WOrried

[idq1i]

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So.... maybe insert is really short for "insert foot in mouth?" Oh yeah, I call BS on the 34

 

[4 Ever]

Originally posted by kyra201

P.S. Well my first day joining these forums and I'm amazed at the bickering going on in this post. More power to everyone whether they are in DO or MD school.

well the bickering is only because of one Insert. As it is mentioned in the posts above, he has been going around putting down all other professions within medicine and claiming DO's to be above them all. I think all people in the profession do their job and they are important to the system - and i dont believe MD's to be better than DO's or vice versa. However, whenever there is a DO discussion, insert jumps in and claims to be better than everyone. I'm glad there is no MD student running around acting as he is

 

[Insert]

I enjoy to see how the thread diverged into attacking me. Since you can't refute the facts of DOs you resort to insults at me.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

Originally posted by 4 Ever
well the bickering is only because of one Insert. As it is mentioned in the posts above, he has been going around putting down all other professions within medicine and claiming DO's to be above them all. I think all people in the profession do their job and they are important to the system - and i dont believe MD's to be better than DO's or vice versa. However, whenever there is a DO discussion, insert jumps in and claims to be better than everyone. I'm glad there is no MD student running around acting as he is

I agree. Hands down to all of the MD students. We appreciate your maturity and helpfulness on SDN. Like I said in my earlier post, people are people and they live for something. Whether that is Nursing, selling shoes, becoming an MD, taking over a family business, that's all cool. Nothing is better as certain things make certain people happier and those are the best things for that particular person. DO might be better for you, cool. It IS NOT better for everybody.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

Originally posted by Insert
I enjoy to see how the thread diverged into attacking me. Since you can't refute the facts of DOs you resort to insults at me.

I think if you stop attacking other people's decisions, it will result in nobody attacking you. Try it.

 

[kyra201]

Well, not saying people on all the posts bickers. I was just amused and needed to comment on it. And was trying to move the thread back to its original purpose =)

BTW, anyone like me who was lucky enough to get accepted despite a small number of interviews?

 

[JayMiranti]

I just feel that those schools are so standard to have interviews at.

I always feel good about my interviews, but does it really even matter? I mean I feel like even if you have a GREAT interview, it still all comes down to your #'s. Sure a phenomenal interview will get you accepted, and a terrible one will get you rejected, but inbetween these extremes i feel its all #'s that determine getting in.

How many interviews should it take to get one acceptance, anyone have any ideas?

 

[skypilot]

If you get 5 or 6 interviews your chances of getting at least one admission are great. I think that would indicate that you applied to schools in your range and that they are interested in you.

 

[Amy B]

Originally posted by skypilot
To emphasize that it is not a separate profession here is the Radiology residency program at University of Pittsburgh one of the highest ranked allopathic med schools in the country. Who is the director of the program? Philip D. Orons D.O.!

http://www.radiology.upmc.edu/residency/

After the debate about DO verses MD and whether or not we would be looked upon as less of a doctor, and a previous poster's talk about the DOs they work with telling them not to apply DO, I felt compeled to email the DO at the site listed by skypilot.

Here is my email and his response.

"""Greetings Dr. Orons,
I am a member of SDN, a student doctor forum on the Internet. I have been accepted to Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine and will start there this fall. We are all having a debate about whether or not DOs are thought to be inferior to MDs out in the working world of health care. A poster stumbled onto the UPMC web site and saw that you are the director of the Radiology Residency program at a MD medical school location. This is an ongoing debate at SDN and was wondering if you would be willing to give us some imput about how you feel?


My questions to you if you wouldn't mind answering is do you feel you have a stigma attached to yourself for being an DO verses an MD? And if you had it to do over, would you still have chosen to become a DO?Thank you for your help,


From: "Orons, Phillip" <[email protected]> To: "'[email protected]
Subject: RE: A question from a student
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:13:08 -0500
Dear Amy,

This is an interesting debate, and one which has been ongoing since A.T. Still was making his rounds in Missouri in the late 1800s. I graduated from PCOM in 1986 and remember hearing something during my first year about a supposed study that was performed by the ACGME or some other allopathic body looking at the average credentials of osteopathic first year medical students vs. those of first year allopathic students. Apparently, the purpose of the study was to determine if there was a difference between M.D. and D.O. students academically.

