i put this in the pre-allo forum too but i figured current students would better help me out. im in utmb, but on the waitlist at southwestern. which one would yall pick. i really liked both schools, but im afraid that sw might be too competitive and that utmb doesnt have a great rep. i know i should wait until i actually get accepted, but i think i should start thinking about it now. i think id be happier at galveston but id regret not goin to sw when residency match comes along. im kinda hoping i dont get in so i wont even have to make a decision.
would you pick sw or utmb?
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D
dredd
Both UTMB and southwestern will be competetive places to be at. Even if UTMB is some sort of a slacker place, realize that this will be reflected in the school's poor reputation and your poor USMLE score if true. I would definitely choose southwestern, I had some classmates who ended up there who love it there. Besides having an excellent academic reputation, your clinical experience during third and fourth year should be really good. You may even want to write SW a letter letting them know that you have been accepted to UTMB but want to go to SW.
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Neither is a top school. UTSW might have a better regional reputation but I don't think it makes that much difference. You will basically have the same shot in the residency game as a UTSW grad with similar stats. Stick with UTMB especially if you feel you will be happiest there.
Congrats on getting in.
Congrats on getting in.
thats what i was thinking as well. but its weird when everyone is so certain that sw is a better school. look at the post above yours, for instance. i also read that utmb average umsle score last yr was 225 and only 2 people didnt pass? is that really good and how does that compare to sw?
D
dredd
Step I scores are only a cutoff when it comes to residency applications. 225 is good, as it is above the US avg. You should compare the two match lists. Even though UTMB may have ~ the same number of students matching into the competetive specialties, I'd bet that UTSW's students match into more prestigious programs, on a whole, then the UTMB students. They are both state schools so you can't lose in that respect, but UTSW has a national reputation (stronger then baylor in some departments). UTMB does not.
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Sina,
Look, man, no one is going to tell you that UTMB is a better school that SW, because it just isn't. Even the dean at UTMB would tell you that. My dad is on faculty at UTMB and HE would tell you that SW is better. So, don't expect anyone on these forums to try and convince you that UTMB is a better school. If you want to go there, you should. If you feel you would be happy there, then go. I was born in Galveston because my dad did his med school and residency at UTMB. Galveston isn't such a great town, but it's better than it used to be! It's cheap to live there and they just recently opened a Starbucks! Wow! Seriously, though, I know lots of students that are happy at UTMB and they aren't in class all that much. They're strictly PBL so I think they're in school from 9-12 or something. It's a very laid back place and the gunner thing really doesn't seem to be an issue there. I don't know much about SW, so I won't make any comments about that. So, go with your gut. But realize that SW is unequivocally better, though not necessarily better for you. Good luck and congrats on your acceptance.
Look, man, no one is going to tell you that UTMB is a better school that SW, because it just isn't. Even the dean at UTMB would tell you that. My dad is on faculty at UTMB and HE would tell you that SW is better. So, don't expect anyone on these forums to try and convince you that UTMB is a better school. If you want to go there, you should. If you feel you would be happy there, then go. I was born in Galveston because my dad did his med school and residency at UTMB. Galveston isn't such a great town, but it's better than it used to be! It's cheap to live there and they just recently opened a Starbucks! Wow! Seriously, though, I know lots of students that are happy at UTMB and they aren't in class all that much. They're strictly PBL so I think they're in school from 9-12 or something. It's a very laid back place and the gunner thing really doesn't seem to be an issue there. I don't know much about SW, so I won't make any comments about that. So, go with your gut. But realize that SW is unequivocally better, though not necessarily better for you. Good luck and congrats on your acceptance.
no doubt SW is better and i dont think that was my question. my gf going to sw or baylor is also a different factor that im gonna have to deal with and i just wanna know if utmb is gonna hurt my chances of getting a good residency that i would be able to obtain with SW reputation. thanks for all the feedback. could you tell me about some of utmbs residency match stats or where i could find some?
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A UTMB student could land any residency a UTSW student could land. There just isn't THAT much difference between the Texas state schools. I don't pay attention to rankings. I pay attention to who is out on the interview trail with me. I saw just as many UTMB students as I saw UTSW students. Your med school's name will not get you a residency (with two notable exceptions). Your individual effort in med school will give you best possible shot at the residency of your choice. Do not sacrifice happiness for this perceived gap between two schools. The rep thing will not make or break you...but your happiness might.
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Dude,
I go to UTMB, 1st choice. Very happy here and so are my friends (well... now that we're 3rd years, hehe, suckas...).
Had 2 surgery residents here who went to UTSW who both said they were miserable there. But there are plenty of people who love it there. (My intern in particular was the only med student on the vascular surgery service, had to see all 30 patients on their census, Doppler them, change dressings, then write a note before 6:00 am resident rounds. A couple of times, she was involved in cutting-edge surgical technique where she was in the OR for 14 hours (7 am - 9 pm) while they were trying to figure it out and manage complications. I think it was all wasted because the patient ended up dying. I would've shat in my pants and rolled home in a fetal position, but that's just me. To her, surgery here at UTMB is NOTHING compared to UTSW. It's way easy for her. So that's a plus for her.)
