Would you feel safe with a PA as your PCP?

[ndafife]

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I switched to an NP a few years ago and have had no issues. Much easier/faster to get appointments for what I need to see a provider for as a healthy 20-something year old

 

[sliceofbread136]

Yearly well checks have no survival benefit, so I am fine with no one as my PCP. Since that is the case then ya I'm sure a PA could do the job just as well as nobody

 

[sliceofbread136]

The focus really shouldn't be on the training differences, but rather how much of those differences are actually translated into practice. I imagine there wouldn't be much discernible difference between a PA with 20 years of experience in a particularly specialty versus an MD with 20 years of experience in the same specialty.

You would be wrong, different training and preform different functions

 

[Azete]

You would be wrong, different training and preform different functions

Not advocating PA autonomy, but I've seen them perform just about every function an MD does -- including many advanced surgical procedures start to finish.

 

[DrBowtie]

Not advocating PA autonomy, but I've seen them perform just about every function an MD does -- including many advanced surgical procedures start to finish.

Define advanced surgical procedures.

 

[Psai]

The focus really shouldn't be on the training differences, but rather how much of those differences are actually translated into practice. I imagine there wouldn't be much discernible difference between a PA with 20 years of experience in a particularly specialty versus an MD with 20 years of experience in the same specialty.

That's because you don't know what you're talking about. Pas function on the level of good interns, they're not even on the same level as residents. The knowledge gap is wide even when they have years of experience.

 

[Azete]

That's because you don't know what you're talking about. Pas function on the level of good interns, they're not even on the same level as residents. The knowledge gap is wide even when they have years of experience.

My point was the majority of the knowledge advantage physicians have is usually forgotten with time (I don't even remember 70% of what I learned 3 weeks ago), and the relevant science is reinforced as it's experienced day-to-day. Over time, theoretically, there should be a convergence point as the PA gains relevant knowledge and the MD loses irrelevant knowledge.

Obviously this is all meaningless conjecture, and you're probably right that even the best PAs aren't on the level of the worst MDs, but if we're talking about outcomes I think there comes a point where there wouldn't be a statistical difference between them in some specialties.

 

[NimbleNavigator]

My point was the majority of the knowledge advantage physicians have is usually forgotten with time (I don't even remember 70% of what I learned 3 weeks ago), and the relevant science is reinforced as it's experienced day-to-day. Over time, theoretically, there should be a convergence point as the PA gains relevant knowledge and the MD loses irrelevant knowledge.

Obviously this is all meaningless conjecture, and you're probably right that even the best PAs aren't on the level of the worst MDs, but if we're talking about outcomes I think there comes a point where there wouldn't be a statistical difference between them in some specialties.

Interesting idea. I never thought of it that way. To be honest, I feel like the main reason why I would trust a physician more than a PA is just the fact that the admissions requirements for MD schools are much more stringent. It's also the reason why, after seeing some of the admission stats to med school for URMs, I wouldn't really trust a URM physician.

From the stats I've seen of most PA programs, the average matriculant is pretty much on par with your average DO student. I guess I could see a PA being on par with a DO after a while.

Honestly, I think the whole idea of PA's is pretty dumb though. If we're gonna have PA's and NP's, why not just do what the UK does with its 6-year bachelor med programs?

 

[Azete]

Interesting idea. I never thought of it that way. To be honest, I feel like the main reason why I would trust a physician more than a PA is just the fact that the admissions requirements for MD schools are much more stringent. It's also the reason why, after seeing some of the admission stats to med school for URMs, I wouldn't really trust a URM physician.

From the stats I've seen of most PA programs, the average matriculant is pretty much on par with your average DO student. I guess I could see a PA being on par with a DO after a while.

Honestly, I think the whole idea of PA's is pretty dumb though. If we're gonna have PA's and NP's, why not just do what the UK does with its 6-year bachelor med programs?

I think you could apply this logic laterally (i.e comparing MD students to DO), but there are a lot of people that choose the PA route specifically for the lifestyle. Some genius people want to live comfortably without the hours, responsibility, or sacrificing their entire adult youth to training. Some of them get tired of the lack of autonomy and end up in med school anyway -- I'd venture to guess there's at least 1 PA (or NP) in every med school in the US.

