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Originally posted by Insert
Onmyway, you suggested that you were giving us insight from actual DOs. Two DOs are not a large enough statistical sample to have an impact. Perhaps, if you had said 50 DOs all told you they wish they were MDs that would have some impact.

I probably could find 2 MDs who wished they went DO for various reasons such as for money reasons, geographical reasons, or just to learn manipulation. Maybe they wouldn't feel like going to extra classes to learn manipulation as MDs.

The point is, your examples really do not show much.

How about the point is to each their own!
 
Originally posted by Insert
This is true, but in order to get the word out about DOs, we must introduce the topic or else ignorance will persist. Just look at how JayMiranti is so oblivious to DOs that he thinks it's a separate profession from MDs. 🙄

To emphasize that it is not a separate profession here is the Radiology residency program at University of Pittsburgh one of the highest ranked allopathic med schools in the country. Who is the director of the program? Philip D. Orons D.O.!

http://www.radiology.upmc.edu/residency/
 
Originally posted by skypilot
To emphasize that it is not a separate profession here is the Radiology residency program at University of Pittsburgh one of the highest ranked allopathic med schools in the country. Who is the director of the program? Philip D. Orons D.O.!

http://www.radiology.upmc.edu/residency/
Nice skypilot. There are several prominent DOs working at allopathic schools. I do not see how anyone can think the two are different professions.
 
DO's dont have equal opportunities. Ask ANY D.O. you want. It is a simple fact that I have verified with D.O.'s I worked with. There is bias against them, there will always someone asking you what the heck is a D.O. and there are always people who look down on DO's. One must outweigh these negatives with the DO philosophy.
 
Originally posted by OnMyWayThere
DO's dont have equal opportunities. Ask ANY D.O. you want.
DOs can enter into DO residencies as well as MD residencies. If a DO takes the USMLE and does well in it, he or she will have the same opportunities as their MD colleagues.

Originally posted by OnMyWayThere
There is bias against them...and there are always people who look down on DO's...
True, much like there is bias against and some people look down on caribbean MDs, or minority doctors, or doctors who went to lower tier MD schools. The list goes on and on. Are you going to live through life worrying about what others think?

Originally posted by OnMyWayThere
there will always someone asking you what the heck is a D.O.
This is the only part that you can really argue for those that may not want to be a DO. Some patients may be curious and ask you what it is. Usually, all it would take is a few minutes to explain the difference. If that is so much of a pain that you would rather get rejected over and over again to allopathic schools then you have to get your priorities straight.
 
Originally posted by Insert
True, much like there is bias against and some people look down on caribbean MDs, or minority doctors, or doctors who went to lower tier MD schools. The list goes on and on. Are you going to live through life worrying about what others think?


Some people do worry about how people look at them and live life according to that... you and I aren't in a position to judge those people.

You are here making an issue that everything is equal and I am countering that. My post clearly states some of the differences. Why don't you PM me if you have more to say. You are the type that won't change your mind once you've said something so I'm done with this. I hope others realize, it's NOT THE SAME. It is very different in many aspects.
 
Originally posted by OnMyWayThere
Some people do worry about how people look at them and live life according to that
Maybe you are one of these people?

Originally posted by OnMyWayThere
You are here making an issue that everything is equal and I am countering that.
Actually I wasn't saying everything is equal. I am saying DO is better than MD.
 
Originally posted by Insert
Maybe you are one of these people?

uhmmm. no, you're incorrect again. Sorry. You're on a roll though.

Actually I wasn't saying everything is equal. I am saying DO is better than MD.

oh, thanks for the correction. what would SDN be without people like you? We wouldn't be able to laugh once in a while and that would suck! Thanks for the amusement. I, among other students, appreciate your humor.
 
If you're going to quote me at least don't insert things I didn't say.

How's that for amusement. I stuck my name in the sentence above unintentionally. 🙄
 
I see that you editted your post so as not to look stupid. Whatever.
 
Originally posted by Insert
DOs can enter into DO residencies as well as MD residencies. If a DO takes the USMLE and does well in it, he or she will have the same opportunities as their MD colleagues.

Forgive me for my naivete, but can MDs do residencies in DO programs like derm or opth that are usually competitive in MD where there are many people who don't match? Do alot of DOs apply to allopathic residencies, or is it a relatively low #?

