then deduce that my reply in which I mentioned the the $5000 was about how much money my family-NOT me personally-made while I was between the ages of 0-10.

U mad bro?

No, but seriously, the bolded part means you probably qualify for disadvantaged status. But please please please in your explanation do not make any comments about how those on government assistance had an advantage over you. It makes you sound entitled, unempathetic and completely out of touch with social realities. Not qualities that adcoms are looking for, regardless of how you feel about it. Keep it to your own story, not how you were jealous of all those people who are so lucky living in their section 8 housing with their food stamps. And don't use the line that you wish your parents made $10,000 instead of $70,000.

 

[mighalg]

Thanks for all the feedback. I never meant to suggest that those on welfare are somehow not disadvantaged or that receiving government assistance is something people dream about. I was just getting frustrated by some who tried to suggest there is no way I could have possibly faced any hardships for the sole reason that my stepfather made $70000, as if that lone fact somehow makes all the other aspects of my life immediately become irrelevant and trivial. As I mentioned before, I grew up in a neighborhood where ~60 of the ~70 kids on my HS bus stop came from the Chicago projects and moved into section 8 housing. I just checked my middle school's (since its mostly kids from my neighborhood unlike the HS which takes kids from all over) website and 72% of the students qualify for free&reduced price lunches. I have experienced and appreciate that many of those kids went through difficulties, my only point is that I went though many of the same ones. Are there people who went through more than I did? Of course! Are there people who had to overcome less yet would qualify for "disadvantaged status?" I think so.

But that was Poland in the early '90s where $5000 went further than it would have in the US. It is very hard to claim "disadvantage" in your home country if you had the good fortune (and financial means) to emigrate.

If in doubt, let the adcom piece the story together from the other information on your application. Checking the box can hurt or help depending on an adcom's point of view. Why provide what might be used as ammunition?

I was able to immigrate not because my family is wealthy but because my mom basically "abandoned" me for five years while I was between 5-10 and I grew up with my grandparents. Living off of my grandfather's meager pension, with no parents, in early 90's eastern Europe is not what I would call good fortune.

As to the other part, I agree that the adcom's point of view is what will make the difference and thus there is a high degree of risk. However, with my GPA, I'd rather take the risk that during interviews the adcoms will not "buy" it than the risk I will get no interviews at all. If my GPA was higher I wouldn't put disadvantaged-even though I would still feel I was.

But please please please in your explanation do not make any comments about how those on government assistance had an advantage over you. It makes you sound entitled, unempathetic and completely out of touch with social realities. Not qualities that adcoms are looking for, regardless of how you feel about it. Keep it to your own story, not how you were jealous of all those people who are so lucky living in their section 8 housing with their food stamps. And don't use the line that you wish your parents made $10,000 instead of $70,000

Of course. What one types in the midst of a heated exchange on an internet forum is not what one says to a medical school admissions committee. Even what I wrote here is more extreme than what my full, nuanced worldview really is, but I don't want to write paged upon pages to put everything into a proper context.

 

[Shmemifly]

I would reject you out of hand. That will happen at a decent number of institutions, they are professionals at this.

 

[mirimonster]

Of course. What one types in the midst of a heated exchange on an internet forum is not what one says to a medical school admissions committee.

You'd be surprised

 

[Heavens Cloud]

Thanks for all the feedback. I never meant to suggest that those on welfare are somehow not disadvantaged or that receiving government assistance is something people dream about. I was just getting frustrated by some who tried to suggest there is no way I could have possibly faced any hardships for the sole reason that my stepfather made $70000, as if that lone fact somehow makes all the other aspects of my life immediately become irrelevant and trivial. As I mentioned before, I grew up in a neighborhood where ~60 of the ~70 kids on my HS bus stop came from the Chicago projects and moved into section 8 housing. I just checked my middle school's (since its mostly kids from my neighborhood unlike the HS which takes kids from all over) website and 72% of the students qualify for free&reduced price lunches. I have experienced and appreciate that many of those kids went through difficulties, my only point is that I went though many of the same ones. Are there people who went through more than I did? Of course! Are there people who had to overcome less yet would qualify for "disadvantaged status?" I think so.

ITT: People at my middle school needed reduced price lunches, so I am disadvantaged.

 

[mighalg]

ITT: People at my middle school needed reduced price lunches, so I am disadvantaged.

