Wondering if my ECs will hold me back...all other things considered.

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

MedicalAuthor

Class of Twenty Seventeen
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
508
Reaction score
2
I'm an African-American male, grew up in DC and went to DC Public schools, graduated from Stanford in 2009 with a Human Biology degree and a 3.4 (it was an upward trend...started Junior year with a 2.8 and got between a 3.7 and a 4.0 until graduation). I didn't complete all requirements undergrad and am in a post-bac at SF State University. I've gotten an A in Calculus I, Organic Chem I, Physics I (was #5 in a class of 61, which will hopefully be shared in my committee letter), and both labs. I got a B in Cell Biology last semester, which I was bummed about, especially because it was one more class than everyone else in my Cohort was taking.

This semester, however, I completely plan to get a 4.0. I am taking Org Chem II, Physics II, Human Physiology, and labs for each.

As for ECs, I did a summer of research in 2007 on Myxococcus Xanthus where I helped make time-lapse movies and analyzed growth. In 2009, my senior year, I did research with another Stanford professor, about 100 hours worth, but it never really got off the ground (we were testing affects of ice melting on algae and our cultures from Antarctica weren't viable). Both of which I'm getting recommendations from (the latter I have other positive class experience with to pull from). Last summer I did the Pre-Medical Surgical Internship at UC Davis and did about 200 hours of shadowing surgeons, did a final presentation on burn surgery and skin grafting, attended various workshops where we learned surgical methods, and got over 90% in the 'course.'

Undergrad, I was president of my fraternity (Alpha Phi Alpha, and we did heavy community service at juvenile halls, old folks' homes, middle schools in East Palo Alto, etc), taught public speaking, was involved in NAACP, writing for a local newspaper, tutoring of middle school students, president of the Black Recruitment and Orientation Committee, and Program Manager of Black Community Services Center.

After graduation I went to work as a Project Assistant at a consulting firm for non-profits in San Francisco, where I got to interview parents and students at middle schools, interview HIV-positive patients about their experiences with their doctors, collect and analyze survey data, and help write reports. I worked there for about a year.

I am also a creative writer, have written 3 books (all unpublished) and independently traveled to Ecuador the summer of 2008 and lived with a village community on the Cayapas river for 7 weeks in order to learn their culture and for inspiration to write a book. I continue to write, and sold my first short story (very small sell) last week to Fiction365.com. I also blog for Scribophile.com and write children's stories for an iPad app launching soon (don't know if any of this matters, but wanted to give an idea of what I do with my life).

Currently I'm only focused on getting through this semester, studying for the MCAT starting mid-March, and taking the MCAT in July (it's a little late, I know, but it's my plan). I am, however, going to be shadowing the Chief of Surgery at UCSF (I wanted to get involved in his lab but he thinks it's too much to do while schooling full-time), and just got my volunteer badge.

I am confident in my grades and that I will prep well for the MCAT and do well (I do well on standardized tests and it helps that most of the material I'm getting in my current classes). This post is because I'm a little worried about my ECs (not much clinical/hospital experience, though I've done enough research to know I don't like research and my experience at UC Davis solidified my interest in surgery/emergency medicine/being a doctor, as I was unsure coming out of college...hence the time off the medical track), am wondering if people think I am severely lacking in this area (let's just consider I do really well this semester and on the MCAT), and if there's anything they suggest I get involved in between now and application time (considering my courseload).

I'd appreciate not telling me to wait until next year unless you *really* think I have no chance. I am determined to apply this year and would like advice on making myself the best candidate for such.

Members don't see this ad.
 
I'm an African-American male, grew up in DC and went to DC Public schools, graduated from Stanford in 2009 with a Human Biology degree and a 3.4 (it was an upward trend...started Junior year with a 2.8 and got between a 3.7 and a 4.0 until graduation). I didn't complete all requirements undergrad and am in a post-bac at SF State University. I've gotten an A in Calculus I, Organic Chem I, Physics I (was #5 in a class of 61, which will hopefully be shared in my committee letter), and both labs. I got a B in Cell Biology last semester, which I was bummed about, especially because it was one more class than everyone else in my Cohort was taking.

This semester, however, I completely plan to get a 4.0. I am taking Org Chem II, Physics II, Human Physiology, and labs for each.

