Women or gays in Urology?

[M3goingon4]

they dont let us delete copies!

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[lennox23]

"dude 'MS3going on4

couple of items.
1) your "living a few blocks" from a "gay neighborhood" makes you an expert on the educational capabilities of an entire nation? its not hard to find data regarding the fact that gay people make more money and have higher level of education than their heterosexual counterparts.

2) your knowing "one person" in your "large class" means that nationwide there is less than 1% gay people in med school? did you ever consider the number of people who...shudder...you may not know their sexual orientation!! whoa! did you consider that your class may not be representative of the whole nation? based on your 'i've crawled out from under a rock' statements, i somehow doubt you are in med school in a big liberal city like SF, where up to 5-10% of the class is gay or lesbian.

3) you can quit calling people "girls" once they turn 16 or so.

4) your "shadowing and research" of surgeons is not applicable, once again to the whole country. your question "have you ever met a gay surgeon" is completely assanine. there are transgender surgeons, gay surgeons, lesbian surgeons...i'd estimate that 10% of the women surgeons (not girls) i know are lesbians, and probably 1-2% of the men are gay. oh, but you've been to five hospitals....in three cities.

5) not everyone who responds on this post is a "dude". about 50% of this country, and 47% of med students, and 20% of surgical residents, and 14% of surgeons actually have two X chromosomes! I know it may sound hard for you to believe since you so eloquently stated "a few [girls-sic] will be smart enought to make it that far"

6) i know you think that having an MD is the penultimate, and since I have one, yes i'm proud of it. BUt did you know that there are...oh my god...OTHER doctorate degrees that are considered just as high (or, in the case of PhD's...often "higher" )education?

7) you said "we're doctors"...i'd like to point out that the YOU part of "we're" is actually NOT a doctor. based on your other posts, you are in fact probably a second year med student....(but somehow, an expert, based on your housing locale and massive experience 'talking to surgeons' on how many surgeons are gay or lesbian)

"dude" you should consider how insulting your post is...and think before you embarrass yourself (even anonymously) online.

 

[cytoskelement]

Please let this thread die.

 

[M3goingon4]

"dude 'MS3going on4

couple of items.
1) your "living a few blocks" from a "gay neighborhood" makes you an expert on the educational capabilities of an entire nation? its not hard to find data regarding the fact that gay people make more money and have higher level of education than their heterosexual counterparts.

2) your knowing "one person" in your "large class" means that nationwide there is less than 1% gay people in med school? did you ever consider the number of people who...shudder...you may not know their sexual orientation!! whoa! did you consider that your class may not be representative of the whole nation? based on your 'i've crawled out from under a rock' statements, i somehow doubt you are in med school in a big liberal city like SF, where up to 5-10% of the class is gay or lesbian.

3) you can quit calling people "girls" once they turn 16 or so.

4) your "shadowing and research" of surgeons is not applicable, once again to the whole country. your question "have you ever met a gay surgeon" is completely assanine. there are transgender surgeons, gay surgeons, lesbian surgeons...i'd estimate that 10% of the women surgeons (not girls) i know are lesbians, and probably 1-2% of the men are gay. oh, but you've been to five hospitals....in three cities.

5) not everyone who responds on this post is a "dude". about 50% of this country, and 47% of med students, and 20% of surgical residents, and 14% of surgeons actually have two X chromosomes! I know it may sound hard for you to believe since you so eloquently stated "a few [girls-sic] will be smart enought to make it that far"

6) i know you think that having an MD is the penultimate, and since I have one, yes i'm proud of it. BUt did you know that there are...oh my god...OTHER doctorate degrees that are considered just as high (or, in the case of PhD's...often "higher" )education?

7) you said "we're doctors"...i'd like to point out that the YOU part of "we're" is actually NOT a doctor. based on your other posts, you are in fact probably a second year med student....(but somehow, an expert, based on your housing locale and massive experience 'talking to surgeons' on how many surgeons are gay or lesbian)

"dude" you should consider how insulting your post is...and think before you embarrass yourself (even anonymously) online.

i'm sorry cyto, i couldnt resist...
i didn't want to make a big deal out of this, but i guess i knew someone would respond as such, and i had to take the bait

lennox, a careful inspection of my post will illustrate that i already answered several of your points, though you make good ones as well.

1) homosexuals are more educated and higher paid than their heterosexual counterparts. the average hetero indivdiual does not even have a BS. clearly, a professional, MD, PhD, JD, etc. is an extreme, as these make up very few of the population. it is at these extremes that the figures need to be studied because i know i'm not the only one who has noted the scarcity of homosexuals in medical school.

2) im in a liberal city, and my less than 1% brings down your 5% san fransisco statistic, if it is indeed correct. but needless to say, let's just play statistics here. nationally, i remember reading somewhere less than 3% of the nation are gay. urologists make up maybe...i dont konw, lets be nice and say 10% of doctors. 3% by 10%...that's a very low number, and we're being conservative.