And just in case this is taken as a flame, since things always get twisted on SDN, it's not. I'm just curious if MD people who apply to, say, derm residencies can also apply to DO derm residencies to broaden their chances.
 
Originally posted by Insert
If you're going to quote me at least don't insert things I didn't say.

How's that for amusement. I stuck my name in the sentence above unintentionally. 🙄

Say whaaaat? Everything is quoted. Don't start backing away from what you've said now.
 
Originally posted by Lux Aeterna
Forgive me for my naivete, but can MDs do residencies in DO programs like derm or opth that are usually competitive in MD where there are many people who don't match? Do alot of DOs apply to allopathic residencies, or is it a relatively low #?

And just in case this is taken as a flame, since things always get twisted on SDN, it's not. I'm just curious if MD people who apply to, say, derm residencies can also apply to DO derm residencies to broaden their chances.

MD's cannot do that. Also, the number of DO's applying to allopathic are relatively low. Obviously allopathic prefer allopathic students. It is NOT equal.
 
Originally posted by Lux Aeterna
Forgive me for my naivete, but can MDs do residencies in DO programs like derm or opth that are usually competitive in MD where there are many people who don't match? Do alot of DOs apply to allopathic residencies, or is it a relatively low #?

And just in case this is taken as a flame, since things always get twisted on SDN, it's not. I'm just curious if MD people who apply to, say, derm residencies can also apply to DO derm residencies to broaden their chances.
No. MDs cannot do DO residencies. As one can see, this is another benefit to DOs as they have sole rights to DO residencies. You can't beat that.

For the competitive residencies, many DOs do apply to MD residencies as well as DO residencies increasing their chances of getting into a program. Also, many DOs take the USMLE to put them on the same playing field as MDs so the program directors can more accurately compare them.
 
Originally posted by Insert
No. MDs cannot do DO residencies. As one can see, this is another benefit to DOs as they have sole rights to DO residencies. You can't beat that.

For the competitive residencies, many DOs do apply to MD residencies as well as DO residencies increasing their chances of getting into a program. Also, many DOs take the USMLE to put them on the same playing field as MDs so the program directors can more accurately compare them.

Are you upset at a choice you made to go D.O. or something? It seems like you're trying to justify or you have a void somewhere you're trying to fill. Look, people are people and they live for something. Whether that is Nursing, selling shoes, becoming an MD, taking over a family business, that's all cool. Quit claiming one is better than other. Nothing is better as certain things make certain people happier and those are the best things for that particular person. DO might be better for you, cool. It IS NOT better for everybody. Sorry to burst your bubble.
 
Originally posted by OnMyWayThere
MD's cannot do that. Also, the number of DO's applying to allopathic are relatively low. Obviously allopathic prefer allopathic students. It is NOT equal.
It's not about allopathic preferring allopathic. If a DO has better USMLE numbers than an MD and is a better candidate, he or she will get that spot over the MD.

There seems to be low numbers of DOs applying only because the number of DO graduates is low and about 50% enter into primary care. However, there are some DO derm, rads, neurosurgery, and the like that only go to DOs.
 
Originally posted by Insert
It's not about allopathic preferring allopathic. If a DO has better USMLE numbers than an MD and is a better candidate, he or she will get that spot over the MD.

Being you are very biased towards DO and that you are trying very hard to prove a point here, your post has NO validity.

To the poster asking the question about numbers, if you want accurate information, you can check with schools and residency programs to get the honest truth about it all as it's not equal opportunity. If A equals C and C does not equal G, then A does not equal G. DO does not equal MD. Good luck.
 
Originally posted by OnMyWayThere
Being you are very biased towards DO and that you are trying very hard to prove a point here, your post has NO validity.

To the poster asking the question about numbers, if you want accurate information, you can check with schools and residency programs to get the honest truth about it all as it's not equal opportunity. If A equals C and C does not equal G, then A does not equal G. DO does not equal MD. Good luck.
You are trying to say that allopathic prefers allopathic, which in itself has no validity. If my answer has no validity then why is it that each year hundreds of DOs enter into competitive MD residencies. The word competitive in itself means that there already is alot of MDs vying for the position. Obviously these DOs were better candidates and they beat these MDs in their residencies.

The reason is there isn't some competition between MDs and DOs in the healthcare system. A program director will get the best man for the job whether that be MD or DO.
 