Supposedly, the study found that there was no statistically significant difference between the two groups with respect to MCAT scores, grades, etc, but to my knowledge, the study was never published. My father is a D.O. and I became an osteopathic physician because I admired the way my father practiced medicine. I was really not aware of the differences between the way M.D.s and D.O.s were regarded, or the issues D.O.s faced once they reached the level of postgraduate training and clinical practice.

I didn't apply to any allopathic schools. I believed then, and I believe now, there is no meaningful difference between the quality of education received by D.O.s and M.D.s at the medical school level. The curricula, resources, and faculty are very similar - sometimes even identical and shared between schools. However, I believe that in postgraduate training, and especially when it comes to subspecialty fields, there may be enormous differences in the opportunities available to D.O.s.

To say that D.O.s are believed inferior to M.D.s in the working world of health care is to paint with a very broad brush to say the least. However, when individuals are being considered for competitive postgraduate training opportunities at academic allopathic institutions, D.O.s are definitely at a disadvantage. There are some individuals in the academic allopathic world (and probably more than a few in osteopathic medicine as well) who believe that many (even most?) individuals who end up in an osteopathic medical school do so for the same reason some people end up attending medical school in the Caribbean - because they were rejected from M.D. schools. And let's face it - for some individuals this is indeed the case.

Hopefully, most people who pursue an osteopathic education do so because they find the osteopathic philosophy appealing. Because some people (even in my own institution) do feel this way, I believe osteopathic students and residents have to work that much harder to put their best efforts forward at all times. When we have the occasional resident who comes through our department who is not where he or she should be in terms of knowledge base, or worse, in terms of effort put forth, they may be looked at differently by some depending on the initials after their name. If their degree is M.D., a comment might be "dumb", or "geeze, he's lazy!". If the person is a D.O., the comment might be "Oh, he's a D.O." as if such behavior or performance is less surprising because less is expected of that person.

The most important thing for any D.O. (let's face it - for any physician) to do is to always put their full effort into their work. There is no substitute for work ethic and dedication. Would I do it again? I would. I have had some measure of success in the allopathic world and I am proud of my training and background. Maybe some of my success was just being in the right place at the right time, but I hope it was because when I was given the chance to compete with M.D.s on their turf, I gave enough effort to be seen not as a D.O. trying to compete in an M.D.'s world, but just as another physician in training, and then as faculty, who was doing a good job.

Some others, however, may have difficulty getting the chance to show what they're made of; some subspecialty fields are so competitive, D.O.s may find it harder to get the opportunity to train in them at large academic institutions. Unfortunately, there are very few large academic osteopathic institutions, and I believe that these types of institutions, in general, are at an advantage in terms of the ability to provide the best subspecialty education and training in some fields.

However, most physicians end up in private practice or on staff at smaller institutions with completely mixed staffs and whether one is an M.D. or a D.O. is completely irrelevant. Also, there is little difference in training between allopathic and osteopathic institutions in primary care and general medical fields. There are other issues as well with regard to primary care vs. specialty fields, and the choices of M.D.s vs. D.O.s, but this is a separate discussion. I would be happy to discuss these things with you in more detail if you would like.

Best of luck in your future training. If the right effort is put into your career, you can achieve any goals you set for yourself. I am proud of my osteopathic background and I know that D.O.s are equal to M.D.s in every way. Don't ever be ashamed or embarrassed by your choices.

Sincerely,
Philip D. Orons, D.O.
Associate Professor of Radiology
Director, Radiology Residency Program
UPMC Health System

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by Amy B
when individuals are being considered for competitive postgraduate training opportunities at academic allopathic institutions, D.O.s are definitely at a disadvantage.

when I was given the chance to compete with M.D.s on their turf, I gave enough effort to be seen not as a D.O. trying to compete in an M.D.'s world, but just as another physician in training, and then as faculty, who was doing a good job.

However, most physicians end up in private practice or on staff at smaller institutions with completely mixed staffs and whether one is an M.D. or a D.O. is completely irrelevant.

Sincerely,
Philip D. Orons, D.O.
Associate Professor of Radiology
Director, Radiology Residency Program
UPMC Health System

Awesome letter. No one ever said it would be easy but with determination any obstacle can be overcome.

 

[NDESTRUKT]

Insert is a real money saving genius. He's trying to save the OP a lot of money because according to him - he might be wasting money applying to MD schools again and being rejected. Let's take a look at Insert. Insert got such high MCAT scores and a decent GPA, he decided instead of going to his state school where he'd pay a very small amount of tuition...to go to a DO private school where he'd have to pay over 30K a year. makes hell of a lot of sense to me.

i know some people that could have gone MD but went DO...but VERY FEW. Most of the ones I know couldn't do MD. Obviously some people don't want to be DO's cuz they don't click with the philosophy. Haven't you ever heard of the advice - if you don't wanna be DO, don't go because you'll regret it? If someone doesn't wanna be a DO and really wants to be an MD they should NOT go DO...