As for ECs, I did a summer of research in 2007 on Myxococcus Xanthus where I helped make time-lapse movies and analyzed growth. In 2009, my senior year, I did research with another Stanford professor, about 100 hours worth, but it never really got off the ground (we were testing affects of ice melting on algae and our cultures from Antarctica weren't viable). Both of which I'm getting recommendations from (the latter I have other positive class experience with to pull from). Last summer I did the Pre-Medical Surgical Internship at UC Davis and did about 200 hours of shadowing surgeons, did a final presentation on burn surgery and skin grafting, attended various workshops where we learned surgical methods, and got over 90% in the 'course.'

Undergrad, I was president of my fraternity (Alpha Phi Alpha, and we did heavy community service at juvenile halls, old folks' homes, middle schools in East Palo Alto, etc), taught public speaking, was involved in NAACP, writing for a local newspaper, tutoring of middle school students, president of the Black Recruitment and Orientation Committee, and Program Manager of Black Community Services Center.

After graduation I went to work as a Project Assistant at a consulting firm for non-profits in San Francisco, where I got to interview parents and students at middle schools, interview HIV-positive patients about their experiences with their doctors, collect and analyze survey data, and help write reports. I worked there for about a year.

I am also a creative writer, have written 3 books (all unpublished) and independently traveled to Ecuador the summer of 2008 and lived with a village community on the Cayapas river for 7 weeks in order to learn their culture and for inspiration to write a book. I continue to write, and sold my first short story (very small sell) last week to Fiction365.com. I also blog for Scribophile.com and write children's stories for an iPad app launching soon (don't know if any of this matters, but wanted to give an idea of what I do with my life).

Currently I'm only focused on getting through this semester, studying for the MCAT starting mid-March, and taking the MCAT in July (it's a little late, I know, but it's my plan). I am, however, going to be shadowing the Chief of Surgery at UCSF (I wanted to get involved in his lab but he thinks it's too much to do while schooling full-time), and just got my volunteer badge.

I am confident in my grades and that I will prep well for the MCAT and do well (I do well on standardized tests and it helps that most of the material I'm getting in my current classes). This post is because I'm a little worried about my ECs (not much clinical/hospital experience, though I've done enough research to know I don't like research and my experience at UC Davis solidified my interest in surgery/emergency medicine/being a doctor, as I was unsure coming out of college...hence the time off the medical track), am wondering if people think I am severely lacking in this area (let's just consider I do really well this semester and on the MCAT), and if there's anything they suggest I get involved in between now and application time (considering my courseload).

I'd appreciate not telling me to wait until next year unless you *really* think I have no chance. I am determined to apply this year and would like advice on making myself the best candidate for such.
You had a summer internship in Med/Surg for three months (presumably with patient interaction) and then interacted with HIV patients while data gathering for a year? With the 4-6 months of clinical experience you can gain prior to application submission as a hospital volunteer, I think you should be in good shape. Continuing with this activity during the application season would be wise for the sake of unpdate letters and interview conversations.

I do suggest you not apply with such one-sided shadowing. Try to find an office-based primary care doc and spend a day there to get a view of medicine from the trenches. Who do you think will be referring patients to you as a surgeon? You need to see the view from the other side.
 
Thank you for your reply, but I should have been more clear. At my job as a PA, I worked on various projects with the consulting firm and one of them involved interviewing patients, which I only did over a couple weeks. Other activities included working on a project to help Blue Shield evaluate California clinics and interviewing schools and organizations about their children health initiatives. These weren't the only projects, but the most relevant. I worked there from feb 2010 to June 2011 (quit for post-Bac.) Just want to be clear on that.

About varying shadowing experience, would volunteering in an ER suffice (I also did it as part of this last summer)? I'm very interested in that field. Or do I need to find a primary doctor. I was thinking of trying to volunteer at a local ER in Oakland, but can switch to finding IM doctors if needed.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.723666,-122.475910
 
Members don't see this ad :)
1) I should have been more clear. At my job as a PA, I worked on various projects with the consulting firm and one of them involved interviewing patients, which I only did over a couple weeks. Other activities included working on a project to help Blue Shield evaluate California clinics and interviewing schools and organizations about their children health initiatives. These weren't the only projects, but the most relevant. I worked there from feb 2010 to June 2011 (quit for post-Bac.) Just want to be clear on that.

