Would badly messing up a suture or another procedure during a rotation automatically lead to a 3/5 eval?

[voxveritatisetlucis]

A few days ago, I scrubbed in with the senior resident who will be judging me for part of the surgery rotation and she asked me to do a simple running suture and I messed it up badly, like really badly. My technique was all off from holding the needle driver incorrectly to not aligning the bites. If you were a surgery resident, would this automatically be grounds for no higher than a 3/5 even if I’ve been putting in the effort, doing good presentations/notes etc. in other words, how much if your surgery grade is based on technical skills

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[GritsNGuts]

I hope you understand that no matter what anybody says, nobody except that very resident knows how it will impact their evaluation. Any back-and-forth will be ultimately useless, and there's nothing you can do about it now. Just work on your suturing at home and then show them in the future that you've improved. You're far from the only med student who messed up their first suture. It'll be okay.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I hope you understand that no matter what anybody says, nobody except that very resident knows how it will impact their evaluation. Any back-and-forth will be ultimately useless, and there's nothing you can do about it now. Just work on your suturing at home and then show them in the future that you've improved. You're far from the only med student who messed up their first suture. It'll be okay.

Ya before that happened she was much friendlier. And willing to show me things but then yesterday she told me not to scrub into the last case of the day. The thing is, I practiced a lot but was just extremely nervous since I was in front of my evaluator and it was the first time suturing on human skin. I guess the only thing that matters though is results

 

[operaman]

If the resident is good and experienced it shouldn’t matter at all. Unless she had already taken time to teach you the right way and you clearly didn’t learn or practice it at all. But sounds like this was your first time so not that.

every student sucks at doing stuff at first. Everyone. Experienced folks know that and we don’t hold it against anyone. Frankly id rather a nervous careful student over a cavalier one any day. Just keep practicing and get better. One of the hard parts of being a student is that you spend long periods doing very little and then randomly get thrown tasks without much chance to prepare. And of course it’s usually the closure when everyone wants to be done and now it’s going to take a lot longer because a noob is sewing. But we were all that noob at one point. It’s not any easy moment to have confidence and do your best work.

Don’t let it shake your confidence for the rotation though, keep showing up and trying hard and have a good attitude.

 

[GritsNGuts]

Ya before that happened she was much friendlier. And willing to show me things but then yesterday she told me not to scrub into the last case of the day. The thing is, I practiced a lot but was just extremely nervous since I was in front of my evaluator and it was the first time suturing on human skin. I guess the only thing that matters though is results

I was so nervous my first time that I was literally shaking. I did horrendously. The resident had to take over. This actually happened a couple of times lmfao. They should understand that you won't somehow be amazing at suturing human skin when you're doing it for your very first time, but some people are unreasonable.

Having said that, just wanna repeat that you can't change the past. If I could give you just one piece of advice, go slowly when you suture. You may think you've been going slowly. Go slower. During my rotation, I realized that the reason I was doing so poorly is because I was rushing in my mind. Once I slowed down, I stopped shaking and I starting suturing quite well. The same resident who was horrified by my first suture was in awe at how good I was just a couple of weeks later. You will get more chances. When you have those chances, slow down.

 

[LucidSplash]

You really can not keep perseverating on your grades like this for every small thing that occurs in M3. It is not healthy.

I mean this in the kindest possible way. Based on post history, I really do think that you should see someone to help with this level of anxiety. I think this would be very helpful to you going forward in your career.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

You need to get off the internet and chill man

 

[Med Ed]

You really can not keep perseverating on your grades like this for every small thing that occurs in M3. It is not healthy.

I mean this in the kindest possible way. Based on post history, I really do think that you should see someone to help with this level of anxiety. I think this would be very helpful to you going forward in your career.

Morning of 8/2/24: "Got an H on OB/GYN clerkship!"
Afternoon of 8/2/24: "General surgery is getting more competitive. I ran a bad stitch. Is my career dead?"

 

[mrbreakfast]

I bet this resident literally doesn't even remember this. Senior residents and attendings are typically going to evaluate you on your overall vibe and anything that stood out (good or bad) that should move the needle away from whatever they consider the "average" grade to be.

Again, like many other posters are telling you in this (and many other) threads - the biggest threat to your long-term career isn't your grades/performance, your age, technology/the world we live in, etc, but is your outlook on life.

Please, consider talking to someone who isn't on SDN and is actually a professional at helping with these things. I have no idea what you're like in person but based on your posts just in the past few months, I'm worried about how you'll interview. Think of working on yourself as part of your residency application.

 

[Med Ed]

If you were a surgery resident, would this automatically be grounds for no higher than a 3/5 even if I’ve been putting in the effort, doing good presentations/notes etc. in other words, how much if your surgery grade is based on technical skills

Agree with others. You would serve yourself well to detach from SDN and get some real life assistance.

 

[wysdoc]

Ya before that happened she was much friendlier. And willing to show me things but then yesterday she told me not to scrub into the last case of the day. The thing is, I practiced a lot but was just extremely nervous since I was in front of my evaluator and it was the first time suturing on human skin. I guess the only thing that matters though is results

I was never allowed/offered to do suturing or close skin when I was a medical student, not until an intern.
I don’t think this will make or break anything.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Agree with others. You would serve yourself well to detach from SDN and get some real life assistance.