 

[Psai]

My point was the majority of the knowledge advantage physicians have is usually forgotten with time (I don't even remember 70% of what I learned 3 weeks ago), and the relevant science is reinforced as it's experienced day-to-day. Over time, theoretically, there should be a convergence point as the PA gains relevant knowledge and the MD loses irrelevant knowledge.

Obviously this is all meaningless conjecture, and you're probably right that even the best PAs aren't on the level of the worst MDs, but if we're talking about outcomes I think there comes a point where there wouldn't be a statistical difference between them in some specialties.

So if I earn a bachelor's degree in physics, I will be on the same level as someone with middle school science because azete forgets 70% of what he forgot 3 weeks ago. Makes sense.

You're what, an M1? You wouldn't recognize relevant knowledge if it came out of the woods in a clown costume and bit you on the butt.

You can't compare the two fields. They are totally different in knowledge, experience, responsibility and the list goes on

 

[croak]

If you want to be a doctor go to medical school, finish residency, and leave behind the notion of 'sacrificing an entire adult youth.' There are no shortcuts—this was never (becoming a physician) supposed to be an easy ride for a self serving personal lifestyle. Either you're a doc, or you're not. What's happened to healthcare in the US? It remains puzzling why some people even bother applying to medical school believing in some twisted way their 'lifestyle' comes first. Your patients come first.

 

[Azete]

So if I earn a bachelor's degree in physics, I will be on the same level as someone with middle school science because azete forgets 70% of what he forgot 3 weeks ago. Makes sense.

You're what, an M1? You wouldn't recognize relevant knowledge if it came out of the woods in a clown costume and bit you on the butt.

You can't compare the two fields. They are totally different in knowledge, experience, responsibility and the list goes on

Yeah man, that's exactly what I'm saying 🙄

 

[Mad Jack]

I haven't seen that except perhaps in the military trained PAs but it may vary by program idk. A lot of MDs don't use that knowledge either FWIW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

>a lot of MDs don't use that knowledge

The good ones do. Path is basically the cornerstone of good medical practice.

 

[Psai]

If you want to be a doctor go to medical school, finish residency, and leave behind the notion of 'sacrificing an entire adult youth.' There are no shortcuts—this was never (becoming a physician) supposed to be an easy ride for a self serving personal lifestyle. Either you're a doc, or you're not. What's happened to healthcare in the US? It remains puzzling why some people even bother applying to medical school believing in some twisted way their 'lifestyle' comes first. Your patients come first.

When the system refuses to treat you like a professional, there's no point in acting like one. Nothing in life is free.

 

[Donald Juan]

My point was the majority of the knowledge advantage physicians have is usually forgotten with time (I don't even remember 70% of what I learned 3 weeks ago), and the relevant science is reinforced as it's experienced day-to-day. Over time, theoretically, there should be a convergence point as the PA gains relevant knowledge and the MD loses irrelevant knowledge.

Obviously this is all meaningless conjecture, and you're probably right that even the best PAs aren't on the level of the worst MDs, but if we're talking about outcomes I think there comes a point where there wouldn't be a statistical difference between them in some specialties.

So, you're thinking, PA trains 2 years, and works 18 years, they must be equivalent to a MD trained 9 years and practiced 11 years. Both have 20 years experience, right? And, as you said, the MD forgot/doesn't use a lot of what he learned in M1-M2.

But you are far off base.
1: PAs, outside of their 2 years of school, never do anything comparable to what MDs do for all of their training (and as you'll learn later, most of it actually comes in residency...as do even longer hours).

2: this background of educational experience isn't hindering time in practice or taking away from on-the-job experience, but it is enhancing it. Everything we do, when we make decisions, it is based on a background of bigger understanding, which is why we learn more when practicing with an attending; not just, "oh, this is what I was told to do," you know why.

3: physicians are trained to be ones who are constantly looking into educating ourselves further to find answers to clinical questions. We don't just defer to a superior; we lose sleep because it's on us.