If an MD and DO are both applying for an allopathic residency spot and both have the same scores, I GUARANTEE YOU the MD will get chosen. No questions asked. This is not equality my friend. There are much more MD residency spots and that's why MD is so popular. If you're MD, your chances are GREATLY increased, significantly.This thread is getting old, peaceout and good luck with your future endeavors. You shouldn't try so hard to justify your decisions. Everyone should do what they dreamed for and we should all accept people for what they do. Nobody is superior or inferior.
 
Originally posted by Insert
You are trying to say that allopathic prefers allopathic, which in itself has no validity. If my answer has no validity then why is it that each year hundreds of DOs enter into competitive MD residencies. The word competitive in itself means that there already is alot of MDs vying for the position. Obviously these DOs were better candidates and they beat these MDs in their residencies.

The reason is there isn't some competition between MDs and DOs in the healthcare system. A program director will get the best man for the job whether that be MD or DO.

Your naivete and your lack of knowlege will come back to bite you in the a$$ a few years from now. There are almost no DOs in the extra-competetive fields: Optho, Derm, Ortho, Rads. It is a fact. You can go on telling yourself that DO>>MD. If you say it enough times, you may believe it. The truth will hurt in March of your 4th year.
 
Originally posted by idq1i
Your naivete and your lack of knowlege will come back to bite you in the a$$ a few years from now. There almost no DOs in the extra-competetive fields: Optho, Derm, Ortho, Rads. It is a fact. You can go on telling yourself that DO>>MD. If you say it enough times, you may believe it. The truth will hurt in March of your 4th year.

I'd believe a medical student over Insert. Thank you for your verification. goodnight.
 
So I guess a first year MD student no less knows how continuing medical education works in our country. :laugh:

DOs will always still have excellent opportunities in both the DO and MD fields as long as he or she is competitive.
 
Originally posted by Insert
So I guess a first year MD student no less knows how continuing medical education works in our country. :laugh:

DOs will always still have excellent opportunities in both the DO and MD fields as long as he or she is competitive.

Yep, I "no less knows" how GME (not CME - goes to show how little you really know about the field) works. You don't have to trust me - look up some statistics.

I wish you luck in your DO education. I'd strongly suggest that next time, you do some research before making silly statements.

edit: in response to your last post

The only competetive positions in that list are: rads and neurosurgery and optho. Psych and neuro are not competetive. Rads hospital list is....ehem...no comment. Gas is not particularly competetive.

Note: I didn't say that DOs don't train in supercompetetive residencies. I said that MDs dominate these fields. 99.9% of these positions are allopathic, too.

I'm not judging the DO education. I'm simply providing the facts.
 
Let this guy run his mouth... who cares. Next thing you know, he will be convincing everyone that a Podiatrist can get a degree of medicine with an extra course. It's all good. Just hope nieve people on SDN don't buy into this. I'm putting a nail in the coffin because this is a dead thread. Later.
 
Hey insert, if you didn't make it into any DO schools this year, would you start applying to MD schools and DO schools next year?
 
Yes if I didn't make it I would have applied MD and may have settled for it. I already said this in an earlier post on this thread.

Onmyway, all you do is try to put me down but provide no evidence for the supposed idea that DOs have it worse than MDs. I gave you a match list supporting my position and you have provided no evidence supporting yours. Basically, as a DO you can get into any speciality you want and are not limited. By looking at the match list, to say otherwise is ludicrous.
 
Hey Insert... Let's be objective here. What is your science GPA, cumulative GPA, and MCAT? Don't say it doesn't matter and don't lie!
 
wow... it's great to see that JayMiranti's getting so much wonderful advice.