Good luck on the verbal when you're taking the MCAT if you think the purpose of me highlighting that many of my classmates were on welfare was to prove I am disadvantaged. I thought it was quite clear I included it to underline that I have been exposed to people with low incomes and appreciate the difficulties they go through. I don't know how much of what I wrote you actually read, but if you read it all and drew the conclusion that my basis for claiming to be disadvantaged boils down to coming from a school with free lunches then I wish you well on the MCAT, I really do.

I would reject you out of hand. That will happen at a decent number of institutions, they are professionals at this.

I'm sure you're right about you personally rejecting me out of hand as well as many institutions doing the same, but please explain what that has to do with professionalism.

Dang, getting a lot of hate for this thread, it's almost like I claimed to have been disadvantaged because my daddy bought me a red beemer when I requested black, or something.

 

[jHustle]

Think about it man. If you are getting this many negative responses toward your situation. Imagine when adcoms are reading this and are comparing you to the other 1000s of applicants with "disadvantaged statuses". How do you think you will compare, honestly? I feel that when it comes to applying as disadvantaged, there are 2 types of people that ask. Those that want to, in a sense, brag about their hard upbringing, or those that know they aren't disadvantaged but try really hard to justify it anyway. In my opinion, for those that really are disadvantaged, you just know...(no need to ask if you qualify).

 

[Shmemifly]

I would reject you out of hand. That will happen at a decent number of institutions, they are professionals at this.

I'm sure you're right about you personally rejecting me out of hand as well as many institutions doing the same, but please explain what that has to do with professionalism.

Nothing to do with professionalism - i said that they are professionals. As in they do this as a career, and are very, very good at distinguishing among students. And they are cynical. Adcoms see thousands of applicants every year, and countless disadvantaged applicants. You will be held in direct comparison to those and you will look self-serving. I agree with the above poster, they will be experts at sorting out the trying-to-get-an-advantage applicants from the indisputably disadvantaged. You can't phrase this better on your application/at interviews and think you'll fool them into feeling warm fuzzies instead of the vitriol you have recieved here. If this isn't a warning to you, you've got bigger trouble ahead.

 

[mighalg]

As in they do this as a career, and are very, very good at distinguishing among students. And they are cynical. Adcoms see thousands of applicants every year, and countless disadvantaged applicants.

Exactly, and that's why I have hope they will be better at telling who is disadvantaged than the haters in this thread, who seem capable only of recognizing that my my mother's second husband (a former illegal Mexican farm worker who now makes good money in a machine shop) made $70000, and nothing else.



It seems that for a lot of the haters here it boils down to the fact that at one point in my life, a man with the official title of "stepfather" happened to make $70,000 dollars a year and because of this no matter what else may have happened in my life, I will forevermore fall under the category of "privileged." lol. Cool, I'm def not looking for your approval, I just wanted to see what the reaction would be. I def believe I'm disadvantaged, and with my science GPA what it is, there is no downside for me to apply with disadvantaged status, since I'll certainly get no love applying as a vanilla white male with a 3.1. If it works it works, and if it doesn't work the outcome will be the same as if I had never claimed it: rejected. I'll definitely apply to CCOM as well, and if I have to go DO so be it. I was able to get a 3.98 in 42 credit hours in my final year of undergrad while working 2 jobs and prepping my way for a 38 MCAT. If it's gotta be DO I just have to top the class, demolish the boards, and get the specialty that I want. It's probably the easiest thing I'd have done in a while, since I've been, you know, pretty disadvantaged lately. lol

 

[Aerus]

Exactly, and that's why I have hope they will be better at telling who is disadvantaged than the haters in this thread, who seem capable only of recognizing that my my mother's second husband (a former illegal Mexican farm worker who now makes good money in a machine shop) made $70000, and nothing else.



It seems that for a lot of the haters here it boils down to the fact that at one point in my life, a man with the official title of "stepfather" happened to make $70,000 dollars a year and because of this no matter what else may have happened in my life, I will forevermore fall under the category of "privileged." lol. Cool, I'm def not looking for your approval, I just wanted to see what the reaction would be. I def believe I'm disadvantaged, and with my science GPA what it is, there is no downside for me to apply with disadvantaged status, since I'll certainly get no love applying as a vanilla white male with a 3.1. If it works it works, and if it doesn't work the outcome will be the same as if I had never claimed it: rejected. I'll definitely apply to CCOM as well, and if I have to go DO so be it. I was able to get a 3.98 in 42 credit hours in my final year of undergrad while working 2 jobs and prepping my way for a 38 MCAT. If it's gotta be DO I just have to top the class, demolish the boards, and get the specialty that I want. It's probably the easiest thing I'd have done in a while, since I've been, you know, pretty disadvantaged lately. lol

There are people who also identify themselves as disadvantaged but don't check the box. If you feel so strongly about this, as LizzyM said, there are places on your application that you could put this. Let the adcoms piece together the story!