I probably should talk to somebody but where is the time. My hours for the next 8 weeks are pretty much 4:00am-6pm including every week day and Saturdays. Most psychologists/psychiatrists don’t work Sunday

 

[DarkBluMage]

A few days ago, I scrubbed in with the senior resident who will be judging me for part of the surgery rotation and she asked me to do a simple running suture and I messed it up badly, like really badly. My technique was all off from holding the needle driver incorrectly to not aligning the bites. If you were a surgery resident, would this automatically be grounds for no higher than a 3/5 even if I’ve been putting in the effort, doing good presentations/notes etc. in other words, how much if your surgery grade is based on technical skills

Just relax. I got a small/snappy remark from one of my residents about not staying in my own field while helping with closing sutures. I worked on my technique and showed improvement the next time. My evals were great. Don’t take everything to heart. You’re there to learn, everyone knows that. Just focus on improving and showing you’re capable of taking feedback and growing.

 

[DarkBluMage]

I probably should talk to somebody but where is the time. My hours for the next 8 weeks are pretty much 4:00am-6pm including every week day and Saturdays. Most psychologists/psychiatrists don’t work Sunday

I usually scheduled my therapy appointments for 7/7:30pm when I was inpatient during clinicals. Take a look at your options to see what’s available before thinking no one will accommodate your schedule.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Also if you have days blocked off for lecture days you can always schedule it during those days once lectures are done.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

I probably should talk to somebody but where is the time. My hours for the next 8 weeks are pretty much 4:00am-6pm including every week day and Saturdays. Most psychologists/psychiatrists don’t work Sunday

I'm really glad you're honestly considering it. Your life will improve a lot once you're able to get started. Most therapists and psychiatrists have a bit of lead time to intake anyway, get on the wait list now.

 

[Med Ed]

I probably should talk to somebody but where is the time. My hours for the next 8 weeks are pretty much 4:00am-6pm including every week day and Saturdays. Most psychologists/psychiatrists don’t work Sunday

Generally speaking, if there is no acute crisis then there is no need for acute intervention. Look into getting started when things are less hectic.

Being a good doctor means being a good decision maker in the face of constant stress, uncertainty, and failure. Starting to work on this stuff now will only make you better in the long run.

 

[mrbreakfast]

I probably should talk to somebody but where is the time. My hours for the next 8 weeks are pretty much 4:00am-6pm including every week day and Saturdays. Most psychologists/psychiatrists don’t work Sunday

Being a med student is stressful and your school certainly has resources for med students; they probably talked about this during orientation. But I agree with the other posters that it doesn't have to be now. Stress in medicine is part of the job; residency will be stressful, and attendinghood is stressful too. Almost all of us have built support networks or coping mechanisms or mindsets to help with that. Stress is an accumulation of small things, and a successful doctor works to keep that pile small, kind of like mental housekeeping, in one way or another.

Recognizing the pile, and recognizing that it's getting bigger, is the first step. You've acknowledged that you're adding to your pile; just as it's hard to clean your entire place in one day, that pile will take time to shrink. For now, surviving surgery clerkship, and formulating a plan to attack that stress pile later, is the best approach.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Being a med student is stressful and your school certainly has resources for med students; they probably talked about this during orientation. But I agree with the other posters that it doesn't have to be now. Stress in medicine is part of the job; residency will be stressful, and attendinghood is stressful too. Almost all of us have built support networks or coping mechanisms or mindsets to help with that. Stress is an accumulation of small things, and a successful doctor works to keep that pile small, kind of like mental housekeeping, in one way or another.

Recognizing the pile, and recognizing that it's getting bigger, is the first step. You've acknowledged that you're adding to your pile; just as it's hard to clean your entire place in one day, that pile will take time to shrink. For now, surviving surgery clerkship, and formulating a plan to attack that stress pile later, is the best approach.

I wouldn’t advise delaying attacking the stress pile. Don’t wait until you start having mental breakdowns to get help is my advise. Life is gona life, you can’t keep putting your mental health on the back burner. Too many med students and residents are committing suicide. Get ahead of the problem if you’re able. There are a lot of therapists that can work with your schedule, not everybody pulls a 9-5.

 

[LucidSplash]

I wouldn’t advise delaying attacking the stress pile. Don’t wait until you start having mental breakdowns to get help is my advise. Life is gona life, you can’t keep putting your mental health on the back burner. Too many med students and residents are committing suicide. Get ahead of the problem if you’re able. There are a lot of therapists that can work with your schedule, not everybody pulls a 9-5.

I agree here. I mean if we are talking waiting a couple weeks until this rotation is done that’s one thing. No, you aren’t in crisis, it isn’t emergent. But it is necessary and it won’t be the kind of thing where you do a 4-session package and you’re golden. But putting it off say, until 4th year, I would not recommend. I saw someone every 2 weeks for most of MS3 and 4. It’s doable. But you have to make it a priority.

Your life will generally only get busier and you’ll have less control over your schedule from now until you’re an attending.

 

[Goro]

I probably should talk to somebody but where is the time. My hours for the next 8 weeks are pretty much 4:00am-6pm including every week day and Saturdays. Most psychologists/psychiatrists don’t work Sunday

Call a mental health chat line. They work 24/7

 

[Goro]

I wouldn’t advise delaying attacking the stress pile. Don’t wait until you start having mental breakdowns to get help is my advise. Life is gona life, you can’t keep putting your mental health on the back burner. Too many med students and residents are committing suicide. Get ahead of the problem if you’re able. There are a lot of therapists that can work with your schedule, not everybody pulls a 9-5.

I agree 1000%. Opie needs to learn about developing adequate coping skills. The time for that is now, not during an acute crisis

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There are online therapists whom you can access at odd hours. Talkspace is one site, there are others. I have no relationship with them, financial or otherwise.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Thank you all. I will try one of these because sometimes it feels like my OCD gets the best of my. I over analyze my interactions way too much. For example “did a resident not respond to my text saying I saw the patient in room xxx and no updates” that must mean I’m going to get a bad eval

 

[GoSpursGo]

I think this question has been asked and answered.

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