women late 20s/early 30s applying to med school

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Mae16

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I'm interested in hearing from women in their late 20s/early 30s who have applied to medical school. Medicine can be somewhat of an old boys network, and even for the most progressive person, the prospect of signing up for an intensive education and a 70+ hour/week residency while getting pregnant and meeting the demands of a new baby is daunting. I'm wondering how this played out for people while they were applying, if it was an issue at all.

Any non-trad women feel that they ran into discrimination during the application process or got questioned on this or perhaps feel that they weren't considered in a fair way because of their age and the prospect that they would likely become mothers during med school?

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Aren't more than 50% of medical students women?
 
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Any non-trad women feel that they ran into discrimination during the application process or got questioned on this or perhaps feel that they weren't considered in a fair way because of their age and the prospect that they would likely become mothers during med school?
No, this topic did not come up even once on any of 17 interviews that I attended. It's illegal for interviewers to question you about it anyway, although I'm sure it happens to some people if they get an untrained interviewer. However, if anything, my school is completely the opposite--very supportive of female students who have babies during med school.
 
Medicine can be somewhat of an old boys network, and even for the most progressive person, the prospect of signing up for an intensive education and a 70+ hour/week residency while getting pregnant and meeting the demands of a new baby is daunting.

I'm not sure why you put it this way. Is this a prospect for you, meaning, you're considering getting pregnant in medical school or residency? If so, yeah, "daunting" doesn't even begin to describe it, for the most progressive person, the most regressive, and everyone in between. I consider it... unwise, to put it mildly, to go to medical school.
 
I'm interested in hearing from women in their late 20s/early 30s who have applied to medical school. Medicine can be somewhat of an old boys network, and even for the most progressive person, the prospect of signing up for an intensive education and a 70+ hour/week residency while getting pregnant and meeting the demands of a new baby is daunting. I'm wondering how this played out for people while they were applying, if it was an issue at all.

Any non-trad women feel that they ran into discrimination during the application process or got questioned on this or perhaps feel that they weren't considered in a fair way because of their age and the prospect that they would likely become mothers during med school?

No, not at all. Never questioned, and if I do get discriminated against, it'll be on the basis of my GPA and MCAT. :smuggrin:

The biggest problem you're going to face being pregnant in medical school or during residency is yourself. If you're prone to the common symptoms of pregnancy, then you'll be dealing with the fatigue, swollen ankles, frequent urination, etc...not anybody else. If you're lucky enough to have an easy pregnancy, then you've got less of a problem.

Really, I don't think it's that big of a deal. Some women want children, others don't, and schools aren't so oblivious that they're not going to know that. But they've also other things to worry about. I think they're most concerned with whether or not you'll be a good fit for their school, and whether you have what it takes to be a competent physician.

My take on things.
 
why would they care about your personal business?


I'm interested in hearing from women in their late 20s/early 30s who have applied to medical school. Medicine can be somewhat of an old boys network, and even for the most progressive person, the prospect of signing up for an intensive education and a 70+ hour/week residency while getting pregnant and meeting the demands of a new baby is daunting. I'm wondering how this played out for people while they were applying, if it was an issue at all.

Any non-trad women feel that they ran into discrimination during the application process or got questioned on this or perhaps feel that they weren't considered in a fair way because of their age and the prospect that they would likely become mothers during med school?
 
The vast majority of the interviewers I encountered were very positive and in some cases eager to show their school's support of women having kids before/during medical school. I had one interviewer who seemed a bit more wary, but he was hard to read on just about everything, so I may have been interpreting his reactions wrong anyway!

Good luck to you-
 
The vast majority of the interviewers I encountered were very positive and in some cases eager to show their school's support of women having kids before/during medical school. I had one interviewer who seemed a bit more wary, but he was hard to read on just about everything, so I may have been interpreting his reactions wrong anyway!

Good luck to you-
Would you mind sharing what these schools were? PM if you don't feel comfortable posting it. I have a 15 month old and my husband and I plan to have at least one more baby before I would finish medical school (I am applying this coming cycle).
 