🙄
 
two things you seemed to have overlooked Insert:

according to your lists, NYCOM had 155 residency placements compared to mayo's 39 (four times fewer students)... that's a substantial difference when you start looking at numbers for specific residencies... especially, for example, the 26 anesthesiology placements (66% of mayo's overall class size). if mayo placed 26 anesthesiology residents, that would not be ideal. so let's look at percentages... 26/155 = 16.8% and 5/39 = 12.8%. thus, maybe mayo is "under-performing" in its ability to crank out anesthesiology residents or maybe, just maybe, since people have free will and the class size is so small there is too much potential for statistical variation to draw any firm conclusions. for example, if only two more mayo grads had decided to do anesthesiology then (7/39 = 17.9%) it would have had a higher percentage than NYCOM. can you see how useless this kind of comparison can be?

also, according to the lists, nearly half of mayo grads do their residences at mayo... which is one of the best all-around hospitals in the country (although i'm a little biased because i'm from MN and my sister works at mayo, but still...).

now, this takes nothing away from the point i think you were trying to make (which is that DOs can, in general, do just as well in residency placements as most MDs). however, just stating random "facts" in defense of that conclusion without any analysis is dangerous.

one final thought, i'm sure that mayo's rating from residency directors is higher than most DO schools, which, perhaps, is a much more telling barometer of the quality of residency placements than numbers or percentages.

aaron
 
Originally posted by hockebob
two things you seemed to have overlooked Insert:

according to your lists, NYCOM had 155 residency placements compared to mayo's 39 (four times fewer students)... that's a substantial difference when you start looking at numbers for specific residencies... especially, for example, the 26 anesthesiology placements (66% of mayo's overall class size). if mayo placed 26 anesthesiology residents, that would not be ideal. so let's look at percentages... 26/155 = 16.8% and 5/39 = 12.8%. thus, maybe mayo is "under-performing" in its ability to crank out anesthesiology residents or maybe, just maybe, since people have free will and the class size is so small there is too much potential for statistical variation to draw any firm conclusions. for example, if only two more mayo grads had decided to do anesthesiology then (7/39 = 17.9%) it would have had a higher percentage than NYCOM. can you see how useless this kind of comparison can be?

also, according to the lists, nearly half of mayo grads do their residences at mayo... which is one of the best all-around hospitals in the country (although i'm a little biased because i'm from MN and my sister works at mayo, but still...).

now, this takes nothing away from the point i think you were trying to make (which is that DOs can, in general, do just as well in residency placements as most MDs). however, just stating random "facts" in defense of that conclusion without any analysis is dangerous.

one final thought, i'm sure that mayo's rating from residency directors is higher than most DO schools, which, perhaps, is a much more telling barometer of the quality of residency placements than numbers or percentages.

aaron
Most of what you said is true. Mayo is one of the best medical schools in the nation. It is interesting to see how a DO school compares with it, and I think it does very well at that.
 
Originally posted by Insert
No. MDs cannot do DO residencies. As one can see, this is another benefit to DOs as they have sole rights to DO residencies. You can't beat that.

Yea we can. They're called MD residencies. "another benefit...sole rights to do residencies", jeez man...get off of your high horse.
 
Originally posted by facted
Yea we can. They're called MD residencies. "another benefit...sole rights to do residencies", jeez man...get off of your high horse.
What are you talking about. That statement was referring to how DOs can apply to AOA- approved residencies and ACGME-approved residencies. They have both options. MDs cannot apply to AOA-approved residencies, but only ACGME-approved residencies. That is a simple fact that you cannot refute. I am not on any high horse. Why don't you try to refute the facts presented instead of insulting me.
 
I forgot to mention to the OP that I think you have a great chance at being accepted to a MD program. I'm not familiar with the other schools, but you definitely stand a high chance at UCONN.

also, doesn't the OP have the ability to delete this thread? please delete this thread. it's so stupid. i'm sorry it got off the topic of your original question.
 
Insert, Why don't you give it a rest. While I find it flattering that my school Nycom is being compaired to Mayo, this thread has gone on too long. Don't get me wrong I'm going to love being a DO but I dont feel you need to preach the cause in an antagonistic and instigative way. Please stop you are embarassing me and a slew of others I'm sure, in no point in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be concidered a rational thought, everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to you. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Seriously though you are making a big deal out of nothing, no one cares.

I cringe when i think about how you will respond to this, hopefully ...you won't.

Yes please delete, this is worthless.
 
Originally posted by Insert
What are you talking about. That statement was referring to how DOs can apply to AOA- approved residencies and ACGME-approved residencies. They have both options. MDs cannot apply to AOA-approved residencies, but only ACGME-approved residencies. That is a simple fact that you cannot refute. I am not on any high horse. Why don't you try to refute the facts presented instead of insulting me.

MDs can't apply to DO residencies? Wow, big loss🙄

As I see it, you are trying to convince yourself that you made the right choice. If you want to work as an IM/Peds/FP, you did. If you want to specialize, you probably didn't.

