• AMA with Certified Student Loan Professional

    Join SDN on December 7th at 6:00 PM Eastern as we host Andrew Paulson of StudentLoanAdvice.com for an AMA webinar. He'll be answering your questions about how to best manage your student loans. Register now!

Would you still have gone the DO route?

PeachyOrange

Full Member
Jul 22, 2013
44
1
Sunny FL
    To all current medical students and practicing Osteopaths: If you had known that Osteopaths and Allopaths would never be recognized as equal physicians and all possibilities of a unified accredited system is non existent in the future, would you still select becoming an osteopath? Provided this was still your only shot at becoming a physician.
    Do you really think that a failed residency merger will give you second thoughts on entering this field?
     

    costales

    Full Member
    Jul 25, 2011
    2,183
    2,959
    1. Resident [Any Field]
      To all current medical students and practicing Osteopaths: If you had known that Osteopaths and Allopaths would never be recognized as equal physicians and all possibilities of a unified accredited system is non existent in the future, would you still select becoming an osteopath? Provided this was still your only shot at becoming a physician.
      Do you really think that a failed residency merger will give you second thoughts on entering this field?

      Are you intentionally dense or just plain ignorant?
       
      • Like
      Reactions: 1 user

      Trogghunter

      Full Member
      10+ Year Member
      Nov 16, 2009
      852
      284
      1. Attending Physician
        I can palpate the borders of the liver in a fat patient, relieve my friends' hangovers with omt, put in art lines blind as a med student with no previous experience, and make patients **** themselves with a mesenteric release. No, I have no regrets. If you don't learn to use your hands, your loss.
         
        • Like
        Reactions: 1 user
        About the Ads

        PeachyOrange

        Full Member
        Jul 22, 2013
        44
        1
        Sunny FL
          Are you intentionally dense or just plain ignorant?
          Majority of the general population that don't know what osteopathy is. I frequently get asked why I'm in an osteopathic school and not in a medical school since I want to be a doctor. Reality check, the world we live in is not perfect, and there's still ignorant people out there. If you get treated as an equal to an MD, then good for you. I don't appreciate your comments if you aren't going to answer to the thread question.
           

          FutureDO2016

          Full Member
          Mar 22, 2013
          531
          86
          1. Medical Student
            I would rather be a DO then go to the Caribbean and we can still apply to ACGME residencies. It's just the process won't unify into 1 single match day but remain separate as it is today. Although, I'm disappointed and don't love OMT, this route still leads me to accomplish my dream.
             
            Last edited:

            HoboCommander

            Full Member
            10+ Year Member
            7+ Year Member
            Sep 30, 2007
            880
            131
            1. Resident [Any Field]
              The only real drawback is a mild discrimination against DOs in the ACGME match. If I get the surgical specialty I want, then no regrets going DO, if I don't, then yes I'll regret it.
               

              PeachyOrange

              Full Member
              Jul 22, 2013
              44
              1
              Sunny FL
                I can palpate the borders of the liver in a fat patient, relieve my friends' hangovers with omt, put in art lines blind as a med student with no previous experience, and make patients **** themselves with a mesenteric release. No, I have no regrets. If you don't learn to use your hands, your loss.

                Just out of curiosity Trogghunter, how do you relieve hangovers with OMT? please do enlighten us
                 

                MrBeauregard

                Soon-to-be PGY-1
                10+ Year Member
                Mar 10, 2009
                619
                45
                1. Medical Student
                  I can palpate the borders of the liver in a fat patient, relieve my friends' hangovers with omt, put in art lines blind as a med student with no previous experience, and make patients **** themselves with a mesenteric release. No, I have no regrets. If you don't learn to use your hands, your loss.

                  Hangovers are cured with fluids and time. Which treatment do you use for that?
                   
                  Last edited:

                  Trogghunter

                  Full Member
                  10+ Year Member
                  Nov 16, 2009
                  852
                  284
                  1. Attending Physician
                    Myofascial--->CV4--->suboccupital release +/- vault and as much sinus drainage and suture as you are comfortable with doing, is what I do for a hangover. No bs, the MD and DO residents ask for it pretty often, especially after journal club, and they are noticeably more comfortable.

                    You can do some stuff to yourself--> get pressure into the suboccipital area, drain your sinuses, etc. Along with fluids and maybe an ibuprofen, it does well.