3) i'm sorry my diction is a product of the people i'm around; its common to call people guys and gals. i'll refer to them as women if you'd like.

4) 10% women surgeons are lesbians...i'm not sure if i even need to discuss that as anyone reading it will look over that one twice.

5) i did not mean to belittle girls...sorry...women. women, for whatever reason, are not represented as diversely as men, although they are starting to even out. but it still is a priority for women to get married, have kids, and start a family, something men are more willing to defer. i don't think women are inferior (except when it comes to physical activity, sports; but that's another discussion) and can achieve success equal to men. but urology is surgical, which used to be a boy's club. it's a long residency, and women may give that up for sake of having a family. naturally their numbers are less. but when nearly half of med students are women, you can be sure that there will be women in urology as well.

for example; anywhere you go, everyone knows neurosurgery is men-dominated. it's a boy's club still, always has. but still, there are women in it, because, when half the people in medical school are women, you can be sure there's a woman motivated enough to make the necessary sacrifices to achieve it.

i'm sorry if i offended women, and gays and lesbians as well, i'm just trying to point out facts.

6) i'm not sure what prompted the PhD comment, but yes you are right. but i can tell you, my friends and i work a lot harder for the MD; our PhD wasn't that hard to achieve. Maybe it's just me, but i respect MDs over PhDs, because, well, MD's are harder to earn.

7) when i get my MD i'll call myself a doctor. i hope youre not insinuating that my thoughts are rubbish because i don't yet have the MD. and yes this is very provocative thinking, but please just consider my points.

all in all, women in urology, of course. gays? they make up a very small portion of the population. so its not hard to assume they make up a very small population of practicing doctors. but when you get to fields that are even smaller, like urology for instance, it's not a leap of logic to question if there are any.

neurosurgeons make up about 0.1% of all residents. you'd be hard pressed to find a gay individual in neurosurgery, if one even exists

could they exist? sure. do they? it's a very fair question, and in small fields like urology, an excellent question.
my answer - dont be surprised if you go your whole career without meeting one.


is that more diplomatic?

 

[toofache32]

3) you can quit calling people "girls" once they turn 16 or so....

And even younger in some states....

 

[f_w]

i hope youre not insinuating that my thoughts are rubbish because i don't yet have the MD. and yes this is very provocative thinking, but please just consider my points.

What points ?

Nothing much provocative about the ramblings of someone who tries to fill the dearth of statistical knowledge about an issue with his own prejudices and conjecture.

neurosurgeons make up about 0.1% of all residents. you'd be hard pressed to find a gay individual in neurosurgery, if one even exists

could they exist? sure. do they? it's a very fair question, and in small fields like urology, an excellent question.
my answer - dont be surprised if you go your whole career without meeting one.

I have never cared about the sexual orientation of any of the surgeons I have worked with, nor do I have a 'gaydar' that would have given me that bit of information automatically. I believe that your ramblings about this issue fall under the category of 'unknown unknowns' (in the classification of D Rumsfeld)

Socially, I do know a couple of general surgeons and an orthopod who are gay, but I wouldn't know why that has anything to do with their professional life. The percentage of neuro, ortho or urologic surgeons who like men is not an 'excellent question', but rather an irrelevant one.

 

[M3goingon4]

fw...
dearth of statistical knowledge? i was very generous in my statistical conjectures. look them up yourself, the numbers are much more meager.

im not rambling, im answering a question...a question you were quick to shoot down.

what points? my point is very few gays in society. very few urologists. gay urologists? very very few, if any.
if you need me to break this down even further...try this, it's not controversial so it won't push that button, unless u'd rather push it yourself.

are there any chinese neurosurgeons with 14 letters in their first name? well, step 1, its wrong to judge, but the question was asked. are there people with 14 letter first names? sure, not many. Are there chinese people? Yes, they make up less than 3% of the population, tho the asian population is much higher in medicine. Now, i'm sorry if this sets things off, but chinese individuals generally have SHORT names. a 14 letter first name chinese individual is pretty rare. neurosurgeons are rare too. a 14 letter first name chinese neurosurgeon? highly unlikely, don't be surprised if you never meet one.

now, if your chinese and have 14 letters in your first name and are a brain surgeon...relax, i'm not calling or comparing you to a member of gay society. you are probably the only one in america. maybe the world? but you see where i'm getting at?

and sorry for using the word 'excellent'. i meant thought provoking, i see now it is misleading.

what people do in their own time is their business. but when someone spends the time to ask a question about them, at least answer it instead of casting off the question and responses. his question is relevant to its very core, tho perhaps immature. but if it bothers him, it's not your place to judge him or his views. just answer the question, which i tried to do.

i dont have an excellent gaydar, i dont classify surgeons, except for good, bad, hardass, nice guy, hot, not, etc. if i meet a gay doctor, i make note of it, but certainly don't judge him for his sexuality, but rather on his actions (not sexual).