Nah, never felt like I faced any discrimination on this account, tho one interviewer seriously questioned whether I had adequately prepared my husband for the trials and tribulations of being a doctor's spouse. That being said, I worry about this quite frequently. I have no idea how to handle medical school or residency while being pregnant. It is a scary thought and one I keep putting off thinking about.
 
Would you mind sharing what these schools were? PM if you don't feel comfortable posting it. I have a 15 month old and my husband and I plan to have at least one more baby before I would finish medical school (I am applying this coming cycle).


Sure - I am a TX resident, and so I applied to only TX schools (we have a great deal going here!) - U of Texas Southwestern (Dallas), UTexas Houston, UTMB in Galveston, and Baylor College of Medicine. Baylor was probably the most friendly, and the student guide at UTMB was a nontrad w/ kids who took time out to tell me about the school options for my kids, where I should live, etc... Very nice. Interviewers at UT Houston and UTSW both asked if they could ask about my kids "off the record" - made it VERY clear that I didn't have to talk about it if I didn't want to - and then were very friendly about students having a family in med school and how they had many students who had successfully managed.

You're welcome to PM me if you have any more questions about it-
 
Thank you! Unfortunately, though, I don't think I'll be applying to any of the schools in Texas, as we're hoping to stay on the east coast. But we may end up moving who knows where when it's time for residency.
 
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I'm not sure why you put it this way. Is this a prospect for you, meaning, you're considering getting pregnant in medical school or residency? If so, yeah, "daunting" doesn't even begin to describe it, for the most progressive person, the most regressive, and everyone in between. I consider it... unwise, to put it mildly, to go to medical school.

Really? From a med student? Medical school, residency, and parenthood are all daunting prospects, but plenty of women manage all three. My best advice is to talk to women who have struck the balance successfully. It's not easy, but it's definitely not impossible! Half the female physicians I know had children before they became attending physicians. Sleep doesn't factor into the equation, but it's certainly not "unwise" if you're prepared for it.
 
FYI- I know a women who decided to have children in her first years of medschool and found it very doable. She said that professors were very accommodating and that she was even able to take exams at home and in the hospital. Although it is (of course) difficult, she was fine and recommended it over have children in residency. Her point was that in medschool, no one else (i.e. residents) is affected if you are unable to take call or take time off, etc.

I think that anyone telling you not to have children (or on the contrary going to medschool) is not being terribly sensitive. Of course, pregnancies are preventable, but women, unlike men, have a limited amount time. For the men out there- please realize this and be sympathetic. Imagine thinking you might have to choose between a career you would love and potentially having a family.

In response to Trismegistus4- I disagree and find your perspective archaic. You are obviously lucky enough not to have to make this decision or have a perspective where family is favored over career. Other people favor them equally making it a difficult situation.
 
Never questioned about my age, plans for a family, or anything of that nature on any of the interviews I've been on. If an interviewer did ask something to imply that he/she did not think I was fit for medicine due to my possession of a vagina that might pop out some babies sometime in the future, I would probably report the incident to the admissions office and request another interview.
 
As a mom in med school, I think it would be easier to go in w/ a kid than to get pregnant during intern year. The only "trick" to it is that there is a tendency to assume that you will be available with relatively short notice, so you need child care available on short notice. Anyone with XX can get pregnant, age is not an issue. At my school the class is 50/50 M/F, so discrimination is technically impossible. Our school assumes some of the female students will get pregnant during school, and our clinical director will meet with you to work out a baby plan, including just to discuss when the best time to conceive would be for you.
I've actually found that people are very sympathetic to parents at our school, and will go out of their way to help you out. It's actually at a point where I sort of don't want my attendings to know, because I feel like I get special treatment.
 
I already had children during the interview process- which apparently my LOR highlighted as an example of how I was a top student despite demands of family. So I had the question at almost every interview as to how I planned to handle everything. (Fair question, btw, as someone who isn't already planning that out is less likely to make it upon matriculation.) I DID have an interviewer (female) at one school be very negative about family and medical school. I shot back with my perspective and plans for balance. I was accepted, but there was no way I was attending that school. Of course, it was not my first choice either.

Ultimately it will be about how you handle children/med school/family that determines your success. As someone who had children prior to med school, and is expecting her last in a few months, it IS doable. You must be organized, have a supportive partner/support network, and extremely reliable childcare.

