Worried about being able to work in NYC

[deleted950463]

Hello forum! Long time lurker but first post. I am from the NYC area and started a year ago.

One of my childhood dream would be to work at NYPresbyterian hospital as an attending and teach residents. I decided to look at their staff directory today, just typed in the letter A as last name. I cannot post the link yet, but this is the first google result if you search “nyp staff directory find a doctor”

Out of the 211 physicians on that list there are only TWO DOs! There are far more MBBS and even more PsychD listed there. Both of those DOs are in pediatrics, and right now I am thinking about diagnostic radiology or anesthesia.

Shock to find that DO BIAS is still alive and well! Will this get better with the residency merger?

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[Mass Effect]

Ok, first of all, breathe. Secondly, you can't take that as DO bias. You take it for what it is -- there are a lot less DOs working at that particular hospital. Who cares? Being an MD doesn't guarantee appointment anywhere either. There are DOs with appointments at the top institutions in the country and some of them didn't even take the USMLE. I personally know this to be true.

 

[deleted950463]

But are they ar NYC? I would really like to return to my family and where I grew up, and rather not live in the boonies if I can help it. Are there diagnostic radiology residency in NYC that take DOs and place DOs on faculty at teaching hospitals there?

 

[ohmanwaddup]

But are they ar NYC? I would really like to return to my family and where I grew up, and rather not live in the boonies if I can help it. Are there diagnostic radiology residency in NYC that take DOs and place DOs on faculty at teaching hospitals there?

Typical New Yorker thinking that anything not within your precious 10 square miles is the "Boonies"

 

[deleted950463]

Typical New Yorker thinking that anything not within your precious 10 square miles is the "Boonies"

I just want to go back to where I grew up, with all my childhood friends. Is that something to be derided over?

 

[samac]

You might not get to do your residency in NYC, but it’s likely you can find a job.

 

[ortnakas]

You can definitely match and eventually work in NYC as a DO. I have a few friends who matched there in 2018.

Matching in a fancy specialty at a fancy hospital in NYC is a taller order.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Shock to find that DO BIAS is still alive and well! Will this get better with the residency merger?

Lol you are talking about academic positions at NYP... and you are confused why you don't see many DOs? Oh you have a lot to learn... Not just anyone gets to work at NYP or do residency there. The people who work there likely did residency at big name places, are very well known in the research world, and have connections in some form. Add all of those things up and it equals very few DOs lol. I doubt many DOs are even qualified for that kind of position outside of peds or FM. I get the sense you have no idea what goes into getting certain jobs in medicine, it's much more than just "You're a rads doc and we have a rads opening so you're hired" type thing.

NYC has tons of crappy residency programs that you can go to. If you want a program in NY then you will find it. It won't however, be at one of the major academic centers.

 

[deleted950463]

Lol you are talking about academic positions at NYP... and you are confused why you don't see many DOs? Oh you have a lot to learn... Not just anyone gets to work at NYP or do residency there. The people who work there likely did residency at big name places, are very well known in the research world, and have connections in some form. Add all of those things up and it equals very few DOs lol. I doubt many DOs are even qualified for that kind of position outside of peds or FM. I get the sense you have no idea what goes into getting certain jobs in medicine, it's much more than just "You're a rads doc and we have a rads opening so you're hired" type thing.

NYC has tons of crappy residency programs that you can go to. If you want a program in NY then you will find it. It won't however, be at one of the major academic centers.

I wish the DO students would tell me more about those limitation back in the day. During application time all I read about on this website are how DO and MD are completey equal and I can go anywhere and do anything if “I put my mind to it”.

I can work hard and get good grades. I can try to take the USMLE, but to find out that doesn’t matter how strong my grades are, getting into places like NYP is near impossible is quite a struggle.

Mind you, I don’t want to do ortho. I want to do diagnostic rad, where everyone here on the DO forum says it’s completely doable.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I want to do diagnostic rad, where everyone here on the DO forum says it’s completely doable.