                    ***I am ~ok at omt, don't really like doing it unless its needed, definitely don't do it for the sake of doing it. I kind of shift things around and respond vs having a formal technique, but I 'developed' my approach through a couple years and I've been doing post-hangover massage since undergrad.
                     
                    • Like
                    Reactions: 1 user

                    Cranial ALLDAY

                    Full Member
                    Apr 4, 2013
                    41
                    0
                    1. Medical Student
                      Are osteopathic techniques a gigantic waste of time and completely worthless? Of course...but going to a school where we learn the absolute minimum, at the end of the day we get to become doctors. You endure silly willy wonka anecdotes for 2 hours a week for 2 years, then never again, I'll take it.
                       

                      Dharma

                      Full Member
                      10+ Year Member
                      Aug 12, 2010
                      2,800
                      1,124
                      The Path of the Righteous, man.
                      1. Attending Physician
                        Are osteopathic techniques a gigantic waste of time and completely worthless? Of course...but going to a school where we learn the absolute minimum, at the end of the day we get to become doctors. You endure silly willy wonka anecdotes for 2 hours a week for 2 years, then never again, I'll take it.

                        "Completely worthless?" That's pushing it. Completely worthless in the hands of someone lacking skill? Yes. Do you really not find any value in post-isometric relaxation techniques? I've seen some improvement in classmate runners with psoas issues (and visible so just when observing foot angle when supine).

                        OP your post is LOADED with inaccuracies, ranging from terminology to the assessment of the current political situation. I doubt many will take what you have written seriously.

                        All of that said, I'm glad I went D.O. And while I don't fall into that hardcore "OMM heals all" group, I find some of the techniques to not only be effective but can also be done in limited time without much difficulty.
                         

                        pipe dream

                        Full Member
                        May 17, 2012
                        80
                        0
                          Majority of the general population that don't know what osteopathy is

                          Probably because there's no such thing as osteopathy anymore. There's also no such thing as osteopaths. It's osteopathic medicine and osteopathic physicians. You can't expect to educate anyone when you don't have the education necessary. Learn the terminology before you expand the knowledge of others.
                           

                          NurWollen

                          Strong with the Force
                          10+ Year Member
                          Dec 27, 2007
                          3,417
                          2,531
                          United States
                          1. Fellow [Any Field]
                            To all current medical students and practicing Osteopaths: If you had known that Osteopaths and Allopaths would never be recognized as equal physicians and all possibilities of a unified accredited system is non existent in the future, would you still select becoming an osteopath? Provided this was still your only shot at becoming a physician.
                            Do you really think that a failed residency merger will give you second thoughts on entering this field?

                            Psychic troll
                             
                            About the Ads

                            Doctor Bob

                            Fellowship aPD
                            10+ Year Member
                            Air Force
                            Feb 12, 2009
                            1,948
                            2,523
                            Orlando
                            1. Attending Physician
                              Well hangon a moment...
                              Troll or no troll, this is a question that gets asked every year... usually seriously, sometimes not. But it is, as always, a legitimate question.

                              Basically lots of premeds go to MD or DO school because they want to be a doctor. Those who go to DO schools have an easier time getting in but a harder road ahead of them after med school. Those who go to MD schools have a harder time getting in but an easier road after med school. The vast majority of med school applicants don't look at the long picture when applying; they don't consider the hurdles down the road.

                              So the OP is asking "now that you're in med school and see the hurdles more clearly, if you had known about them and their long term ramifications plus all of the political machinations, would you still have chosen to go to a DO school?"

                              Perhaps his/her phrasing was a little bit inflammatory but look past that.

                              So to answer that question...

                              My situation may not be completely applicable to everyone, but yes I would still go the same route. I'm an EM doctor so I have no advertising to do (people don't get to choose which doc they see in the ED so the less marketable "DO" title doesn't matter). I'm in the military so my military internship automatically qualified as an approved internship (if ever down the road I want to practice in a state with DO internship restrictions, though hopefully those will soon all be gone). Also in the military there is no disparity between DOs and MDs as the DO population is so much greater here. I did a lot of research, was chief resident, got elected to Alpha Omega Alpha as a resident (yes, it's possible even for DOs), and more. So now my CV puts me in good standing when I apply for new jobs and the DO vs MD degree is no longer a factor because there is so much post-med school padding to far outweigh it.

