work hours...

[justapremed]

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I know that doctors work long hours, doctors often have to make "sacrifices" in their personal life, they are often "on call," though it depends on the specialty, blah blah blah. And of course I "know" this. But I was just reading some sample personal statements, where people have mentioned how they understand the sacrifices that a physician has to make because [insert here a scenario they observed]. And I've given this "lifestyle" aspect of the profession a lot of thought recently anyway, because I'm already out of school, working about 50 hours a week, and wondering what to expect in comparison.

The stories I refer to are things like "I once observed a physician who had to leave in the middle of a family wedding because he was on call and a patients' life was on the line"... or blog posts from wives of physicians who complain that their husbands are on call every 3 or 4 days, so regularly, they go on for a couple of days not seeing their spouses, and when they DO come home, they immediately go to bed, then when they wake up and go back to work, repeat.


And my question is - are these really realistic expectations for a premed to have??? Given that I decide to not pursue something intense like surgery, will I really be looking at spending the next 40+ years of my life being on call every few days, having to spend the night at the hospital regularly, not getting to see my spouse every day, having to miss important family events because of my job, considering it a "rare luxury" if I happen to get both Saturday and Sunday off of work, etc?

In reality, do most physicians live such a life-unfriendly life, or do these mainly apply to just a few specialties? If family life is something you really value, and you don't care about the income level as much, is it possible for you to steer your life that way or is your fate really unpredictable given the competitiveness of residency programs (and you'll just end up where you're selected)?


(and as a side note, I do know that it's unrealistic to expect a 40 hour week as a physician. I know it's not always possible to never miss a family event because of work. So of course that's not the kind of leisurely picture I have in mind, but some of what I'm reading just seems absurd as to how severely job "interferes" with life)

 

[Healer of Ills]

OP, i think that the answer to your question is that it really depends on your own personal goals and what YOU want to achieve. Of course this goes hand in hand with the specialty that you select ( the so called "lifestyle specialties" such as derm)

The way I see it is that it is very hard for most physicians to justify NOT working so many hours when the earning potential is there especially after having gone through probably the most rigorous educational background that any field/profession has to offer.

However, i do think that in residency most of what you said will apply

 

[SteveJMarist]

I know that doctors work long hours, doctors often have to make "sacrifices" in their personal life, they are often "on call," though it depends on the specialty, blah blah blah. And of course I "know" this. But I was just reading some sample personal statements, where people have mentioned how they understand the sacrifices that a physician has to make because [insert here a scenario they observed]. And I've given this "lifestyle" aspect of the profession a lot of thought recently anyway, because I'm already out of school, working about 50 hours a week, and wondering what to expect in comparison.

The stories I refer to are things like "I once observed a physician who had to leave in the middle of a family wedding because he was on call and a patients' life was on the line"... or blog posts from wives of physicians who complain that their husbands are on call every 3 or 4 days, so regularly, they go on for a couple of days not seeing their spouses, and when they DO come home, they immediately go to bed, then when they wake up and go back to work, repeat.


And my question is - are these really realistic expectations for a premed to have??? Given that I decide to not pursue something intense like surgery, will I really be looking at spending the next 40+ years of my life being on call every few days, having to spend the night at the hospital regularly, not getting to see my spouse every day, having to miss important family events because of my job, considering it a "rare luxury" if I happen to get both Saturday and Sunday off of work, etc?

In reality, do most physicians live such a life-unfriendly life, or do these mainly apply to just a few specialties? If family life is something you really value, and you don't care about the income level as much, is it possible for you to steer your life that way or is your fate really unpredictable given the competitiveness of residency programs (and you'll just end up where you're selected)?


(and as a side note, I do know that it's unrealistic to expect a 40 hour week as a physician. I know it's not always possible to never miss a family event because of work. So of course that's not the kind of leisurely picture I have in mind, but some of what I'm reading just seems absurd as to how severely job "interferes" with life)

It's a good question. I've pretty much assumed that I will be sacrificing my social/family life. I thought it was one of those things that you must understand and commit to before pursuing this illustrious career we call medicine.

I could be wrong. Yet, so far in my experiences (shadowing docs), the turn and burn lifestyle stereotype is pretty accurate.

I spent around 50 hrs with a nephrologist. We worked ~ 10 hrs/day. I went home and he'd stay behind to do paper work. Then I'd see him in the morning and he would tell me that he came back at midnight for a couple of hours. He was back at the hospital at 7:30 a.m., and did not seem like he was yanked too far off from his normal schedule.

One guy, one specialty, yes, but the rest of the docs seemed to be in the same sort of fast-paced groove.

 

[justapremed]

OP, i think that the answer to your question is that it really depends on your own personal goals and what YOU want to achieve. Of course this goes hand in hand with the specialty that you select ( the so called "lifestyle specialties" such as derm)

The way I see it is that it is very hard for most physicians to justify NOT working so many hours when the earning potential is there especially after having gone through probably the most rigorous educational background that any field/profession has to offer.

