Wondering if I ever have a shot at being a doctor

[ejl2191985]

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Longtime reader. Question comes from me having an unorthodox life timeline including putting myself through college and a spotty work history through my twenties.

I made a second account because I wanted to include some personal info. The amount of info contributors have added to SDN is great, but wanted to selfishly step forward to ask for personal advice for once since I assume my life experiences may hurt me if I decide to try to pursue my dream.

So here goes. After H.S. I put myself through college, working full-time while attending p/t. It took 6 years. ~3.8GPA in CC first, and at Uni ~3.8GPA in Econ from a top ~40-50. I started out putting myself through school when I was living in my car. It was tough. I'm the only one in my family to have a college degree.

Graduated after the financial crisis and had a year+ gap before I found a real "career" job. I ended up doing sort of well when I did, ~doubling my salary in under a year', approaching 6 figs. Saved--to me what was--gobs of money. I was a software consultant. Was unfulfilled and quit after a while to pursue other dreams I have had.

One of the primary reasons I quit was to do something rather unique that may be looked down on--but I don't believe it should be--I was one of the top-ranked players in the world at a particular computer game. I tried pursuing that for about a year. This might sound like an imprudent career choice, and that it may be--but look, I was one of the top ranked players, I'm super competitive and this gave me an outlet for that passion I have. Besides, there are tournaments paying out millions of dollars (players making over 1-5++MM a year). Anyways, it didn't work out as I had hoped--I mean, making millions a year playing a video game is pretty competitive. But this work gap is really what I'm most worried about.

But to make me look like even worse a candidate, in addition to the above, here I am, and today I'm 30, having a blast living overseas. This surely appears as I'm spoiled compared to the lives of other med school candidates, which I don't disagree with. At the very least I have paid every dime of my own way. I mean I was living in a broken down car at the age of 18.

So here's the thing with all of that. For me, now that I went out into the world, realized I'm smart and capable and made some money, gave myself a break... I mean, being a doctor is always what I wanted to be. I just never thought I was "good enough." I had horribly low self esteem when I was 18. I went through a lot of physical and emotional abuse growing up and it has taken me a lot of my twenties to work through it, both in the sense of earning enough money to have shelter and health insurance, but also in the sense of rebuilding my own self worth, which is really most important. I really needed to teach myself how to believe in myself, and giving myself the opportunities I mentioned above has been a big part of that.

I really want and need to get clinical experience first, that much is obvious. I plan on becoming an EMT for a couple years, and then doing something like joining the Peace Corps in a clinical position for 2 more years --well, that's what I'm brainstorming in my head (does this sound reasonable?). I do really do need to find out if this is right for me. I have volunteered and worked as a math and writing tutor a lot, and helping people is fulfilling to me, so I look forward to it for its own sake, but I know my drive will keep me thirsty for something more challenging, especially when it is pursuing my lifelong dream. I just don't want to put myself in a position to pursue something with no hope for something to soak my passion and energy into in the long-term.

Also, to be clear, there are so many good options out there that in terms of money or lifestyle are better than med school. I don't have any misconception that this is in any way the "right" thing to do when it comes to those concerns. Running the numbers on everything... programming vs med school... for a 30 y/o the monetary payoff is tragically skewed towards programming as the better option for someone my age. Consider work/life balance and it's a no-brain'er.

So in summary, what I'm asking and worried about is that even if I got a high score on the MCAT, spent 2-3 years as an EMT and then 2-3 years as a PC volunteer (or something along these lines), and then applied to post-bacc programs, those programs and/or presumably medical schools down the road would still be weary of accepting a candidate with my life experiences. And for good reason. Where I am coming from, is that I am finally at a place in life where I am proud of myself, and I am realizing that there's no reason I should not give myself the opportunity to be what I always dreamed of myself being, but never thought I could. Maybe that sounds hokey, I don't care. I went through more than most people and came out a better person because of it, but it took me a lot of time in my twenties to rebuild my self-worth. I just don't know what med school and post-bacc program adcoms are like. Also, I don't know myself with certainty if I would really be a good fit. I need to figure that out, but I don't want to waste a bunch of time pursuing something I would be turned away from. So what should I expect? What would make me look like a person who would stay committed to the profession? What should I do to remedy any other concerns?

 

[Ad2b]

Do you recognize the name Midwinter or Vodka? or Manno or Alterac?

I would start with coursework, the traditional premed stuff: gen chem, bio, orgo, biochem, physics, psych/soc. Take this path one step at a time. Take those courses, or if they seem really, really boring, take the upper division science courses instead namely: genetics, immuno, neuro, physiology, etc. You need to show the adcoms that you can handle the hard sciences NOW not that you could 5 years ago or whenever...