 

[f_w]

What's your point ?

 

[M3goingon4]

you probably didn't do very well on your MCAT verbal; good thing youre good at bio and chem/physics. lucky for you there was no critical reading on the boards!

the question was are there women or gays in urology?
women, yes, not nearly as much as men, but yes, and you'll see them.
gays, very very few. you may never meet one (in urology that is).

i think everyone else reading these posts could have figured that one out.

better hit those SAT books...



i'm sorry, its so easy to spit out on these boards! i can see why you call people ignorant and homophobic while disparaging the question. damn it! there i go again. ok...no more...for now

 

[f_w]

the question was are there women or gays in urology?
women, yes, not nearly as much as men, but yes, and you'll see them.
gays, very very few. you may never meet one (in urology that is).

So many words, so little substance.

We know how many women there are in urology. We don't know how many gays, and no amount of speculation about the people in your neighbourhood and the surgeons you have met in your extensive career will change that.

(imho an openly gay urologist could probably build a flourishing practice in any of the major metro areas by specializing on urologic issues facing gay men. Given the general 'good ole boy' reputation of the specialty, I can imagine that some gay men will be uncomfortable discussing issues of sexual health with your run of the mill urologist. but this is pure speculation on my part.)

 

[M3goingon4]

eureka!

it's not your inability to comprehend, it's your selective comprehension! i do hope for your patients' sake you are not in a field that requires you to listen to your patients. (back ache!!??? METASTATIC BREAST CANCER!!!! oh...wait...you're a guy...who moved yesterday...still...BREAST CANCER!)

urology residents make up less than 1% of all MD residents. Gays make up less than 3% of the population. hmmmm.

Obviously statistics is not your forte. Go read up on it while you not listen to your patients, hehe.

as a side note, that's an interesting idea. a gay urologist working in a gay area specialized to gay issues. except emphasizing condom use to everyone yet seeing AIDS cases day in and day out would be like trying to get a thought across to you. but the money would be good. hmm...the cheap laughs are good too tho; i'll stick to the forum.

does anyone know of a major medical center that has established a gay urologist to cater to gay issues involving urology? seems like a private practice sort of thing. i know about 12 urology residents, none of them are being trained in a private practice setting.

oh wait! that must mean there's a subset of about 1000 residents in private practice because i've never heard of it. screw FRIEDA; 230 urology spots my ass.

btw, if i speculated on the national percentage of gay men based on my neighborhood, it'll be a helluva lot more than 3%. More like 13% Maybe even 23% but any educated, knowledgeable individual (no fw, go read the numbers) knows it's not that prevalent.

 

[f_w]

a gay urologist working in a gay area specialized to gay issues. except emphasizing condom use to everyone yet seeing AIDS cases day in and day out would be like trying to get a thought across to you. but the money would be good. hmm...the cheap laughs are good too tho; i'll stick to the forum.

Your exposure to the field of urology seems to be minimal.

Your level of maturity is frightening.

 

[M3goingon4]

a doctor unaware of the issues of AIDS and other STDs in homosexual populations has got a lot of work ahead of him.

i'm gonna take that as a yes on being in a field with very little patient contact

 

[f_w]

a doctor unaware of the issues of AIDS and other STDs in homosexual populations has got a lot of work ahead of him.

STDs and AIDS are a sliver of the issues a urologist including one specializing on the gay population sees.

i'm gonna take that as a yes on being in a field with very little patient contact

A specialty with plenty of urologist (and other surgeon) contact...

 

[fourthyear]

Arthur...

2. You clearly are not involved in clinical medicine right now, or you would realize how unlikely it is that a doctor enjoys thinking about any of their patients in a sexual way. We're way to busy thinking about other things, and even if we weren't, you only have to spend a few shifts in a medical clinic to realize how sexually uninteresting everyone is when they are talking about their medical problems. That includes when I've rotated through sexual dysfunction clinics, where we focus on the patient's sex life. - end Quote

Ha Ha! So true! Most patients seeing a urologist are at least over 45, most more likely above 60's - have you seen the average 45-70 y/o man naked? Not exactly porn-star material - fat and wrinkly. I can't imagine even having any sexual appreciation for examining this body part in most patients. Maybe you'll realize this when, as a man, you do your OB rotation and see how attractive you find 400 lb naked women, old women with prolapse, or even young cute girls with smelly yeast infections or STD's. People go to a doctor for a medical problem and doctors are in the mindset to treat a medical problem - whether it's examining their heart or examining their private parts, there's really nothing sexual about it ever.