4: You're whole premise seems to imply that a physician will be most knowledgeable immediately after med school (or step 1, or residency, or whatever other standard you want to put). The truth is you get better with practice. It's not every year goes by you get dumber and dumber because you forgot the krebs cycle. You're better and better every year of working and taking care of patients.

 

[Psai]

So, you're thinking, PA trains 2 years, and works 18 years, they must be equivalent to a MD trained 9 years and practiced 11 years. Both have 20 years experience, right? And, as you said, the MD forgot/doesn't use a lot of what he learned in M1-M2.

But you are far off base.
1: PAs, outside of their 2 years of school, never do anything comparable to what MDs do for all of their training (and as you'll learn later, most of it actually comes in residency...as do even longer hours).

2: this background of educational experience isn't hindering time in practice or taking away from on-the-job experience, but it is enhancing it. Everything we do, when we make decisions, it is based on a background of bigger understanding, which is why we learn more when practicing with an attending; not just, "oh, this is what I was told to do," you know why.

3: physicians are trained to be ones who are constantly looking into educating ourselves further to find answers to clinical questions. We don't just defer to a superior; we lose sleep because it's on us.

4: You're whole premise seems to imply that a physician will be most knowledgeable immediately after med school (or step 1, or residency, or whatever other standard you want to put). The truth is you get better with practice. It's not every year goes by you get dumber and dumber because you forgot the krebs cycle. You're better and better every year of working and taking care of patients.

No you don't understand, I just started medical school and you're wrong. I know everything already.

 

[Donald Juan]

My point was the majority of the knowledge advantage physicians have is usually forgotten with time (I don't even remember 70% of what I learned 3 weeks ago), and the relevant science is reinforced as it's experienced day-to-day. Over time, theoretically, there should be a convergence point as the PA gains relevant knowledge and the MD loses irrelevant knowledge.

Obviously this is all meaningless conjecture, and you're probably right that even the best PAs aren't on the level of the worst MDs, but if we're talking about outcomes I think there comes a point where there wouldn't be a statistical difference between them in some specialties.

I realize my last post was wordy. I have drawn a picture to demonstrate. The y-axis is knowledge, the x-axis is time beginning after training (residency or PA school). You see, by your viewpoint, you think MDs knowledge base stagnates, and PAs catch up...which also implies that past your convergence point the PA will actually surpass the knowledge. This is obviously = x/0.

 

[Azete]

So, you're thinking, PA trains 2 years, and works 18 years, they must be equivalent to a MD trained 9 years and practiced 11 years. Both have 20 years experience, right? And, as you said, the MD forgot/doesn't use a lot of what he learned in M1-M2.

But you are far off base.
1: PAs, outside of their 2 years of school, never do anything comparable to what MDs do for all of their training (and as you'll learn later, most of it actually comes in residency...as do even longer hours).

2: this background of educational experience isn't hindering time in practice or taking away from on-the-job experience, but it is enhancing it. Everything we do, when we make decisions, it is based on a background of bigger understanding, which is why we learn more when practicing with an attending; not just, "oh, this is what I was told to do," you know why.

3: physicians are trained to be ones who are constantly looking into educating ourselves further to find answers to clinical questions. We don't just defer to a superior; we lose sleep because it's on us.

4: You're whole premise seems to imply that a physician will be most knowledgeable immediately after med school (or step 1, or residency, or whatever other standard you want to put). The truth is you get better with practice. It's not every year goes by you get dumber and dumber because you forgot the krebs cycle. You're better and better every year of working and taking care of patients.

Agree with everything here. Also acknowledge that my perspective is based on a limited frame of reference.

But I never said anything about equivalence. Knowledge wise, most (probably all) MDs will always surpass midlevels. I was only speaking to outcomes, in which case a certain exposure and practice with relevant science would probably reach a point of diminishing returns in both cases. Again, just meaningless conjecture -- but that's the point of a message board. Psai gets a little caught up in his feelings sometimes.

