Worried about grades/chances..

[bschaefer97]

Hello all,

I just bombed a test in O Chem II, and I was just wondering how everything shaped up so far grade- and EC-wise. This has likely been covered in a different thread, if so, just LMK and I will check it out. Just a bit worried about how this bad chem grade will affect my chances.

For background, I go to a state university (ASU....*), and plan on applying to pharmacy schools throughout the country (a few really good schools, a few more average schools, and obviously one or two fall-back schools). I am going into my Junior year now (Fall 2017), and expect to graduate in Spring 2019 with a degree in Biology with a concentration in Neurobiology, Physiology and Behavior. I am considering PharmD/PhD programs as well. I am in the honors college at my Uni, if that is anything to consider.

*I know ASU is certainly the butt of many jokes in terms of being a degree-mill or whatever. I don't disagree that it comes off (or is) what people think of it, and I'm mostly curious to see if pharm schools consider this as a big factor when looking at my app. Realistically, I'm sure if my GPA is great and PCAT is as well, they won't have an issue since that pretty much shows that the courses were rigorous enough to prep me.

Current Grades/Expected for this semester:

(SCIENCES)
Gen Chem I: A
Gen Chem II: A
Gen Bio I: A
Gen Bio II: A
Precalc: B+
Calculus: A
Biostatistics: A
Organic Chem I: B
Organic Chem I Lab: A
Organic Chem II: C (possibly B if I somehow kill the final...)
Organic Chem II Lab: A
General Genetics: B
SOLUR Seminar: Pass/Fail (Pass)
Psychology I: A
Organic Evolution: B
Animal Behavior: A

(NON-SCIENCES)
Human Event I: A
Human Event II: A
MED 100: A+
ASU 101: A+ (lol)
ENG 102: A+
Medical Anthropology: A-
Research Methods: A

Current *estimated* cumulative GPA: 3.78-3.80

EC's:
- I have been doing research** in a lab at Barrow Neurological Institute since late in my freshman year.
- SOLUR Researcher (Basically a selective program to provide funding for Undergrads in life science research)
- ASU Academic Bowl team member for my college
- Chemistry Lab instructor at ASU (since beginning Soph. year)
- Undergrad Student Gov. Senator for my College (Freshman year)
- Member of Pre-pharmacy club
- Member of ASU Neuroscience Society
- Member of ASU Chess Club
- Working as a Pharmacy Tech over the summer and likely into the next years to come.

**I wasn't sure if this also counts as volunteering, as I do it for free. I read that you can't "double-dip" to call it both research and volunteering, but just wanted to hear from you guys. If not I will start volunteering somewhere else this summer to get ample hours in.

If there are any significant EC's I should be starting now please let me know... I know there are quite a few that schools require and a lot more that they like to see, but its hard to fit all of them in with the current course load.

I hope that provides enough info, and thank you to anyone that can help me out here! Let me know if I should include anything else in this post, as well

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[AsuPharm]

Did my undergrad at ASU, 3.3 GPA 80 on PCAT and was accepted to all 8 programs to which I applied. Your resume would make you competitive to go to med school. I have 3 friends at UAs med school who had stats similar stats to yours. Read and heed the warnings about the pharmacy school saturation kid. You can use your undergrad get your degree and actually make something of yourself by going to med school instead of competing with the idiots on this forum who are being accepted into pharm school with 30 PCAT percentiles and 2.6 GPAs for crappy part time jobs when you would graduate. You would be accepted to any pharmacy program in the country, Im not kidding. However, I believe youre wasting what you are by going to pharm school. Quit selling yourself short by putting yourself in the same league as the kids who can barely read and are accepted into pharm school, its not comptetitve whatsoever trust me.

 

[cakezyum]

To be honest, you're very competitive from your high GPA and ample amount of extracurricular activities. I wouldn't sweat on a C. PCAT with at least a 70+ is good enough.

