Work in third world country

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Worth it?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 42.3%

  • No

    Votes: 15 57.7%
  • Total voters
    26
P

PotionCastle433

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Question has been answered, thank you all!!
 
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It's a chance to gain an amazing experience. Treat it as such. But if you're doing it simply for your med school application, they'll probably see right through it. And make sure you start getting mostly A's. Even if you have to decrease your work load and take 5 years to graduate rather than 4.
 
You, having no medical skills, plan to do exactly what in a poor country to defenseless patients to improve your medical school application?
 
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PotionCastle433 said:
Hi, I'm a first year pre-med and I'm a human bio major. I didn't do so well in my first semester and ended up getting C's in Calc and Gen Chem. I'm getting B's and A's this semester so far but my father was planning on visiting Afghanistan to visit family. I might go with him and my cousin offered me a summer internship at his clinic (help him and his nurses with patients and even go to villages outside of the city to help those who don't have access to the hospitals in the city). Would this help boost my Med School application or is it not worth it? I'm getting mixed responses on working in a third world country. And because my grades arent so well either i was hoping to boost my application with a lot of EC's and (hopefully) a strong MCAT, what are
your thoughts? Thank you in advance!
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Do it for yourself if you think spending more time in your own country is beneficial to you as an individual.

This activity will not make up for your aggressively mediocre grades.
 
Start with Detroit, it's a third world country. Just kidding.

Why don't you do "Teach for America" program, or help out inner city (or rural) youth. Inspire children, help the homeless or families living in poverty. Lot's of things you can do in your own backyard.
 
Theafoni said:
Start with Detroit, it's a third world country. Just kidding.

Why don't you do "Teach for America" program, or help out inner city (or rural) youth. Inspire children, help the homeless or families living in poverty. Lot's of things you can do in your own backyard.
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Why doesn't OP do TFA, you ask?

Because OP is a freshman in college.
 
Theafoni said:
Start with Detroit, it's a third world country. Just kidding.

Why don't you do "Teach for America" program, or help out inner city (or rural) youth. Inspire children, help the homeless or families living in poverty. Lot's of things you can do in your own backyard.
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No. Just no. :uhno:
 
as someone born&raised in a borderline 3rd world country, I'd advise you to please stay out (unless you're a nice tourist - then please visit and drop your $). In my country, hospital administrators used to take pre-meds to "volunteer" in regional hospitals for minor bribes (I'm talking like $20-50 in cash and a nice chocolate bar). I really wish adcoms would discourage college students traveling to 3rd/2nd world countries to volunteer - I'm sorry to say, but you will not contribute anything of value, and you're taking opportunities away from locals.

only if you're an MD with experience and ability to adapt to changing circumstances should you consider going abroad to objectively better the healthcare of foreigners.
 
itsogre said:
as someone born&raised in a borderline 3rd world country, please stay out (unless you're a nice tourist - then please visit and drop your $). In my country, hospital administrators used to take pre-meds to "volunteer" in regional hospitals for minor bribes (I'm talking like $20-50 in cash and a nice chocolate bar). I really wish adcoms would discourage college students traveling to 3rd/2nd world countries to volunteer - I'm sorry to say, but you will not contribute anything of value, and you're taking opportunities away from locals.

only if you're an MD with experience and ability to adapt to changing circumstances should you consider going abroad to objectively better the healthcare of foreigners.
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Yeah, I always wondered why no one questioned the ethics of pre-meds volunteering abroad. It's one thing to working with people in non-medical ways. But when your talking about providing healthcare? Doesn't make sense.
 
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drmak89 said:
Yeah, I always wondered why no one questioned the ethics of pre-meds volunteering abroad. It's one thing to working with people in non-medical ways. But when your talking about providing healthcare? Doesn't make sense.
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We question it every time we see it.
 
It will be seen for what it actually: medical tourism.

If you want to help people overseas, join the US military, or the Peace Corps. No, I'm not being contradictory either.

ECs do not typically make up for poor grades.