 

[NimbleNavigator]

Agree with everything here. Also acknowledge that my perspective is based on a limited frame of reference.

But I never said anything about equivalence. Knowledge wise, most (probably all) MDs will always surpass midlevels. I was only speaking to outcomes, in which case a certain exposure and practice with relevant science would probably reach a point of diminishing returns in both cases. Again, just meaningless conjecture -- but that's the point of a message board. Psai gets a little caught up in his feelings sometimes.

Yeah Psai is funny that way lol. I love his posts though and I generally agree with him. I like people who have strong opinions that they've clearly thought deeply about. I hate it when people just spew whatever they've been told without actually thinking about if/why they believe it.

Also, love the chart @Donald Juan. Even though it's clearly MS-paint tier, it does a nice job of illustrating your point. It definitely swayed my opinion. I was unsure at first but now I agree with you.

 

[vendtex]

>a lot of MDs don't use that knowledge

The good ones do. Path is basically the cornerstone of good medical practice.

Agreed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IlDestriero]

I see a physician.
If you're young and healthy, it probably doesn't matter.
If I had to choose, I'd always choose a physician.
If I was planning on seeing a physician and I got the bait and switch, which used to be a real issue, I'd make it clear that I was here to see the physician, and if that was a problem it's time to find a new one.
I like my primary care physician. He's got good hours, is close, in my plan, is quite bright and experienced, and I'll never see a pretender there.


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Il Destriero

 

[managedcarefin]

The entitlement and boasting in this thread is awful. However the address bar says sdn so I'm not shocked.

 

[NimbleNavigator]

The entitlement and boasting in this thread is awful. However the address bar says sdn so I'm not shocked.

Caring about your health to the point where you critically evaluate your options = entitled?

 

[IlDestriero]

I'm entitled to see a physician if I want to. When I needed to go to an urgent care to take care of a problem that I already diagnosed, I still called ahead to make sure that I would see a physician and not a midlevel. My money, my choice.
The place has everyone see a physician, so I suspect I'm not alone in my "entitled" thinking in my wealthy suburb.


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Il Destriero

 

[Mr Roboto]

Interesting idea. I never thought of it that way. To be honest, I feel like the main reason why I would trust a physician more than a PA is just the fact that the admissions requirements for MD schools are much more stringent. It's also the reason why, after seeing some of the admission stats to med school for URMs, I wouldn't really trust a URM physician.

From the stats I've seen of most PA programs, the average matriculant is pretty much on par with your average DO student. I guess I could see a PA being on par with a DO after a while.

Honestly, I think the whole idea of PA's is pretty dumb though. If we're gonna have PA's and NP's, why not just do what the UK does with its 6-year bachelor med programs?

Cute.

 

[IlDestriero]

How could you have a series of lectures and a lengthy exam on the JNC 8 guidelines?


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Il Destriero

 

[NimbleNavigator]

there is more in common than there is different in PA/MD education.

...Residency?

 

[vendtex]

Residency is obviously a huge part of the training of new physicians. PAs can do optional residencies that last between 1 and 1.5 years. These are often done alongside the newly minted MDs but aren't as long. I know several MDs who are in residency now and they say the PAs in their residency cohort had the same hours and requirements as they did. Not all PAs do residencies and this is why the physicians who supervise/collaborate with PAs are the ones who determine what a PA can and cannot do. I have no problem with this as it's simply correct that MDs have more training and education than PAs and therefore the supervising MDs should determine how much or how little a PA can do. Most physicians who employ/supervise PAs will keep the tether relatively short to begin with but as the PA gains more experience you'll find that the physicians only provide the minimum amount of supervision legally required because the trust level is so high.

and some MDs use PAs as a money pot and provide next to no supervision. That's a dangerous situation, IMO.

 

[vendtex]

I don't think I can say anything which would allay your fears (or fearmongering) for it assumes that PAs can't or don't exhibit the ability to say "No, I don't feel comfortable treating this patient." If you are aware of an MD who employs a PA to practice inappropriately then I really hope you report both to the medical licensing board.

