With the avg dental school debt being 400k, please explain your strategy to conquering this enormous debt when the intrest atm is reaching 8%.

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Ali527 said:
Loll my mistake..P.A I mean.
You can drive a Truck if you want...I prefer to be a Doctor.

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I ain't driving a truck, not my type of life. I'm happy dentist-ing with no plans to leave. Just giving my two cents on OP's question
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FutureDoc2001 said:
Lets break it down quickly:
After graduation, you will probably find a job as an associate for 120k gross per year.
120k, after taxes is 80k that you have left.
the min payment on these types of loans are usually around 4k per month.
4 times 12 months is 48k
80k-48k= 32k
32k - (lets say 20k if you live very frugaly with no family to support gone for food, gas, utilities, rent, life)= 12k

So now your measly 12k in savings, over 2 years will get you 24k. The is no office that can be bought for that.


Another option is to open a business straight out of college.
So 400k of debt plus 500k for a cheap business will be around a million probably after you can actually get the place running.


Now imagine, a dentist who has a limited scope on how to run a business, which most dental students do, runs for about 2-3 years, burning through money. You close down.

YOU are left with a million in debt, and now have to work the rest of your life as a dental associate, chipping away at the debt you will never pay off.

Please think of this 🙂
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This is exactly my point, financially dentistry doesn't make sense at 400k+.

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Seriously, just type in 400k, at 8% interest. If you want to pay it off in 10 years, you are looking at paying approx. 60k a year just towards your student loans. Are you really going to save any significant amount of money in those 10 years, when you're paying 60k a year towards loans? If you graduate dental school at 26, this means you're 36 before you start truly building up your retirement portfolio at a significant rate.

Now, not only do you suffer in years 26-36 by paying off those massive student loans, but that also causes you to suffer later in life because you are behind on your savings.

Now suppose you invest 60k/ year starting age 26 into the stock market instead of spending that money towards student loans. Lets assume you just put it in an SP500 index fund. At approx 7% real return long term, you will have close to $6 million bucks by age 56! Now you can enjoy a luxurious retirement, or keep working because you love dentistry, not because you have to.

That's the power of not having to pay off a 400k student loan at 8% interest. It's a difference of literally millions of dollars by the time you're 50. I'll repeat it again for those in the back. Dentistry doesn't make sense financially at 400k+ debt.
 
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pubhealthdent said:
Accurate, but theres a lot of negatives about working corporate - especially Aspen
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Hmm from what I've read, corp the first few years would help build speed, and working as an associate wouldn't be favored because the owner will take all of the lucrative cases. If I'm at 400k debt, I'd work wherever I can that will pay the most
 
RYost234 said:
Hmm from what I've read, corp the first few years would help build speed, and working as an associate wouldn't be favored because the owner will take all of the lucrative cases. If I'm at 400k debt, I'd work wherever I can that will pay the most
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Just do your research if that's the route you're thinking of going. Not every corporate operates the same.
 
ToothJockey said:
My dentist is around 70 years old, easily worth 8 figures+, but he still practices because he enjoys dentistry. He is financially independent; he no longer practices dentistry because he has to pay the bills, he practices dentistry because it is a hobby to him. That's who I aspire to be one day. Being 400k+ in debt to start your career, what are the odds you will be practicing because you enjoy it, and not because you can't afford to retire?
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Net worth does not tell the whole story. Your dentist obviously did some smart financial investing. Probably graduated with very little debt. I do agree with you that new dentists graduating with 400K plus in DS debt are off to a net negative start as compared to your dentist.

My point here is that everyone's path to financial happiness will be different. Your dentist with a dentist salary must have been pretty lucky, no divorces, no larger medical bills, no daughter weddings to pay for, invested well, did not buy depreciating assets (porsche's, boats, beach condos, boobs for the wife, etc. etc.) to be worth 8 figures. I look back at my career and I probably should have done a better job of investing rather than buy the FUN stuff. But is your dentist's life successful? Depends on how you define success. You're 70 and you have 8 figures. Impressive. But you're 70 lol.

I can safely say that I've enjoyed many things in my life. Spent alot of money on fun stuff. Boats, cars, beach condos, vacations, etc. etc. My family and I have memories that are priceless. I want to live every moment of my life to the fullest.

Below is a picture of my daughter and I on a cool road trip with other R8's. This pic was taken while we were in motion. A priceless memory.