 

[Tiki]

Why did you start this thread if you already knew you were going to put disadvantaged anyway? You are ignoring all of the good advice you are getting.

Here is a question for you: if your GPA was higher (3.8ish) would you have even thought about checking disadvantaged? Or are you solely putting it down to make up for your low GPA? Being disavantaged should not be GPA-dependent.

I commiserate with you on the working during college. My parents had four kids and made about 50,000 combined and I pretty much paid my way through highschool and college (every single expense, including rent to live in my parents house). I worked 40 hours a week and went to school full time. I didn't get squat in student loans/grants/scholarships because my parents "made too much money". I did not, and would not have, checked the disadvantaged box.

 

[mighalg]

There are people who also identify themselves as disadvantaged but don't check the box. If you feel so strongly about this, as LizzyM said, there are places on your application that you could put this. Let the adcoms piece together the story!

That is a good suggestion, the only thing I am afraid of is that with the sheer number of applications the adcoms have to look over each day, they may just see my 3.1 science and not waste the time to try to "piece together the story" unless I give them a clear indication that they should do so, ie check the box.

 

[Priti Dave]

Your MCAT is very good. To fix your GPA go for post bacc and you will get in M.D

 

[Priti Dave]

I am at community school and got C in Organic i . Should I forget about dream of medical and do something else.? One thing is community school other is this C. I have two B in cal one and two.
I am so much worried about this C. Should I retake at another school. I will complete all pre req on this community school and will take transfer. Which major work best if I want to be doctor so badly.?

 

[mighalg]

.
Here is a question for you: if your GPA was higher (3.8ish) would you have even thought about checking disadvantaged? Or are you solely putting it down to make up for your low GPA? Being disavantaged should not be GPA-dependent.

I commiserate with you on the working during college. My parents had four kids and made about 50,000 combined and I pretty much paid my way through highschool and college (every single expense, including rent to live in my parents house). I worked 40 hours a week and went to school full time. I didn't get squat in student loans/grants/scholarships because my parents "made too much money". I did not, and would not have, checked the disadvantaged box.

If my GPA was higher I would have thought of checking the box, but I almost certainly would not do it. That, again, is not to say that I developed this fantasy of being disadvantaged as a low GPA coping mechanism, or something. Simply, as I've found out in this thread and already suspected anyway, the stupid and irrelevant fact that my stepfather made $70,000 dollars may make me automatically disqualified for "disadvantaged" designation in the eyes of many people, not matter how disadvantaged I may have been in reality. With a 3.8 that risk would be too much to take, with a 3.1BCMP and 3.3 cumulative that risk is acceptable.

PS: for the final time, I'm NOT basing the bulk of my claim to have been disadvantaged on having to pay my way through college! How about this piece of trivia: for many years of my primary education I was living with a mother who took Prozac for diagnosed psychotic disorders, a stepfather who was hostile at best, and feeding myself on the weekends by hunting for spare change in my mom's car with which to buy 10 cent ramen noodles at Walmart. That doesn't even begin to cover the full awesomeness of my life before college.

 

[Priti Dave]

Did You lost GPA due to Organic chemisty? Take you retake and get GPA high? If your VR in MCAT is very high you should get in M.D wirh low GPA. If GPA is low due to organic will be hard to get in.

 

[LizzyM]

If my GPA was higher I would have thought of checking the box, but I almost certainly would not do it. That, again, is not to say that I developed this fantasy of being disadvantaged as a low GPA coping mechanism, or something. Simply, as I've found out in this thread and already suspected anyway, the stupid and irrelevant fact that my stepfather made $70,000 dollars may make me automatically disqualified for "disadvantaged" designation in the eyes of many people, not matter how disadvantaged I may have been in reality. With a 3.8 that risk would be too much to take, with a 3.1BCMP and 3.3 cumulative that risk is acceptable.

PS: for the final time, I'm NOT basing the bulk of my claim to have been disadvantaged on having to pay my way through college! How about this piece of trivia: for many years of my primary education I was living with a mother who took Prozac for diagnosed psychotic disorders, a stepfather who was hostile at best, and feeding myself on the weekends by hunting for spare change in my mom's car with which to buy 10 cent ramen noodles at Walmart. That doesn't even begin to cover the full awesomeness of my life before college.