Across the nation, everyone knows UTSW and Baylor. No question. I know nothing about UTSW; but if you're the kind of person who will regret not going to UTSW because of its reputation, you need to go to UTSW. Everyone on the Allo board will tell you the worse thing in the world is to sit through is a classmate during lunch rambling about how he "could've/should've gone to Harvard" or whatever but didn't. If it's that important to you, then go and save yourself and the people around you grief. (I say this only out of love, dude, it's not personal).
Galveston is a good place to go to school. It's fun, the students are normal, everyone hangs out, your friends live 1-2 blocks away from you. It's a craphole of a town, but it's cheap and there's no traffic. Your patients are very very sick, they're very very poor, and the bureaucracy here will PISS YOU OFF. Some days, you'll love your census of 1 and going home at noon... other days, you will KILL someone for scheduling 45 patients for clinic, plus "afternoon" rounds at 9 pm. Sometimes, you waste a lot of time because of your stupid faculty/service. Sometimes, you learn absolutely nothing. Other times, you smirk because you're so happy you didn't choose another school. 1st year is all party, 2nd year will suck because you feel like you learned nothing going into the boards, 3rd year you will be dazed and confused, and 4th year you will be happy to get the hell out.
4 years of med school misery is NOT worth it. You have plenty of time to prostitute yourself out to be miserable (3+ years of residency, 1st couple of years of establishing yourself as an attending). And if you're gonna be miserable around a bunch of dumb@sses, don't go there.
Other than environment, I would let board scores, pass rates, %matching 1-3rd choice, and match list guide you. % match can be deceptive, especially when you wanna do ophtho/rad/ortho where getting your 10th choice will be awesome (utmb doesn't publish this, but UTH does). And match lists can be deceptive because some unheard-of programs may be the best in their field. So look at all of them in totality. Ask yourself: "Will I be happy? Will I be ready for residency? Will I be happy going to the programs that these people got into?"
Here's our match list for last year:
http://www.utmb.edu/PDFs/Match_2003.pdf
It won't raise the dead or anything. But keep asking questions and find the best place that fits you. I have a feeling no matter whatever school you go to, you will make the best of it. Lemme know if I can help.
I go to UTMB, 1st choice. Very happy here and so are my friends (well... now that we're 3rd years, hehe, suckas...).
Had 2 surgery residents here who went to UTSW who both said they were miserable there. But there are plenty of people who love it there. (My intern in particular was the only med student on the vascular surgery service, had to see all 30 patients on their census, Doppler them, change dressings, then write a note before 6:00 am resident rounds. A couple of times, she was involved in cutting-edge surgical technique where she was in the OR for 14 hours (7 am - 9 pm) while they were trying to figure it out and manage complications. I think it was all wasted because the patient ended up dying. I would've shat in my pants and rolled home in a fetal position, but that's just me. To her, surgery here at UTMB is NOTHING compared to UTSW. It's way easy for her. So that's a plus for her.)
Across the nation, everyone knows UTSW and Baylor. No question. I know nothing about UTSW; but if you're the kind of person who will regret not going to UTSW because of its reputation, you need to go to UTSW. Everyone on the Allo board will tell you the worse thing in the world is to sit through is a classmate during lunch rambling about how he "could've/should've gone to Harvard" or whatever but didn't. If it's that important to you, then go and save yourself and the people around you grief. (I say this only out of love, dude, it's not personal).
Galveston is a good place to go to school. It's fun, the students are normal, everyone hangs out, your friends live 1-2 blocks away from you. It's a craphole of a town, but it's cheap and there's no traffic. Your patients are very very sick, they're very very poor, and the bureaucracy here will PISS YOU OFF. Some days, you'll love your census of 1 and going home at noon... other days, you will KILL someone for scheduling 45 patients for clinic, plus "afternoon" rounds at 9 pm. Sometimes, you waste a lot of time because of your stupid faculty/service. Sometimes, you learn absolutely nothing. Other times, you smirk because you're so happy you didn't choose another school. 1st year is all party, 2nd year will suck because you feel like you learned nothing going into the boards, 3rd year you will be dazed and confused, and 4th year you will be happy to get the hell out.
4 years of med school misery is NOT worth it. You have plenty of time to prostitute yourself out to be miserable (3+ years of residency, 1st couple of years of establishing yourself as an attending). And if you're gonna be miserable around a bunch of dumb@sses, don't go there.
Other than environment, I would let board scores, pass rates, %matching 1-3rd choice, and match list guide you. % match can be deceptive, especially when you wanna do ophtho/rad/ortho where getting your 10th choice will be awesome (utmb doesn't publish this, but UTH does). And match lists can be deceptive because some unheard-of programs may be the best in their field. So look at all of them in totality. Ask yourself: "Will I be happy? Will I be ready for residency? Will I be happy going to the programs that these people got into?"
Here's our match list for last year:
http://www.utmb.edu/PDFs/Match_2003.pdf
It won't raise the dead or anything. But keep asking questions and find the best place that fits you. I have a feeling no matter whatever school you go to, you will make the best of it. Lemme know if I can help.
wow dude thanks so much. i really appreciate everyone helping me out. im just asking all these questions cause i wanna make an educated decision but i honestly think ill be happy going to galveston. im not even in sw yet, and hopefully it will stay that way. 😉 btw, can you give me ur aim name or you can msg me. my screenname is dirtypersianman (one word)
thanks
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a lot of my old high school bball buddies go to utsw. pretty much all of them except me.
can't go wrong with either school though. Pick the school you feel more comfortable with and will be happier at.
can't go wrong with either school though. Pick the school you feel more comfortable with and will be happier at.