I wanted to be a physician - I applied to both MD and DO schools. I chose an MD school because of it's value - I pay almost nothing compared to the DO school I would have gone to. But not everyone is like that. I see them as the same - and I respect both the same amount. Read AmyB's post in the pre-DO forum concerning a letter she got from a DO...it's something you - Insert - should read.

Quit making judgements on people. It's not the fact you wanna be a DO or MD that makes you look like a *****, it's how adamant you are on pushing your feelings onto someone else. The true DO philosophy doesn't advocate putting people down. I have a hard time believing you could have gotten into an MD school anyway. Most people that choose DO over MD are good natured people that have reasons to go to DO and don't have some stuck up attitude toward people that are different. If you embrace the DO philosophy so much, why don't you review it again and quit dissing. You don't need to give the OP anymore advice than you have - ur not his dad...fool.

 

[Insert]

Originally posted by NDESTRUKT
Insert got such high MCAT scores and a decent GPA, he decided instead of going to his state school where he'd pay a very small amount of tuition...to go to a DO private school where he'd have to pay over 30K a year. makes hell of a lot of sense to me.

i know some people that could have gone MD but went DO...but VERY FEW.

I believe it is a shame you are insulting those who choose to go the DO route over the MD route. Yes perhaps I could have been accepted to my MD state school with my 34 MCAT but I chose not to apply. Perhaps it is *****ic to believe so much in the DO philosophy that I would rather pay 30K a year than attend an MD school at half the tuition.

But you know, I have so much love for the osteopathic philosophy that I believe it is my calling to be an osteopathic doctor. You and others may bash me all you want but I will not give up my dream just because others think it's dumb.

Yes there are VERY FEW of us out there that are choosing DO over MD and let me be the first to say that I couldn't be more proud to do so. If you sir, wish to mock my stance, then let it be. Just because you chose your school based on tuition does not mean it is the right thing to do.

 

[NDESTRUKT]

Leave it to a pawn like you to take things out of context. What I said was: "Insert is a real money saving genius. He's trying to save the OP a lot of money because according to him - he might be wasting money applying to MD schools again and being rejected. Let's take a look at Insert. Insert got such high MCAT scores and a decent GPA, he decided instead of going to his state school where he'd pay a very small amount of tuition...to go to a DO private school where he'd have to pay over 30K a year. makes hell of a lot of sense to me." Read the whole paragraph and find what point I was trying to make. I did NOT say it's wrong to choose DO over MD. Never would I say that. Slickness might do it, and AmyB might too. I also have 2 other friends I know personally that did it. Big deal - I know their true desires to be a physician and they have the compassion to accept all people - no matter their race, social background, OR choice to be an MD or DO.

What I do have a problem with is the fact that you keep trying to push your feelings onto other people and if other people don't agree with you you say they're wrong. I never said you were WRONG to choose DO over MD.

If other people don't have as much a deep rootedness in the DO philosophy do you think it'd be wise for them to go the DO route? You're just encouraging more people to go DO when they won't be happy there.

And let me just say this - one day when you're a doctor and I'm a doctor, if we're the same specialty we'll be doing the same darn thing...whether or not I went DO or not. Get out of your little egotistical and warped disillusionment.

I was looking at going to a DO school actually - I found that school an excellent one with very awesome people...I have my own reasons for not going that route as do everyone else so why don't YOU quit insulting those who choose their own route. Now...go play or something - you're the type that gives DO's a bad stereotype they definitly don't deserve.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

Dude NDESTUKT,

Don't try it with Insert. We all saw what he has said about other professions and stuff. This thread was nice and dead until somebody went and dug it up and brought it back to life

Die thread die....

 

[Insert]

Originally posted by NDESTRUKT
Leave it to a pawn like you to take things out of context. What I said was: "Insert is a real money saving genius. He's trying to save the OP a lot of money because according to him - he might be wasting money applying to MD schools again and being rejected. Let's take a look at Insert. Insert got such high MCAT scores and a decent GPA, he decided instead of going to his state school where he'd pay a very small amount of tuition...to go to a DO private school where he'd have to pay over 30K a year. makes hell of a lot of sense to me." Read the whole paragraph and find what point I was trying to make. I did NOT say it's wrong to choose DO over MD. Never would I say that. Slickness might do it, and AmyB might too. I also have 2 other friends I know personally that did it. Big deal - I know their true desires to be a physician and they have the compassion to accept all people - no matter their race, social background, OR choice to be an MD or DO.