You have some good ideas re: EMT as that will get you hands on with the patients but I'd have to ask, you don't need 5 years (2 EMT + courses + Peace Corps) to show initiative and interest. Do EMT with shadowing or volunteering ... and take the premed coursework, an MCAT prep course and you'll be fine.

You're ONLY 30 ... many of us on here vaguely remember 30 and we're plugging along just fine. Go for it!

 

[shaggybill]

I was 30 when I started, and there were plenty of students older than me in my class. You're not in as bad of a position as you seem to be thinking

I would skip the EMT and Peace Corps route unless that is something you just really want to do. If you're doing it mostly for app-padding, it's not necessary. The problem with going the EMT route is once you start another job, find a groove, and make new friends in a somewhat medically-oriented world, it might prove to be more difficult to go back to school than you think. Especially if it involves any sort of "settling down." I would start by taking science classes, namely all the pre-recs that you'll need to apply. I'd do a solid two years of 75:25 ratio of science:non-science classes before applying. In the summers, get your clinical and volunteer experiences. Like I said, you're not in that bad of a position. Just take your science classes, do pretty well on the MCAT, and apply in Fall 2017.

 

[dorothyntoto]

Let's see... I didn't see any 'I was addicted to heroin and a prostitute'... so you're probably fine... Having a different path in life doesn't rule you out of medical school... sometimes it even makes it easier...

 

[ejl2191985]

Let's see... I didn't see any 'I was addicted to heroin and a prostitute'... so you're probably fine... Having a different path in life doesn't rule you out of medical school... sometimes it even makes it easier...

ha ha no, nothing even remotely like that.

 

[Edv14]

If I were you I would do a post-bacc (self designed or a program) to complete your pre-req courses. While you're doing it, make sure to get some research experience (check with your school's career services center / pre-med advisor), clinical volunteer experience, and then do as well as possible on the MCAT. With a 3.8 GPA, a good MCAT, and interesting background, I don't see a problem at all.

 

[Edv14]

By the way, there is no reason you have to apply to a formal post-bacc ... you can complete the same courses at a university on your schedule, and still benefit from the opportunities (i.e., affiliations with med schools for research experience, etc.) that other students do. Once back in the states you literally could start as early as this fall.

 

[dorothyntoto]

I didn't do a formal post-bacc... it's way cheaper not to... unless you would have to for some reason, you can just take bunches of courses...

 

[ejl2191985]

I was 30 when I started, and there were plenty of students older than me in my class. You're not in as bad of a position as you seem to be thinking

I would skip the EMT and Peace Corps route unless that is something you just really want to do. If you're doing it mostly for app-padding, it's not necessary. The problem with going the EMT route is once you start another job, find a groove, and make new friends in a somewhat medically-oriented world, it might prove to be more difficult to go back to school than you think. Especially if it involves any sort of "settling down." I would start by taking science classes, namely all the pre-recs that you'll need to apply. I'd do a solid two years of 75:25 ratio of science:non-science classes before applying. In the summers, get your clinical and volunteer experiences. Like I said, you're not in that bad of a position. Just take your science classes, do pretty well on the MCAT, and apply in Fall 2017.

Seeing this being said by someone who has been on here 10+ years is very encouraging. Thanks to everyone who has replied as well.

I do actually want to become an EMT and PC volunteer. I understand your point about making the primary objective to go back to school, though. Going back to school is something I also actually "just really want to do." Science is something I enjoy a lot, and as weird as it sounds I like the challenge of doing well on tests. Well, maybe I shouldn't say that -- I've been out of school a while so hopefully I can still crush it like I remember I used to 🙂

 

[ejl2191985]

Do you recognize the name Midwinter or Vodka? or Manno or Alterac?

I would start with coursework, the traditional premed stuff: gen chem, bio, orgo, biochem, physics, psych/soc. Take this path one step at a time. Take those courses, or if they seem really, really boring, take the upper division science courses instead namely: genetics, immuno, neuro, physiology, etc. You need to show the adcoms that you can handle the hard sciences NOW not that you could 5 years ago or whenever...

You have some good ideas re: EMT as that will get you hands on with the patients but I'd have to ask, you don't need 5 years (2 EMT + courses + Peace Corps) to show initiative and interest. Do EMT with shadowing or volunteering ... and take the premed coursework, an MCAT prep course and you'll be fine.

You're ONLY 30 ... many of us on here vaguely remember 30 and we're plugging along just fine. Go for it!

Thanks for the encouragement, and the advice. I do really appreciate it.

 

[Ad2b]

^^ BUT are you COD or Wow'd? 🙂

Good luck - you'll be fine; as an older, wiser person once told me: "Take what you like and leave the rest."