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Im also a 3rd year at UTMB - it was my 1st choice as well (btw, lowbudget, PM me and tell me who you are?)
ANyways, it depends on you. SWern is in Dallas. Great city if you like to party, but who has time to do that? Bad traffic. Bad part of town. Lots of gunners.
UTMB, well, Galveston isnt the best spot on earth, but its close to Houston, if you HAVE to have a big-city fix. People here are SOOOOO much nicer. We actually help each other out instead of trying to screw each other over. Everybody is nice and says hi when you pass them, at least if they know you. And people will go out of their way to help you, too.
(not that there isnt the occasional BFer, but I only know of ONE - and everybody hates him. He's 4th year this year)
Our curriculum is better structured than SWern, IMO. 1st year, we have class 8-12 (well, in anatomy and radiology, its 8-2, but big whoop), and 2nd year, class 1-5. We *do* have lectures, but the curriculum is heavily PBL based. From what I understand, SWern is a more "traditional" curriculum. Depends on what you want. Do you want 5 classes a semester with exams all on one day? Or do you want "block" classes where you get SOME clinical relevance even first year...and about one exam per month. (<--my favorite part).
And in rotations, well, it depends on the residents and departmetn, etc, but they DONT expect you to do the resident's work (like the poor person at SWern who had to do 30 pts and write notes before 6 am?!?). They DO expect you to do YOUR work, though, and arent pleased if you slack.
And yes, our class had a 225 average on the boards, and hopefully things will just get better from here.
I'd go for UTMB. It may not be well known nationally, but it is well known regionally. And our match list is NOT that bad.
Star
ANyways, it depends on you. SWern is in Dallas. Great city if you like to party, but who has time to do that? Bad traffic. Bad part of town. Lots of gunners.
UTMB, well, Galveston isnt the best spot on earth, but its close to Houston, if you HAVE to have a big-city fix. People here are SOOOOO much nicer. We actually help each other out instead of trying to screw each other over. Everybody is nice and says hi when you pass them, at least if they know you. And people will go out of their way to help you, too.
(not that there isnt the occasional BFer, but I only know of ONE - and everybody hates him. He's 4th year this year)
Our curriculum is better structured than SWern, IMO. 1st year, we have class 8-12 (well, in anatomy and radiology, its 8-2, but big whoop), and 2nd year, class 1-5. We *do* have lectures, but the curriculum is heavily PBL based. From what I understand, SWern is a more "traditional" curriculum. Depends on what you want. Do you want 5 classes a semester with exams all on one day? Or do you want "block" classes where you get SOME clinical relevance even first year...and about one exam per month. (<--my favorite part).
And in rotations, well, it depends on the residents and departmetn, etc, but they DONT expect you to do the resident's work (like the poor person at SWern who had to do 30 pts and write notes before 6 am?!?). They DO expect you to do YOUR work, though, and arent pleased if you slack.
And yes, our class had a 225 average on the boards, and hopefully things will just get better from here.
I'd go for UTMB. It may not be well known nationally, but it is well known regionally. And our match list is NOT that bad.
Star
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You're seriously full of crap if you believe that. UTSW is one of the top 20 schools in the US by any measure, and its internal medicine department is absolutely outstanding, one of the very best in the nation as well.
Seriously, how can any medical school with 4 Nobel Laureates and a host of National Academy of Science members NOT be known? Gimme a freaking break Fah-Q, you seriously have no idea what you're talking about.
ANYONE in medicine will know UTSW is awesome. Just like most laymen dont know about UCSF and how awesome it is, you might have similar trouble with lay people as well. But anyone in any position of power (ie residency directors, fellowship directors, etc) will tell you how prominent UTSW is.
While UTMB is a good school and you will get a great education if you go there, if you want a high powered residency, especially in internal medicine or surgery, UTSW is where to go. The profs there are ridiculously well connected and since a lot of the most competitive residences are academically oriented, and a lot of academics collaborate on research projects, a good letter from UTSW from a prominent doctor is going to help you out a ton.
So I think education-wise you would do great anywhere, especially if you're not interested in some competitive subspecialty. But if you even have an inkling towards some competitive medicine or sugery subspecialty, I think UTSW will take you a long way. It is indeed a regional powerhouse, but its definitely known nationally to people within the field.
i think your putting too much emphasis on reputation on not enough on class rank and board scores. a ton of people get into utsw and baylor out of UT, but UT isnt some top 20 school. i think the student themselves is the most important factor. and i also think a lot of current students at each school will tell u that you're overempasizing reputation. i just hope i dont get in, cuase its gonna be a hard decision.
edit: i just read my post and i cant believe english isnt my second language.
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When in doubt...ask a pre-med who apparently already knows it all.
Gleevec, I want you to print out your post and put it somewhere safe. Then in 4 years when you are applying for residency and are very stressed about the match, I want you to pull out the copy of your post and read it for a good, stress-releasing laugh. You will quickly realize how ignorant you were and how much wiser you have become.