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FutureDoc2001 said:
I have heard of many paths people have taken and the most prominent one sounds awful.

Less known: NHSC and HPSP scholarships: can't rely on them as getting in is ultra cutthroat competitive even with a 4.0 gpa and a 25 DAT.

Most prominent: paying around 4-5k per month of your 7k dental associate salary after taxes for 10 years. You would be living with around 2k to spare for living/gas/insurance/food/etc. Living with less to spend then a elementary school teacher after getting your dental degree is just a sad, humiliating thought, especially for 5-10 years.

Daunting path: right after graduation or a couple years after start your business by borrowing 500k on top of your ever growing 400k debt and hopefully pray that your business doesn't crash and you are not left without anything in the end.

What other paths are there or is this really how terrible the dental students situation is after they graduate? Maybe go to europe for free dental school?? Can't find any information about it, so I assume it's not worth the effort.

Also not to mention that the 450k avg doesn't include cost of living. And for those who are intrested, I am a CA resident, so the tuition here for in state is the same as most private out if state dental school within the US.

*I am a freshman in college atm and am deciding whether to go for MD/DO/PA/DMD. If not for the massive debt, I would have not been questioning this path.*

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Disclaimer: I'm not an expert, I claim to know nothing, but from what I've been told by close friends/associates -

You live in California. Where are you getting this 7k dental associate salary after taxes? I live in one of the more expensive parts of California (not super expensive, but not cheap) ~ median income is 90k, but on average, from my peers and associates I'm really close with, their contracts are between $800-1100 per day fresh out of school. My closest friend finished school 3.5 years ago and has moved up to $1250 already and is considering buying a practice. He is doing the REPAYE program currently and graduated from UCSF with $415k. So really, he's paying his 5k a month to a loan and living on about 10-11k a month. He's been able to buy a house and his wife stays home with their 3 children.


To add my own 2 cents into it (again, I'm not an expert, just how I personally feel)- yes, monetary reasons are crucial to consider, but, if dentistry is your passion, then pursue it. I think it is important to be in dentistry if it is ultimately what you want to do. There will always be a sea of money where you go, it's up to you to work hard enough to find/earn/make things work. I chose dentistry over medicine for several reasons - none of which were financial. I don't think you can/should go into health care as a professional if you're solely focused on the monetary outcomes. The best practitioners in either field truly love the work they do.
 
fermi555 said:
How can a pre dent know dentistry is their "passion" (if it's even possible to be passionate about dentistry) before even picking up a hand piece?
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That's a good question. I think, for me personally, it was a combination of genuine interest in dentistry that began at an early age, fostered by good experiences and personal fulfillment/joy in helping and serving other people - then associating the two together, i.e. I can take my interest in dentistry and use it to serve other people. I don't necessarily think you need to pick up a hand piece, but I think it should be strongly suggested, if not recommended, that pre-dents spend a decent amount of time as a dental assistant in addition to shadowing hours. Reflecting on my experiences shadowing, I realized I had no clue what was actually going on, then it became much more clear when the pressure was on me as an assistant to keep up/be one step ahead of the dentist. Being an assistant is ultimately what helped me reassure that pursuing dentistry was a good choice.
 
2TH MVR said:
But is your dentist's life successful? Depends on how you define success. You're 70 and you have 8 figures. Impressive. But you're 70 lol.
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2th mover, remember you and I are going to turn 70 someday too haha.

I can't say whether his life is successful as that is a question only he can answer, but when I shadowed him, I got the feeling that he's a very happy man and he's lived a very fulfilling life. He's a very humble guy too, you would never even guess he was rich.

Besides, it's not a competition of who's successful and who's not. I feel very successful despite having a NW of $0, and I've never driven in an R8. Most people would probably look at me and say I'm a nobody, but it doesn't affect me. Success can't be measured by anyone but yourself. If you feel fulfilled and feel that your life is successful, then that is the only thing that matters.
 
ToothJockey said:
2th mover, remember you and I are going to turn 70 someday too haha.

I can't say whether his life is successful as that is a question only he can answer, but when I shadowed him, I got the feeling that he's a very happy man and he's lived a very fulfilling life. He's a very humble guy too, you would never even guess he was rich.