Go post this q in the osteo/allo/residency forums: Which residencies are better/stronger/more reputable/more competetive/more numerous. Come back when you get a response.
 
to eliminate all this crap about DO vs. MD, the government should make DO schools grant the MD degrees, and MD schools should incorporate some DO phiosophy in its education. how hard is it to do this?
 
Originally posted by Blue_guitar9
Insert, Why don't you give it a rest. While I find it flattering that my school Nycom is being compaired to Mayo, this thread has gone on too long. Don't get me wrong I'm going to love being a DO but I dont feel you need to preach the cause in an antagonistic and instigative way. Please stop you are embarassing me and a slew of others I'm sure, in no point in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be concidered a rational thought, everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to you. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Seriously though you are making a big deal out of nothing, no one cares.
As a future DO, you should be ashamed on how you are attacking a fellow future DO for trying to teach others the differences.
 
Originally posted by idq1i
Go post this q in the osteo/allo/residency forums: Which residencies are better/stronger/more reputable/more competetive/more numerous. Come back when you get a response.
I don't care what other people's opinions are on this board about DOs specializing. I gave you 3 matchlists from DO schools showing how well they do when trying to specialize. I give you facts while you tell me to go ask people's opinions. 🙄
 
Originally posted by Insert
As a future DO, you should be ashamed on how you are attacking a fellow future DO for trying to teach others the differences.

defending your career path in a "my dad can beat up your dad" manner isn't teaching anyone anything.

👎
 
Originally posted by Insert
I don't care what other people's opinions are on this board about DOs specializing. I gave you 3 matchlists from DO schools showing how well they do when trying to specialize. I give you facts while you tell me to go ask people's opinions. 🙄

You don't have "facts," you have conjectures. You don't have a clue about GME. You are just an angry kid lashing out because your lack of knowledge has been exposed

http://www.scutwork.com/cgi-bin/links/page.cgi?g=Osteopathic/Residencies/index.html&d=1

Here are the osteo residencies. Go and compare those to allo. Enjoy
 
I have grown tired of this bickering and I will leave with this last post.

These are the reasons why DO is better than MD.

1. The holistic philosophy benefits the patient as it teaches not just prescribing medicine to heal everything, but helps the patient practice disease prevention. This whole approach only benefits the patient.

2. Osteopathic manipulation is an extra tool that can be used to help patients, and as an MD you do not learn this. Again, this helps the patient as you are more equiped to help them.

3. As a DO, you have the choice of doing a DO or MD residency while as an MD you cannot do DO residencies. The 3 match lists that I have posted clearly show DOs in all specialties including the most competitive ones. This debunks the theory that DOs have difficult times specializing.

4. DOs have an advantag in specialties such as ortho because of their added knowledge about the musculoskeletal system.

The following are reasons why any premed should seriously consider going the DO route as it has much to offer. This particularly goes for those who get rejected to MD year after year. After all, if they didn't want you, why not go the better route anyway. Be a DO.
 
Originally posted by Insert
I have grown tired of this bickering and I will leave with this last post.

These are the reasons why DO is better than MD.

1. The holistic philosophy benefits the patient as it teaches not just prescribing medicine to heal everything, but helps the patient practice disease prevention. This whole approach only benefits the patient.

2. Osteopathic manipulation is an extra tool that can be used to help patients, and as an MD you do not learn this. Again, this helps the patient as you are more equiped to help them.

3. As a DO, you have the choice of doing a DO or MD residency while as an MD you cannot do DO residencies. The 3 match lists that I have posted clearly show DOs in all specialties including the most competitive ones. This debunks the theory that DOs have difficult times specializing.

4. DOs have an advantag in specialties such as ortho because of their added knowledge about the musculoskeletal system.

The following are reasons why any premed should seriously consider going the DO route as it has much to offer. This particularly goes for those who get rejected to MD year after year. After all, if they didn't want you, why not go the better route anyway. Be a DO.

1. fine
2. fine
3. logical fallacy
4. fine

You can't debunk a question about difficulty by proving possibility.
Showing that plenty of English-speakers become fluent in Japanese as well as Spanish does not disprove the idea that Japanese is more difficult to learn than Spanish.
 