We all said and did really dumb things when we were pre-meds even when we had no idea what we were talking about. But it?s okay. We all grow and mature and you will too.
I?m not offended by your post and I hope you won?t take offense to mine. I?m really only trying to help. Good luck next year.
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I think you have completely misrepresented my post. You said that "Neither is a top school. UTSW might have a better regional reputation but I don't think it makes that much difference." This is what my post is disagreeing with. I think not only does UTSW have a better regional reputation, but is very prominent nationally as well. This takes nothing away from UTMB, I just think you are insulting UTSW unfairly here.
You also said, "You will basically have the same shot in the residency game as a UTSW grad with similar stats. Stick with UTMB especially if you feel you will be happiest there." This I actually agree with 100%.
Please, I dont know what you have against UTSW, Fah-Q, but to call it not a top school, well I don't really know what is a top school then (perhaps in your mind only Harvard and JHU?). So let me just emphasize again that my post was dealing with the first part of your statement (regarding UTSW's lack of reputation), which I completely disagree with. I am in complete agreement with you on the second part in terms of going where you will be happy.
Congrats on getting in Sina, and it seems as if you have already made your decision on UTMB, which is a great school as well.
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So you disagree that ?UTSW might have a better regional reputation but I don?t think it makes that much difference (in terms of residency placement).? But you agree that ?you will basically have the same shot in the residency game as a UTSW grad with similar stats.?
Please clarify because this seems contradictory.
Also, why do you consider describing UTMB and UTSW as similar an insult to UTSW? Please clarify.
I understand that you believe going to a ?top 20? school gives students an advantage when applying for residency, especially in the competitive surgical and medical subspecialties. I am simply trying to express my opinion that this is not the case. The most competitive residency spots go to the most competitive students, regardless of which school they come from. The average PD would rather take the top student from a no-name school than an above average student from a school with a great national reputation. This might not be the case with non-competitive specialties but I definitely think it is the case for the most competitive specialties.
Again, this is only my opinion and many will disagree and I will respect all informed opinions. However, uninformed opinions really don?t help the OP and only help to perpetuate myth.
Please clarify because this seems contradictory.
Also, why do you consider describing UTMB and UTSW as similar an insult to UTSW? Please clarify.
I understand that you believe going to a ?top 20? school gives students an advantage when applying for residency, especially in the competitive surgical and medical subspecialties. I am simply trying to express my opinion that this is not the case. The most competitive residency spots go to the most competitive students, regardless of which school they come from. The average PD would rather take the top student from a no-name school than an above average student from a school with a great national reputation. This might not be the case with non-competitive specialties but I definitely think it is the case for the most competitive specialties.
Again, this is only my opinion and many will disagree and I will respect all informed opinions. However, uninformed opinions really don?t help the OP and only help to perpetuate myth.
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Yet again you are completely misunderstanding my post. I think you should go where you will BE HAPPY. This is the part of your statement I agree with.
Also I didnt consider you comparing UTSW and UTMB an insult, I considered it uneducated that you said that UTSW has no reputation nationally. I think anyone who knows anything about the medical field knows that UTSW is good. Also I think you need to reread my post again, recognizing that the operative part of your sentence that I agree with is "Stick with UTMB especially if you feel you will be happiest there"
So please, stop putting words in my mouth and actually take time to read what Ive been saying. Just to summarize so you are not confused again:
1. I believe UTSW has a good national reputation, you think it does not, and I disagree with you on that. I fail to see how anyone could possibly say this with a straight face, and I dont think it helps the OP to spread misinformation about UTSW's reputation
2. You said you should go where you are happy. I agree with this.
3. You think UTSW won't give you an advantage in residency. Most people stay (and get accepted to) their med school's residency program. Since UTSW is good at IM and surgery, if you are interested in those particular programs, UTSW might be better. If you dont care where you do residency, then I doubt it matters, esp. since IM and surgery arent especially competitive from what Ive been told. Still, I think most people would agree that the school you attend matters only marginally in and of itself (letters, AOA, boards being way more important), however everyone seems to be saying that if your letter is from someone prominent in the field, that you have a better chance of landing a more competitive residency. I would imagine since UTSW is very good in a lot of depts and nationally known, that your letters might mean more. How much more, who knows? Its a minor factor anyway, but I think most of us would take any little thing we can in these application processes. So I think UTSW will help you to some degree in residency placement due to reputation, however not so much as to justify you not being happy there (this is where I believe you have misunderstood me once again, this is perhaps the one sentence that summarizes my view on this whole thread.)
4. #3 said, I think the most important thing is to be happy, regardless of ranking or reputation or whatnot.
So please read through this post carefully before posting. It seems as if you are hastily looking for contentious statements in my posts that are in fact not there. Im not here to pick a fight, but the amount of condescension in your posts is extremely annoying, and I dont think it does anyone, especially the OP, any good. So this time, feel free to read my posts carefully before replying, that should save us a lot of trouble.
Also, I wont try to convince you anymore that UTSW has a good reputation, if you dont consider it a good school, then there is absolutely nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. My error was trying to correct you on what its reputation generally is, and though I still fully believe UTSW is an elite school, there is no point in me wasting time trying to convince you of this.