 

[Goro]

A few months ago I would have looked down upon a computer gamer, but learning that one can make a decent chunk of change, and seeing that colleges are now setting up majors and scholarships in computer gaming, I figure the world has moved on, and this might be worthwhile, but you'll need to explain it carefully in any app. Play up the rags to riches element.

It is crucial for you to do three things:
*Shadow doctors so you can see what their day is like.
*Do some non-clinical service to show off your altruism and humanism. if you're serious about the Peace Corps, then schools will be falling down at your feet.
*Dom some clinical volunteering to show Adcoms that you know what you're getting into, and that you really want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.

Answer is yes. Note: It's very easy to say "get a high score on MCAT"; doing is hard.
So in summary, what I'm asking and worried about is that even if I got a high score on the MCAT, spent 2-3 years as an EMT and then 2-3 years as a PC volunteer (or something along these lines), and then applied to post-bacc programs, those programs and/or presumably medical schools down the road would still be weary of accepting a candidate with my life experiences.



Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s; I graduated one last year at 50.
Where I am coming from, is that I am finally at a place in life where I am proud of myself, and I am realizing that there's no reason I should not give myself the opportunity to be what I always dreamed of myself being, but never thought I could. Maybe that sounds hokey, I don't care. I went through more than most people and came out a better person because of it, but it took me a lot of time in my twenties to rebuild my self-worth. I just don't know what med school and post-bacc program adcoms are like. Also, I don't know myself with certainty if I would really be a good fit. I need to figure that out, but I don't want to waste a bunch of time pursuing something I would be turned away from. So what should I expect? What would make me look like a person who would stay committed to the profession? What should I do to remedy any other concerns?[/QUOTE]

 

[Ad2b]

slightly off topic but:

If the game is World of Warcraft, and an individual plays at a very high end of the game (Midwinter, Vodka, Macabre, Reckoning, et al) it is very statistics driven; if you decrease one stat but increase the other, the question becomes: which is better for your particular point of the raid, which can also change mid-raid (from one encounter to the next)... and it is not just understanding character/racial aspects (because certain races in the game have better stats for certain talent - dwarves are the best mob tanks, night elves are better for casting, etc)... then there's add ons that have to be evaluated to pro/cons... and ... you get it. It's not just point and shoot... and yes, WoW players make a crap ton of money.

Sadly, this particular game has become more driven to "idiot easy" because most players wanted the "Cheat sheets" and "trophy for everyone" and did not want to spend the time evaluating all the derivatives of gear v stats v add ons v placement and positioning during an encounter...

Which kind of reminds me of those students who just study old exams instead of really learning the material.

But I digress. I just play to fish. 😉 and decompress.

 

[ejl2191985]

A few months ago I would have looked down upon a computer gamer, but learning that one can make a decent chunk of change, and seeing that colleges are now setting up majors and scholarships in computer gaming, I figure the world has moved on, and this might be worthwhile, but you'll need to explain it carefully in any app. Play up the rags to riches element.

I was a pretty good as a chess player in high school. If I had pursued that, would that be better? As a rhetorical question, why would being ranked highly in chess, or something else, maybe golf, or fencing, be seen as "better" than competitive gaming. One argument might be that if you tried to measure the general interest or competitiveness of each of these activities, one objective measure of those things could be the amount monetary capital injected by non-competitors... I think the world is moving on, but I can't control how other people feel about certain things. I don't want to derail my own thread too much, but I do think it's an important point to be made. Anyways, I only spent about a year on it.

It is crucial for you to do three things:
*Shadow doctors so you can see what their day is like.
*Do some non-clinical service to show off your altruism and humanism. if you're serious about the Peace Corps, then schools will be falling down at your feet.
*Dom some clinical volunteering to show Adcoms that you know what you're getting into, and that you really want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.

Thanks for the pointers. I need them and I do appreciate it. I did not know that PC volunteering was viewed THAT positively.

Answer is yes. Note: It's very easy to say "get a high score on MCAT"; doing is hard.
So in summary, what I'm asking and worried about is that even if I got a high score on the MCAT, spent 2-3 years as an EMT and then 2-3 years as a PC volunteer (or something along these lines), and then applied to post-bacc programs, those programs and/or presumably medical schools down the road would still be weary of accepting a candidate with my life experiences.

That's what I assumed. I believe you're saying yes, no matter how far down the line, it still will be questionable with regard to me as an applicant.

Also, I don't mean to sound offensively overconfident regarding the MCAT. I know it's supposed to be tough.

Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s; I graduated one last year at 50.

That's encouraging. I hope to continue the trend!