                              What you do after med school has a great effect on the long term MD vs DO impact on your career. The time when your degree will affect you the most is when you're going through residency match; after that it's easy to offset.
                               

                              TheSeanieB

                              Full Member
                              Dec 17, 2010
                              263
                              1
                              1. Medical Student
                                In my first year, I would have loved to transfer to a MD school. I did not see that value in OMT. In my second year, I saw and experienced the value of OMT personally. Students who pursue and become masters of the musculoskeletal system can treat patients with a much broader skill set. Today you could not pay me to become a MD. DO=MD+Chriropracter+Physical Therapist for the curious and ambicious students. For all others DO=MD.

                                BTW Bob, the earnings of DOs that incorporate OMT into their primary care practice make around $30,000/year more than MDs. If they refine their skills, it can be much more.
                                 

                                Doctor Bob

                                Fellowship aPD
                                10+ Year Member
                                Air Force
                                Feb 12, 2009
                                1,948
                                2,523
                                Orlando
                                1. Attending Physician
                                  BTW Bob, the earnings of DOs that incorporate OMT into their primary care practice make around $30,000/year more than MDs. If they refine their skills, it can be much more.

                                  The billing of OMT is a potentially lucrative income stream; I've seen many a PCP who has augmented their practice with OMT. In my line of work in the ED (and for PCPs in the military) it's not feasible. But you're correct that if you can find a way to incorporate it, OMT can pay off.
                                   

                                  cliquesh

                                  Full Member
                                  10+ Year Member
                                  Nov 2, 2007
                                  3,080
                                  1,123
                                  1. Resident [Any Field]
                                    To all current medical students and practicing Osteopaths: If you had known that Osteopaths and Allopaths would never be recognized as equal physicians and all possibilities of a unified accredited system is non existent in the future, would you still select becoming an osteopath? Provided this was still your only shot at becoming a physician.
                                    Do you really think that a failed residency merger will give you second thoughts on entering this field?

                                    I only applied to DO schools. If I did it again I would have applied to some MD schools. If I didn't get in, then I would go to a DO school again in a heartbeat.

                                    I don't think the failed merger will have any significant long term consequences.
                                     

                                    PeachyOrange

                                    Full Member
                                    Jul 22, 2013
                                    44
                                    1
                                    Sunny FL
                                      Thank you for an insightful answer DrBob :)

                                      Myofascial--->CV4--->suboccupital release +/- vault and as much sinus drainage and suture as you are comfortable with doing, is what I do for a hangover. No bs, the MD and DO residents ask for it pretty often, especially after journal club, and they are noticeably more comfortable.

                                      You can do some stuff to yourself--> get pressure into the suboccipital area, drain your sinuses, etc. Along with fluids and maybe an ibuprofen, it does well.

                                      ***I am ~ok at omt, don't really like doing it unless its needed, definitely don't do it for the sake of doing it. I kind of shift things around and respond vs having a formal technique, but I 'developed' my approach through a couple years and I've been doing post-hangover massage since undergrad.

                                      Gotto try this technique
                                       

                                      docnotsopc

                                      Full Member
                                      5+ Year Member
                                      Jan 4, 2012
                                      462
                                      27
                                      1. Medical Student
                                        No, I would not. Although I hate OMM, I still believe it is useful once and a while for say sports injuries.

                                        What I hate most about going DO is the nut jobs who are so pro-DO that they begin to ignore real bias against DOs and truly believe DOs are this superior gift from god. They truly believe DOs are superior to MDs and that MDs only prescribe pills. In DO curriculums we are taught that MDs arent holistic. Pre-meds continue to tell other pre-meds false things on SDN which creates that false idea for those accepted and starting med school in a DO program. They have painted this fantasy world for themselves and try to pass it off onto others. Unfortunately these people are usually the ones who get involved with the AOA and "represent us". This leads to a complete misrepresentation of the average DO in the medical community (including allopathic). The DOs with these kinds of opinions about DOs and OMM make us look like fools to MDs. I personally believe this is one of the key factors in why there is even bias to begin with. I have had friends at MD schools tell me that DOs on their rotations have gone ahead with cranial in completely inappropriate situations. If I was at an MD school, this alone would leave me to believe that DOs are witch doctors even though its not true.