And to this guy who thinks gay men just don't achieve higher education...no, I don't know many openly gay surgeons, but it's more likely that they just don't broadcast their personal life to everyone, since surgeons (and probably all physicians in comparison to the general public) tend to be more conservative and maybe even less accepting of alternative lifestyles, it would probably not be of benefit professionally for these guys to advertize their sexual preference - especially if they were a urologist it could be a bad move in a conservative area to make too much noise about it - plenty of homophobic patients like you would choose not to go to him.

 

[M3goingon4]

yes it is a sliver. but when more patients have it, its a bigger sliver.
haha it even rhymed.

hmm, i'm gonna guess radiology? maybe pathology. you are clearly unfit for listening to other people; probably better off getting yelled at by doctors who do deal with patients (i know, radiologists generally get along with doctors...except in ortho and neurosurgery)

 

[M3goingon4]

homophobic? me!?
i don't judge people. i judge actions (again not sexual). just because i say there are few if any gay urologists you call me homophobic? i'm going to go back to the nobel prize winning line..."there are no gay chinese men with 15 letters in their first name practicing ophthalmology"

oh no! not only am i homophobic, i'm racist too! and biased against people with long names!

people, there's racism, and there's statistics. african americans are much more likely to die from AIDS than their white counterparts (i believe males 25-49). So when I see a thirty year old african american in my office, you better believe i'm going to check his file thoroughly for AIDS so he doesn't become a statistic. Is it racist? maybe.

Similarly, gays report (median or mean, don't remember) sleeping with over 100 individuals a year, data from the 1980s, with trends showing increasing promiscuity. number 1 method of HIV spread? anal sex between two men. over 1/4 of gay men have AIDS. is it wrong to delve into this as their primary care practitioner? i think it's playing the numbers.

homophobic implies i want to kill/harm them. the sad fact is, AIDS does (well, technically an opportunistic infection potentiated by no immune system). i use this knowledge when meeting a gay patient in the hospital to help them.

if you are walking through 90210, or your hometown sidewalk, do you look behind your shoulder every thirty seconds? would you in harlem? you bet i would. don't call me racist against black people just because theyre the majority in that area, or sickened by poor people (and i am...by the ones who smell bad, but that's a visceral reaction, can't do anything about that), call me afraid from being robbed, given the higher rates of crime in the area.

true racism/homophobia is hating an INDIVIDUAL for his background through preconceived notions. i don't hate the INDIVIDUAL, i put his life context of where he lies in the statistics, and then find out whether he's a statstic overall.

after all, the majority of people are a statistic, or it wouldnt be called a statistic in the first place!

and finally, i do know they achieve higher education. i do want to see their numbers in the extremes however...JD, MD, PhD. higher education in this country implies a BS, which the majority of members of this forum are far beyond. Yes we know the average, but what about a fair study of extremes?

Look at this example; most studies analyzing income note that gay couples bring in more money than straight couples. well, men earn more than women, gay or not. so naturally, gay couples, consisting of two men, would bring in more! and yes, there have been studies looking at the individual which clearly illustrate the disparity between single gay men income and single straight men income is often overstated. other studies maintain that it is true. just saying that one cannot accept a study at facevalue, but rather truly analyze what it's saying and how they gathered their data.
...as an example, i can say india is the unsafest country in the world healthwise since the number of people with AIDS is highest in India. However, as a percent of their population, its barely 1/10th of the total. In certain African countries, it's approaching nearly 40%, and certain areas even higher!
Meet ten people in India, one has AIDS, meet two in Africa, and it's almost a coinflip.

...welcome to statistics 101

 

[syperidot]

Hi guys,
I'm an MSIII, almost MS IV female medical student and considering urology. I definitely feel the male dominated vibe that comes from urology and have doubts...time and again.
But Did you ever think about the fact that many men are homophobes and many get disgusted by idea of man on man contact. So it's funny why a male would prefer going to a male urologist to get his testicles and penis examined and felt up by, not to mention also having another man's finger jammed up his butt. So can someone explain to me why going to a female urologist is akward??? Plus from my experience, I feel females, including myself bring a more gentle and more human touch to urology. In fact, just this past friday on an OR consult, I saw one of my chief urology resident jam a foley up a man's penis, which he was so proud of at the end of the procedure (patient was under anesthesia thank god). He told me, "Don't try this at home ."....I wasn't too impressed at all...what if he had created a new tract...he got lucky this time...

 

[f_w]

Congratulations for resurrecting one of the dumbest threads on this forum ever.

 

[DrDre311]

Congratulations for resurrecting one of the dumbest threads on this forum ever.

I must agree...that was ten minutes of my life I'll never get back. Since now it won't die, I'll try to answer the resurrector's question:

I've never been to a urologist, and I personally would be fine with a female uro, but some guys might prefer a male uro just because that guy probably has BPH just like his patients, might have some personal experience with ED, or whatever other bread-and-butter uro issues. So instead of "Most of my patients do well with this treatment" you might get "not only do most of my patients do well with this, but it's worked well for me" and vice versa.