PotionCastle433 said:
Hi, I'm a first year pre-med and I'm a human bio major. I didn't do so well in my first semester and ended up getting C's in Calc and Gen Chem. I'm getting B's and A's this semester so far but my father was planning on visiting Afghanistan to visit family. I might go with him and my cousin offered me a summer internship at his clinic (help him and his nurses with patients and even go to villages outside of the city to help those who don't have access to the hospitals in the city). Would this help boost my Med School application or is it not worth it? I'm getting mixed responses on working in a third world country. And because my grades arent so well either i was hoping to boost my application with a lot of EC's and (hopefully) a strong MCAT, what are
your thoughts? Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...
 
gyngyn said:
We question it every time we see it.
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I can understand looking down on it if the volunteer is doing anything he is not trained for. What if the person is interested in global health and only assumes a shadowing role to get an idea of the healthcare system? Will it still be frowned upon?
 
FWIW I spent a few months in Afghanistan as a volunteer with a leadership training organization between Sophomore and Junior year. While I was there I had a couple days off which I used to shadow some US and local Afghan physicians. That experience was an eye opening one and personally very impactful. It motivated me to overcome my apathy and B/C GPA to work towards medical school. In no way did I touch patients or provide healthcare so that might be another story.
 
Havoc390 said:
I can understand looking down on it if the volunteer is doing anything he is not trained for. What if the person is interested in global health and only assumes a shadowing role to get an idea of the healthcare system? Will it still be frowned upon?
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Pretty sure she means when a premed says s/he did health care things abroad
 
It's a fine experience as long as you do something similar here in the states. Basically what everyone said above you don't want to look like a medical tourist but I wouldn't turn down the opportunity if it's available to you. I had a friend who went to Africa to do simple BP measurements and give out vaccines (you need maybe 1 day of training to do this) and he loved the experience.
 
You should ask him what it really involves and decide.

As someone who also grew up in developing country, I think personally there are a lot to be learned that might be beneficial for you as a person. Just don't expect it to boost your application. depending on what you end up doing and how you describe the experience, it may or may not work in your favor.
 
What are your all's opinions on supervised and seemingly legitimate programs like "Global Medical Brigades"?

I never personally partook in one because they were all very expensive. I agree with everyone else here regarding "helping people in your own backyard first." I started volunteering at a free clinic and I've already learned so much about the medically underserved communities here.

The medical mission trips do seem like a good opportunity though for someone interested in global healthcare.
 
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This is all about spin.. If you frame it as "altruistic do good experience" then you're screwed because no one will believe it. If you frame it as "naive but learning about a homeland I never knew... and very touched by experience..." Then maybe.
 
I'm curious about whether if you had a certification, like EMT or CNA, and then went abroad and volunteered using those skills whether that would still be viewed in a negative light? Especially if you did it for a little longer than your average mission trip ~2 months? ( @gyngyn @Goro)

As to the OP, I think it is a great opportunity to learn about healthcare and just grow within yourself, but it won't help your application all that much. A summer internship at a hospital in the US would do a lot more for your app. So depends on what you are looking for... but no, EC's won't compensate for grades, although the MCAT can to some degree. However, even a killer MCAT can't cover for terrible grades. If I were you, I would try not to be complacent about B's either, try to aim for A's and be disappointed at B's. You still have time to make up for one bad semester! It is super difficult to come back from low grades, as many previous posters have mentioned, both here and elsewhere.
 
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tea guzzling traveler said:
I'm curious about whether if you had a certification, like EMT or CNA, and then went abroad and volunteered using those skills whether that would still be viewed in a negative light? Especially if you did it for a little longer than your average mission trip ~2 months? ( @gyngyn @Goro)
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A person who has skills lacking in another country who goes there to teach those skills (at their request) has my respect.
A person who volunteers in an emergency, where manpower is requested is also fine.
 