                                        Anyway, the DOs that fit into the category of lunatics (although the minority) is why I would not choose DO again among a few other reasons including poor clinical training and double the board exams to go ACGME.
                                         
                                        • Like
                                        Reactions: 1 user

                                        J-Rad

                                        Full Member
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        Verified Expert
                                        15+ Year Member
                                        Apr 12, 2003
                                        3,333
                                        21
                                        With my Children Of The Corn
                                        1. Attending Physician
                                          I'm in the military so my military internship automatically qualified as an approved internship (if ever down the road I want to practice in a state with DO internship restrictions, though hopefully those will soon all be gone).

                                          I realize this is tangential and you were likely abbreviating the topic, but, since there are a fair number of military DOs and HPSP students in the pipeline it is worth saying that this is not strictly true as stated. A military internship is still ACGME and requires Resolution 42 approval. It is done with paperwork specific to military DOs. Historically, the Res 42s have been easily approved, but they are not granted without exception. In my own case I thought I was approved and later got a letter stating that there was a holdup due to the length of time I was in internship (lost time d/t Katrina which was made up in the totality of my residency, but not in my intern year. I was promoted to second year on time). I should have jumped on that quicker. Frankly I haven't paid my dues for a while and keep going back and forth on whether I will again in the future.
                                           
                                          About the Ads

                                          Doctor Bob

                                          Fellowship aPD
                                          10+ Year Member
                                          Air Force
                                          Feb 12, 2009
                                          1,948
                                          2,523
                                          Orlando
                                          1. Attending Physician
                                            I realize this is tangential and you were likely abbreviating the topic, but, since there are a fair number of military DOs and HPSP students in the pipeline it is worth saying that this is not strictly true as stated. A military internship is still ACGME and requires Resolution 42 approval. It is done with paperwork specific to military DOs. Historically, the Res 42s have been easily approved, but they are not granted without exception. In my own case I thought I was approved and later got a letter stating that there was a holdup due to the length of time I was in internship (lost time d/t Katrina which was made up in the totality of my residency, but not in my intern year. I was promoted to second year on time). I should have jumped on that quicker. Frankly I haven't paid my dues for a while and keep going back and forth on whether I will again in the future.

                                            You're correct... my use of "automatically" is an oversimplification. I don't remember exactly what I had to do, but it was fairly easy though... there was a form I mailed in and my program filled out a form, and that was it. A few months later the AOA sent me an approval letter.
                                             

                                            HooliganSnail

                                            Full Member
                                            7+ Year Member
                                            Mar 13, 2012
                                            636
                                            658
                                            1. Attending Physician
                                              There is nothing worse than a DO who really wanted to be an MD.

                                              Easy question to answer. Hell yeah I would do DO again ( although I am glad that it is almost over because medical school kinda sucks).

                                              Holla!
                                               
                                              About the Ads

                                              Silent Cool

                                              Member
                                              Removed
                                              10+ Year Member
                                              Jan 30, 2005
                                              2,752
                                              654
                                                To all current medical students and practicing Osteopaths: If you had known that Osteopaths and Allopaths would never be recognized as equal physicians and all possibilities of a unified accredited system is non existent in the future, would you still select becoming an osteopath? Provided this was still your only shot at becoming a physician.
                                                Do you really think that a failed residency merger will give you second thoughts on entering this field?


                                                No.
                                                 

                                                21p

                                                Full Member
                                                5+ Year Member
                                                Feb 21, 2010
                                                54
                                                10
                                                1. Medical Student
                                                  Initial question: Yes. I keep an open mind when thinking about the DO/MD argument, because soon it will be a four-way battle for many DO/MD/CNP/PAs.*

                                                  AOA and OPP: I'm an M2, so weigh what I say against the naivety inherent in my post. I think most of the OMT I've learned can be summed up by this:
                                                  1. Hand skills are good and OPP will give you a temporary edge on most MDs when it comes to patient contact and manual dexterity.
                                                  2. Stretching is good. Poor posture is bad.
                                                  3. DOs can spot drug seeking behavior with a simple set of physical skills many MDs never learn.

                                                  and most importantly...

                                                  4. Never question an OPP professor on the scientific research behind a weird technique unless you do it in his/her office.