Besides, it's not a competition of who's successful and who's not. I feel very successful despite having a NW of $0, and I've never driven in an R8. Most people would probably look at me and say I'm a nobody, but it doesn't affect me. Success can't be measured by anyone but yourself. If you feel fulfilled and feel that your life is successful, then that is the only thing that matters.
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I just try to offer a different perspective here. Most sdn posters are so calculated. Understandably in this unfortunate high DS tuition situation .... predents needs to be informed to the actual costs of their choices. I get it. What I don't agree on is lost opportunity costs. What I believe in is lost opportunity LIFE costs. I'm starting to sound like a millennial lol. Not that that's a bad thing. There are posters here advocating getting through high school (skipping a year) as fast as possible. What? So a young person can enter the work arena sooner? You've got your entire life to work and build NW. How about the so called lost opportunity costs (LOC) of going to specialty residency? Look. If you want to be an ortho or endo, etc.etc. then DO IT. Who cares if you lose 2-3 yrs of gp salary. If your life's passion is to be a dentist. Go to the cheapest school. Find a semi-rural or rural area to practice. Get a PT job with Corp and buy or start your own private practice. A private practice will give you the best opportunity to pay down your DS debt. If your plan is to go to LA or any other saturated area .... well ..... good luck.
 
RYost234 said:
I agree 400k+ is absurd, especially considering the cost of entry just 20 years ago. People that go into dentistry to work as an associate at that cost will forever be in debt. But what about those who plan to open/merge into a practice asap? Living frugally while working at a Corp for 2 years while paying the minimum on loans will provide enough money to build a cheap startup or potentially buy into a practice. If you go the practice route, you could stay at Corp 4x/week and have your practice open 2-3 days until patient pool increases. If you buy into a practice you have a significant pay bump early. Is this not a viable strategy to tackle the loans? I think if your business savvy and are aggressive in your plan for ownership you'll be able to make it work at 400k
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Yes, it is one of the ways to tackle such high student loan debt. That’s what many of my GP friends, who had worked and the same corp offices with me, and I did. A dental office doesn’t have to cost 3-400k to set up. With a $80-150k budget, one can have a very nice office. When we set up our first offices, we continued to work P/T for the corp. This is a very low risk way to start a practice because we continued to have positive cash flow when our newly built offices didn’t have a lot of patients at the beginning. Once my friends’ offices got busier, they quit their associate jobs at the corp. For me, I continue to work P/T for the corp until now. That’s because I am an orthodontist and I only need 10-11 days/month to take care of my 800 active patients at 4 my own offices. So instead of wasting time doing nothing at home, I work 11 days/month for the corp office.

If your plan is to make $120k/year as an associate dentist for the rest of your life, then you shouldn’t take out $400-500k student loan. But if you can double or triple that income by having your own office, then a $4-500k student loan debt will not be an issue…. you will be way ahead financially than many of your non-dentist friends, who owe less student loan debt than you. How do you know if you have the right clinical and business skills to become a successful private practice dentist owner? Well, you don’t…..it’s a risk you must take. If you are not willing to take that risk, then don’t go to dental school. Go to med school (if you have good enough grade for it) instead.
 
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charlestweed said:
Yes, it is one of the ways to tackle such high student loan debt. That’s what many of my GP friends, who had worked and the same corp offices with me, and I did. A dental office doesn’t have to cost 3-400k to set up. With a $80-150k budget, one can have a very nice office. When we set up our first offices, we continued to work P/T for the corp. This is a very low risk way to start a practice because we continued to have positive cash flow when our newly built offices didn’t have a lot of patients at the beginning. Once my friends’ offices got busier, they quit their associate jobs at the corp. For me, I continue to work P/T for the corp until now. That’s because I am an orthodontist and I only need 10-11 days/month to take care of my 800 active patients at 4 my own offices. So instead of wasting time doing nothing at home, I work 11 days/month for the corp office.

If your plan is to make $120k/year as an associate dentist for the rest of your life, then you shouldn’t take out $400-500k student loan. But if you can double or triple that income by having your own office, then a $4-500k student loan debt will not be an issue…. you will be way ahead financially than many of your non-dentist friends, who owe less student loan debt than you. How do you if you have the right clinical and business skills to become a successful private practice dentist owner? Well, you don’t…..it’s a risk you must take. If you are not willing to take that risk, then don’t go to dental school. Go to med school (if you have good enough grade for it) instead.
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Personally, if I was finishing high school now and was looking down the barrel of doing dentistry and having to work 6 days a week forever just to get ahead I'd go and do something else. It's not really the lifestyle to be envious of. People do dentistry because they think they can work 4 days a week and kill it because that's the lifestyle dentists were always known for, but its changed now
 