DR is possible, just not at elite academic institutions.

getting into places like NYP

Bro you need to realize that you are at a DO school. That means you weren't the greatest undergrad student. Even if you had gone to an MD school your chances of doing residency at NYP were rather small.

I wish the DO students would tell me more about those limitation back in the day. During application time all I read about on this website

Yeah I'm calling BS because we have been saying this for a long time. You just didn't want to listen.

Do you know what it even takes to do residency at NYP? I don't think you even understand what you need to do to get to a place like that.

 

[workaholic181]

It shouldn't be a secret that DOs don't match into elite residencies in any specialty often. Look at FM, peds, matches from any DO school in recent years and that's pretty apparent. It's doable and people will point to anecdotal evidence but the fact is DO bias does unfortunately still exist.
At the end of the day though man you're gonna be a doc more likely than not and you can probably match somewhere in the NYC metro area without too much trouble. If it's any consolation, my mid tier allo sends a few people to NYP every year, but they tend to be totally dominant students. Residencies like that are just Uber competitive. I imagine it's frustrating to know that your degree kind of disqualifies you from going for it but chances are it would have been put of reach if you were at an MD school too.

 

[FistLength]

DR is possible, just not at elite academic institutions.



Bro you need to realize that you are at a DO school. That means you weren't the greatest undergrad student. Even if you had gone to an MD school your chances of doing residency at NYP were rather small.



Yeah I'm calling BS because we have been saying this for a long time. You just didn't want to listen.

Do you know what it even takes to do residency at NYP? I don't think you even understand what you need to do to get to a place like that.

preach it brotha.

 

[deleted950463]

DR is possible, just not at elite academic institutions.



Bro you need to realize that you are at a DO school. That means you weren't the greatest undergrad student. Even if you had gone to an MD school your chances of doing residency at NYP were rather small.



Yeah I'm calling BS because we have been saying this for a long time. You just didn't want to listen.

Do you know what it even takes to do residency at NYP? I don't think you even understand what you need to do to get to a place like that.

Believe or not, I actually am one of the many DO students that chose to go DO because how much closer my campus it is to my home. I am only tens of miles away from NY state at least. I had a MCAT of 519 and GPA of 3.7. I just didn’t want to be further away from my family by going to the only lower tier MD school I got into as an ORM since I read about low tier MD and DO are essentially equal anyway. Sadly no other NY state school gave me love and somehow I didn’t get into other NY DO schools...must have been a poor interviewer...

Wish I thought to research the NYC thing a little better...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Believe or not, I actually am one of the many DO students that chose to go DO because how much closer my campus it is to my home. I am only tens of miles away from NY state at least. I had a MCAT of 519 and GPA of 3.7. I just didn’t want to be further away from my family by going to the only lower tier MD school I got into as an ORM since I read about low tier MD and DO are essentially equal anyway. Sadly no other NY state school gave me love and somehow I didn’t get into other NY DO schools...must have been a poor interviewer...

Wish I thought to research the NYC thing a little better...

I could go on about how you made a terrible mistake but I think you are realizing that and there is no point in hammering that point. Work hard and try to do as well as you can and then just see what happens. GET RESEARCH. I cannot state that enough. If you want an academic program in NY then you will need a solid research CV in addition to good academics. All is not lost, you can still have a great career, even an academic one, it's just going to take effort. Start it now.

I really want to know what you read that said that low-tier MD and DO were equal though.... because it most likely wasn't SDN.

And for all you pre-meds out there, and people who are all "go where you fit best" when it comes to MD and DO, this is why we give the advice that we do. If you have the chance to go MD then go.

 

[deleted950463]

I could go on about how you made a terrible mistake but I think you are realizing that and there is no point in hammering that point. Work hard and try to do as well as you can and then just see what happens. GET RESEARCH. I cannot state that enough. If you want an academic program in NY then you will need a solid research CV in addition to good academics. All is not lost, you can still have a great career, even an academic one, it's just going to take effort. Start it now.