                                                  Independent and widely validated research is the solution to the debate. You can't teach most rational people the science behind medicine and expect them to believe jibberish. Get rid of the crap and most of the hucksters will find another vocation. I hope this will happen as the economics of healthcare change and vetting becomes a priority when dealing with fringe therapies. Insurance may decrease our wages, but at least it'll be good for our education.

                                                  Anecdote: Me and the girly visited the ruins of a pseudo-scientific cult (The Koreshan Unity) started by an MD in Chicago this weekend, and I won't lie: AT Still and the OMT Jim Joneser's came up in discussion more than once. I've connected the dots while reading this thread and realized what separated AT from some of the practioners today is the body of scientific knowledge available to him, which he would have eaten up and probably done great things with. We need to revise that knowledge, imo. To bastardize Gandhi: "I like your AT Still, but I do not like your OPP nut-jobs."

                                                  *-Rant:
                                                  Markets correct themselves quickly when demand outstrips supply.I think hard work will become a requirement for this job in the next five years, regardless of the letters behind your name and the chosen specialty. While people will whine on about a cushy job/residency stripped of them, I'll be glad I was born with a hyperactive right brain and steady backbone. I didn't get into medical school to make money or have people call me daddy... and yeah, patients can make you feel great, but I digitally removed enough morphine turds in the ED as a CNA to learn appreciation is not a guaranteed perk in this job.

                                                  I did it because I love solving problems under stress and being able to rewind the tape and critique myself over and over again in order to perfect some weird mix of art and science that will never be fully understood by 'itself.'

                                                  You have to be slightly masochistic to play this game and love it. I can already see that, and the referee just fired the starting gun. So... what was that about DO/MD preference?:laugh:

                                                  It'll be interesting to read this in two years and see how my opinion has changed. Thank gawd for the interwebz.
                                                   

                                                  st2205

                                                  Attending
                                                  15+ Year Member
                                                  Oct 29, 2006
                                                  1,840
                                                  1,153
                                                  1. Attending Physician
                                                    To the OP: sure. With the advantage of hindsight I would absolutely choose my school again ten times out of ten as there were some pretty significant ways that it had some really good opportunities for our family (independent of education/career) that I couldn't put a price on. I originally wanted to attend another (DO) school but we ended up deciding on another one, which I can only say in hindsight was absolutely the right choice. The only place I think I'd have a hard time choosing between, if I could do it again, is if I had gotten into any Texas school (not from there) because of how much cheaper it would have been.

                                                    My residency selection also boiled down to a lot of non-career factors as I ranked the somewhat obscure place I matched at significantly higher than other much bigger name places that to anyone else would have been "no-brainers." In the end, there's a hell of a lot more in life than what other people think of you, but that's tough to convince a large population of people that see the ultimate goal as being on top.

                                                    Could being a DO potentially make things harder for your path in diverse ways? Sure. Does it do so frequently and in very significantly meaningful ways? Very rarely, and even then, my opinion is that it has more to do with the person than the path, but of course it's always easier, whether it's someone else or especially of it's you, to blame the path.
                                                     

                                                    cbtk18

                                                    Full Member
                                                    15+ Year Member
                                                    Mar 23, 2006
                                                    504
                                                    44
                                                    1. Medical Student
                                                      To all current medical students and practicing Osteopaths: If you had known that Osteopaths and Allopaths would never be recognized as equal physicians and all possibilities of a unified accredited system is non existent in the future, would you still select becoming an osteopath? Provided this was still your only shot at becoming a physician.
                                                      Do you really think that a failed residency merger will give you second thoughts on entering this field?

                                                      No
                                                       

                                                      BioBeaver

                                                      Rah Virginia Mil.
                                                      May 21, 2013
                                                      402
                                                      40
                                                      IN -> VA
                                                      1. Pre-Medical
                                                        Just speaking as a Pre-med here, I think I would prefer going to a DO over an MD. I like that DO's have more open minds towards alternative treatments compared to MDs. I doubt a DO would prescribe me a bag of Vicodin for a jammed pinky finger (like an MD did a year ago).
                                                         

                                                        Drrrrrr. Celty

                                                        Osteo Dullahan
                                                        10+ Year Member
                                                      • Nov 10, 2009
                                                        16,165
                                                        5,853
                                                        1. Resident [Any Field]
                                                          Just speaking as a Pre-med here, I think I would prefer going to a DO over an MD. I like that DO's have more open minds towards alternative treatments compared to MDs. I doubt a DO would prescribe me a bag of Vicodin for a jammed pinky finger (like an MD did a year ago).