Good luck!
 
Well, based on what I've read, that's all I've heard as well. Although I do not have children (but I am married), a friend of mine and a fellow female-late 20s/early-30s co-applicant does have 3 kids and is married, she probably has a different take on this question.

Although she is not interviewing yet, she was questioned by an admissions dean about her kids and what she is going to do with them. Illegal? Probably not since she mentioned the topic HERSELF. Was she asked? No. This being a non-trad forum, it's inevitable that kids are going to come up because let's face it, in her situation, her classes for her first undergrad and prerequisites all revolved around her 3 children and their schedules, too. She could not be a transitional straight full time student. And she somehow managed to earn a 3.9 GPA with all that (and while working full time).

The question of kids came up when she was asked about her storadick class scheduling and why she chose to do certain extracurriculars. She, of course, had to mention the kids. The follow up questions is what drove her to the ground. The dean made a face (according to my friend) and said "well, what are you going to do with the kids while you are in school?" My friend was prepared to answer and started explaining all the extended family she had in town, her supportive husband, etc. The dean didn't seem impressed. She then said that my friend should consider a medical school in her city (ouch) and that there are "other schools out there" (double ouch). She also said that commuting/kids/husbands don't work very well at her school. Or actually the way she said it exactly was, "I have found it to be an obstacle to graduation for some students."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding or my friend is misunderstanding, but I wouldn't call this "discrimination" because having a family does make things tougher on people. Perhaps stating it the way she did was a little rough, but she does have a point. Would it also have been fair for my friend to say that she did get 3.9 in her prereqs fair and square with 3 kids? Sure. But my friend chickened out and got scared.

I guess the thing I got out of her experience is the less you talk about it, the less they are going to think about it and the less they have a chance to say that you're a "high risk to drop out" or "fail out" or "deferment" student because of family issues. I told her that too much explanation is probably giving them too much information (that is none of their business anyway) although it's nice to see that one has thought out the whole process. Bottom line, to me, it sounded like she wanted my friend to say that "school comes first, kids come last" whether true or not. I think you would have to be an idiot to think that such is the case, but they want to hear it, so give it to them... :)

My friend doesn't agree with me because she says she would never say that, even if it means passing up a med school admission. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.
 
My friend doesn't agree with me because she says she would never say that, even if it means passing up a med school admission. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I agree with your friend, but for a more practical reason. An outside support system is important, but institutional support is important, too. It sounds like your friend wouldn't get that kind of support at that school, and she's wise to move on somewhere else where she would get it. An indifferent administration would only compound any potential problems she might have.
 
Having children during medical school and residency is not an uncommon practice. The idea above that you "should not go to medical school" is extremely surprising since it supposedly comes from a medical student. We have women in every year of schooling at our program that are pregnant or already have children. Honestly, I don't know many women that plan on waiting until after all their education is over to have children. Depending on your residency choice...you could be past reproductive years by the time that happens! Every school at which I interviewed had students that discussed the ability to have a family during school. A few even had quiet rooms that nursing mothers could sit in during lecture! I'm sure its not easy to have kids during school/residency...but really, when is it ever easy? You just make it work.
 
I agree with your friend, but for a more practical reason. An outside support system is important, but institutional support is important, too. It sounds like your friend wouldn't get that kind of support at that school, and she's wise to move on somewhere else where she would get it. An indifferent administration would only compound any potential problems she might have.

This is a great point, and I've definitely heard quite the range of opinions in terms of how supportive/unsupportive institutions can be.

To me, the real dilemma seems to be finding out which institutions are "supportive" without throwing yourself under the bus. As an unmarried woman in her mid twenties with no children, this doesn't necessarily HAVE to be an issue for me, but the idea that I may want children before I finish school is not beyond the realm of possibility.

I'd like to research how supportive different institutions are of family and what allowances they make for pregnant students as I choose which schools to apply to next year, but don't know how to get this information without sticking a gigantic red flag on my name. Ideas?
 
Even as a male, I would be interested in seeing how compassionate a school is with this issue as well as the school's "malignancy" if any

I hypothesize there is an inverse relationship... more compassionate, less malignant. Less compassionate, more malignant...