 

[bschaefer97]

Did my undergrad at ASU, 3.3 GPA 80 on PCAT and was accepted to all 8 programs to which I applied. Your resume would make you competitive to go to med school. I have 3 friends at UAs med school who had stats similar stats to yours. Read and heed the warnings about the pharmacy school saturation kid. You can use your undergrad get your degree and actually make something of yourself by going to med school instead of competing with the idiots on this forum who are being accepted into pharm school with 30 PCAT percentiles and 2.6 GPAs for crappy part time jobs when you would graduate. You would be accepted to any pharmacy program in the country, Im not kidding. However, I believe youre wasting what you are by going to pharm school. Quit selling yourself short by putting yourself in the same league as the kids who can barely read and are accepted into pharm school, its not comptetitve whatsoever trust me.

Thanks for the suggestions. This reply is a lot to take in, so I have a few questions and possibly a long stream of consciousness for you if you don't mind. First off, I took your advice and read up about the awful future of jobs in pharmacy, so that definitely worries me. I chose pharmacy over medicine just last year mostly because of a few key factors: 1) not sure I'll ever get used to bodily fluids/cadaver dissections, 2) the workload is unfathomable, and 3) With my GPA falling, and having a C on my transcript, I doubt any top medical school would consider my application.
The issue here is that its becoming too late for me to decide, as I *need* to start some sort of clinical internship or shadowing so I can have clinical/pharmacy experience ASAP, and make it show that I know what I want to do (is it too clear that I have no idea? lol). On that note, pharmacy school sounded better to me (less stressful workload, no gross anatomy/dissections, cheaper) and as you said, if everyone there is so stupid, I would have minimal competition for a top spot. However, if you really believe that my app would be competitive for Med school, how feasible would it be that I could get accepted into a good school? UA has good reviews, but I have never really talked to anyone who went there, so how do you friends like it?
As I'm typing this I realize this reply is awfully disorganized and lengthy, so please forgive me. I feel a little scatter-brained right now (just took that O chem test that decides my fate). Final question for you though, do you or your UA Med buddies have any recommendations for EC's or experience that would be influential on my app that I am lacking? I know I need to shadow, but how important is getting involved with on-campus pre-med clubs? I would assume they're not too heavily considered, but it might show that my interest is strong and I know what I'm getting into.
Thank you so much for your insight/help, and please take your time responding!

 

[Apples2Oranges]

Thanks for the suggestions. This reply is a lot to take in, so I have a few questions and possibly a long stream of consciousness for you if you don't mind. First off, I took your advice and read up about the awful future of jobs in pharmacy, so that definitely worries me. I chose pharmacy over medicine just last year mostly because of a few key factors: 1) not sure I'll ever get used to bodily fluids/cadaver dissections, 2) the workload is unfathomable, and 3) With my GPA falling, and having a C on my transcript, I doubt any top medical school would consider my application.
The issue here is that its becoming too late for me to decide, as I *need* to start some sort of clinical internship or shadowing so I can have clinical/pharmacy experience ASAP, and make it show that I know what I want to do (is it too clear that I have no idea? lol). On that note, pharmacy school sounded better to me (less stressful workload, no gross anatomy/dissections, cheaper) and as you said, if everyone there is so stupid, I would have minimal competition for a top spot. However, if you really believe that my app would be competitive for Med school, how feasible would it be that I could get accepted into a good school? UA has good reviews, but I have never really talked to anyone who went there, so how do you friends like it?
As I'm typing this I realize this reply is awfully disorganized and lengthy, so please forgive me. I feel a little scatter-brained right now (just took that O chem test that decides my fate). Final question for you though, do you or your UA Med buddies have any recommendations for EC's or experience that would be influential on my app that I am lacking? I know I need to shadow, but how important is getting involved with on-campus pre-med clubs? I would assume they're not too heavily considered, but it might show that my interest is strong and I know what I'm getting into.
Thank you so much for your insight/help, and please take your time responding!

I've seen people with Cs get into med school. A close friend of mind got a C in a compsci course and got into a top 10 med school (albeit, he got a 36 on the MCAT at the time and a 3.9 gpa). Regardless, you can get into a state med school, either MD or DO. It's whether or not you want to do it. If med school isn't for you, consider dentistry/PA/NP for less time. Dentistry is 4 yrs but you can work afterwards. PA and NP have less stressful lives.