                                                          Except most DOs practice medicine, not alternative medicine. Also you never know what your doctor's day has been like that day, for all you know he just had 10 intense drug seekers come into his clinic and he's so tired of trying to convince them to not be drug addicts that he finally caved in when you came in and was like w.e.
                                                           

                                                          Deceptacon

                                                          Full Member
                                                          10+ Year Member
                                                          Feb 17, 2009
                                                          186
                                                          2
                                                          1. Resident [Any Field]
                                                            Initial question: Yes. I keep an open mind when thinking about the DO/MD argument, because soon it will be a four-way battle for many DO/MD/CNP/PAs.*

                                                            AOA and OPP: I'm an M2, so weigh what I say against the naivety inherent in my post. I think most of the OMT I've learned can be summed up by this:
                                                            1. Hand skills are good and OPP will give you a temporary edge on most MDs when it comes to patient contact and manual dexterity.
                                                            2. Stretching is good. Poor posture is bad.
                                                            3. DOs can spot drug seeking behavior with a simple set of physical skills many MDs never learn.

                                                            and most importantly...

                                                            4. Never question an OPP professor on the scientific research behind a weird technique unless you do it in his/her office.


                                                            Independent and widely validated research is the solution to the debate. You can't teach most rational people the science behind medicine and expect them to believe jibberish. Get rid of the crap and most of the hucksters will find another vocation. I hope this will happen as the economics of healthcare change and vetting becomes a priority when dealing with fringe therapies. Insurance may decrease our wages, but at least it'll be good for our education.

                                                            Anecdote: Me and the girly visited the ruins of a pseudo-scientific cult (The Koreshan Unity) started by an MD in Chicago this weekend, and I won't lie: AT Still and the OMT Jim Joneser's came up in discussion more than once. I've connected the dots while reading this thread and realized what separated AT from some of the practioners today is the body of scientific knowledge available to him, which he would have eaten up and probably done great things with. We need to revise that knowledge, imo. To bastardize Gandhi: "I like your AT Still, but I do not like your OPP nut-jobs."

                                                            *-Rant:
                                                            Markets correct themselves quickly when demand outstrips supply.I think hard work will become a requirement for this job in the next five years, regardless of the letters behind your name and the chosen specialty. While people will whine on about a cushy job/residency stripped of them, I'll be glad I was born with a hyperactive right brain and steady backbone. I didn't get into medical school to make money or have people call me daddy... and yeah, patients can make you feel great, but I digitally removed enough morphine turds in the ED as a CNA to learn appreciation is not a guaranteed perk in this job.

                                                            I did it because I love solving problems under stress and being able to rewind the tape and critique myself over and over again in order to perfect some weird mix of art and science that will never be fully understood by 'itself.'

                                                            You have to be slightly masochistic to play this game and love it. I can already see that, and the referee just fired the starting gun. So... what was that about DO/MD preference?:laugh:

                                                            It'll be interesting to read this in two years and see how my opinion has changed. Thank gawd for the interwebz.

                                                            contrary to what opp professors would have you believe, you are not going to have any advantage over md students because of your omm skills. in fact, i've only ever seen the opposite when it comes to omm. some wanna-be omm tryhard ends up trying to push some bs diagnosis on a patient when imaging and lab reports show a very different diagnosis.
                                                             

                                                            dozitgetchahi

                                                            Full Member
                                                            10+ Year Member
                                                            Oct 21, 2008
                                                            1,584
                                                            631
                                                            1. Attending Physician
                                                              Initial question: Yes. I keep an open mind when thinking about the DO/MD argument, because soon it will be a four-way battle for many DO/MD/CNP/PAs.*

                                                              AOA and OPP: I'm an M2, so weigh what I say against the naivety inherent in my post. I think most of the OMT I've learned can be summed up by this:
                                                              1. Hand skills are good and OPP will give you a temporary edge on most MDs when it comes to patient contact and manual dexterity.
                                                              2. Stretching is good. Poor posture is bad.
                                                              3. DOs can spot drug seeking behavior with a simple set of physical skills many MDs never learn.

