Would a scribe still need clinical volunteering?

[ZPakEffect]

I work as an ED scribe and I feel that I get more than enough clinical exposure. However, I have read that clinical volunteering is a necessity. I would much rather volunteer outside of healthcare facilities as I already get enough exposure at my job. So would it be sufficient to have only non-clinical volunteering plus scribing experience?

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[Catalystik]

I work as an ED scribe and I feel that I get more than enough clinical exposure. However, I have read that clinical volunteering is a necessity. I would much rather volunteer outside of healthcare facilities as I already get enough exposure at my job. So would it be sufficient to have only non-clinical volunteering plus scribing experience?

IMO, you have the expectations for active clinical experience covered through your employment, so long as you are interacting with the patients to some extent (not just a bump on the wall taking notes) and sufficient duration of the experience. In such a situation, clinical volunteering isn't needed. But providing nonmedical community service in some way is well advised.

 

[ZPakEffect]

Thank you for the reply.

 

[keels99]

All my volunteering was outside medicine and I am an ER scribe. I don't think interacting with a patient is necessary because all of our hospital volunteers do silly stuff like fetch wheel chairs or clean things.

 

[Catalystik]

All my volunteering was outside medicine and I am an ER scribe. I don't think interacting with a patient is necessary because all of our hospital volunteers do silly stuff like fetch wheel chairs or clean things.

You never spoke to the patients? I've heard that, of late, some trained scribes are instructed not to do so.

 

[keels99]

You never spoke to the patients? I've heard that, of late, some trained scribes are instructed not to do so.

Only sometimes, like if a doc forgets to ask one of the questions I need or I didn't hear them. We're not supposed to actually speak to patients as far as taking history goes. Sometimes they will ask what I do and I'll explain to them. But other than that, a scribe job is strictly charting and does not involve direct patient care. We are by allowed to touch the patients at all. However, I can tell you we learn a lot more with our job than any phlebotomist or tech.

 

[ridethecliche]

However, I can tell you we learn a lot more with our job than any phlebotomist or tech.

Easy there tiger, getting ahead of yourself a bit there. Techs and phlebotomist are privy to quite a lot from when I've seen in the hospital.

Some of them actually interact with patients too. 😉

 

[keels99]

Easy there tiger, getting ahead of yourself a bit there. Techs and phlebotomist are privy to quite a lot from when I've seen in the hospital.

Some of them actually interact with patients too. 😉

They may "touch" patients but they don't get to interact with physicians the entire shift while observing the medical decision making process. I've heard from those who were once techs and now scribes that you actually learn quite a bit more in the scribe position. I think by charting I've learned more than I would have from cleaning bed pans 😛

 

[ridethecliche]

Some of us do all of that and phlebotomy while doing research.

The experiences you're describing are institution specific at times. Not saying that you're not getting a great experience, just saying that these things are variable!

 

[usmd01]

Volunteering demonstrates commitment to your community without compensation, which speaks higher to my school than employment, unless necessary to support yourself. Volunteering in a clinical environment gets your both volunteer and clinical experience.

For you, you don't need more clinical. Go in your community and volunteer with underserved people (poor at food bank/homeless at shelter/uninsured at free clinics or health drives).

 

[mehc012]

Only sometimes, like if a doc forgets to ask one of the questions I need or I didn't hear them. We're not supposed to actually speak to patients as far as taking history goes. Sometimes they will ask what I do and I'll explain to them. But other than that, a scribe job is strictly charting and does not involve direct patient care. We are by allowed to touch the patients at all. However, I can tell you we learn a lot more with our job than any phlebotomist or tech.

That's going to be very site-specific, though. My own experience was wholly different. I spoke to patients constantly throughout my shifts. I translated, reassured, joked with them to relax them, got them blankets/pillows, even had a patient cut the doctor off and ask what I would do in their situation once (that one was tough because I would have chosen the opposite of what the doctor wanted to do). I'd ask questions the doc forgot to ask, explain when the doc had to run out without apparent reason (usually for a consult we'd been waiting on forever), go and ask what they needed for discharge (work note, US report printout, referral, etc.) I couldn't directly assist in procedures, per se, but I could hold the patient's hand or distract them or talk to the family. I couldn't touch the patient, but I could get the supplies ready - track them down, prep the fiberglass for splints, hand the doc the next supply, run the US machine while they were sterile for central lines, push the button on the defibrillator, etc. Yes, I did the charting, but I also had a lot of direct patient interaction.

 

[keels99]

That's going to be very site-specific, though. My own experience was wholly different. I spoke to patients constantly throughout my shifts. I translated, reassured, joked with them to relax them, got them blankets/pillows, even had a patient cut the doctor off and ask what I would do in their situation once (that one was tough because I would have chosen the opposite of what the doctor wanted to do). I'd ask questions the doc forgot to ask, explain when the doc had to run out without apparent reason (usually for a consult we'd been waiting on forever), go and ask what they needed for discharge (work note, US report printout, referral, etc.) I couldn't directly assist in procedures, per se, but I could hold the patient's hand or distract them or talk to the family. I couldn't touch the patient, but I could get the supplies ready - track them down, prep the fiberglass for splints, hand the doc the next supply, run the US machine while they were sterile for central lines, push the button on the defibrillator, etc. Yes, I did the charting, but I also had a lot of direct patient interaction.

I guess I should add that yes, I have prepared suture kits, grabbed random items, and talked to the patients in general when the physician isn't interviewing them, but most of the time I don't talk to the patient because we aren't aupposed to take their history (it's some dumb company rule) despite the fact I could easily ask them a q the doc forgot (like when the pain started or which part of their head hurts.)