Anondds87 said:
Personally, if I was finishing high school now and was looking down the barrel of doing dentistry and having to work 6 days a week forever just to get ahead I'd go and do something else. It's not really the lifestyle to be envious of. People do dentistry because they think they can work 4 days a week and kill it because that's the lifestyle dentists were always known for, but its changed now
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Yeah, I wouldn’t want to work 6 days/week forever either. I worked 6-7 days/week in my 30s, when my kids were only 1-2 yo, and when I had full of energy to do so to make sure that when I am in my 40s, I don’t need to work 6 days/wk....to make sure that I am 100% financially independent. I am 48 yo now….I can work 1-2 days/week now if I want to but I just don’t want to stay home 5 days/week doing nothing at this age. This coronavirus outbreak has forced me to stay home for 3+ weeks…..and it will be at least for another 4 weeks. It’s soooo boring. My left hand hurts so much from over-practicing the guitar.
 
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charlestweed said:
Yes, it is one of the ways to tackle such high student loan debt. That’s what many of my GP friends, who had worked and the same corp offices with me, and I did. A dental office doesn’t have to cost 3-400k to set up. With a $80-150k budget, one can have a very nice office. When we set up our first offices, we continued to work P/T for the corp. This is a very low risk way to start a practice because we continued to have positive cash flow when our newly built offices didn’t have a lot of patients at the beginning. Once my friends’ offices got busier, they quit their associate jobs at the corp. For me, I continue to work P/T for the corp until now. That’s because I am an orthodontist and I only need 10-11 days/month to take care of my 800 active patients at 4 my own offices. So instead of wasting time doing nothing at home, I work 11 days/month for the corp office.

If your plan is to make $120k/year as an associate dentist for the rest of your life, then you shouldn’t take out $400-500k student loan. But if you can double or triple that income by having your own office, then a $4-500k student loan debt will not be an issue…. you will be way ahead financially than many of your non-dentist friends, who owe less student loan debt than you. How do you if you have the right clinical and business skills to become a successful private practice dentist owner? Well, you don’t…..it’s a risk you must take. If you are not willing to take that risk, then don’t go to dental school. Go to med school (if you have good enough grade for it) instead.
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pubhealthdent said:
Haha good luck trying to get most doctors to agree with that logic
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Brother, his friends, and some of my friends are physicians. They know nothing about the oral cavity and they will tell you when someone says mouth or anything related they refer to a dentist. So logic is relative and their knowledge is limited. They envy dentists... some things like life and death situations you couldn't pay me enough for. Right now in NY they are deciding really to give the 80 yr old a ventilator to survive or the 25 year old... you know who they will choose. Italy has been doing similar..... Densitry tough time = damn this submargination on a filling or even worse... I can't get this tooth out that I made into a surgical so I am going to refer you to my buddy down the road. Money isn't everything. I would much rather have the later as an issue.
 
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Also just try to go to your public school for dental school. If you don't have the grades then work harder or smarter. I am in a public school and will come out with ~$150k in students debt (probably less). It is all possible. Don't see these private schools as a easy way in the profession because it will only get harder from there. Now I know some people start at $120k but if you can get your debt as close as you can to that number then yeah it is still a good investment. Most of my friends have been in the $150k+ range with no residency and $180k+ range with residency in different regions of the US. Do your own research and take what you hear with a grain of salt. Private schools are an easy way into the profession (easy being relative) but a harder way into financial freedom after so it is a give and take.
 
pubhealthdent said:
Care to elaborate?
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On average slightly lower stats for private schools compared to public. But what happens is that their class size in private school will start to get smaller in the post December stage of admissions because people that were accepted there were also accepted to their public school will choose public school most of the time. IN addition, private schools usually have more seats as well.
 
P7898 said:
Also just try to go to your public school for dental school. If you don't have the grades then work harder or smarter. I am in a public school and will come out with ~$150k in students debt (probably less). It is all possible. Don't see these private schools as a easy way in the profession because it will only get harder from there. Now I know some people start at $120k but if you can get your debt as close as you can to that number then yeah it is still a good investment. Most of my friends have been in the $150k+ range with no residency and $180k+ range with residency in different regions of the US. Do your own research and take what you hear with a grain of salt. Private schools are an easy way into the profession (easy being relative) but a harder way into financial freedom after so it is a give and take.
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There is no school that costs 150k total for dental school that is public and in state. The cheapest, if I remember correctly is around 280k and that goes to a Texas instate school. If you look through this thread you can see I posted an excel file with the actual debt you will incur with COL, intrest, and 3-5% increase in tuition per year factored in.