                                                              and most importantly...

                                                              4. Never question an OPP professor on the scientific research behind a weird technique unless you do it in his/her office.


                                                              Independent and widely validated research is the solution to the debate. You can't teach most rational people the science behind medicine and expect them to believe jibberish. Get rid of the crap and most of the hucksters will find another vocation. I hope this will happen as the economics of healthcare change and vetting becomes a priority when dealing with fringe therapies. Insurance may decrease our wages, but at least it'll be good for our education.

                                                              Anecdote: Me and the girly visited the ruins of a pseudo-scientific cult (The Koreshan Unity) started by an MD in Chicago this weekend, and I won't lie: AT Still and the OMT Jim Joneser's came up in discussion more than once. I've connected the dots while reading this thread and realized what separated AT from some of the practioners today is the body of scientific knowledge available to him, which he would have eaten up and probably done great things with. We need to revise that knowledge, imo. To bastardize Gandhi: "I like your AT Still, but I do not like your OPP nut-jobs."

                                                              *-Rant:
                                                              Markets correct themselves quickly when demand outstrips supply.I think hard work will become a requirement for this job in the next five years, regardless of the letters behind your name and the chosen specialty. While people will whine on about a cushy job/residency stripped of them, I'll be glad I was born with a hyperactive right brain and steady backbone. I didn't get into medical school to make money or have people call me daddy... and yeah, patients can make you feel great, but I digitally removed enough morphine turds in the ED as a CNA to learn appreciation is not a guaranteed perk in this job.

                                                              I did it because I love solving problems under stress and being able to rewind the tape and critique myself over and over again in order to perfect some weird mix of art and science that will never be fully understood by 'itself.'

                                                              You have to be slightly masochistic to play this game and love it. I can already see that, and the referee just fired the starting gun. So... what was that about DO/MD preference?:laugh:

                                                              It'll be interesting to read this in two years and see how my opinion has changed. Thank gawd for the interwebz.

                                                              ....what?
                                                               

                                                              dozitgetchahi

                                                              Full Member
                                                              10+ Year Member
                                                              Oct 21, 2008
                                                              1,584
                                                              631
                                                              1. Attending Physician
                                                                Except most DOs practice medicine, not alternative medicine. Also you never know what your doctor's day has been like that day, for all you know he just had 10 intense drug seekers come into his clinic and he's so tired of trying to convince them to not be drug addicts that he finally caved in when you came in and was like w.e.

                                                                The DO attendings I rotated with on FM as a 3rd year were some of the loosest physicians I've ever seen in terms of controlled substance prescriptions (and prescriptions in general, for that matter).
                                                                 

                                                                Gither

                                                                Full Member
                                                                10+ Year Member
                                                                Jan 5, 2009
                                                                99
                                                                21
                                                                  Just speaking as a Pre-med here, I think I would prefer going to a DO over an MD. I like that DO's have more open minds towards alternative treatments compared to MDs. I doubt a DO would prescribe me a bag of Vicodin for a jammed pinky finger (like an MD did a year ago).

                                                                  Im a 4th year DO and my DO doctor prescribed be 28 Vicodins for a sore throat and I took all 28. Guess we're both closed minded...
                                                                   

                                                                  nacholibre

                                                                  Full Member
                                                                  7+ Year Member
                                                                  Aug 13, 2009
                                                                  95
                                                                  0
                                                                  1. Medical Student
                                                                    As an MD student who has many DO students rotate at my institution (been with at least 1 DO on every rotation) I have really tried to keep bias out of the picture while trying to form my opinions. I've noticed the following things about DO students attitudes about the topic of this discussion.

                                                                    Of the DO students I've worked with:
                                                                    -The proportion of cool, nice, normal people to stupid, mean, lazy people is equal to MD
                                                                    -A majority applied to but, were not accepted to MD programs
                                                                    -About 50% have made mention of why school was more difficult for them because they had to learn everything allopaths learn plus a lot extra
                                                                    ->50% have found a way to comment on how they were interested to learn how MD students have to study so little compared to what they did at their school
                                                                    -They seem to be a bit more reserved and maybe a bit less gunnerish
                                                                    -I have never heard any of them suggest or even discuss osteopathic medicine techniques in the management of their patients even with DO attendings
                                                                    -Unprovoked discussions of why the COMLEX is harder than USMLE have occurred on several occasions
                                                                    -Almost all of them refer to their manipulation as something similar to voodoo, but equally many have "a couple techniques" that they think work
                                                                    -Very few have an attitude that DO is better than MD