 

[mehc012]

I guess I should add that yes, I have prepared suture kits, grabbed random items, and talked to the patients in general when the physician isn't interviewing them, but most of the time I don't talk to the patient because we aren't aupposed to take their history (it's some dumb company rule) despite the fact I could easily ask them a q the doc forgot (like when the pain started or which part of their head hurts.)

I just do it while the doc is still there so it's still a part of the doc's patient interview
You can do so much more talking to the patient than take their history, though. Talk about sports, books, music, laugh a little. They look a bit off cuz they ran into the ER at 3am in their fuzzy footie pajamas? Compliment it, laugh about it, tell them about the time your roommate fell asleep before the pizza came so you had to answer the door in a similar outfit. They're freaking out over their sick grandma, you just give the family some water and reassure them that the doctor is really good and will come in and discuss things when the results are back. Update them - hey, I know you haven't spoken to the doc in a while, he is waiting for a phone call from your primary physician so that everyone has as much information as possible when deciding her course of treatment. Make sure they know that no one is judging them for xyz; we see it all the time and it's just human.
A patient is sick, yes, and there are certain conversations that clinicians (and only clinicians) need to have with them. But patients are also human, and when appropriate, benefit from normal, human interactions. THOSE a scribe can provide. Just because the patient is currently in the hospital doesn't mean that they can or should have only clinical interactions until they leave.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

The company I work for strictly prohibits all scribes from engaging in direct patient contact, whether that be talking to the patient or holding their hand or comforting them. The role of the scribe is strictly charting and helping manage ED workflow by alerting the doctor about abnormal lab results, imaging results, etc. Breaking this contractual agreement can bring you severe consequences, including and up to termination.

Depending on your company's policies and contract (which you should ALWAYS follow without question), you may need to get direct patient contact experience elsewhere. For me, I volunteered in a hospital one summer (talked with patients) and currently visit terminally ill patients as a hospice care volunteer (provide emotional support and companionship). I probably would not have gotten accepted if I had only been a scribe and not done anything with direct patient contact.

 

[medic86]

They may "touch" patients but they don't get to interact with physicians the entire shift while observing the medical decision making process. I've heard from those who were once techs and now scribes that you actually learn quite a bit more in the scribe position. I think by charting I've learned more than I would have from cleaning bed pans 😛

I think you're underestimating how important patient contact is.

I was a medic in the Army working in an ED: on top of performing direct patient care (drawing labs, suturing minor lacs), I worked very closely with the ED physicians, and helped manage the workflow in the ED (ie. keeping track of what labs still need to come back, etc.). Don't downplay what the techs do - everyone plays an important role in the healthcare system. 😛

 

[Doctor Dream]

The company I work for strictly prohibits all scribes from engaging in direct patient contact, whether that be talking to the patient or holding their hand or comforting them. The role of the scribe is strictly charting and helping manage ED workflow by alerting the doctor about abnormal lab results, imaging results, etc. Breaking this contractual agreement can bring you severe consequences, including and up to termination.

Depending on your company's policies and contract (which you should ALWAYS follow without question), you may need to get direct patient contact experience elsewhere. For me, I volunteered in a hospital one summer (talked with patients) and currently visit terminally ill patients as a hospice care volunteer (provide emotional support and companionship). I probably would not have gotten accepted if I had only been a scribe and not done anything with direct patient contact.

Yo Ace Khalifa, congrats on the acceptance man!! 👍 👍 I knew you'd get one sooner or later.

 

[Tappinfool66]

Just to reiterate what others have said, I don't think you'll need clinical volunteering on top of the clinical experience you have from scribing. I applied after a year of scribing and no clinical volunteering (though I did have other volunteering) and have a few acceptances so far. So if I were you, I wouldn't worry about trying to get more clinical experience via volunteering (unless you want to, that is). Volunteering should be something you enjoy, not something you do just to add to your resume, so focus on having meaningful volunteering experiences, clinical or not, that you can talk about passionately on your applications and in your interviews.

 

[GameTheory29]

I volunteered in an ER prior to working as an ER scribe. Once I started as a scribe, I started volunteer activities that I was more passionate about (mentor and Meals on Wheels).

Honestly, I would just find service where you're passionate (clinical or otherwise) and be able to talk about clinical experiences when prompted during an interview. Just soak it all in when scribing because even though I haven't done many other clinical experiences, I definitely found it helpful and the most defining experience for me the last couple years.

 

[takeurmeds02]

As I understand it, ADCOM wants to see if you have exposed yourself to the good and bad of medicine. As an ER scribe, I could opine on all aspects of the job from dealing strickly with patients, to dealing with other docs and nurses, and all of the administrative work in between. A lot of people on this site would have you discredit the scribing experience but if you work in a capacity to experience death on a regular basis and learn to value life, that's the whole point. If you can show ADCOM that you have actually LEARNED from scribing and it was not just a job then I think you would be okay. Obviously, I'm biased being that I'm a fellow scribe though.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

As I understand it, ADCOM wants to see if you have exposed yourself to the good and bad of medicine. As an ER scribe, I could opine on all aspects of the job from dealing strickly with patients, to dealing with other docs and nurses, and all of the administrative work in between. A lot of people on this site would have you discredit the scribing experience but if you work in a capacity to experience death on a regular basis and learn to value life, that's the whole point. If you can show ADCOM that you have actually LEARNED from scribing and it was not just a job then I think you would be okay. Obviously, I'm biased being that I'm a fellow scribe though.

^this. For every activity you put on your AMCAS, you should have learned from it and it should have helped you grow.