That said, I think Sina will do well going wherever she'll be happiest. I dont think any school can stop you from doing well, and while I think reputation is a factor in residency, I doubt its a major one that cannot easily be compensated for in a variety of other areas. There's really nothing else I can say on this matter, as it seems to become a useless pissing match tangential to the topic at hand, so with that I will leave this thread in the hopes that everything works out for ya Sina. Im sure you will do great wherever you end up, as both UTSW and UTMB are great schools.
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QUOTE]
Also I didnt consider you comparing UTSW and UTMB an insult, I considered it uneducated that you said that UTSW has no reputation nationally.[/QUOTE]
I actually never said UTSW did not have a great national reputation. In fact, the only comment I made concerning reputation was I thought UTSW had a better regional reputation. I said it was not a top school (meaning top 3-5 in my mind). I actually think UTSW is a great school (thank God, because I do consider myself "anyone who knows anything about the medical field"). Is the difference between UTSW and UTMB so great that the OP should choose UTSW? Not in my opinion. This is all I wanted express.
Please refer above. It seems you are more guilty of this than me.
Again, please refer above. You assume too much.
I'm not sure I understand you here. Are you saying that greater than 50% of a med school class stays at that institution for residency? This is not true of any school that I am aware of. Please share with us how you came to this conclusion.
This is actually true. Most med students in the 4th year do what's called "away" rotations or externships for letters from the big names in a particular field. The OP could always rotate at a school that you feel is more prestigious.
I think we have addressed this already.
I'm not trying to pick a fight either. I just want to encourage you to think a little before you go posting something like you did originally concerning something you actually know very little about.
Also I didnt consider you comparing UTSW and UTMB an insult, I considered it uneducated that you said that UTSW has no reputation nationally.[/QUOTE]
I actually never said UTSW did not have a great national reputation. In fact, the only comment I made concerning reputation was I thought UTSW had a better regional reputation. I said it was not a top school (meaning top 3-5 in my mind). I actually think UTSW is a great school (thank God, because I do consider myself "anyone who knows anything about the medical field"). Is the difference between UTSW and UTMB so great that the OP should choose UTSW? Not in my opinion. This is all I wanted express.
Please refer above. It seems you are more guilty of this than me.
Again, please refer above. You assume too much.
I'm not sure I understand you here. Are you saying that greater than 50% of a med school class stays at that institution for residency? This is not true of any school that I am aware of. Please share with us how you came to this conclusion.
This is actually true. Most med students in the 4th year do what's called "away" rotations or externships for letters from the big names in a particular field. The OP could always rotate at a school that you feel is more prestigious.
I think we have addressed this already.
I'm not trying to pick a fight either. I just want to encourage you to think a little before you go posting something like you did originally concerning something you actually know very little about.
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Sina, this is the best thing that has been said on this thread.
You have no idea how happiness can make such a big difference in your education. You'll just have to trust me on this one.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. I AM A GUY. LOOK AT MY SIGNATURE. that being said, gleevec, i appreciate all the time you've put into this thread but i'm gonna have to go fah-q on this one, solely for the fact that he/she is a med student and we are just lowly premeds.
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LOL Sina....this thread is funny in a weird way !! 😀
I think you should come to UTMB !! 😉 Simply because I am being selfish and would like to see more familiar and friendly faces at UTMB as a clueless and perplexed MSI !! Hopefully, your gf will go to baylor (of course if she prefers) and that will only be an hour or two away !!
But regardless, even if you want to go to SW I read somewhere on an SDN thread that there is a lot of movement for SW....i am not sure if that is correct or not......someone can perhaps verify this!?? And I am sure you have a good chance too. Best of luck.
BTW, i love your signature.....good stuff !😀
I think you should come to UTMB !! 😉 Simply because I am being selfish and would like to see more familiar and friendly faces at UTMB as a clueless and perplexed MSI !! Hopefully, your gf will go to baylor (of course if she prefers) and that will only be an hour or two away !!
But regardless, even if you want to go to SW I read somewhere on an SDN thread that there is a lot of movement for SW....i am not sure if that is correct or not......someone can perhaps verify this!?? And I am sure you have a good chance too. Best of luck.
BTW, i love your signature.....good stuff !😀
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It's an immutable law of the universe.
Actually, Sina has said a couple of times that he thought that he would be really happy at UTMB, but that he ranked UTSW above it because of its reputation.
So it's all relative, baby.
I don't think the reputation argument works for schools in Texas. They're all really good. If you think that school reputation in Texas significantly affects your future career as a physician, research the CV's of physicians at TMC in Houston. There are tons of physicians in a wide variety of specialties (including the highly competitive ones) who graduated from Texas med schools other than UTSW or Baylor. The TMC is a high-powered academic medical center--one of the best in the world. If reputation mattered, you wouldn't see so many physicians with degrees from "lesser" institutions like UTMB working there. I just don't think that the reputation argument works for Texas medical schools. Elsewhere? Possibly. But not Texas.
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Check out scutwork.com and see what residents have to say about the programs they're in. Just read through random specialties to get an idea of how the environment and teach is like and let that be the guide to how your med school life will be like too.
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Oh I forgot to mention my point: CV's and reputation doesn't mean crap if for all the wisdom and knowledge in the world, none of it gets to you. Just because you got to school with a bunch of Nobel prize winners doesn't mean you have just won the Nobel prize.