I have no data to back this up, but still, it'd definitely be worthy of a research project.
 
As a mom in med school, I think it would be easier to go in w/ a kid than to get pregnant during intern year. The only "trick" to it is that there is a tendency to assume that you will be available with relatively short notice, so you need child care available on short notice. Anyone with XX can get pregnant, age is not an issue. At my school the class is 50/50 M/F, so discrimination is technically impossible. Our school assumes some of the female students will get pregnant during school, and our clinical director will meet with you to work out a baby plan, including just to discuss when the best time to conceive would be for you.
I've actually found that people are very sympathetic to parents at our school, and will go out of their way to help you out. It's actually at a point where I sort of don't want my attendings to know, because I feel like I get special treatment.

Thanks for sharing. When you are in school, where are your kids? Are you married? If so, what does your husband do? I'm thinking of going into medicine but the biggest thing that concerns me is when I'm going to have children. I don't want to be 30+ when I have my first child...
 
I'm interested in hearing from women in their late 20s/early 30s who have applied to medical school. Medicine can be somewhat of an old boys network, and even for the most progressive person, the prospect of signing up for an intensive education and a 70+ hour/week residency while getting pregnant and meeting the demands of a new baby is daunting. I'm wondering how this played out for people while they were applying, if it was an issue at all.

Any non-trad women feel that they ran into discrimination during the application process or got questioned on this or perhaps feel that they weren't considered in a fair way because of their age and the prospect that they would likely become mothers during med school?

I reject the premise of your question. Medicine today is far from being an "old boy's network". Women are well represented in medicine and childbearing/rearing is common. You may want to consult other websites and people who have had children while undergoing medical training for their thoughts on the process.

Not only did I enter medical school earlier than most people on this website, I completed general surgery residnecy and fellowship without finding any discrimination of any kind that involved my gender.
 
I reject the premise of your question. Medicine today is far from being an "old boy's network". Women are well represented in medicine and childbearing/rearing is common. You may want to consult other websites and people who have had children while undergoing medical training for their thoughts on the process.

+1

Not that there isn't *******ness and arrogance to deal with -- but none of it that I've seen so far has anything to do with gender.
 
Having children during medical school and residency is not an uncommon practice. The idea above that you "should not go to medical school" is extremely surprising since it supposedly comes from a medical student.

Well, keep in mind that I don't recommend that anyone go to medical school, including the pre-2007 Trismegistus4, whom I wish I could reach back in time and smack some sense into...

To me, asking "can I get through medical school and residency as a mother of young children" is a bit like asking "can I row from Portland, Maine to Key West in a canoe?" Yes, I guess it's theoretically possible, but why would you want to? If your goal is to get from Portland to Key West, there are far more efficient ways to do it. If, on the other hand, your goal is to have some fun paddling around in a canoe, a pond is a much better choice for a body of water than an ocean.

And yeah, the idea that medicine in 2010 is an "old boys network" is laughable. Would that it were so! Even from the crusty old white male attendings I've met, I've been subject to more left-wing rants that right-wing ones, including one who boasted of having been a director of Planned Parenthood and informed me with a sly grin that "Republicans don't like gay people..."
 
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Well, keep in mind that I don't recommend that anyone go to medical school, including the pre-2007 Trismegistus4, whom I wish I could reach back in time and smack some sense into...

To me, asking "can I get through medical school and residency as a mother of young children" is a bit like asking "can I row from Portland, Maine to Key West in a canoe?" Yes, I guess it's theoretically possible, but why would you want to? If your goal is to get from Portland to Key West, there are far more efficient ways to do it. If, on the other hand, your goal is to have some fun paddling around in a canoe, a pond is a much better choice for a body of water than an ocean.

And yeah, the idea that medicine in 2010 is an "old boys network" is laughable. Would that it were so! Even from the crusty old white male attendings I've met, I've been subject to more left-wing rants that right-wing ones, including one who boasted of having been a director of Planned Parenthood and informed me with a sly grin that "Republicans don't like gay people..."