What I do have a problem with is the fact that you keep trying to push your feelings onto other people and if other people don't agree with you you say they're wrong. I never said you were WRONG to choose DO over MD.

If other people don't have as much a deep rootedness in the DO philosophy do you think it'd be wise for them to go the DO route? You're just encouraging more people to go DO when they won't be happy there.

And let me just say this - one day when you're a doctor and I'm a doctor, if we're the same specialty we'll be doing the same darn thing...whether or not I went DO or not. Get out of your little egotistical and warped disillusionment.

I was looking at going to a DO school actually - I found that school an excellent one with very awesome people...I have my own reasons for not going that route as do everyone else so why don't YOU quit insulting those who choose their own route. Now...go play or something - you're the type that gives DO's a bad stereotype they definitly don't deserve.

I agree with onmyway there. This thread had died a long time ago until NDESTRUKT decided to bring it back up. Looks like you're just out to put me down for wanting to follow my dream. I'm just trying to help out those that may want to still be doctors and can't make MD.

 

[PACtoDOC]

When most of you get a little further in your medical education you will see that there are great physicians, sucky physicians, and dangerous physicians. It can occur with either of these initials after their name as well. I chose DO because it just happened to be right for me, and I declined my MD acceptance because it was right for me. I have excellent stats to back up my decision. But I certainly don't begrudge anyone who has taken the road more travelled (MD) because it is the common and more understood path. INSERT, you seem to think there is a difference in philosophy because you feel MD's are less caring and less compassionate. That is a myth, or at least has been since MD's too became preventive in nature and about the "whole person". INSERT is living in some fantasy pre-DO world where patients get to see their DO for a solid hour each visit, are fully compliant, and are all tree hugging hippies!! Except for manip, which I do really like, there aint a damn thing different between me and my MD student colleagues. Grow up INSERT and let people do whatever they want. It is radicals like you in DO land that make us all look like chiroquacks!!!

 

[OnMyWayThere]

Insert and others got the point. Insert stopped posting on SDN for a month now. Please do us all a favor and don't dig up dead threads that annoy people and bring them back. We all make an effort to let this go away... thanks!

 

[PACtoDOC]

OnMyWayThere,

You can shove an AT Still walking stick where the sun doesn't shine. I'll post whenever and whereever I f-in feel like it. How's that for tact?

 

[swagner]

You guys are awesome...and bored. Don't you have anything better to do than sit here are argure the same pointless $#!+? A physician is a physician. If you are going to sit here and argue what letters look better after your name, you are in the wrong profession for the wrong reason. No matter what letters follow your name, your purpose is the same. Get over it...so many get caught up in b.s details. Move on and strive to practice good medicine. That is all that matters in the end.

 

[MADSTAB]

Hey everyone,

I am really becoming concerned about my situation, and could use some feedback.

I applied last year with a 3.5cum/3.3sci/26Q(10v,7p,9b) math major from U. roch. Im a CT resident, interviewed at uconn, waitlist, no luck.

This year im applying again with a
3.6cum/3.4 sci/28M(10v,9p,9b) after retaking the mcat, and getting straight A's senior year.

I have good ECs including emt and teaching experience.

So last year I only got one invite, this year I have 5, but i wonder what my chances are?

Drexel, Einstein, NYMC, Georgetown, and Uconn are the 5.

Part of me feels like these are the kind of schools that are quick to interview, yet not so easy to get into.

i feel like im in a tough spot. My only in state schools are yale and Uconn, which are both super competitive, and my mcat i think will hold me back.

I am dreading the thought of reapplying again, but considering applying as a resident of a different state to increase my chances.
I would just hate to do it all again when i am so close.

What do you all think? How would you feel to be in my shoes?

Dont worry about your MAT score too much average getting into medschool is 29 so chill. they will also see that u improved on your MCAT so thats a plus.. I have hope for u

 

[shock827]

Dont worry about your MAT score too much average getting into medschool is 29 so chill. they will also see that u improved on your MCAT so thats a plus.. I have hope for u

do you realize this is a 10 month old thread?

 

[DrThom]

do you realize this is a 10 month old thread?

I almost posted on this thread....and then I took a look at the date and decided that these people probably aren't even around all the often anymore.