I really want to know what you read that said that low-tier MD and DO were equal though.... because it most likely wasn't SDN.

And for all you pre-meds out there, and people who are all "go where you fit best" when it comes to MD and DO, this is why we give the advice that we do. If you have the chance to go MD then go.

I don’t know man, at least on this forum people seem to mostly say that once residency is done DOs are equal to MDs but now I am reaching out to some former grads and friends they are saying that they have gotten some silent rejection and had some difficulty with jobs at hot markets like NYC...more so than they should compared to their MD colleagues. It really sucks and I wish my admin would tell us about this stuff or the importance of USMLE.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I don’t know man, at least on this forum people seem to mostly say that once residency is done DOs are equal to MDs but now I am reaching out to some former grads and friends they are saying that they have gotten some silent rejection and had some difficulty with jobs at hot markets like NYC...more so than they should compared to their MD colleagues. It really sucks and I wish my admin would tell us about this stuff or the importance of USMLE.

You are going to have to be specific with what type of job, what field, where they did residency, what their CV looks like (for academic jobs), what practice model, etc, because just getting a job in NYC is not hard. In private practice the DO/MD distinction is largely irrelevant and no one cares at that point. There is a lot that goes into it (like the stuff I listed above) that isn't related to the degree.

 

[samac]

I don’t know man, at least on this forum people seem to mostly say that once residency is done DOs are equal to MDs but now I am reaching out to some former grads and friends they are saying that they have gotten some silent rejection and had some difficulty with jobs at hot markets like NYC...more so than they should compared to their MD colleagues. It really sucks and I wish my admin would tell us about this stuff or the importance of USMLE.

Ok, let’s be real. After residency it is pretty much equal. If there’s a general job opening in most hospitals or in a clinic they’re relatively the same. BUT academic spots have always been residency/research dependent. They want people who have the experience to be an academic powerhouse. In those places MD’s stand a better shot because they tend to have more academic residencies. Make sense?

 

[Neopolymath]

No one in the medical student section of SDN told you any of this stuff. I can guarantee that. You have to be joking or really, really confused.

Also, have fun working with a bunch of ancillary staff that can't be assed to do their job if you do residency in NYC.

 

[UnoMas]

Being a medical student and having such strict geographic constraint is a known recipe for unhappiness

 

[Mass Effect]

So much information in this thread by med students who repeat the same mantra over and over again. Look, I went to DO school, I failed out of DO school, I got back into DO school, I went into the specialty I wanted, which admittedly, wasn't as competitive as DR. I ended up at a solid ACGME academic residency program in the northeast and am now at one of those elite institutions for fellowship. Two supervisors have reached out regarding attending positions for next year.

Work hard, study, get to work early, stay late if you need to get the work done, be good to people, make good impressions, and stop believing everything you read on SDN. You chart your own path in this world. If you give in to what others think you will or won't be capable of, you're going to cap your own future. If I had listened to all those telling me I could never get back in to med school, who knows what I'd be doing right now.

Not saying the above formula will work for everyone. But the point is, don't listen to others when it comes to YOUR dreams. Keep your expectations intact, but don't let others make you assume you're limited when you very well could be a success story in the making.

 

[uhmocksuhsillen]

Hello forum! Long time lurker but first post. I am from the NYC area and got into one of the LECOMs and started a year ago.

One of my childhood dream would be to work at NYPresbyterian hospital as an attending and teach residents. I decided to look at their staff directory today, just typed in the letter A as last name. I cannot post the link yet, but this is the first google result if you search “nyp staff directory find a doctor”

Out of the 211 physicians on that list there are only TWO DOs! There are far more MBBS and even more PsychD listed there. Both of those DOs are in pediatrics, and right now I am thinking about diagnostic radiology or anesthesia.