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fermi555 said:
How can a pre dent know dentistry is their "passion" (if it's even possible to be passionate about dentistry) before even picking up a hand piece?
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Natural interest, self reflection, and shadow/work/volunteer experience.
 
FutureDoc2001 said:
There is no school that costs 150k total for dental school that is public and in state. The cheapest, if I remember correctly is around 280k and that goes to a Texas instate school. If you look through this thread you can see I posted an excel file with the actual debt you will incur with COL, intrest, and 3-5% increase in tuition per year factored in.

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That excel sheet doesn't take scholarships or subsidized HPL/LDS loans into account. While not common, its still possible to get a dental education for less than <200k. I'm looking at ~120k personally
 
BasicG said:
That excel sheet doesn't take scholarships or subsidized HPL/LDS loans into account. While not common, its still possible to get a dental education for less than QUOTE]

Could you give us some tips and tricks to finding the best scholarships and where to look for them? Lds and HPL is for disadvantaged students, and from what I heard you have to be really disadvantaged to get it. Also which school do you attend and can you break down your cost for the school with how you arrived at 120k?

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FutureDoc2001 said:
There is no school that costs 150k total for dental school that is public and in state. The cheapest, if I remember correctly is around 280k and that goes to a Texas instate school. If you look through this thread you can see I posted an excel file with the actual debt you will incur with COL, intrest, and 3-5% increase in tuition per year factored in.

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I go to one of the top 3 cheapest. But like I said nothing good is easy.
 
BasicG said:
That excel sheet doesn't take scholarships or subsidized HPL/LDS loans into account. While not common, its still possible to get a dental education for less than <200k. I'm looking at ~120k personally
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The truth.
 
Trying to stay anonymous but it is one that only takes in state.
 
P7898 said:
I go to one of the top 3 cheapest. But like I said nothing good is easy.
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P7898 said:
Trying to stay anonymous but it is one that only takes in state.
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I agree 100% with that. If you really wanna go for cheap you can. Mine will cost me around 120k plus living. It's not a texas school. Some people think texas schools are the only options for lower cost, but there are some other state schools that are also reasonable. I also want to stay anonymous. You just gotta put in the work and do the research.
 
GoDental101 said:
I agree 100% with that. If you really wanna go for cheap you can. Mine will cost me around 120k plus living. It's not a texas school. Some people think texas schools are the only options for lower cost, but there are some other state schools that are also reasonable. I also want to stay anonymous. You just gotta put in the work and do the research.
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Please explain how a school can cost 120k? Other than scholarships which are difficult to get from what I have seen.
 
FutureDoc2001 said:


Please explain how a school can cost 120k? Other than scholarships which are difficult to get from what I have seen.
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I had a couple people in my class live at home, thus never took out the COL portion, which significantly decreases debt load. Unfortunately for most, this is not an option.
 
FutureDoc2001 said:


Please explain how a school can cost 120k? Other than scholarships which are difficult to get from what I have seen.
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I didn't look at every school or everything on that chart, but my school was over-estimated by about 20k tuition on that chart.
 
pubhealthdent said:
I had a couple people in my class live at home, thus never took out the COL portion, which significantly decreases debt load. Unfortunately for most, this is not an option.
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Yep, even for me in CA, the closest in state dental school is 3 hours away from where I live. COL is a factor in probably a good 90% of students.
 
FutureDoc2001 said:
Yep, even for me in CA, the closest in state dental school is 3 hours away from where I live. COL is a factor in probably a good 90% of students.
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Yeah being from California definitely increases the difficulty of going to a cheaper school. I definitely think most schools are extremely expensive no doubt, I'm just saying from my personal experience you can make it work to get a good deal. You may even have to move out of state and live somewhere else for a year. Just that could save you a 100-200k if you also have the stats to back it up.
 
@FutureDoc2001

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UMKC gave me instate tuition and they also offered an 80k scholarship. So 172k-80=92k. Adding in living expenses and other misc. expenses like a new xbox this november should add up to ~120k.