Of course that's an overly simplistic view of it and urologic surgeons definitely do way more than just penis stuff so this is a small facet of the situation.

When it comes to a man-part medical field, in a very basic fashion having man-parts may help with initial credibility/trust in some patients' eyes--not that that's fair, but I think it makes more sense than thinking about who's feeling you up and sticking their fingers up your butt.

I think this is analogous to why OB is female-dominated--a pregnant woman might be a little more inclined to trust/feel comfortable with a female OB who has actually been through pregnancy/childbirth.

Just something that helps the average patient relate to the doctor. Very basic, not intellectual, and certainly not absolute.

And please, let's not even bring up "the gays." At least let that part of this thread remain buried.

 

[Chizwheel]

for f*cks sake, just end this thread already. People will do whatever they do for whatever reasons they want to do it. Either you get it or you don't. Stop asking why would someone do this or that. Who the f*** cares. Just do what you want and quit asking stupid questions.

 

[Long Dong]

for f*cks sake, just end this thread already. People will do whatever they do for whatever reasons they want to do it. Either you get it or you don't. Stop asking why would someone do this or that. Who the f*** cares. Just do what you want and quit asking stupid questions.

The hottest girl in my class went into urology.

 

[gerido]

How common is it for women or gays to enter urology?

No offense with the question, I'm interested in learning more about the demographics of those entering the field.

what an odd question

 

[classof2011]

if you are walking through 90210, or your hometown sidewalk, do you look behind your shoulder every thirty seconds? would you in harlem? you bet i would. don't call me racist against black people just because theyre the majority in that area, or sickened by poor people (and i am...by the ones who smell bad, but that's a visceral reaction, can't do anything about that), call me afraid from being robbed, given the higher rates of crime in the area.

true racism/homophobia is hating an INDIVIDUAL for his background through preconceived notions. i don't hate the INDIVIDUAL, i put his life context of where he lies in the statistics, and then find out whether he's a statstic overall.

after all, the majority of people are a statistic, or it wouldnt be called a statistic in the first place!

and finally, i do know they achieve higher education. i do want to see their numbers in the extremes however...JD, MD, PhD. higher education in this country implies a BS, which the majority of members of this forum are far beyond. Yes we know the average, but what about a fair study of extremes?

Look at this example; most studies analyzing income note that gay couples bring in more money than straight couples. well, men earn more than women, gay or not. so naturally, gay couples, consisting of two men, would bring in more! and yes, there have been studies looking at the individual which clearly illustrate the disparity between single gay men income and single straight men income is often overstated. other studies maintain that it is true. just saying that one cannot accept a study at facevalue, but rather truly analyze what it's saying and how they gathered their data.
...as an example, i can say india is the unsafest country in the world healthwise since the number of people with AIDS is highest in India. However, as a percent of their population, its barely 1/10th of the total. In certain African countries, it's approaching nearly 40%, and certain areas even higher!
Meet ten people in India, one has AIDS, meet two in Africa, and it's almost a coinflip.

...welcome to statistics 101[/QUOTE]


Now how in the world are you gonna advise everyone to examine studies carefully, yet hold your purse in harlem? or even make an ignorant claim that the first thing you think of when a black person walks into your clinic is AIDS????? What the He11!!.....I could see if you noticed questionable symptons such as loos of body mass, opportunistic infections, IV drug use...etc. But to use statistics alone not only shows ignorance (to your patients) but also poor clinical skills.

And the claim you made earlier about gay men educational level is clearly in error. Most gays (esp men) prefer higher quality material compared to their heterosexual counterparts....And as a result, those materials require income, which in turn requires higher education....Look at any major city GAY neighborhoods and you will see that they occupy some of the best districts, this is evident in DC, NYC, Philly, LA, Miami, Boston (south end), San Francisco (Castro..lookem up!).....YOu best believe that most of them aren't doing that with simply a college education. I think your claim can be countered given several examples. What I gave above is just instantaneous evidence in eyesight.

By the way, would you look behind your shoulder and clench your purse if you seen a Black man at night walking near you (heres the kicker...)..in the middle of beverly hills?

I dont think it has much to do with Harlem, atleast not as much as your perception of black people, or gay people for that matter. YOu have other issues simmering.