You just need to do well on the MCAT. But keep in mind a lot of people with stellar CVs are competing with people with amazing CVs. Some people with 4.0s don't get accepted. But it's worth a shot!

And saying accepted pharm students can barely read is a bit harsh. There are a lot of smart people in pharmacy and it used to be a very competitive field. But people are right. Diploma mills have ruined it accepting sub-par students and no one is doing anything about it. Not even the pharmacy students or pharmacists that want change but only complain on internet forums. Unlike nurses who have large unions and attempt to advance their degrees, we have some pharmacists/pharmacy students just bringing doom and gloom. It's going down pretty badly.

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

Thanks for the suggestions. This reply is a lot to take in, so I have a few questions and possibly a long stream of consciousness for you if you don't mind. First off, I took your advice and read up about the awful future of jobs in pharmacy, so that definitely worries me. I chose pharmacy over medicine just last year mostly because of a few key factors: 1) not sure I'll ever get used to bodily fluids/cadaver dissections, 2) the workload is unfathomable, and 3) With my GPA falling, and having a C on my transcript, I doubt any top medical school would consider my application.
The issue here is that its becoming too late for me to decide, as I *need* to start some sort of clinical internship or shadowing so I can have clinical/pharmacy experience ASAP, and make it show that I know what I want to do (is it too clear that I have no idea? lol). On that note, pharmacy school sounded better to me (less stressful workload, no gross anatomy/dissections, cheaper) and as you said, if everyone there is so stupid, I would have minimal competition for a top spot. However, if you really believe that my app would be competitive for Med school, how feasible would it be that I could get accepted into a good school? UA has good reviews, but I have never really talked to anyone who went there, so how do you friends like it?
As I'm typing this I realize this reply is awfully disorganized and lengthy, so please forgive me. I feel a little scatter-brained right now (just took that O chem test that decides my fate). Final question for you though, do you or your UA Med buddies have any recommendations for EC's or experience that would be influential on my app that I am lacking? I know I need to shadow, but how important is getting involved with on-campus pre-med clubs? I would assume they're not too heavily considered, but it might show that my interest is strong and I know what I'm getting into.
Thank you so much for your insight/help, and please take your time responding!

I had multiple Cs. Also, I guarantee you get into any and every DO school in the country, plus, with a smart school list, many MD schools. What "top" med schools don't take you is subjective anyway... but your stats would be competitive for UVA, UPenn, Michigan, etc. No one cares about one C. They care about how you handled your classes as a whole. It is true, though, that the MCAT would be a determining factor for your chances. With a 3.8, I have serious doubts that you'd score lower than like 80th percentile. If I were you, I'd start shadowing some docs and studying for the MCAT. Apply early and if you get into multiple MD schools, then run and never look back at pharmacy. The workload isn't *that* much more in med school vs. pharm school. And as other posters have mentioned, pharmacy is a sinking ship. I worked as a pharmacy tech for 6+ years while in HS / undergrad and even back then it was a nightmare. Please seriously reconsider and start the preparations for med school soon.

 

[bschaefer97]

I had multiple Cs. Also, I guarantee you get into any and every DO school in the country, plus, with a smart school list, many MD schools. What "top" med schools don't take you is subjective anyway... but your stats would be competitive for UVA, UPenn, Michigan, etc. No one cares about one C. They care about how you handled your classes as a whole. It is true, though, that the MCAT would be a determining factor for your chances. With a 3.8, I have serious doubts that you'd score lower than like 80th percentile. If I were you, I'd start shadowing some docs and studying for the MCAT. Apply early and if you get into multiple MD schools, then run and never look back at pharmacy. The workload isn't *that* much more in med school vs. pharm school. And as other posters have mentioned, pharmacy is a sinking ship. I worked as a pharmacy tech for 6+ years while in HS / undergrad and even back then it was a nightmare. Please seriously reconsider and start the preparations for med school soon.