OK, connect the dots for me. How did your childhood (ages 0-18) place you at a disadvantage when you reached young adulthood (18-24) as compared with your peer group in college? What did they have that you didn't have because of your up-bringing?

 

[Heavens Cloud]

Good luck on the verbal when you're taking the MCAT if you think the purpose of me highlighting that many of my classmates were on welfare was to prove I am disadvantaged. I thought it was quite clear I included it to underline that I have been exposed to people with low incomes and appreciate the difficulties they go through. I don't know how much of what I wrote you actually read, but if you read it all and drew the conclusion that my basis for claiming to be disadvantaged boils down to coming from a school with free lunches then I wish you well on the MCAT, I really do.

I apologize for extrapolating your incredibly difficult life experiences. By all means, please mark yourself as disadvantaged.

 

[mighalg]

OK, connect the dots for me. How did your childhood (ages 0-18) place you at a disadvantage when you reached young adulthood (18-24) as compared with your peer group in college? What did they have that you didn't have because of your up-bringing?

Thanks for the question, I can definitely see an adcom asking me these types of questions. To be honest, that's very hard to answer. What I mean by that is, let's say you had somebody who was "indisputably" disadvantaged: black, grew up in a broken home with a drug addicted mother and no father, gangs, welfare, etc. The whole shebang. If despite all these difficulties that individual managed to persevere by sheer discipline and intelligence and graduate high school with good grades and stellar test scores, then technically that individual would NOT be at a disadvantage compared to a middle class white male ONCE he had reached young adulthood. At the point he reached young adulthood, he would have all the same assets (grades, test scores, college admissions chances, etc) as his well off counterparts. Clearly, however, that kid was disadvantaged, and if his disadvantage did not show up at 18 years of age it was only because of his own determination and drive to succeed despite his obstacles. He could just as easily have given up hope on education, joined a gang, and went to prison as a result the difficulties he faced.

Where am I going with this? Basically, when I turned 18 I had good grades and good test scores, so technically I was not disadvantaged compared to my peers other than having to pay my way through college. But in a similar way to the hypothetical black kid above, the only reason I wasn't disadvantaged in other ways at that point was because I managed to overcome my obstacles.

PS: I'm not sure if that's what you meant by your question or if I completely went on a tangent.

 

[LizzyM]

The indisputablly disadvantaged students often got through high school on their smarts, and the laziness of their fellow students. Their high schools are often substandard with few, if any, honors or AP courses, and the student doesn't need to develop good work habits. They may have been raised by grandparents or foster parents, been involved briefly in gangs, or even ended up in juvenile detention for a period of time.

By the skin of their teeth, some of these students get into college. Many times, these are not the top tier schools. In some cases, they need remedial classes in English and Math before beginning real college classes. They are often not the smartest kids at that school and there is a struggle to keep up with their college peers.

Others enlist in the military and serve for 3-4 years before moving on to college.

Socially, many of these students are out of step with other students because they are out of their comfort zone and somewhat isolated. Often they have little financial support from home and are unable to take part in activities that other students take for granted such as being able to take part in activities that have an additional fee.

 

[chiddler]

I'd like to ask a question that is tangentially relevant to OP.

Is there an advantage or disadvantage for being financially disadvantaged? I called a med school near my home and they just told me not to lie about it...lol. I guess they thought I was trying to weasel in.

 

[LizzyM]

I'd like to ask a question that is tangentially relevant to OP.

Is there an advantage or disadvantage for being financially disadvantaged? I called a med school near my home and they just told me not to lie about it...lol. I guess they thought I was trying to weasel in.

Students who came from lower SES families do bring diversity to the class but they are also at higher risk of academic difficulty so it is a wash.

 

[Hemorrage]

wow OP you're getting a whole lot of hate on this thread and i feel bad for ya.

Anyway, personally i don't think you should check the disadvantaged box. Why? Well its clear that you've been through a ton of hard times throughout your life especially involving your college career and having to work, however, its for your own benefit to just keep that information separate on the application. You CAN get the "advantage" your looking for by proving you payed for most of your college costs while at the same time not checking the disadvantaged box. Adcoms care a lot about how many hours you worked during undergrad and therefore may attribute it as a reason for your "lower" GPA. The bright side of all of this is that you got a 38 MCAT and since MCAT scores are predictors of USMLE success- you have all of the academic credentials required to make your way through medical school. Personally if i were you i would apply this round to a broad range of 25-30 schools and i'm fairly certain you will get at least 1 MD acceptance.