Regarding HPL/LDS loans..people think they don't qualify so they don't apply for them. My fiance's parents make over 100k combined but she still was offered 20k. I got 41k this year which was enough for me to pay all my school expenses and sit that money into a high interest savings account which made me a few hundred dollars. I plan on taking out the full amount (41k) of HPL loans every year so at the end of my 4th year, I should have ~45k, which will give me options if I want to open a practice or need money for a specialty program. If I don't need it, I can always return it back without penalty because interest doesn't accrue until after I graduate.
 
The tuition count is without grants from the school or grants from the state if you go to a state school so those are raw numbers without grants from the school, grants from the state, or scholarships.
 
BasicG said:
@FutureDoc2001

View attachment 300596


UMKC gave me instate tuition and they also offered an 80k scholarship. So 172k-80=92k. Adding in living expenses and other misc. expenses like a new xbox this november should add up to ~120k.

Regarding HPL/LDS loans..people think they don't qualify so they don't apply for them. My fiance's parents make over 100k combined but she still was offered 20k. I got 41k this year which was enough for me to pay all my school expenses and sit that money into a high interest savings account which made me a few hundred dollars. I plan on taking out the full amount (41k) of HPL loans every year so at the end of my 4th year, I should have ~45k, which will give me options if I want to open a practice or need money for a specialty program. If I don't need it, I can always return it back without penalty because interest doesn't accrue until after I graduate.
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Similar set up as above. It is like this. You can find a price of anything online.... but why buy something expensive at full price??? Always look for coupons or something to get discounts. Congrats on the price! 120-150k debt really makes this profession a very good investment.
 
FutureDoc2001 said:
I'm not sure how that can be as this information is the latest from 2019-2020

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I don't know where you got the info...I can go to my schools website right now and get a different number. I was also charged a different number (that's what really matters).
 
GoDental101 said:
I don't know where you got the info...I can go to my schools website right now and get a different number. I was also charged a different number (that's what really matters).
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I am charged a different number too. I just go in my account and see what the school charges me and that is that. OP if you are worried about debt then go do something else - grad school is not for you if you are this worried. Just try and make it a manageable amount and if you cannot stomach it then do something else. No foul or harm done!
 
P7898 said:
I am charged a different number too. I just go in my account and see what the school charges me and that is that. OP if you are worried about debt then go do something else - grad school is not for you if you are this worried. Just try and make it a manageable amount and if you cannot stomach it then do something else. No foul or harm done!
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I am sure any reasonable person would be worried to go into a grad program that costs 400k avg for my in state in CA and OOS for all the other schools. You are telling me 400k avg in debt is not something someone should be really worried about with the avg income of an associate dentist being 150k goss? I hope you are trolling!
 
FutureDoc2001 said:
I am sure any reasonable person would be worried to go into a grad program that costs 400k avg for my in state in CA and OOS for all the other schools. You are telling me 400k avg in debt is not something someone should be really worried about with the avg income of an associate dentist being 150k goss? I hope you are trolling!
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Ha I am not trolling. Significant other is a new grad AEGD trained dentist so yah...
 
FutureDoc2001 said:
I am sure any reasonable person would be worried to go into a grad program that costs 400k avg for my in state in CA and OOS for all the other schools. You are telling me 400k avg in debt is not something someone should be really worried about with the avg income of an associate dentist being 150k goss? I hope you are trolling!
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Just don't compromise to be average then. (also average is like 280k, so at 400k your debt would be much higher than average)
 
It is not even out of the norm. Some people get offered $200k in NEEDED areas.... go look at the dentist/practicing dentist forums.
 
GoDental101 said:
Just don't compromise to be average then. (also average is like 280k, so at 400k your debt would be much higher than average)
Click to expand...
280k does not factor in the interest, COL, 3-5 percent increase after every year, etc...
Check out the spread sheet for the actual values
 
P7898 said:
It is not even out of the norm. Some people get offered $200k in NEEDED areas.... go look at the dentist/practicing dentist forums.
Click to expand...
I know there is an option to go to rural area and get 200k gross. Usually those positions dont have benefits such as healthcare, etc..
But I asked on this form to see what else people are doing other than the obvious..
 
FutureDoc2001 said:
280k does not factor in the interest, COL, 3-5 percent increase after every year, etc...
Check out the spread sheet for the actual values
Click to expand...
Well just be above average. Change your circumstances if you need to. You can move to anyone of those states and after a year you'll get a better tuition as well as increase your odds for acceptance. Plus like others said you can get grants/scholarships. With high stats/need they aren't as rare as you'd think.
 
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