Thanks for the help. I'm planning on completing a internship for credit next semester in either neurology, endocrinology or oncology for school credit. I'm also starting a non-profit to provide heat protection (sunscreen, bottled water, hats) to the Phoenix homeless in order to help them endure the brutal summer heat. I'll also likely either be volunteering in the ER of my local hospital over the summer or working as a scribe. I'm taking a full year of biochem during my Junior year as well as courses in Immunology, Physiology and Cell Bio to prepare for the MCAT while studying my other previous MCAT classes (o chem, etc). I'll probably start studying over summer to cement the old information before I begin trying to learn the new stuff, and then go all out once Winter 2017 hits. (This is just my action plan thus far).

As far as that C goes, I have to admit that the reason I'm in this position is because I slept through the first of three midterm exams, lol. So I doubt I'll really mess up the chem section of the MCAT, and really hope that scoring high on it will bolster my chances and kinda push that C to the side of my application.

Anyway, do you happen to know any resource where I could find a mock AMCAS application so I can go through it and see what I should be doing with my time? It would make a good deal of sense that if there's a space on the app for ____, I should probably find a way to fill it. I searched around for one with no luck, and don't want to make an account with AMCAS before it's time to actually apply. Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

Thanks for the help. I'm planning on completing a internship for credit next semester in either neurology, endocrinology or oncology for school credit. I'm also starting a non-profit to provide heat protection (sunscreen, bottled water, hats) to the Phoenix homeless in order to help them endure the brutal summer heat. I'll also likely either be volunteering in the ER of my local hospital over the summer or working as a scribe. I'm taking a full year of biochem during my Junior year as well as courses in Immunology, Physiology and Cell Bio to prepare for the MCAT while studying my other previous MCAT classes (o chem, etc). I'll probably start studying over summer to cement the old information before I begin trying to learn the new stuff, and then go all out once Winter 2017 hits. (This is just my action plan thus far).

As far as that C goes, I have to admit that the reason I'm in this position is because I slept through the first of three midterm exams, lol. So I doubt I'll really mess up the chem section of the MCAT, and really hope that scoring high on it will bolster my chances and kinda push that C to the side of my application.

Anyway, do you happen to know any resource where I could find a mock AMCAS application so I can go through it and see what I should be doing with my time? It would make a good deal of sense that if there's a space on the app for ____, I should probably find a way to fill it. I searched around for one with no luck, and don't want to make an account with AMCAS before it's time to actually apply. Thanks in advance for any help!

You can make an account (it's free) and even go as far as filling most of it out and so long as you DON'T add any schools / become complete and pay the dues, then it won't make a difference when you do it.

By that I mean, you will only be considered a "re-applicant" by becoming complete (listing schools and then paying for them) in a given cycle. So if you don't pay for any programs, and thus do not become "complete", then there is no disadvantage to going ahead and making an account now to see what you need. If you're still hesitant, I can look through my old amcas and PM you a brief summary of what the sections are.

As far as your overall goals, I really think you should continue your current trajectory for undergrad and really nail the MCAT and you'll be set at a nice MD school. Like I said, I had a ton of experience in pharmacy and I didn't know one single pharmacist who wouldn't go back in time and go to med school if given the chance. I think you're underestimating the work it takes to get through pharmacy school - might as well go all the way and become a doc. Plus you seem hard-working so you should be fine. Just my $0.02

 

[AsuPharm]