However, i do think that in residency most of what you said will apply

Thanks for the thought.

That's something I had concerns about. It seems that the "lifestyle specialties" also happen to be some of hte most competitive specialties that are well-paid. What makes me nervous is that because it's so competitive, it will be hard to get, and there's no guarantee that you'll make it. So I'd rather not "rely" on getting one of those ROAD specialties for now (not that I'm not motivated... just being realistic).

On your second point, I think that's how I felt when I was in school - I was a really competitive student, academics and a successful career was my ideal goal, etc. But after graduating and exploring life more, my thoughts changed drastically. I don't care so much about getting the max out of my earning potential or going into a "prestigious specialty" necessarily, if they interfere with how I'm gonna be spending the rest of my life. If I could earn just enough to live a life where I'm not struggling to pay for things on a monthly basis, that will be enough for me...

I don't know. Maybe my thoughts will change again once I'm actually in medical school. But for the time being, I really want to put a manageable/controllable lifestyle before many other factors... and I guess I'm just not sure how realistic of a goal that is.

And lastly, I do hear lots of stories about the residency years, and I don't expect to avoid the ridiculous lifestyle during those years. But I guess I'm thinking more in the long run... the 30+ years of a medical career after that.

 

[PostHaste]

a) This:

OP, i think that the answer to your question is that it really depends on your own personal goals and what YOU want to achieve. Of course this goes hand in hand with the specialty that you select ( the so called "lifestyle specialties" such as derm)

The way I see it is that it is very hard for most physicians to justify NOT working so many hours when the earning potential is there especially after having gone through probably the most rigorous educational background that any field/profession has to offer.

However, i do think that in residency most of what you said will apply

b) Flexible jobs in medicine are certainly out there. I don't know if they always have been and nobody talks about them (because what fun is it to talk about how normal your life is?), or if it's a shift in the culture (a la 80-hour residency work rules and the generational shift to less employee loyalty). With the increase in prevalance of hospitalists (IM & OB) and intensivists (as well as e-ICUs) I'd be willing to bet that the amount of call that most primary docs take has plummeted.

 

[LoveTheRunner]

the other day i met a friend of my dad's who works as a janitor in his building. I ended up talking to him for a bit about my goals for school and his life as well. His typical week: he works M-F from 8-4:30 as a janitor in one part of the city. Soon as his shift is over, he catches a mile bus ride to my dad's building where he does the 5p - 1a shift. Monday through Friday. Every week. He also has a wife and 4 kids (2 from each parent from previous marriages). His jobs alone don't provide him with enough to support his family the way he desires (wants to send his kids to college), so he used what savings he did have as a down payment on a couple of small houses near the city. Granted, they obviously aren't in the greatest of shape, so he tries to fix them up and rents them to people working in the city. Most of his weekends are spent doing landlord stuff that you wouldn't expect from a guy who is next door to section 8 housing.

and you're worried about time commitment for a white collar job that offers a lifestyle most would leave their own for?

sorry, didn't mean to rant

 

[PostHaste]

That's something I had concerns about. It seems that the "lifestyle specialties" also happen to be some of hte most competitive specialties that are well-paid. What makes me nervous is that because it's so competitive, it will be hard to get, and there's no guarantee that you'll make it. So I'd rather not "rely" on getting one of those ROAD specialties for now (not that I'm not motivated... just being realistic).

I don't know what your scale is for "well-paid," but you could certainly make $200k+ as a hospitalist (lots of shift options depending on where you go) or in EM (I hear the typical schedule is three 12's/wk). Low-moderate competition, pretty benign lifestyle.

 

[justapremed]

Ok, I can breathe a little more now. I guess in short, my question really was:

Is it possible to practice medicine and have a more flexible work schedule than the common stereotype while:
(a) not banking on getting one of the competitive ROAD specialties since those are hard to get
(b) not earning so little to the point where you're struggling to pay off debt and financially managing having a family

Because I don't care AS much about if I'm not earning as much as the next guy on the block who IS working 80 hours a week. I don't care AS much if I'm not earning the extra $100K that I could be earning, had I sacrificed more personal life...

But thanks for the responses, they're calming me a bit.

 

[juliedi]

My dad is a general surgeon who's been in private practice for 20 years in a suburban community hospital. During his residency and the first few years of his practice, he definitely had the "typical" surgeon's lifestyle: long days, on call all the time, missing important family functions, etc. But as he got more established, he's worked less and less. These days, he goes in at 8:00 (or 7:00 if he's got an early surgery), always has an hour for lunch, and leaves by 3:30 or 4:00. Usually one day of the weekend he goes in to round on patients and catch up on paperwork, probably for about 1-2 hours. Of course there are the occasional long days or emergency cases, but in general, his lifestyle is pretty fantastic.

So I guess my point is that your future lifestyle not only depends on your specialty, but also on the point in your career. And probably the location of your practice.