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gyngyn said:
A person who has skills lacking in another country who goes there to teach those skills (at their request) has my respect.
A person who volunteers in an emergency, where manpower is requested is also fine.
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Hah, agreed. Sadly, the tribesmen in Afghanistan are really into our uhhh "help" aren't they? This is actually a hotly debated medical anthropology topic.
 
caffeinemia said:
Hah, agreed. Sadly, the tribesmen in Afghanistan are really into our uhhh "help" aren't they? This is actually a hotly debated medical anthropology topic.
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Actually there are parts of Afghanistan where advanced medical care is needed and appreciated and where many of the tribesmen would want our "help". Unfortunately, these places tend to be too remote and/or dangerous for western healthcare providers (and some Afghan ones) and are accessible possibly only to the military (which tends to bring other problems for the people). In the areas that are more accessible, though, western medical efforts tend to undermine the existing Afghan ones. Afghans trust western doctors and drugs more (sometimes rightly so), and so tend to become dependent on the west while the Afghan medical system suffers. What is needed more than civilian western clinics are efforts to gradually improve the medical infrastructure within the Afghan framework. There is a lot that needs to happen before that, though. From what the OP wrote, though, I'm going to assume this is an Afghan clinic and may be a good opportunity to observe medicine in a third world country.

As for the OP's original concern, I think this may be an interesting and worthwhile experience, but I would consider it almost like a NON-CLINICAL volunteer experience. This most likely would not replace shadowing/volunteering within the US medical system, but may be an interesting supplement.
 
Just Call Me Doc said:
Actually there are parts of Afghanistan where advanced medical care is needed and appreciated and where many of the tribesmen would want our "help". Unfortunately, these places tend to be too remote and/or dangerous for western healthcare providers (and some Afghan ones) and are accessible possibly only to the military (which tends to bring other problems for the people). In the areas that are more accessible, though, western medical efforts tend to undermine the existing Afghan ones. Afghans trust western doctors and drugs more (sometimes rightly so), and so tend to become dependent on the west while the Afghan medical system suffers. What is needed more than civilian western clinics are efforts to gradually improve the medical infrastructure within the Afghan framework. There is a lot that needs to happen before that, though. From what the OP wrote, though, I'm going to assume this is an Afghan clinic and may be a good opportunity to observe medicine in a third world country.

As for the OP's original concern, I think this may be an interesting and worthwhile experience, but I would consider it almost like a NON-CLINICAL volunteer experience. This most likely would not replace shadowing/volunteering within the US medical system, but may be an interesting supplement.
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Agree. Your analysis is astute and your understanding of it is far superior to mine (because of personal experiences?). I would be impressed if the OP wrote that in a personal statement. Sadly, what I usually see is... "Working with the villagers was soooo rewarding. Now I want to be a doctor."
 
I think it'd be a good experience just for yourself, but you should really make sure you're not doing anything other than basic first aid and helping with menial tasks.
 
What's the consensus on just working in a free clinic in an island country doing non medial related activities? Like 3 hours a day shadowing and 5 hours a day doing secretary work.
 
I'm not sure why everyone is being so negative. (Well, it's SDN, I shouldn't be surprised.) As someone who was on my school's adcom, I can tell you that this would definitely add to an application and possibly be a good personal statement topic if it becomes a good life experience for you. However you need to keep in mind that you will be competing with many applicants who did MANY of these activities AND had stellar grades. Doing this by itself will NOT make you stand out especially if your grades and mcat are below average.
 
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Psyche Estrelle said:
I'm not sure why everyone is being so negative. (Well, it's SDN, I shouldn't be surprised.) As someone who was on my school's adcom, I can tell you that this would definitely add to an application and possibly be a good personal statement topic if it becomes a good life experience for you. However you need to keep in mind that you will be competing with many applicants who did MANY of these activities AND had stellar grades. Doing this by itself will NOT make you stand out especially if your grades and mcat are below average.
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Like I said - it's all about spin.
 