 

[Lord Boko]

My cousin went to medical school at 34 and there are tons of other people who have posted on this site about it so don't think you can't get in because of your age. Also, what game was it? I'm gonna hazard a guess that it was League of Legends?

 

[ejl2191985]

Not going to mention what game. Not that I'm not comfortable with connecting my story to my identity. Just not at the moment... and the post I made contained some personal info that I normally wouldn't throw out into the open.

 

[Remedium85]

I agree with what others have said on here, you don't necessarily need to be an EMT/Peace Corps volunteer for 5 years. Here's where things might kinda suck with the EMT thing, and this is coming from personal experience. I am a certified EMT, I also went through Paramedic school although I don't have the certificates for that. I guess it depends on where you live, but it was a pain in the A$$ to find a job with no experience. It's the whole "you need experience to get experience" thing. I would suggest that if you do take an EMT class, volunteer first either for a service or fire dept. It is a TON of fun when you're out running calls, but actually finding a paying full time job without volunteering is a pain. Might not be true for everyone, but it was for me. This could of course set you back some time, I believe I looked for a job for a solid year before going Paramedic, which of course sucks because your skills rot.
I'll be 30 this August, and I have felt the same way. Like I'm too old. Which my rational mind knows is nuts! I have also had an "unorthodox" young adulthood. I was a bartender for years, and I made GOOD money doing it! I have had the same doubts as you, but I know that if I would have pursued med school in my early 20's there's no WAY I would've done it. I just wasn't mature and responsible enough to handle it. So I always keep that in mind, one of the unique stand points coming from a non traditional student is that you have more life experience, it doesn't matter what kind of life experience, it has obviously brought you full circle to wanting to be a doctor. That is never a bad thing. Plus when you're interviewed, you have so much more to talk about and compare things to. I'm actually telling myself these things as I type my reply! Good luck! 🙂

 

[pageantry]

I did not know that PC volunteering was viewed THAT positively.

Not to derail, but I'm always surprised whenever I read the pro-Peace Corps common wisdom on here. When I was graduating, the general consensus was that it was an ill-conceived colonialist venture with a huge rape problem, which ultimately preys on developing countries and students with poor critical thinking skills.

Anyone else in their early thirties remember that? PC clean up their act since then? In fairness, my school was more-liberal-than-thou about a lot of things.

 

[Goro]

The hurdle to overcome is that most Adcom members will be people who are not computer-savvy like the average applicant, and thus may look down upon gaming as "childish" or negatively from the stereotypical view of gamers.

I was a pretty good as a chess player in high school. If I had pursued that, would that be better? As a rhetorical question, why would being ranked highly in chess, or something else, maybe golf, or fencing, be seen as "better" than competitive gaming. One argument might be that if you tried to measure the general interest or competitiveness of each of these activities, one objective measure of those things could be the amount monetary capital injected by non-competitors... I think the world is moving on, but I can't control how other people feel about certain things. I don't want to derail my own thread too much, but I do think it's an important point to be made. Anyways, I only spent about a year on it.

 

[ejl2191985]

Thanks for everyone's contributions. Right now I'm leaning planning to apply to Peace Corps, getting my EMT cert, and am leaning towards a second bachelors as opposed to a formal post-bacc, or a DIY post-bacc to get the pre-reqs. I'm a resident of Washington State, so I could go to UWashington. I should still have some financial aid left. I honestly don't know for sure which option is best for me -- it just seems like the best one at the moment.

 

[Ad2b]

2 bachelor's is worthless and ineffective. just take the prereqs....

 

[esob]

haha, clearly the game was League of Legends. Lightsludge, is that you? 🙂

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

Not to derail, but I'm always surprised whenever I read the pro-Peace Corps common wisdom on here. When I was graduating, the general consensus was that it was an ill-conceived colonialist venture with a huge rape problem, which ultimately preys on developing countries and students with poor critical thinking skills.

Anyone else in their early thirties remember that? PC clean up their act since then? In fairness, my school was more-liberal-than-thou about a lot of things.

(^^^^^My thoughts EXACTLY.)

But OP, if you're really passionate about the Peace Corps or some other long-term global health experience, then go for it. Although, I'm not sure what kind of clinical roles you'd be able to play without any sort of medical training. But I would imagine that just going as a volunteer would be looked upon somewhat highly by adcoms. One thing that surprised me in a recent med school interview: My interviewer immediately sat down with a written list of what he thought were the most interesting ECs on my application--and almost all the ones he chose were non-clinical! This isn't to discount the importance of clinical experience--you really do need to have it (through volunteering and ideally some shadowing). My point simply is that medical schools may be just as interested in things you've done that have nothing to do with medicine. Could this include competitive gaming? Sure, why not.