2) About varying shadowing experience, would volunteering in an ER suffice (I also did it as part of this last summer)? I'm very interested in that field. Or do I need to find a primary doctor. I was thinking of trying to volunteer at a local ER in Oakland, but can switch to finding IM doctors if needed.
1) Be sure that your application highlights the components of the job that were medically relevant in the description you provide.

How many hours did you volunteer in the ER over those three months? How many additional hours did you shadow (don't count the same hours twice)? You did this separate from the internship, but over the same summer? How many hours in the internship?

When are you planning to submit your application, before or after the MCAT score comes back in August?

2) Variety is always helpful, if you can manage it. I'm not suggesting much.
 
It was apart of the same internship but sometimes the trauma surgeons would dump us in the ER when assigned to their service. I spent about 50 of my 200 hours there.

I plan to apply in June, getting primaries in as soon as they open and then my MCAT scores will be sent in August


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.723833,-122.476015
 
So it sounds like you would have 4 months of clinical experience listed on your application + 3 months of internship (not sure yet how it should be categorized) + whatever might be gleaned from the job. Overall, your total experience will definitely be on the light side, unless there is something else you haven't mentioned. So continuing to gain more during the application year would be be extremely important, IMO, which you would actively keep adcomms aware of during the application season, in various ways as mentioned.

In what ways did you interact directly with patients during the internship and in the ER? Or was all that time really a passive observership?
 
It was mostly a passive observership. I was able to chat with patients, especially in the ER and when the doctors took us to clinic, but no official duties. Here's their site, if it means anything: http://www.premedsurgery.org/

Would it be too late to look for opportunities to start after the MCAT (July)? That was going to be my plan already, in case I don't make it this year, but any earlier and more than 8 hours a week (and that's a stretch) would be too hectic right now.
 
Sorry to have misunderstood, but when you said you had gotten your volunteer badge, I thought that meant you were ready to start volunteering next week.

Yes, I think that waiting to start gaining clinical experience until after you take the MCAT, which would be after you had submitted the Primary application, would be too late. You will be judged primarily by the experiences you list. Update letters just help sway an adcomm positively when they are on a cusp. Couldn't you manage three hours a week?
 
Ah, sorry, another misunderstanding. I have the volunteer badge, and that is to allow me to shadow the chief of surgery, which I will start doing immediately. I was talking about seeking a more involved responsibility.

I could manage 3 hours a week. Best thing to look for?
 
To further clarify, I don't have a volunteer badge for anything else. When I mentioned volunteering at an ER, I meant I was thinking of looking into that. Basically, I just mentioned the badge to emphasize that I've set everything up to shadow said surgeon.
 
I think you have more than enough surgical shadowing. Since you're going to do more, try to shadow during his office hours rather than watching surgeries (where the patient is asleep).

Why not see if you could volunteer in the ER, or post-op, or same day surgery, since you're interested in those areas. Perhaps the Chief of Surgery could help facilitate that. Also look into whether there might be a local free- or low-income clinic. You could also try hospice, skilled nursing homes, any clinic, even a private one, a rehab center, among others.
 
I actually had dinner with a hospice specialist a couple months ago and picked his brain about his work, but he said he can't allow shadowing (he visits people's homes).

Also, I should mention that over the last summer we had set hours we were with doctors. From 6am-1pm, or 12pm-7. That is to say, I saw a LOT of patient interaction, from rounds, to pre-op, to clinic hours, to speaking with families. I just didn't participate much myself.

I'll look into those areas. I wanted to volunteer at an ER at Highland Hospital here in Oakland but they have a 80-hour probationary period where you have to volunteer at the front desk/in the giftshop first and that's...well, that just might not work out with my time schedule.
 
I'll look into those areas. I wanted to volunteer at an ER at Highland Hospital here in Oakland but they have a 80-hour probationary period where you have to volunteer at the front desk/in the giftshop first and that's...well, that just might not work out with my time schedule.
This would be a waste of your limited time.
 
Catalystik, I really appreciated the advice. Very helpful. I was just wondering if anyone has any other opinions?

I don't know anything about anything because I'm only a freshman, but seriously, if your ECs are going to "hold you back", there is no hope for me at all ever period none. To me, it seems like you have FANTASTIC ECs that anyone would love to have. Considering your minority status and upward trending GPA... I would feel very hopeless if you didn't get in anywhere. Good luck :luck:
 
Top