Most of the PA experiences I've had were in rural settings and the concept of a PA saying "I don't feel comfortable treating this patient" is unheard of.....more common is the failure to recognize that they they are over their heads. There is nothing to report to a board, because these people are "technically" meeting the minimal requirements of supervision. I've also known some that were excellent in the military.

 

[managedcarefin]

Caring about your health to the point where you critically evaluate your options = entitled?

Assuming a PA is unable to give you adequate primary care is entitled.

 

[NimbleNavigator]

Assuming a PA is unable to give you adequate primary care is entitled.

I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone use the word entitled the way you're using it. What do you mean by entitled?

 

[IlDestriero]

The professors (a PharmD and an MD) who taught this section over a period of three lectures (2 hours each) went into significant depth about the epidemiology, etiology, workup, and treatment of HTN. We had to know all the medications and their mechanisms in addition to the treatment guidelines and side-effects. This culminated in a 100 question multiple choice exam.

Some topics we had had to know about were the treatment thresholds, first and second line antihypertensives, appropriate combinations, the place of ACEi/ARBs in African Americans, the differences between Dihydropyridine CCB and Non-Dihydropyridine CCBs and their uses, the different types of diuretics and their effects on electrolytes, how to manage HTN in patients with chronic kidney disease, the cause of the "-inipril cough"and what to do about it, the many different types of Beta-blockers and when to use them, etc. I can't do justice to all of the topics but I hope I've done a good enough job in showing the depth they went to.

This same exam was what the MD students took. We all take the same exam together in the same lecture hall. Like I said there is more in common than there is different in PA/MD education. The PA class doesn't take as many classes as the MD students do and we definitely don't claim to have the depth of knowledge as physicians.

Fortunately that's not how my medical school functioned.


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Il Destriero

 

[vendtex]

Rural situations are difficult, no doubt. If someone is treating a patient outside of their expertise and failing to refer to the appropriate provider then I imagine the medical board would definitely want to know. If you are aware of the circumstances and fail to make a report then I wonder if it either happened or if you are permitting an unsafe situation to continue. PAs are not immune from liability simply because there is a supervising MD. PAs hold medical licenses issues by the state medical board and carry their own malpractice insurance policies.

Knowing about things that happen and knowing enough to report to the board without a violation of HIPAA are not the same, so it is somewhat problematic. Also, two of the PAs that l had these kinds of experiences were local homeboys who were loved by the small town and reporting these things would result in retaliation whether or not it's legal to do so. So in a practical sense, it's sometimes easier to just leave the situation.

 

[IlDestriero]

What is "unfortunate" about what I described and how would it be done for the "fortunate"?

We had a fairly traditional, though integrated, curriculum as opposed to 100 question exams on 3 lectures on specific topics. We would never have had that lecture series or exam as we covered the meds in pharmacology, hypertension in physiology, pathology, etc. in the preclinical years. Of course there were clinical group discussions on these common case management plans, but they didn't have exams. Obviously you'd see the material again in the clinical years
Don't go looking for arguments that I'm not making. I have no problems with PAs, though I'm not interested in having one as my PCP. For now at least I have that option.


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Il Destriero

 

[IlDestriero]

We, too, covered the topic in the lectures as you described.

Well that would make the additional lectures and exam all the more useless than wouldn't it.
Which was my point.


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Il Destriero

 

[IlDestriero]

Here's the point.
Repetitive lectures are of pretty questionable value, and don't seem to be a good use of the limited time available to students. Repetitive exams and 100 question exams on very limited topics are probably many people's idea of hell, have even less value, and are an even worse use of limited medical student time. Medicine has more than enough exams already without that nonsense. Adult education doesn't require repetitive spoon feeding and middle school style weekly mastery exams. These guidelines aren't groundbreaking rocket science either.
That's why I said that I was (apparently very) fortunate to have had a traditional curriculum. My criticism doesn't require any nuance.
And yes, I am a verified physician and faculty member. Though you don't need to be one to understand my comments. I would have been annoyed to repeat 6 hours of lecture material that was already covered and even more annoyed to have to prepare for a ridiculous exam on material already covered in other exams. There are far better ways to reinforce that material, like small group clinical discussions, which are a nice clinical tie in during the grind of the first 18-24 months. You can also hand out the flow diagram from the new guidelines. It's 2 pages long. The test must have had more words than the whole consensus statement.


