MD "Worked hard and had a competent performance" - bad comment on a LoR?

[jhamaican]

I know that this will come off super harsh, and maybe this is a Millennials expectations thing, but we LOR writers are under no obligation to be nice. We're obligated to be honest.

One thing about these letters, no matter what the venue, is that the judgment of the requestor comes into play. You should have a good relationship with your LOR writer. Why even take the risk of asking for a letter from someone who not write a good one?

This is why I always advise pre-meds to ask "Dr ___, do you know me well enough to write a good LOR for my app to med school?" So just change the wording for residency, and it's the same thing.

To be honest, I've told people "I don't know you well enough to write a letter" and also "I can't write you a good letter". To date, I wrote one bad letter, but that person simply didn't belong in med school.

There was grad student in my post-doc lab who was a real viper. She left before she finished her PhD, and got a technician job somewhere on the Eats Coast. One day, out of the blue, she called me and told me of some career plans and asked if I could write her a letter. "Sure", I said.

She never asked for the LOR, and too bad, because I would have put a stake through her heart.

The only thing that bothers me about your post is that you would agree to write a letter for someone, then say poor things.

Even if you don't like the individual, agreeing to write a letter in support of them and then "putting a stake through her heart" is super passive aggressive. We have enough people like that in medicine already.

You also seem to place all the blame on the person asking for the letter. Different people perceive relationships in different ways. If goes both ways. The letter writer should say NO if it is not going to be a strong letter, or at least give a caveat. Applicants should also not be idiots and ask individuals who they have never really worked extensively with.

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[Goro]

My understanding is that if you agree to write a letter for an applicant, you are implicitly stating it is going to be a good, strong letter to their benefit.

I asked a few big names for letters in applying for fellowship and they said yes, but I don't know you very well.

If the letter writer does not enthusiastically say yes, you do not want that letter.

Who offers or says yes to a letter request and writes it luke-warm?

Your understanding is wrong. I agree that a potential writer should say "I don't know you well enough" or "It won't be a good one", but again, the only obligation we are under is to be honest.

 

[Goro]

The only thing that bothers me about your post is that you would agree to write a letter for someone, then say poor things.

Even if you don't like the individual, agreeing to write a letter in support of them and then "putting a stake through her heart" is super passive aggressive. We have enough people like that in medicine already.

You also seem to place all the blame on the person asking for the letter. Different people perceive relationships in different ways. If goes both ways. The letter writer should say NO if it is not going to be a strong letter, or at least give a caveat. Applicants should also not be idiots and ask individuals who they have never really worked extensively with.

And your point? In the first case, you didn't know HR, the person I was referring to. I had to deal with her for three years! A Mexican friend in the lab and I used to call her "La Serpiente". Your last sentence is a given, but a lot of people who ask for LORs display poor judgment in this regard, and that's why most LORs anywhere are fluff.

Truly bad LORs are very rare.

But we're getting distracted from the OP. The agreement from our wise clinician colleagues is that the OP did a mediocre job on rotation, asked for a LOR and got exactly what the were asking for. One of the sub-morals in the story here is don't do a barely competent job. The wording in the OPs LOR reminded me of the British put down in LOR "works well when supervised".

 

[mvenus929]

Curious question here... But why would the first impression be to blame the applicant of being mediocre? It could just be a case of negligence on the LOR writer. We're all humans here.

Would your opinion be diff if another LOR writer has the same things written about the applicant except that the format, name, gender, etc... are correct?

I believe my wording was 'didn't make an impression', which is not necessarily the same as 'being mediocre'. There are attendings who I didn't work with very much during residency, and would probably have very bland things to say about me. The senior residents I worked on during those same services sung my praises. This was reflected in my evaluations. It also says something about the judgement of the student that they asked someone who would write a less than ideal letter. There are some exceptions to this. One of my friends went into Derm, and got a letter from our school's chair, who is so well known in the community that it doesn't matter what he actually writes in the letter, the fact he was willing to write the letter at all means something.

The only thing that bothers me about your post is that you would agree to write a letter for someone, then say poor things.

Even if you don't like the individual, agreeing to write a letter in support of them and then "putting a stake through her heart" is super passive aggressive. We have enough people like that in medicine already.

Sure, there is something mean about writing a negative LOR. But, if someone cares enough to write a letter 'putting a stake through [their] heart', then they really do want to warn people about the person in a word environment.

It's also helpful if you have someone screening your letters to let you know if they are good or not. For fellowship, our program coordinator collects all the letters, reads through them, and lets the residents know if a letter is less than good, so they can find another one.

 

[HomeSkool]

The wording in the OPs LOR reminded me of the British put down in LOR "works well when supervised".

DAMN.

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[Psai]

Yeah thats what I was kind of thinking. How much can you really glean from someone rotating in your department for a month anyway?

Trust me, it is very easy. We had an away rotator that I knew was terrible from one day. I really hope they don't match here.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Yeah thats what I was kind of thinking. How much can you really glean from someone rotating in your department for a month anyway?

A lot.

 

[Osteoth]

Trust me, it is very easy. We had an away rotator that I knew was terrible from one day. I really hope they don't match here.

How'd you know?

A lot.

What do you think are the things people can do that most positively reflect on them other than being on time, trying to help when they can, etc?

Had an away guy offer to dig through the trash to find something that might have gotten thrown away while I was in the OR. Couldn't tell if that came accross well or poorly...

 

[VincentAdultman]

How'd you know?



What do you think are the things people can do that most positively reflect on them other than being on time, trying to help when they can, etc?

Had an away guy offer to dig through the trash to find something that might have gotten thrown away while I was in the OR. Couldn't tell if that came accross well or poorly...

You would think that being on time, staying late, being proactive, and maintaining a positive attitude would be basic things but you'd be surprised.

And I'm not sure I'd want the medical student digging through garbage. Especially on a surgery rotation.

 

[Osteoth]

You would think that being on time, staying late, being proactive, and maintaining a positive attitude would be basic things but you'd be surprised.

And I'm not sure I'd want the medical student digging through garbage. Especially on a surgery rotation.

Yeah I thought it was a bit much tbh but I guess its better to do a little too much than to do too little...

So yeah outside of those things I guess its just your clinical knowledge/ability that gets you from high pass to honors?