 

[twostep376]

gay people generally don't achieve the same educational success that straight people do.

that's a bold statement, i know. but living near (literally a few blocks) from a very gay neighborhood, and watching them day in and out, very few attain high education; as a matter of fact i'm not even sure theyre capable of it. but that's a totally different issue; keep reading.

now someone's going to point out some statistic that theyre more educated than average, but remember; we're doctors; and i'm talking high professional degrees like MD's.

in my very large medical school class, there are only two homosexuals (less than 1% vs. the national average of like 2%). and its not a huge leap to assume men at this level have attained a strong sense of self and maturity as to not "live a lie" and all that stuff.

urologists are not average. theyre intelligent doctors, and homosexuals rarely make it this high in education. educated? if you call a BA an education. but MD? more likely to have girls than gays

now one of you is gonna say i know a gay urologist and be "that guy" but for the 99% rest of you reading this. if youre on this forum, ur prolly somewhat considering this field, and have probably talked to many surgeons. have u ever met a gay surgeon? ive shadowed, done research, talked to so many doctors at least five hospitals in three different cities and came across MAYBE 1 doctor (not my place to judge or ask, but its impossible not to make note)

so women in urology? sure; 40-50% of med students are women, and a few guaranteed will be smart enough to make it that far (no offense, surgery still retains a little bit of that good ol' men's club; not as much, but a little). but gays? they dont even represent their national numbers by percentage in med school; and when maybe 5% of all doctors are urologist...and fewer than normal number of gays in medicine to begin with...well;ur talkin less than...statistically, .0005 of all urologists.

so that one dude who's gonna respond in protest with an example that he personally knows of...that guy is prolly the only homosexual in all of urology, or maybe one other.

so, in recap...women? sure, plenty even. it's not even a question really. gays? very very few, if any

sry; someone had to say this, might as well be me

This is one of the most insulting posts I have ever read on this forum.

What I will say is 100% based on data:

Gay men have moved to large cities and are more highly educated than are heterosexual men.

If you want to read the full publication:

Brothers and Sisters of Lesbians, Gay Men, and Bisexuals as a Demographic Comparison Group

An Innovative Research Methodology to Examine Social Change

Esther D. Rothblum University of Vermont
Kimberly F. Balsam
University of Washington
Ruth M. Mickey
University of Vermont

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]The Journal of Applied Behavioral Science, Vol. 40, No. 3, 283-301 (2004)[/SIZE].
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-2] DOI: 10.1177/0021886304266877[/SIZE].
​

If you didn't know that we're "capable" of it, you clearly don't know very many of us.

 

[COMBAT MEDIC172]

I work in a urology clinic and there are seven males and three female doctors. One of the females is in charge of the department. I also noticed that in the last couple of months there has been several women medical students rotating through.

 

[TexasStudentDoc]

Lord help me, but reading this discussion made me "hopping mad" to quote my grandmother, but I realize that #1) nobody would ever inform you of their sexual orientation if you present yourself as a raging homophobic *****. Also, how presumptuous to think that your ATTENDINGS or RESIDENT surgeons would owe you any insight into their private lives! #2) you're probably one of those "thick panus" types that make being a urology student oh so much fun, circ'd but still enough smegma to make a sandwich. BTW: trick to playing 'find the penis' for a difficult foley is two hot nurses (hot to the patient, not to you) lifting on the suprapubic panus, lots of those prepackaged iodine tampons, and pushing with all your strength towards the pubic bone. Keep in mind, these guys haven't seen their penis for years, much less had anybody touch it; be gentle.
#3) Why wouldn't a gay man or a woman want to go into urology? I mean you get to do the coolest surgeries, make a genuine quantifiable improvement in the lives of your patients, work with the nicest people in healthcare, fix congenital anomalies, and yeah help grandma and grampa keep things going in the bedroom. I mean seriously, how cool is that!?
#4) The whole 1% statistic is a load of crap. The vast majority of gay and lesbian students are not out in medical school, and reading this thread would give you a pretty good idea of why.

So in summary-- Don't worry about who your colleagues are doing what with behind closed doors unless its with you, your wife or your husband. And to all my fellow Uro-aspirants GOOD LUCK!

 

[former military]

i have worked with female urologists for 15 years. It is incredibly rare that someone switches to another male urologist or doesn't want to see them.
I can remember it only a handful of times.

What an epic thread, almost as good as "Help, I broke my pubic bone".

Personally, I would never see a female Urologist.

 

[rmbsstock]

Sorry, I am deleting my entry.. It seems that some are not interested in discussing serious issues in a serious matter.

 

[Jwax]

So? I'm just saying I wouldn't see one, that's all.

Not at all unlike women who would never see a male ob/gyn. Not a big deal at all.

[deleted post, decided to ask a few urology residents at my school instead]

 

[Pkboi24]

This thread is so gay.

 

[Substance]

The hottest girl in my class went into urology.

You can't say that without providing pics.

 

[Lefty Doodle]

Can't speak for gays, but the percentage of women residents and applying is provided by FREIDA and the AUA. According to FREIDA, about 14% of the 1000 or so urology residents and about 5% of faculty members are female, and according to the AUA, between 60-70% of females match each year.

Thanks for answering the question instead of ripping into the poster, I was curious too.