Shock to find that DO BIAS is still alive and well! Will this get better with the residency merger?

It's prestige really that important to you? You can easily work in an academic center in NYC as a DO. You will of course probably have to live elsewhere though because the pay will be atrocious.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Believe or not, I actually am one of the many DO students that chose to go DO because how much closer my campus it is to my home. I am only tens of miles away from NY state at least. I had a MCAT of 519 and GPA of 3.7. I just didn’t want to be further away from my family by going to the only lower tier MD school I got into as an ORM since I read about low tier MD and DO are essentially equal anyway. Sadly no other NY state school gave me love and somehow I didn’t get into other NY DO schools...must have been a poor interviewer...

Wish I thought to research the NYC thing a little better...

Then joke’s on you, you should have cut the umbilical cord and moved away so you could have pursued the dreams you had. Being a DO is not a death sentence by any means, but I think you don’t have insight into how competitive NYP or a hospital of that caliber is going to be. Not just for a DO, but majority of MDs too.

 

[uhmocksuhsillen]

Low tier md and do are in no world, essentially the same. Just look at match lists if you don't believe it.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Believe or not, I actually am one of the many DO students that chose to go DO because how much closer my campus it is to my home. I am only tens of miles away from NY state at least. I had a MCAT of 519 and GPA of 3.7. I just didn’t want to be further away from my family by going to the only lower tier MD school I got into as an ORM since I read about low tier MD and DO are essentially equal anyway. Sadly no other NY state school gave me love and somehow I didn’t get into other NY DO schools...must have been a poor interviewer...

Wish I thought to research the NYC thing a little better...

Whelp you screwed up, if it really matters that much, quit DO school, and apply USMD. I wouldn't ever take this route, but it certainly seems open to you.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I don’t know man, at least on this forum people seem to mostly say that once residency is done DOs are equal to MDs but now I am reaching out to some former grads and friends they are saying that they have gotten some silent rejection and had some difficulty with jobs at hot markets like NYC...more so than they should compared to their MD colleagues. It really sucks and I wish my admin would tell us about this stuff or the importance of USMLE.

Thats true, but before residency we are not, and that affects how we match and where we match. Which in turn affects the opportunities for your career. Its a higher order inequality, if you will.

 

[Emmit]

Top tier MD students from the most prestigious universities still struggle for NYP. You have to understand this is one of the best hospitals in the world, in the greatest city in the world (shout out NYC) where opportunities are limitless. They get applications from the best of the best. You could go to Harvard and get a 265 on the USMLE and still be unsure of matching there. Connections play a key role, LOR from elite research faculty do as well. It's NOT that programs are bias against DOs, it's just that a lot of DOs fail to recognize the quality of their competition in gaining those residency spots.

Listen, from a DO to a DO, don't let anyone tell you what you can and can't do. If you want to match NYP you need to do a TON of research at a prestigious university/hospital and get a lot of publications before you can even think about it. Not because you're a DO, but because that's the standard NYP residency holds itself to. Fact is, I have never heard of a DO match there except for PM&R, Peds, etc. They are just flooded with the most outstanding applications and it's hard to compensate. DO schools, for the most part, lack the resources to shape such an applicant.

 

[943710]

Y'all can really be pretentious as f*** on this website. There are DOs in every specialty. There are DOs who became CEOs of hospitals and pharmaceutical companies. A family med DO was chosen to become a freaking astronaut for Christ's sake. If a DO degree can take you that far, it can take you anywhere.

 

[Chibucks15]

Y'all can really be pretentious as f*** on this website. There are DOs in every specialty. There are DOs who became CEOs of hospitals and pharmaceutical companies. A family med DO was chosen to become a freaking astronaut for Christ's sake. If a DO degree can take you that far, it can take you anywhere.