Thanks for the suggestions. This reply is a lot to take in, so I have a few questions and possibly a long stream of consciousness for you if you don't mind. First off, I took your advice and read up about the awful future of jobs in pharmacy, so that definitely worries me. I chose pharmacy over medicine just last year mostly because of a few key factors: 1) not sure I'll ever get used to bodily fluids/cadaver dissections, 2) the workload is unfathomable, and 3) With my GPA falling, and having a C on my transcript, I doubt any top medical school would consider my application.
The issue here is that its becoming too late for me to decide, as I *need* to start some sort of clinical internship or shadowing so I can have clinical/pharmacy experience ASAP, and make it show that I know what I want to do (is it too clear that I have no idea? lol). On that note, pharmacy school sounded better to me (less stressful workload, no gross anatomy/dissections, cheaper) and as you said, if everyone there is so stupid, I would have minimal competition for a top spot. However, if you really believe that my app would be competitive for Med school, how feasible would it be that I could get accepted into a good school? UA has good reviews, but I have never really talked to anyone who went there, so how do you friends like it?
As I'm typing this I realize this reply is awfully disorganized and lengthy, so please forgive me. I feel a little scatter-brained right now (just took that O chem test that decides my fate). Final question for you though, do you or your UA Med buddies have any recommendations for EC's or experience that would be influential on my app that I am lacking? I know I need to shadow, but how important is getting involved with on-campus pre-med clubs? I would assume they're not too heavily considered, but it might show that my interest is strong and I know what I'm getting into.
Thank you so much for your insight/help, and please take your time responding!

The future of the profession really is bleak, some government studies place that 50,000 pharmacist will be out of work by 2025, and with the current amount of graduates I would have to agree.
I hear all the time about not dealing with bodily fluids, but even working in a retail pharmacy people will come up and show you rashes, you'll be doing immunizations, etc. so unfortunately theres no escaping man.
The workload of med school is no joke, but you seem like you've been very busy in undergrad so it wouldn't be something impossible.
One C on your transcripts won't kill you. Just don't make it a habit (yes, I took Dr. Gould's class too I get it).
If you want, we could meet up in person. If you join your school's pre-pharm club I would see it and could DM you on Facebook if you really want to see how bad some of the students that are being let in these days. I'm talking borderline cannot color within the lines (with a 30 on the PCAT I'm not sure they can anyways, lol a 30 on the MCAT isn't a good score let alone the PCAT) Don't want to dox myself here because I would catch a ton of heat from the people who deny the truth.

As far as getting experience goes, you need to find something that you are passionate about. These schools have their interview processes down to a science. If you do something just to pad your resume they'll sniff it out. One of my friends (our high school valedictorian!) just accepted a (an actual MD) residency to an OB/GYN program. She always knew thats what she wanted to do so she shadowed an OB for a few years. You don't need to pick your field right now, but whatever you do to get experience make sure you are actually interested in it.

Head over to the pre-med forums and see if you can ask somebody (who isn't pretentious) about your next steps. Don't be intimidated by them, a lot of them grew up privileged and are grade-A jerkoffs but you will get the information you need. This leads me to my last point, you're gonna need to grow thick skin if you want to be in the medical field (pharmacy, MD,whatever). I guarantee somebody there will tell you that you aren't a good candidate, but what do they know they aren't in med school yet. Just brush off the pretentiousness and take their advice.

 

[bschaefer97]

You can make an account (it's free) and even go as far as filling most of it out and so long as you DON'T add any schools / become complete and pay the dues, then it won't make a difference when you do it.

By that I mean, you will only be considered a "re-applicant" by becoming complete (listing schools and then paying for them) in a given cycle. So if you don't pay for any programs, and thus do not become "complete", then there is no disadvantage to going ahead and making an account now to see what you need. If you're still hesitant, I can look through my old amcas and PM you a brief summary of what the sections are.

As far as your overall goals, I really think you should continue your current trajectory for undergrad and really nail the MCAT and you'll be set at a nice MD school. Like I said, I had a ton of experience in pharmacy and I didn't know one single pharmacist who wouldn't go back in time and go to med school if given the chance. I think you're underestimating the work it takes to get through pharmacy school - might as well go all the way and become a doc. Plus you seem hard-working so you should be fine. Just my $0.02

Again, I really appreciate you coming on here and helping out. I went ahead and checked out the AMCAS application, and it allowed me to enter some info and check out the process. Seems pretty straight forward. If you're still around, how would you estimate my chances are at schools like University of Washington - Seattle, UCSD/UCSB/UCSF, USC, etc? Those are my dream schools, particularly UW and UCSF. But I understand that they are top-tier, and I don't really posses a *crazy* high GPA or insane EC's like starting an AIDs clinic in Uganda, or whatever. Just trying to see where I stack up, but it's sorta tough to weed that info out of the millions of "chances" forums here on SDN, lol.