 

[leaning]

I know this is an older thread, but I Googled today specifically looking for a gay urologist. Why? I've had "chronic pain" for over 10 years centralized behind my pubic bone somewhere (but feels like it rib cage down). I've been seen by many urologists and GI people and it's just not been a great experience. Some observations:
1) They are embarrassed to touch/rub/poke you "there". I find myself repeatedly assuring them that it's OK to touch me and to feel around, but it's cursory if at all. Just sucks because I can tell in an instance that it's just another wasted trip and more wasted money.

2) They act like they are in a huge hurry to see other patients instead of the patient that's in front of them. They want you to be there 30 minutes before the appointment, you wait in the waiting room for 30minutes to an hour, they call you back to the room where you wait for 30 more minutes, the doctor rushes in, spends 5 minutes logging into the computer and reading up on the nurse notes, asks you what's bothering you, gets you up on the table, has you breath while he/she listens, maybe one poke in the gut, and then OK, we're done. This has not been one isolated case; it is EVERY single urologist I have been to. And it sucks.

I know this is a student forum, so this is how I would have liked to see at least one of the doctors do it (maybe you can go out there, be the one, and once word gets out, people will be coming for miles to see you):

All right, I am going to exam you an this is going to be the most thorough exam you've ever been through. Have you ever worked on you car engine and dropped a bolt down into there. You don't hear it fall out, you can't see where it is, so you just have to get your hands in there and feel around, push/pull/poke until you find it. That's what I will be doing front and back. I'm going to find that damn bolt. I am going to start on the outside and work toward the center of the pain. To start, you push on the pain yourself, poke yourself hard until you think it's the center. If it's spread out everywhere, let me know. Everywhere you feel pain. I'm going to use a marker and annotate those areas. OK, I am now going to do a deep massage type poking and you tell me if I've got the spot. Since I am massaging around, you might get aroused. That's just your body responding to all the stimulation. It doesn't bother me and I hope it doesn't bother you. OK, pushing on back of legs, behind knees, thighs, under scrotum feeling not on the skin, but digging deep feeling each muscle fiber and part (so you really have to know the anatomy cold, because it's a long list of stuff you are eliminating), scrotum, penis, pubic bone, below rib cage, sides, belly button, bladder. OK, now here comes the deep stuff. I'm trying to grab your prostate through your skin, that's how invasive and deep this is going, feeling each part. OK, front's all marked up, let's do the back. Middle of back down, and back of legs up, again, deep probing, massaging. OK, now an internal exam. Not just a quick poke. I'm going to squeeze/poke your insides, going through each part.

OK. "Touch exam" is done. I'm going to send you down for ultrasound of the entire front and back that I've touched, together with a TRUS so I can get a picture from the inside. You will also get a WBC scan to highlight any areas that are inflamed or infected.

Here's on my list of diagnosis that I am trying to rule out: stones (kidney, prostate, scrotum, pancreas, etc.); infection (epididymis, vas deferens, ureters, etc.), tears/torsions, clogged blood vessels, referred pain from spine problems, sexual diseases, parasites, etc. etc.

So, why am I posting in this thread? Because I am actually seeking out a gay or female doctor, because hopefully, they aren't so timid "down there". I just feel that if people's junk is your specialty, you should be all up in it. Bodies are only so big with only so many parts in that specialty, so I'd like to think it's the job to know the entire list of parts, and the constantly evolving list of the medical issues associated with those parts.

If you are a doctor who already examines like above, or knows someone who does, and really knows their stuff, please send me their information. I'll drive or fly anywhere just so I can get one day without (or with less) pain. A long post, I know, but maybe there is something here someone can use. I know that there are other forums/sites where there are tons of people who would appreciate this same type of care.

Regards,
leaning

 

[cpants]

I know this is an older thread, but I Googled today specifically looking for a gay urologist. Why? I've had "chronic pain" for over 10 years centralized behind my pubic bone somewhere (but feels like it rib cage down). I've been seen by many urologists and GI people and it's just not been a great experience. Some observations:
1) They are embarrassed to touch/rub/poke you "there". I find myself repeatedly assuring them that it's OK to touch me and to feel around, but it's cursory if at all. Just sucks because I can tell in an instance that it's just another wasted trip and more wasted money.

2) They act like they are in a huge hurry to see other patients instead of the patient that's in front of them. They want you to be there 30 minutes before the appointment, you wait in the waiting room for 30minutes to an hour, they call you back to the room where you wait for 30 more minutes, the doctor rushes in, spends 5 minutes logging into the computer and reading up on the nurse notes, asks you what's bothering you, gets you up on the table, has you breath while he/she listens, maybe one poke in the gut, and then OK, we're done. This has not been one isolated case; it is EVERY single urologist I have been to. And it sucks.