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I am a first year at UTMB and I have to say that I'm really happy I ended up here. I think I would have been miserable in any other place that fostered a very competitive environment...although I cannot attest to the validity of which schools are. As it is I am working my butt off, and yes there are a few gunners here (although they're the nice kind), as there will be everwhere. It depends on the person. If you want to spend every waking hour studying to get AOA then you go for it. I did that in the beginning and I was miserable. I had never gotten a stress headache until I came here. I'll stick to my salsa dancing, grappling, and surfing....at least till 2nd year starts. It just aint worth it, but we all have to figure out what we want and what will make us happy. Is it true that Southwestern is switching its curriculum to a similar PBL approach, starting next year? I heard this from a friend who knew people going there.
I would seriously doubt that SW is changing its curriculum because they wouldve mentioned something during interviews. they went through the curriculum and even if they were to change, i would hate to be the guinea pig of a new curriculum. i think the utmb students back in 98 can explain how much that sucked.
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Well, I haven't posted on this site in about a year, but when you have a test in 12 hours, you find new and creative ways to procrastinate. I'm an MS1 at SW, and I just wanted to say something good about my school other than whether or not it has a "national" reputation.
First off, so far I like it here. There are gunners, granted, but there are also a bunch of really nice people here. Much of the reason I picked here in the first place was because I liked the bunch of people I interviewed with and wouldn't have minded having them in my class.
I like the fact that I'm in a city-- I panic when I find myself in an area where population is below a million, but I suppose that's a personal preference.
There are a lot of theoretical opportunties out there-- doing research in some really outstanding labs, shadowing top clinical experts, but so far I have been too busy cramming minutia to be able to take advantage of that. I suppose you can have those sorts of opportunities in any academic medical center though, so I really don't know that that could be a deciding factor.
Also, finally, I really enjoy taking morning naps during lectures given by a host of various outstanding researchers who are considered top in their fields. I find as soothing and sleep-inducing as herbal tea and a ocean-sounds tape at bed time.
But anyway, I think SW has a lot to offer, and so far I am enjoying my time here.
So there. I procrastinated. Now there are gray and white matter tracts of spinal cord to be memorized.
First off, so far I like it here. There are gunners, granted, but there are also a bunch of really nice people here. Much of the reason I picked here in the first place was because I liked the bunch of people I interviewed with and wouldn't have minded having them in my class.
I like the fact that I'm in a city-- I panic when I find myself in an area where population is below a million, but I suppose that's a personal preference.
There are a lot of theoretical opportunties out there-- doing research in some really outstanding labs, shadowing top clinical experts, but so far I have been too busy cramming minutia to be able to take advantage of that. I suppose you can have those sorts of opportunities in any academic medical center though, so I really don't know that that could be a deciding factor.
Also, finally, I really enjoy taking morning naps during lectures given by a host of various outstanding researchers who are considered top in their fields. I find as soothing and sleep-inducing as herbal tea and a ocean-sounds tape at bed time.
But anyway, I think SW has a lot to offer, and so far I am enjoying my time here.
So there. I procrastinated. Now there are gray and white matter tracts of spinal cord to be memorized.
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I am a med student at a school that would be considered to be in the stereotypical "top tier". If Gleevec's advice is being set aside for Fah-Q's on the basis that he is a "mere premed", then here I ask that you take mine into consideration.
Southwestern has a powerful national reputation. Going to SW does confer upon you a higher "position" as a residency applicant. SW has the faculty and resources to help students so interested claim "top" residency spots. UTMB does not match students into "top" residencies. The number of students matching in neurosurgery in the last 4 years from UTMB is less than the number of SW students who match from SW on an avg. year. Is this an isolated example? Possibly, but it still begs the point that SW does provide one with "better" residency oppurtunities. Look at UTMBs match list, most likely, you will stay in TX. Does that mean that your residency will not be good? Not in the least bit so.
But still....
Fah-Q has the tone of a student spurned from "highly ranked" med schools. He sounds extremely defensive of his position as evidenced by one of his last responses where he broke down the premed's post into small segments and harshly and specifically responded to each. My money says Fah-Q is at a school that the biased polls we're accustomed to (USNews) would rank below, if not significantly so, SW. On this note, his advice should be taken with a grain of salt.
Sina, it sounds like you want to go to UTMB. If you are a highly competitive student, who is seeking a highly competitive residency, this may not be the wisest decision for you. However, a top student at any school can, in theory, go wherever they want for residency (as you pointed out w/ UT undergrads), its just a little harder. If you were such a student though, you probably would've gotten into SW, Baylor, and a handful of out of state schools.
If you don't want to be a neurosurgeon who trained under Pete Black (Brigham) or Joe Piepmeier (Yale), if you don't care to be an ortho student working on the cutting edge of ortho-onc treatments, then fine. One can make the case that these people aren't doctors in the purest sense, they're more physician-scientists than physician-healers anyways. If the latter is the type of doc you want to be, go to UTMB. In the end, the kids seeing you if you're a ped. or family physician won't care about your choosing UTMB over SW, believe me.