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Il Destriero

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I can't help but to wonder if you read what I wrote in light of your comments. At no point did we "repeat" any topics but rather the topic of HTN was taught through the lens of each class. Pathophys educated us on the systems and pathology which causes HTN, pharmacology did the medications and mechanisms, clinical medicine did the workup and treatment, etc. Did you actually read what I wrote or did you scan the first line or two and then fire off a knee-jerk reply?

It's very simple: if you covered HTN in path, pharm, and clinical medicine why did you need three lectures over 2 hours just on JNC-8? If you have the appropriate foundation (and you say that you do), going over JNC-8 should take about 20 minutes at most.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

Interesting idea. I never thought of it that way. To be honest, I feel like the main reason why I would trust a physician more than a PA is just the fact that the admissions requirements for MD schools are much more stringent. It's also the reason why, after seeing some of the admission stats to med school for URMs, I wouldn't really trust a URM physician.

From the stats I've seen of most PA programs, the average matriculant is pretty much on par with your average DO student. I guess I could see a PA being on par with a DO after a while.

Honestly, I think the whole idea of PA's is pretty dumb though. If we're gonna have PA's and NP's, why not just do what the UK does with its 6-year bachelor med programs?

😕 Man you do know that once you get in to med school the "URM boost" doesn't apply for residency right? They still have to pass all the same exams as non URM physicians to get licensed. No medical school is going to let an unqualified student graduate and or no residency program will pick them up. There are no handouts.

Also there is published data that shows that over 90% of people pass Step 1 even if their stats matriculating into med school are below the matriculant average. I think something like MCAT above a 25 and a GPA of like 3.3 or 3.4. Honestly a lot of your comments are inflammatory, sensationalized and opinionated yet you do no back it up with a lot of data. Making broad sweeping unsubstantiated generalizations is never a good idea.

 

[NimbleNavigator]

😕 Man you do know that once you get in to med school the "URM boost" doesn't apply for residency right? They still have to pass all the same exams as non URM physicians to get licensed. No medical school is going to let an unqualified student graduate and or no residency program will pick them up. There are no handouts.

Also there is published data that shows that over 90% of people pass Step 1 even if their stats matriculating into med school are below the matriculant average. I think something like MCAT above a 25 and a GPA of like 3.3 or 3.4. Honestly a lot of your comments are inflammatory, sensationalized and opinionated yet you do no back it up with a lot of data. Making broad sweeping unsubstantiated generalizations is never a good idea.

Honestly, matching into a residency isn't that high of a bar IMO. People from DO and Carib schools pass all the tests and match to residencies.

If I'm seeing a doctor I don't want someone who had a 3.3 GPA and a 25 on their MCAT. You take the URM who got in with affirmative action, I'll take the real MD.

 

[username456789]

The focus really shouldn't be on the training differences, but rather how much of those differences are actually translated into practice. I imagine there wouldn't be much discernible difference between a PA with 20 years of experience in a particular specialty versus an MD with 20 years of experience in the same specialty.

I am a brand new attending in Dermatology and work with two PAs. One has been working in Derm for 22 years, the other 18.

They are both good guys, and can handle a good bit of the straight forward stuff; however, it is unbelievable how limited their overall knowledge fund is, but also nice to see how eager they are to learn. I've casually mentioned interesting or challenging cases I've encountered and am usually met with "wow, what is that?" or "intersting....can you tell me more about that?" And these are not zebras or "tertiary care interesting". Just a few instances of conditions or presentations you don't see every single day in private practice dermatology.

Obviously this is just one person's experience, but it has actually surprised me how shallow their pool of knowledge goes.

 

[mehc012]

Honestly, matching into a residency isn't that high of a bar IMO. People from DO and Carib schools pass all the tests and match to residencies.