Just Call Me Doc said:
Actually there are parts of Afghanistan where advanced medical care is needed and appreciated and where many of the tribesmen would want our "help". Unfortunately, these places tend to be too remote and/or dangerous for western healthcare providers (and some Afghan ones) and are accessible possibly only to the military (which tends to bring other problems for the people). In the areas that are more accessible, though, western medical efforts tend to undermine the existing Afghan ones. Afghans trust western doctors and drugs more (sometimes rightly so), and so tend to become dependent on the west while the Afghan medical system suffers. What is needed more than civilian western clinics are efforts to gradually improve the medical infrastructure within the Afghan framework. There is a lot that needs to happen before that, though. From what the OP wrote, though, I'm going to assume this is an Afghan clinic and may be a good opportunity to observe medicine in a third world country.

As for the OP's original concern, I think this may be an interesting and worthwhile experience, but I would consider it almost like a NON-CLINICAL volunteer experience. This most likely would not replace shadowing/volunteering within the US medical system, but may be an interesting supplement.
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This is why I really respect the PIH model in Haiti.
 
When my friend received his rejection from a pretty respected MD school, he mentioned to me how it was funny that in the rejection letter they managed to tell him "why" he didn't get in.

Basically, they mentioned they had a number of qualified candidates with not only a strong academic record, but other activities and in that list they included "volunteer programs abroad" and helping "underserved communities here and in developing countries."

It seems like that's one school that actually might value those medical mission trips.

Am I allowed to say what school it is? If anyone is interested in the school and if it's no big deal to say which school it is, I'll respond with it in my next post.
 
gyngyn said:
I must say that spin can be a real turn off in the application. We see so much of it.
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Yeah. Definitely can be overdone. I mean seriously, not every patient you touch is that "personally rewarding." Most times, the only reward is a sour-salty-fungal assault on your nostrils.

I mentioned earlier -- would be interesting to see an applicant talk about why the Afghan tribesman might not like "altruistic" Western medical treatment. Would at least show some deeper thought.
 
gyngyn said:
The relentless spin actually makes the naively "bad' answers somehow charming.
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Till you see your thousandth "I like to help people and save babies." (WHICH YOU HAVE.) Don't you barf a bit in your mouth? I sure do.
 
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I took a picture of the rejection letter when he pulled it up on his phone (don't ask lol, I thought it might be good to refer back to when evaluating my own ECs).
 
gyngyn said:
For real?
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Yes! I can send you the picture if you'd like (it's a picture of the rejection letter pulled up on his phone). I will crop out his email which appears on the top.
 
got a good kick out of goro's "if you want to help people abroad, join the US military", particularly considering this thread was made with afghanistan in mind...
 
caffeinemia said:
Yeah. Definitely can be overdone. I mean seriously, not every patient you touch is that "personally rewarding." Most times, the only reward is a sour-salty-fungal assault on your nostrils.

I mentioned earlier -- would be interesting to see an applicant talk about why the Afghan tribesman might not like "altruistic" Western medical treatment. Would at least show some deeper thought.
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You and me both. It can be surprisingly hard to find people with that broader perspective (especially in the field). It took me WAY longer to figure it out myself than I would like to admit. And you see so many people making the same mistakes out there.

The hard part of the "spin", at least for me, is that this mentality propagates many of the problems we see. People who have this idea of "saving" a community by "delivering" western medicine. At best you may help prolong a few peoples lives a little longer, but as soon as you leave, things will go back the way they were before. And you may end up degrading an already messed up medical infrastructure which results in things being worse for these people than you before you came. But you still see people patting themselves on the back after handing out a few bottles of antibiotics or bags of rice as if they've saved these people. Again, I will fully admit I've done it as well, but at least I eventually learned somewhat better.

There is definitely a time and place for altruistic western medical treatment, but it usually has to be incorporated in a larger solution with a long-term strategy in mind. Places like Haiti are a little easier because there is an immediate need and a shortage of resources, but you still have to think of the long-term infrastructure to make a real difference. For a med school applicant with little to no medical training or background to say that they found an experience like that "rewarding" just sounds a little naive and smells a little funny to me (I generally found them frustrating).

And if someone says they found every patient they touched as "personally rewarding", then it means to me you haven't touched many patients (if any).
 
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