Finally, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're Iranian. I understand how that type of background can put pressure on you to follow the more prestigous route. However, forget about giving your mom and aunts bragging rights over their friends whose children are in grad school (bio grad school is like a curse in the iranian homes I know "What, you couldn't go to med school?"). Do whats best for you. And clean up your signature, putting "penis" in there is a little unsightly. And that's coming from a med student, which apparently makes all the difference.
Southwestern has a powerful national reputation. Going to SW does confer upon you a higher "position" as a residency applicant. SW has the faculty and resources to help students so interested claim "top" residency spots. UTMB does not match students into "top" residencies. The number of students matching in neurosurgery in the last 4 years from UTMB is less than the number of SW students who match from SW on an avg. year. Is this an isolated example? Possibly, but it still begs the point that SW does provide one with "better" residency oppurtunities. Look at UTMBs match list, most likely, you will stay in TX. Does that mean that your residency will not be good? Not in the least bit so.
But still....
Fah-Q has the tone of a student spurned from "highly ranked" med schools. He sounds extremely defensive of his position as evidenced by one of his last responses where he broke down the premed's post into small segments and harshly and specifically responded to each. My money says Fah-Q is at a school that the biased polls we're accustomed to (USNews) would rank below, if not significantly so, SW. On this note, his advice should be taken with a grain of salt.
Sina, it sounds like you want to go to UTMB. If you are a highly competitive student, who is seeking a highly competitive residency, this may not be the wisest decision for you. However, a top student at any school can, in theory, go wherever they want for residency (as you pointed out w/ UT undergrads), its just a little harder. If you were such a student though, you probably would've gotten into SW, Baylor, and a handful of out of state schools.
If you don't want to be a neurosurgeon who trained under Pete Black (Brigham) or Joe Piepmeier (Yale), if you don't care to be an ortho student working on the cutting edge of ortho-onc treatments, then fine. One can make the case that these people aren't doctors in the purest sense, they're more physician-scientists than physician-healers anyways. If the latter is the type of doc you want to be, go to UTMB. In the end, the kids seeing you if you're a ped. or family physician won't care about your choosing UTMB over SW, believe me.
Finally, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're Iranian. I understand how that type of background can put pressure on you to follow the more prestigous route. However, forget about giving your mom and aunts bragging rights over their friends whose children are in grad school (bio grad school is like a curse in the iranian homes I know "What, you couldn't go to med school?"). Do whats best for you. And clean up your signature, putting "penis" in there is a little unsightly. And that's coming from a med student, which apparently makes all the difference.
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I totally agree with the_equalizer. In general, going to good schools gives you career options, the respect and the wow factor from your peers, and the admiration from your family and friends. And these are all important things. But like along with what the_equalizer said, don't let it run your life. Be an adult and make best of the cards you've been dealt.
I can understand why you might feel short changed, especially if your friend and girlfriend are going to SW and Baylor. If the things that the_equalizer said resonate with you, choose SW if you get in. If you don't get into SW, oh well, you did the best you can, just try harder when you start med school. But there is no need for you to defend UTMB right now. UTMB is, what it is. You come to love and hate it once you get here, as I'm sure the SW people will SW. SW is great because if you want to do neurosurgery, you won't get rejected because of your school that's for sure. And if you want to do pedi, hey, you paid state tuition. This is the classical Ivy vs. state undergrad debate.
Maybe there'll be a point in time when you start measuring yourself by how many people's lives you've improved rather than who went to what school and collected how many trophies.
(BTW, Friday afternoon, on OB/Gyn, got off at 1pm, going for a run on the beach, poker night with the homies tonight. For all y'all still rounding at 9 pm, still in the OR, working tomorrow, getting your medical learn-on, getting blessed by the MDeities, workin' on that AOA, SEE YA wouldn't wanna be ya. Suckas.)
I can understand why you might feel short changed, especially if your friend and girlfriend are going to SW and Baylor. If the things that the_equalizer said resonate with you, choose SW if you get in. If you don't get into SW, oh well, you did the best you can, just try harder when you start med school. But there is no need for you to defend UTMB right now. UTMB is, what it is. You come to love and hate it once you get here, as I'm sure the SW people will SW. SW is great because if you want to do neurosurgery, you won't get rejected because of your school that's for sure. And if you want to do pedi, hey, you paid state tuition. This is the classical Ivy vs. state undergrad debate.
Maybe there'll be a point in time when you start measuring yourself by how many people's lives you've improved rather than who went to what school and collected how many trophies.
(BTW, Friday afternoon, on OB/Gyn, got off at 1pm, going for a run on the beach, poker night with the homies tonight. For all y'all still rounding at 9 pm, still in the OR, working tomorrow, getting your medical learn-on, getting blessed by the MDeities, workin' on that AOA, SEE YA wouldn't wanna be ya. Suckas.)
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The_Equalizer is a genius. I have been defeated and I will present some evidence to prove his superiority.
His knowledge is beyond us all...
Just a few non-top residencies from UTMB's 2003 match list
Rad Onc - Cleveland Clinic
Surgery - Baylor
ENT - Wash U, Hopkins, UIC
Medicine - Mayo, UTSW
He can name-drop with the best of them...
Not bad for guy with one semester of med school under his belt.
His maturity is unmatched...
Pure genius...
Hopefully the OP will be wise enough to seek the advice of knowledgeable sources...not pre-meds and MS1's.