This is just false though cmon now don't be naive. I'm as big of a 'DOs do just fine' guy as the rest of them but as a DO you ain't getting into the top places unless you're a rockstar or know the whole damn department, honestly you'd probably need both. Academic medicine is different than any other field where name means literally everything.

EDIT: Our old dean left to go work for NASA so I know its possible to go to big things as a DO. But the top ivory tower academic places won't touch a DO with a 10 foot pole, at least until the older generation is out of power

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Top tier MD students from the most prestigious universities still struggle for NYP. You have to understand this is one of the best hospitals in the world, in the greatest city in the world (shout out NYC) where opportunities are limitless. They get applications from the best of the best. You could go to Harvard and get a 265 on the USMLE and still be unsure of matching there. Connections play a key role, LOR from elite research faculty do as well. It's NOT that programs are bias against DOs, it's just that a lot of DOs fail to recognize the quality of their competition in gaining those residency spots.

Listen, from a DO to a DO, don't let anyone tell you what you can and can't do. If you want to match NYP you need to do a TON of research at a prestigious university/hospital and get a lot of publications before you can even think about it. Not because you're a DO, but because that's the standard NYP residency holds itself to. Fact is, I have never heard of a DO match there except for PM&R, Peds, etc. They are just flooded with the most outstanding applications and it's hard to compensate. DO schools, for the most part, lack the resources to shape such an applicant.

Thus far the only programmes I've seen DOs in at NYP have been in PM&R, FM,EM (before it became more competitive - they havent matched one in the last couple of cycles) and I believe there was one DO in psych at cornell. Otherwise, while they aren't unheardof, they are few and far between )

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Y'all can really be pretentious as f*** on this website. There are DOs in every specialty. There are DOs who became CEOs of hospitals and pharmaceutical companies. A family med DO was chosen to become a freaking astronaut for Christ's sake. If a DO degree can take you that far, it can take you anywhere.

Yeah DOs working in those fields is not the same as the DO degree getting you into any residency, which is what we are talking about. Nice strawman though.

What does a DO being an astronaut have to to with anything we are talking about? A DO was surgeon general, means nothing to this conversation.

 

[Lawpy]

View attachment 240126

Yeah DOs working in those fields is not the same as the DO degree getting you into any residency, which is what we are talking about. Nice strawman though.

What does a DO being an astronaut have to to with anything we are talking about? A DO was surgeon general, means nothing to this conversation.

@Dr.McNinja approves the use of the meme 👍

 

[deleted950463]

Y'all can really be pretentious as f*** on this website. There are DOs in every specialty. There are DOs who became CEOs of hospitals and pharmaceutical companies. A family med DO was chosen to become a freaking astronaut for Christ's sake. If a DO degree can take you that far, it can take you anywhere.

I want to believe, man! Is there anyway I can make it to a big academic hospital as staff or good private practice group in radiology in NYC? Someone told me that those groups can be really picky.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I want to believe, man!

Obviously... I mean you are asking advice from a poster whose third post was trying to use the fact that a DO became an astronaut once as evidence that the degree won't hold you back 🙄

Is there anyway I can make it to a big academic hospital as staff or good private practice group in radiology in NYC?

You can do residency at a big name academic place and make baller connections and get lucky. The highest ranked radiology program that has ever taken a DO is the Cleveland Clinic I believe. You need to accept that you will not have the same opportunities that you would have had if you went MD.

 

[deleted950463]

Just googled NYC private practice radiology groups. Not a single DO in the 3-4 practices I’ve seen in the first page, between 30-50 rads overall! I can’t post link yet 🙁 but i’ll keep looking.

Are there DO rads in NYC? I supposed I can always do telerads...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Just googled NYC private practice radiology groups. Not a single DO in the 3-4 practices I’ve seen in the first page, between 30-50 rads overall! I can’t post link yet 🙁 but i’ll keep looking.

Are there DO rads in NYC? I supposed I can always do telerads...

Seriously?.... NYC is the biggest city in America, with two DO schools and you are asking if there are DO radiologists there?