Well that just makes it sound like only superman/woman can do it. Thanks, I guess. :) But I don't consider myself that rare of a person, just someone who is organized, has an awesome spouse, and great kids. :thumbup:

Is it hard at times? Yes. Like Sunday, when my youngest had to go to the ER when I had planned to study my physical exam for Monday small group. I ended up reading and practicing it with the equipment in the Peds ER while my daughter comfortably watched Tinkerbell. Win-win in a bad situation in my book.

Is it worth it? Absolutely. But I am only a year in- time will tell. ;)
 
hello! i'm 29 and just completed the application cycle for the fall. i did not find myself to be at as much of a disadvantage as i expected going into the process. i too was worried about how i would be perceived-- not just being an older woman, but being someone who switched career paths. I was expecting to get a lot of push-back about my motivation for pursuing medicine, but i didn't at all!! and no one asked me if i was married, or if i planned on having kids any time soon.

i had one odd interaction with an older man interviewer at harvard... he kept trying to tell me that harvard was an old boys network and women never really had a place. i'm not sure if he was trying to inspire me or discourage me :)

also, this is an interesting article that might be useful to have "in your pocket" so to speak, in case anyone ever doubts your ability to succeed in medicine. These folks studied the relationship between age, gender, and medical school performance, and found a highly significant gender-age interaction. The punchline: older women perform better than younger women, older men, and younger men. we are the best! :)

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j80r4422l2j64487/
 
Inspiring but they'll probably need to do it with a larger sample size in order for it to have implications on how older women perform in med school. I totally believe it tho. Yay.
 
+1

Not that there isn't *******ness and arrogance to deal with -- but none of it that I've seen so far has anything to do with gender.


This.

Crying sexism/gender bias does not equate to having actually been subjected to it.
 
hello!

i had one odd interaction with an older man interviewer at harvard... he kept trying to tell me that harvard was an old boys network and women never really had a place. i'm not sure if he was trying to inspire me or discourage me :)

I have heard this from two other women who interviewed at Harvard (not to medical school specifically).
 
So in reading this and some of the older conversations on this topic, I've come to make a very unofficial, general observation:

It seems that all the women who speak from the experience of parenting in one capacity or another during med school are overall very positive and encouraging. The vast majority of those who are outright negative seem to NOT have experience and rather be explaining personal reasons for making the choice not to have children during med school (which I totally respect, as well).

I point this out only to ask if there are any "lurking" MD moms out there who DID have children or become pregnant during med school and would still advise against it.
 
To me, asking "can I get through medical school and residency as a mother of young children" is a bit like asking "can I row from Portland, Maine to Key West in a canoe?" Yes, I guess it's theoretically possible, but why would you want to? If your goal is to get from Portland to Key West, there are far more efficient ways to do it. If, on the other hand, your goal is to have some fun paddling around in a canoe, a pond is a much better choice for a body of water than an ocean.

As someone who has actually combined motherhood and medical school (and is currently combining residency and motherhood -- and doing fine, thanks) ... I didn't find it to be anywhere near as arduous as you apparently assume. Besides, your analogy strikes a false note. Sure, it'd be easier, I guess, to paddle around in a lake for the rest of my life. But I'm not that girl. Given my own professional aspirations, the dreams my husband and I have for our growing family, and the practical limits of my fertility, becoming a mother during medical training was, in fact, the most direct route to the life I (we) want. And far from being some kind of grueling nightmare, my marriage, kid and career are all thriving. Hell, I'll probably have a second child as a resident. How is that so hard to understand?

FWIW, OP, I haven't found medicine to be anything like an "old boys network". Don't spend another second worrying about this. Total waste of precious time and energy much better put to other uses.
 
I am a non-trad coming from the ultimate good old boys network--the military. I worked everyday as the only or one of the only women and was deployed more times than I like to think--with a husband and child(ren) at home.

I applied with a husband and 2 children. I made a conscious effort to not discuss my children, but was open about being married--and that fact only came up a couple of times. My feeling is, I know I can be successful in medical school with my family, but I didn't want someone else to believe some stereotype or assume that I cannot do it based on their experiences. I decided if it's an issue, I want to be given the opportunity to change their minds in the end.