I know this is a student forum, so this is how I would have liked to see at least one of the doctors do it (maybe you can go out there, be the one, and once word gets out, people will be coming for miles to see you):

All right, I am going to exam you an this is going to be the most thorough exam you've ever been through. Have you ever worked on you car engine and dropped a bolt down into there. You don't hear it fall out, you can't see where it is, so you just have to get your hands in there and feel around, push/pull/poke until you find it. That's what I will be doing front and back. I'm going to find that damn bolt. I am going to start on the outside and work toward the center of the pain. To start, you push on the pain yourself, poke yourself hard until you think it's the center. If it's spread out everywhere, let me know. Everywhere you feel pain. I'm going to use a marker and annotate those areas. OK, I am now going to do a deep massage type poking and you tell me if I've got the spot. Since I am massaging around, you might get aroused. That's just your body responding to all the stimulation. It doesn't bother me and I hope it doesn't bother you. OK, pushing on back of legs, behind knees, thighs, under scrotum feeling not on the skin, but digging deep feeling each muscle fiber and part (so you really have to know the anatomy cold, because it's a long list of stuff you are eliminating), scrotum, penis, pubic bone, below rib cage, sides, belly button, bladder. OK, now here comes the deep stuff. I'm trying to grab your prostate through your skin, that's how invasive and deep this is going, feeling each part. OK, front's all marked up, let's do the back. Middle of back down, and back of legs up, again, deep probing, massaging. OK, now an internal exam. Not just a quick poke. I'm going to squeeze/poke your insides, going through each part.

OK. "Touch exam" is done. I'm going to send you down for ultrasound of the entire front and back that I've touched, together with a TRUS so I can get a picture from the inside. You will also get a WBC scan to highlight any areas that are inflamed or infected.

Here's on my list of diagnosis that I am trying to rule out: stones (kidney, prostate, scrotum, pancreas, etc.); infection (epididymis, vas deferens, ureters, etc.), tears/torsions, clogged blood vessels, referred pain from spine problems, sexual diseases, parasites, etc. etc.

So, why am I posting in this thread? Because I am actually seeking out a gay or female doctor, because hopefully, they aren't so timid "down there". I just feel that if people's junk is your specialty, you should be all up in it. Bodies are only so big with only so many parts in that specialty, so I'd like to think it's the job to know the entire list of parts, and the constantly evolving list of the medical issues associated with those parts.

If you are a doctor who already examines like above, or knows someone who does, and really knows their stuff, please send me their information. I'll drive or fly anywhere just so I can get one day without (or with less) pain. A long post, I know, but maybe there is something here someone can use. I know that there are other forums/sites where there are tons of people who would appreciate this same type of care.

Regards,
leaning

Please spare us your fantasies.

We are "all up in it" when it's appropriate. The reason these doctors aren't examining you thoroughly is twofold. Number one: you are probably creeping them out with your requests. This isn't a massage parlor bro. Number two: A physical exam is unlikely to be diagnostic/enlightening on someone with chronic idiopathic pelvic pain, especially someone who has seen by many specialists before. You probably need to see a physical therapist and/or psychotherapist. Neither of these issues has anything to do with the urologist's gender or sexual orientation.

 

[jupiterianvibe]

Please spare us your fantasies.

We are "all up in it" when it's appropriate. The reason these doctors aren't examining you thoroughly is twofold. Number one: you are probably creeping them out with your requests. This isn't a massage parlor bro. Number two: A physical exam is unlikely to be diagnostic/enlightening on someone with chronic idiopathic pelvic pain, especially someone who has seen by many specialists before. You probably need to see a physical therapist and/or psychotherapist. Neither of these issues has anything to do with the urologist's gender or sexual orientation.

You got trolololed.

 

[leaning]

Please spare us your fantasies.

We are "all up in it" when it's appropriate. The reason these doctors aren't examining you thoroughly is twofold. Number one: you are probably creeping them out with your requests. This isn't a massage parlor bro. Number two: A physical exam is unlikely to be diagnostic/enlightening on someone with chronic idiopathic pelvic pain, especially someone who has seen by many specialists before. You probably need to see a physical therapist and/or psychotherapist. Neither of these issues has anything to do with the urologist's gender or sexual orientation.

I like that you called it a fantasy; that comment validates exactly what I have been experiencing (but I want to find that rare doctor who proves that's not the case everywhere).

Your experiences seem to have been better than all mine. What urologist, physical therapist, and/or psychotherapist have you used that you would recommend?
And if you read my post above, I have barely been touched by anyone and the entire visits last 5 minutes tops. So, you say that "we are ALL up in it". So, the quick get-in-get-out, timid exam is what I should be expecting from all urologists? Who do you recommend and I will give him/her a call. Regards, leaning

 

[smq123]

This thread, which wasn't a great one to begin with, has now gone off in a totally unrelated direction.

Furthermore, SDN is not for clinica advice. leaning - please speak to your primary care provider about finding a specialist that you feel comfortable with. Closing thread.