                                                                    So basically I have developed the opinion that DO's are generally happy with their training, many would have chosen the allopathic pathway if they could, and most will practice medicine like osteopathic-flavored MDs regardless of their training. There is definitely a bit of a "little brother" or "something to prove" mentality that exists.
                                                                     

                                                                    21p

                                                                    Full Member
                                                                    5+ Year Member
                                                                    Feb 21, 2010
                                                                    54
                                                                    10
                                                                    1. Medical Student

                                                                      I explained why I wouldn't have changed my mind, what the average M2's perception of OPP is, and where the market is headed in the long run (imo) as our population boom catches up to us.


                                                                      Imo, the problem isn't a merger, it's the series of decisions we didn't make prior to this becoming a necessity for political consolidation. DOs/MDs didn't increase enrollment to suit demand and now some of us are gonna have our salaries adjusted without consent.

                                                                      Economic bottom line: it's already cheaper, shorter, and smarter to go to PA school/get a CNP if you want to practice family medicine. Argumentative bottom line/source of rant: I feel sorry for the money-grabbers because it looks like those folks are gonna have to work harder for a buck than they may have anticipated.


                                                                      One example:
                                                                      My girlfriend is seriously considering switching programs because she sees the futility of wasting her twenties behind a stack of books to practice rural medicine. With PA bridge programs popping up, she can go to PA/Nursing school for MUCH less money and go the bridge route if she wants more responsibility... plus.. it'll be mostly paid for b/c she took some time to work, her app will be highly competitive, and she'll probably crush the MCAT (so long ago).

                                                                      Costs less to pay a PA.. liability isn't as heavily regulated... if you were on the executive board of a hospital what would you be concerned about?

                                                                      Money.
                                                                       

                                                                      cheruka

                                                                      Full Member
                                                                      Sep 8, 2012
                                                                      288
                                                                      11
                                                                      1. Resident [Any Field]
                                                                        I went to the DO school in the state and now doing residency at the MD school (the other medical school) in the same state. In my state, the state funded MD school LOVES the DOs to come to their residencies, with the exception of the ultra-competitive ones.

                                                                        Looking back, I think I had better rotations than my MD counter parts, had more choice as to where I wanted to rotate and more one-on-one teaching and hands on training. I feel I got more out of the hours I spent in third and fourth years than them. The hard part was having had to set up my own rotations, pay more money for tuition and prepare for the bizzarre AOA-made comlex steps and PE. I still have to take Comlex 3 and I hear it is not that bad.

                                                                        As for OMM- most of it is every day bread and butter sports medicine, with a few exceptions, no regrets.

                                                                        Overall, no regrets. I am happy where I am.:thumbup:
                                                                         

                                                                        FutureDO2016

                                                                        Full Member
                                                                        Mar 22, 2013
                                                                        531
                                                                        86
                                                                        1. Medical Student
                                                                          I think most DO students would choose MD just to avoid taking 2 sets of boards and rotation nonsense. Also I don't like OMM but I didn't want to retake the MCAT again or go to Caribbean. Whatever a DO is a doc with OMM knowledge which could add few grand to his salary. I do like the DO philosophy though and that's what I say if someone asks me why DO.
                                                                           

                                                                          docnotsopc

                                                                          Full Member
                                                                          5+ Year Member
                                                                          Jan 4, 2012
                                                                          462
                                                                          27
                                                                          1. Medical Student
                                                                            Just speaking as a Pre-med here, I think I would prefer going to a DO over an MD. I like that DO's have more open minds towards alternative treatments compared to MDs. I doubt a DO would prescribe me a bag of Vicodin for a jammed pinky finger (like an MD did a year ago).

                                                                            Any of that koolaid left over? Most DOs arent open minded towards "alternative treatments" because they dont use OMM (if thats what you are referring too with alternative)
                                                                             
                                                                            About the Ads
                                                                            This thread is more than 8 years old.

                                                                            Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

                                                                            1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
                                                                            2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
                                                                            3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
                                                                            4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
                                                                            5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
                                                                            6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
                                                                            7. This thread is locked.