I only had one issue come up with an interviewer, who asked if I was married and if I had children. He also tried to get me to tell him my GPA and MCAT scores. I answered honestly about my family, but successfully dodged the stats questions (at that point, it was a game for me). He did feel the need to recommend that once I get accepted, my husband and I should start marriage counseling right away to ensure our marriage was strong enough to handle it. I just smiled and said, "that's a great idea, thanks for the advice. I think our marriage is fairly strong to have survived 500+ days deployed, but again, sir that's great advice--we'll definitely look into that." Then I proceeded to throw up a little bit in my mouth--I did keep a smile on my face though. And OBTW--I did get accepted there.

Please understand, I am only discussing my experience and it is not in the medical field, but I cannot say I've really had any problems in my current field. I have found that if in these "male-dominated" fields, the men are open to you being there, the ball is in your court and your experience depends a lot on how you react to varying situations. Obviously, go with your inner-gut and react accordingly, but, for me, there's not a lot that offends me, so most things, I really don't care too much about and it's usually not worth my time worrying about. Another thing that has helped me in dealing with people (particularly men)--they may get angry or frustrated and vent outwardly or even directly at you, but they usually forget about in 5min or less, so I had to work very hard to do the same thing. Now, I don't get too bothered about much of anything they spout off about. I usually don't even remember what it was about.

At the end of the day, I feel you have to do for you! If that means having children at an inopportune time (and who really can decide the right time for you?), have your kids--do what's going to work for you. I had my first child at the WORST possible time in my military career, but it worked out. I had my child and went about my marry way. I was very conscious about trying not to have others have to pick up extra weight for me and those that I worked with (men and women) soon forgot about my months of being pregnant. We had TONS of help that made it all possible and it was definitely hard at times, but nobody can judge you, based on what's right for you and your family.

I could (obviously) ramble on and on about it, so I'll stop, but good luck to you all!
 
I only applied to one school, and was already a mother, but I did not run into any issues that you are concerned about. The admissions personnel specifically said that they do not consider or even discuss age/gender as it would be discriminatory and unethical. I had no problems getting in, no rude/overly personal questions about family life, all good. I did mention my children in the personal statement (positively and with no apologies for being a parent) and briefly talked about them in the interview when asked.

Now, when my mother was applying to medical school as a late-20s mother in the early 80s, she did get some flack (interview grilling about how could she ever do it with a kid, etc) but she got in and rocked it anyway.
 
I have three kids, and am in medical school. There's advantages to having the kids already, and advantages to having the kids later. You'll have more time now as a student, if you postpone kids, but later, when you're a young attending, you'll have to juggle sleepless newborn nights with building your career. Personally, I enjoyed 6 years of primarily being a mom with very flexible employment and now am enjoying 6 years of primarily being a student/resident with very flexible parenting duties. :) When I'm a young attending, my kids will be 13 and 11. They can babysit your newborns...

Depends on your relationship status, internal motivation, like for juggling many things vs. prioritizing one aspect of your life etc. Also, as many people have stated, there is no perfect time to have kids. You just pick a reasonable time and go with it.
 
I'm interested in hearing from women in their late 20s/early 30s who have applied to medical school. Medicine can be somewhat of an old boys network, and even for the most progressive person, the prospect of signing up for an intensive education and a 70+ hour/week residency while getting pregnant and meeting the demands of a new baby is daunting. I'm wondering how this played out for people while they were applying, if it was an issue at all.

Any non-trad women feel that they ran into discrimination during the application process or got questioned on this or perhaps feel that they weren't considered in a fair way because of their age and the prospect that they would likely become mothers during med school?

I don't know about other states but in Texas, most of the people I interviewed with were women, most in positions of authority in the administration, so I definitely would not call it a good ol' boy network anymore. Kinda ironic for a state known for it's southern ways but there it is.
 
Finishing up my second year of medical school, also a mother of four children, nine years and under. It's been a great experience so far, I have no regrets. Out of more than 180 students, I am the only female in my class with kids, so I am a bit of an enigma. But the faculty have been very supportive--the dean offering to have my micro exam rescheduled so I would not have to miss my son's first day of pre-k, for example. I have enjoyed school and I still have time to read to the kids every night--we're in the middle of The Hobbit at the moment. I wouldn't worry about this, it will work out.
 
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