His knowledge is beyond us all...
Just a few non-top residencies from UTMB's 2003 match list
Rad Onc - Cleveland Clinic
Surgery - Baylor
ENT - Wash U, Hopkins, UIC
Medicine - Mayo, UTSW
He can name-drop with the best of them...
Not bad for guy with one semester of med school under his belt.
His maturity is unmatched...
Pure genius...
Hopefully the OP will be wise enough to seek the advice of knowledgeable sources...not pre-meds and MS1's.
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Wow I didnt know this thread was still alive...
Anyway, sorry about the mistake Sina, I dont know why I assumed Sina was a female name-- my bad, didn't mean anything by it, was just careless and didnt pay attention to you sig enough, so sorry about that...
That said, I really think you shouldnt listen to ANY of us. Fah-Q obviously has some ego-maniacal agenda, just look at the arrogance in his posts. He could seriously care less about your well-being as trying to support his fragile ego and getting a boner from using age as the end-all-be-all of an argument. I do think he has some inferiority issues which might be biasing his "advice". And apparently since I'm an MS0, I'm unqualified to offer advice to MS0 by his idiotic standards...
Anyway, back to the real topic, which should be your post and non Fah-Q's arrogant ramblings...
I think you have two good choices Sina, and I dont think you can go wrong. If there is nothing else you get from my posts on this thread, understand this as what Ive been trying to say the whole time: You really aren't going to make a bad decision on this. While going to a more reputable school might help you out in certain instances, this marginal benefit isnt worth sacrificing your happiness. And of course you are going to have great students everywhere, medicine is a field full of intelligent people whether they be at Harvard or some unranked school-- that's simply the nature of the beast. That said, nothing is going to stop you from going anywhere you want to go, UTSW might give you a little help here and there, but UTMB will allow you to flourish as well.
So, go where you will be happy, because reputation doesnt mean squat if you regret going to class every single day.
Anyway, Sina, I think you know better than all of us what choice you want to make. Im not trying to tell you what to do, and hopefully the others arent as well. You have a lot of different viewpoints on this issue, which is hopefully helpful. I dont pretend to know all the factors that are in play for you, and thus I can only present one viewpoint, hopefully I just brought something to light that you can consider for yourself, because it seems as if you have a good grasp of what you are looking for in med school. So I wouldnt listen to anyone in this thread persay, but I would consider all the conflicting viewpoints in your own decision, which is in fact quite a good one, since I have a feeling there is no way you can make a bad choice between the two. Good luck.
Now, Im going to be annoyed if Fah-Q tries to misrepresent "go where you will be happy since that is the most important" 🙄
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I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion considering my first 2 posts were nothing but supportive. It only got nasty when you decided to tell me I had no idea what I was talking about.
Not age...experience.
You were offering advice on choosing a med school based on reputation and, specifically, how reputation relates to residency placement. Please tell us how you as a pre-med are qualified to give such advice. You will soon need to to let go of the pre-med know-it-all attitude...shut up...and listen to those with more knowledge and experience. Or, it will be a tough 4 years of med school for you.
We have agreed on this from the beginning. I'm not trying to hate on you. I just want you to realize that:
1. In this matter I do know what I am talking about.
2. Your knowledge of the subject is limited.
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I think we should leave Fah-Q alone, and I regret if my previous post was taken as an affront to him. It seems that he is quite sensitive to critisicm and is very defensive, probably stemming from insecurities due to the fact that he couldn't get into a school like SW. The way he responds is abnormal, he actually went and looked up my history, quoting things that I said in the past in an effort to discredit the opinion I was expressing. This is not healthy behavior, and for Fah-Q's mental fitness, it would probably be best for us not to provoke him any further.
Fah-Q, you're right about everything big guy. Undoubtedly, you are the most popular (albeit bitter) medical student in your school, on whatever beautiful/sunny island it may be on.
Fah-Q, you're right about everything big guy. Undoubtedly, you are the most popular (albeit bitter) medical student in your school, on whatever beautiful/sunny island it may be on.
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I turned down an interview at UTMB. Sometimes, as I sit here in cold, snowy Syracuse, I regret that. (Not really. I love my school, but sometimes some warmer weather would be nice.)
I was accepted at UTSW. Nice place. But the one thing that sticks out in my mind is a sign outside a motel not far from campus. It said: "$25--All night."
Naphtali
I was accepted at UTSW. Nice place. But the one thing that sticks out in my mind is a sign outside a motel not far from campus. It said: "$25--All night."
Naphtali
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initially, i had the same problem choosing between Southwestern and UTMB. But the choice came down to how i felt when i was at the schools. i put UTMB as my first choice in the rank, and i got in. i am really happy because UTMB is one of the strongest medical schools in the south. and although Southwestern has a "better" name, galveston is pulling a lot of attention and money into their program.
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Sina, what happened dude? Couldn't into Baylor? Nah, just kidding. My 2 cents: You can be happy anywhere, it's all about your attitude. What do you really know about a place from spending a day there to interview anyway?
BUT, let's put this debate to rest and tell us where you got in. Match day has already passed. I'm very curious to see which direction all this advice has steered you.
BUT, let's put this debate to rest and tell us where you got in. Match day has already passed. I'm very curious to see which direction all this advice has steered you.
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