Sure, then maybe the testing and matching system is completely flawed. On the other hand, maybe your standards are.

Sorry, you're going to have to show me something with substance before I'm going to take "DOs and the (relatively) few Carib students who actually make it are dangerous because they were worse students back in undergrad even though they pass all measures in medical school" makes logical sense to me. You're basically saying that MCAT/undergrad performance is more relevant to your ability to practice medicine than Step/medical school performance, which I have yet to see any support for.

 

[NimbleNavigator]

Sure, then maybe the testing and matching system is completely flawed. On the other hand, maybe your standards are.

Sorry, you're going to have to show me something with substance before I'm going to take "DOs and the (relatively) few Carib students who actually make it are dangerous because they were worse students back in undergrad even though they pass all measures in medical school" makes logical sense to me. You're basically saying that MCAT/undergrad performance is more relevant to your ability to practice medicine than Step/medical school performance, which I have yet to see any support for.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying I don't want to take any chances with dumb physicians.

Do you really think that, on average, the 3.4/25 crowd is going to be sharper than the 3.6/30 crowd? Please. Give me a break.

 

[mehc012]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying I don't want to take any chances with dumb physicians.

Do you really think that, on average, the 3.4/25 crowd is going to be sharper than the 3.6/30 crowd? Please. Give me a break.

You're literally saying that the fact that they got a low college gpa and MCAT has more bearing on your decision than that they had a good Step and medical school performance. I don't see evidence to support that view.

This entire post can be summed up as "I'm not saying that...I'm more-than-implying it. Don't you agree with my implication?"

 

[Mad Jack]

The entitlement and boasting in this thread is awful. However the address bar says sdn so I'm not shocked.

In basically every other country in the world, people accept no less than a physician for their treatment. We are the only nation that has, on a large scale, decided that not everyone deserves providers with the full depth and breath of medical training to provide for them. I'd question more why you think it is okay that Americans settle for less, yet here you are judging us when we ask for the international standard.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Honestly, matching into a residency isn't that high of a bar IMO. People from DO and Carib schools pass all the tests and match to residencies.

If I'm seeing a doctor I don't want someone who had a 3.3 GPA and a 25 on their MCAT. You take the URM who got in with affirmative action, I'll take the real MD.

This is one of the stupidest things I've read in some time. Undergrad has zero bearing on medical knowledge or skills. Honestly, even med school isn't that big of a deal. Residency is where doctors are made and that's what matters.

 

[jw3600]

It's OK. There have been times where it's been

Them: "So is that all, Mr Goro?
Me: [thinking][ "That's Dr Goro to you"

It will be OK, really.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled SDN thread.

Prototypical medical school administrator. Admit you were wrong and own up to it. Jesus the culture you guys cultivate is disgusting.

 

[GadRads]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying I don't want to take any chances with dumb physicians.

Do you really think that, on average, the 3.4/25 crowd is going to be sharper than the 3.6/30 crowd? Please. Give me a break.

Have you even started medical school? Tons of naiveté in your post.

 

[Goro]

Read post 22

And untie your knickers. They're in a knot.

Prototypical medical school administrator. Admit you were wrong and own up to it. Jesus the culture you guys cultivate is disgusting.

 

[Wilf]

This is one of the stupidest things I've read in some time. Undergrad has zero bearing on medical knowledge or skills. Honestly, even med school isn't that big of a deal. Residency is where doctors are made and that's what matters.

What you say has some truth but it is incomplete. Undergrad has zero bearing on medical knowledge but it often gives good insight into someone's natural intelligence. I am at the end of residency and it long ago became apparent that your last two sentences are inaccurate.

 

[IlDestriero]

I can't help but to wonder if you read what I wrote in light of your comments. At no point did we "repeat" any topics but rather the topic of HTN was taught through the lens of each class. Pathophys educated us on the systems and pathology which causes HTN, pharmacology did the medications and mechanisms, clinical medicine did the workup and treatment, etc. Did you actually read what I wrote or did you scan the first line or two and then fire off a knee-jerk reply?

Did you read what you wrote?


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Il Destriero