Originally posted by Rendar5
1. fine
2. fine
3. logical fallacy
4. fine

You can't debunk a question about difficulty by proving possibility.
Showing that plenty of English-speakers become fluent in Japanese as well as Spanish does not disprove the idea that Japanese is more difficult to learn than Spanish.

4 - may be so in theory, but not in practice. Look at orthopedic surgery stats for the # of DOs. Also, look up surveys of how many practicing DOs actually use OMT. The % will be <<10%

Fine, insert, I promise not to bombard you with the truth. You can return to believing whatever you want to believe. If you believe it hard enough, it may become real.

BTW, why don't you reveal your stats like you were asked? Embarassed?
 
Originally posted by idq1i

BTW, why don't you reveal your stats like you were asked? Embarassed?

u know it wont really matter cuz he will just post fake stats... the guy was just rejected too many times from an allopathic school so thats why he has disgust for it and all MDs
 
First of all this thread was not about D.O. vs. M.D. If you ask me, which no one did, I would say that "Insert" is suffering from so much inner turmoil after being rejected time after time by M.D. programs and being FORCED to enter a D.O. program that he decided he would come onto this thread and project his embarrassment and lack of self-worth onto JayMiranti, the originator of this thread. It is very sad indeed. You are like the bully at school who beats up on helpless kids because you lack self-esteem. JayMiranti started this post because he was apparently "worried". To come on and attack by making false assumptions (as I did when I said how many times you were rejected) just proves your nothing but a StudentDoctor.net jerk. Go start a thread entitled "Self-Righteous M.D. Rejects" and post there. Peace out ya Nitwit.
 
Originally posted by NotAMD
First of all this thread was not about D.O. vs. M.D. If you ask me, which no one did, I would say that "Insert" is suffering from so much inner turmoil after being rejected time after time by M.D. programs and being FORCED to enter a D.O. program that he decided he would come onto this thread and project his embarrassment and lack of self-worth onto JayMiranti, the originator of this thread. It is very sad indeed. You are like the bully at school who beats up on helpless kids because you lack self-esteem. JayMiranti started this post because he was apparently "worried". To come on and attack by making false assumptions (as I did when I said how many times you were rejected) just proves your nothing but a StudentDoctor.net jerk. Go start a thread entitled "Self-Righteous M.D. Rejects" and post there. Peace out ya Nitwit.

:clap:
 
This post is to defend myself. I had a 3.4 gpa and 34 MCAT, and I only applied to DO schools because I believe DO is better than MD. I was accepted the first time around. I have never applied to MD schools in my life.

Now I know what you all are thinking. Why didn't I apply MD? The reason is my heart lies in DO.
 
Originally posted by Insert
Now I know what you all are thinking. Why didn't I apply MD? The reason is my heart lies in DO.

real reason: allopathic schools dont like seeing 5C's on the transcript
 
Just want to try and bring this thread back to its original topic. Jaymiranti, best of luck with these interviews. Looking at your stats it looks like you have a fairly good chance of being accepted this time around. I only had 4 interviews myself, and was lucky enough to be accepted into 2 of them.

Like others have already suggested, give them any updates you can about what you have been doing with your time off. Don't hesitate to try and sell yourself. Be ready to give them any reason (if there is one) you did not perform as well as you wanted to, but do NOT blame others for your grades. Know your portfolio well - be prepared to talk about any activities/research you have done and sound enthusiastic. Be confident though you state you are worried.

Well these are advices I've received for residency interview... I think they apply pretty well for med school interviews too 🙂

Good luck and hope this helps.

P.S. Well my first day joining these forums and I'm amazed at the bickering going on in this post. More power to everyone whether they are in DO or MD school.
 
Here are some interesting posts from this Insert person who is making the DO profession look horrible. Look how he insults people constantly. Check it out before he edits the messages. Such rudeness talking down to nurses, MD's, etc. You will not make it ANYWHERE in this world with your attitue "internet tough guy". When we buy into his stuff, he reaches his goal. This will clearly prove that all these posts were due to an insecurity in getting into DO. I mean, who puts down people like that? Hey Insert, Stop trying to justify your place in life. Let's just kill this thread.

Look at second post by Insert:


How about this one by him?

Here he is contradicting what he's said on this thread:

Look at these remarks he made:

Here is another very shallow remark:

Wow, look at this one

And a link to "worried"
 
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