Maybe you should stop obsessing over doing Rads in NYC and go focus more on studying for your next test.

 

[deleted950463]

Seriously?.... NYC is the biggest city in America, with two DO schools and you are asking if there are DO radiologists there?

Maybe you should stop obsessing over doing Rads in NYC and go focus more on studying for your next test.

I am doing fine, thank you for asking, consistently scoring above 90 percentile of my class in tests I’ve taken so far while I am already trying to study board relevant materials our classes are hitting. I have always been good at getting good grades and good exam scores.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

I am doing fine, thank you for asking, consistently scoring above 90 percentile of my class in tests I’ve taken so far while I am already trying to study board relevant materials our classes are hitting. I have always been good at getting good grades and good exam scores.

Now you just sound like a prick dude.

 

[Mass Effect]

This is just false though cmon now don't be naive. I'm as big of a 'DOs do just fine' guy as the rest of them but as a DO you ain't getting into the top places unless you're a rockstar or know the whole damn department, honestly you'd probably need both. Academic medicine is different than any other field where name means literally everything.

EDIT: Our old dean left to go work for NASA so I know its possible to go to big things as a DO. But the top ivory tower academic places won't touch a DO with a 10 foot pole, at least until the older generation is out of power

Come hang out with me sometime. I'll dispel you of that myth.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I am doing fine, thank you for asking, consistently scoring above 90 percentile of my class in tests I’ve taken so far while I am already trying to study board relevant materials our classes are hitting. I have always been good at getting good grades and good exam scores.

Nice, me too. You should still stop worrying about rads in NYC the way you are.

Come hang out with me sometime. I'll dispel you of that myth.

Define “top place.”

 

[Mass Effect]

Define “top place.”

One of those Ivory Towers.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

One of those Ivory Towers.

You’re going to have to also say the field. Being an average applicant in a “top” FM program is different than a top rads program.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Y'all can really be pretentious as f*** on this website. There are DOs in every specialty. There are DOs who became CEOs of hospitals and pharmaceutical companies. A family med DO was chosen to become a freaking astronaut for Christ's sake. If a DO degree can take you that far, it can take you anywhere.

There are lottery winners too.

 

[Mass Effect]

You’re going to have to also say the field. Being an average applicant in a “top” FM program is different than a top rads program.

Psych.

 

[Chibucks15]

Psych.

Congrats and I honestly mean that. But there are always exceptions. I hate that its a fact but it is. I'm glad you bucked the trend and got in. Be our mole on the inside and change the culture haha

 

[DarkHorizon]

I am doing fine, thank you for asking, consistently scoring above 90 percentile of my class in tests I’ve taken so far while I am already trying to study board relevant materials our classes are hitting. I have always been good at getting good grades and good exam scores.

Then stop worrying, only thing you can do at this time is to do well and give yourself a chance. Rest will fall into place, if not at NYp, then some other good hospital. NYP is not the end all be all or anything.

 

[libertyyne]

No use in complaining at this point.
Put in the work. Usmle step1 245+, publications in the field. Aoa, Honorss in all rotations. great Away rotations. Maybe a research year. And see where that gets you. You have to get a resume that justifies placement at nyp.

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

Thus far the only programmes I've seen DOs in at NYP have been in PM&R, FM,EM (before it became more competitive - they havent matched one in the last couple of cycles) and I believe there was one DO in psych at cornell. Otherwise, while they aren't unheardof, they are few and far between )

The guy who matched Cornell psych was somewhat of a celebrity before med school

 

[allantois]

“Always got top grades and scores,” but only made it to DO 🙄

 

[ohmanwaddup]

“Always got top grades and scores,” but only made it to DO 🙄

This hurts but you right. Freshmen year and stubbornness on the MCAT decided DO for me

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

“Always got top grades and scores,” but only made it to DO 🙄

They had a 3.7/516 and had an MD acceptance.