Thanks again for any help!

 

[bschaefer97]

The future of the profession really is bleak, some government studies place that 50,000 pharmacist will be out of work by 2025, and with the current amount of graduates I would have to agree.
I hear all the time about not dealing with bodily fluids, but even working in a retail pharmacy people will come up and show you rashes, you'll be doing immunizations, etc. so unfortunately theres no escaping man.
The workload of med school is no joke, but you seem like you've been very busy in undergrad so it wouldn't be something impossible.
One C on your transcripts won't kill you. Just don't make it a habit (yes, I took Dr. Gould's class too I get it).
If you want, we could meet up in person. If you join your school's pre-pharm club I would see it and could DM you on Facebook if you really want to see how bad some of the students that are being let in these days. I'm talking borderline cannot color within the lines (with a 30 on the PCAT I'm not sure they can anyways, lol a 30 on the MCAT isn't a good score let alone the PCAT) Don't want to dox myself here because I would catch a ton of heat from the people who deny the truth.

As far as getting experience goes, you need to find something that you are passionate about. These schools have their interview processes down to a science. If you do something just to pad your resume they'll sniff it out. One of my friends (our high school valedictorian!) just accepted a (an actual MD) residency to an OB/GYN program. She always knew thats what she wanted to do so she shadowed an OB for a few years. You don't need to pick your field right now, but whatever you do to get experience make sure you are actually interested in it.

Head over to the pre-med forums and see if you can ask somebody (who isn't pretentious) about your next steps. Don't be intimidated by them, a lot of them grew up privileged and are grade-A jerkoffs but you will get the information you need. This leads me to my last point, you're gonna need to grow thick skin if you want to be in the medical field (pharmacy, MD,whatever). I guarantee somebody there will tell you that you aren't a good candidate, but what do they know they aren't in med school yet. Just brush off the pretentiousness and take their advice.

I've pretty much given up on pharm after reading all of the doom and gloom about the deep decline in job availability, and I feel as though I just didn't feel like my grades would get me into a good med school and the next best route was pharmacy. A bad grade got me in the dumps and, man, I need to get past that. That really didn't take long... lol. I'll go ahead and send you a PM or whatever I can do (I don't know how this site works too much yet, just browse on here every now and then) or I can shoot you my email or something. If that doesn't gel with you, no worries, just let me know. Thanks again for the help!

 

[AsuPharm]

Again, I really appreciate you coming on here and helping out. I went ahead and checked out the AMCAS application, and it allowed me to enter some info and check out the process. Seems pretty straight forward. If you're still around, how would you estimate my chances are at schools like University of Washington - Seattle, UCSD/UCSB/UCSF, USC, etc? Those are my dream schools, particularly UW and UCSF. But I understand that they are top-tier, and I don't really posses a *crazy* high GPA or insane EC's like starting an AIDs clinic in Uganda, or whatever. Just trying to see where I stack up, but it's sorta tough to weed that info out of the millions of "chances" forums here on SDN, lol.

Thanks again for any help!

Successful Applicant Profile: Class of 2020 | UCSF Medical Education | Admissions

^Each school will have their own page like this, just like pharm schools do. I would imagine a master list exists somewhere on the internet about every school but I couldn't find it. Med school is very competitive and applying to 20 schools is very common.

 

[bschaefer97]

Successful Applicant Profile: Class of 2020 | UCSF Medical Education | Admissions

^Each school will have their own page like this, just like pharm schools do. I would imagine a master list exists somewhere on the internet about every school but I couldn't find it. Med school is very competitive and applying to 20 schools is very common.

Gotcha. Checked it out, and damn, I need to boost my GPA and kill the MCAT.
I went ahead and joined that pre-pharm group on FB, feel free to DM, I should be easy to spot.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Users who wish to ask questions about medical school applications should post in those relevant forums, otherwise please stay on topic here.