Wright Institute vs. CSPP San Francisco

[RunnyBabbit]

I would like to gather opinions from anyone who has attended, or has substantial information about, either The Wright Institute in Berkeley or CSPP San Francisco. Specifically the PsyD programs at each. Although I haven't been offered acceptance at either (yet?), I believe it will come down to these two schools for me, and I'm conflicted. I see pros and cons of each.

The cons I have for the Wright is that it's a bit too much of a hippie, social activist feeling for my taste, as well as a bit too psychodynamic in theoretical orientation. For CSPP, I'm concerned about: 1) the possible mixed reputation of the school (I've heard both good and bad things), and 2) because it's a bigger school, not getting the guidance and support for placements/internships.

I already know all the negatives about professional schools in general, and the ongoing debate of PsyD vs. PhD, so please don't go into all of that. Please, just information/opinions about the two schools. Thanks!

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[erg923]

I am in a Ph.D program in the bay area. To be perfectly honest, both schools have less than stellar reputations around here. CCSP more so than the Wright Institute though. This is based upon supervisors that I have had who have had their students at their practicums, not my personal experience. Sorry I cant be more helpful. If you get accepted to either, talk to the students who attend these programs to get the real scoop. Best of luck!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

IMHO, the Wright Institute probably has the better reputation, but it seems like a hit and miss place for folks in regard to fit. It does very little research (or so it seems), so just be aware of that. It seems to cater to older/more established students (many having MS and have been practicing), so keep that in mind too.

I personally would avoid CSPP and related schools in CA. I don't believe either place does particularly well for internships....but it is at least partly because people want to stay in California, so they take what they can get (APA, CPA, etc) or not.


If you are limiting yourself because of location, you may need to expand your search, because it is hard to be so limited *and* find a good fit.

 

[MaddieMay]

I interviewed at The Wright Institute and they told me outright that they are hardcore psychodynamic-oriented. I wanted a more well-rounded education so I decided not to attend.

I also found out from the website that you do practica starting in your first year. I was concerned about my ability to counsel with no experience and also to subject my clients to being my guinea pigs. For more experienced students, I guess this would not be a problem.

I got interviews at Wright, JFKU, and Argosy, but couldn't get an interview with CSPP, so for whatever reason I am not a good match for them. I do wish I knew why, it could be helpful.

Good luck to you! Interview everywhere you can and see what you think.

 

[ProspectivePsyD]

I am in pretty much the same situation - my choice comes down to CSPP or The Wright Institute. My research in the field regarding reputation is that Wright students are regarded highly (interestingly a different finding to one of the responses below). However my opinion of the institution is quite similar to yours ie way too psychodynamic for my interests. Like MaddieMay (below) i have interviewed at JFK which I liked (and I was impressed with the factulty that interviewed me) but I cannot find out a thing regarding their reputation. What was your impression MaddieMay; and RunnyRabbit why did you not consider applying there?

 

[ClinPsyD917]

I'm currently a first year in CSPP's PsyD program in SF. I have kind of stopped responding to threads like this because of all the negativity that tends to ensue... so I hope we can stay realistic with the pros and cons and not turn into professional-school-hating. It seems like a lot of you are where I was last year, so...

First of all, in my experience, the Wright and CSPP are pretty equal in terms of reputation in the area. There are a LOT of schools up here... some seen as better (PGSP specifically) and some seen as worse (Argosy and others). But definitely remember that I GO to CSPP so it may be that Wright students are seen as better than CSPP to outsiders, I really don't know. For what it's worth, I haven't experienced a drop of negativity about going to CSPP in the field here, and that includes at practicum interviews at great agencies (the VA and UCSF, to give some "big" names).

At CSPP (and I think at the Wright) you do begin practicum first year. The difference (from what I understand) is the Wright allows G1s to do therapy, whereas CSPP does not. CSPP feels that students are not ready at the very beginning of grad school to be giving therapy to others. Instead, we do 8 hours a week (as opposed to the 16 for G2 and G3 years) of a "non-clinical" practicum. We observe, co-lead group therapy, sit in on conferences, consultations, do intakes, etc. It varies depending on your site, but I've found it extremely valuable. You get the clinical experience without the immediate pressure of conducting therapy. Very rewarding, IMHO.

The Wright is very psychodynamic, and that is pretty much the extent of their reputation (at least that I've been exposed to). It is not looked down upon at my school, and pretty much the only real comments I've heard are about it being a decent school and it's psychodynamic orientation. I haven't heard much about JFK. I was going to apply there last year but ended up not for personal reasons. It seemed pretty reputable from what I looked at it, but that is only my opinion based on what I read.

As far as staying away from such schools, you definitely have to be careful... as I always say, it is what you make it, good or bad. The internship match rates can be concerning, and I definitely know many people (myself included) who want to stay in CA for internships so that absolutely brings down the matching %s. So far, I don't feel like CSPP focuses too much on APA internships... the professors all really talk up the CAPIC sites. I know many classmates who aren't really aware of just how competitive APA is in relation to CAPIC. I think many students see that they will 100% be matched somewhere (meaning APA, APPIC, or CAPIC) and only apply to a few APA sites... and then don't match, which brings down the total. That is pure speculation though, but I could definitely see that happening based on what I've seen thus far.

Ok, so this was really long but I hope it helped. Now I have to go be a real grad student and study for Psychopharm... *sigh*.

 

[ProspectivePsyD]

I'm currently a first year in CSPP's PsyD program in SF. I have kind of stopped responding to threads like this because of all the negativity that tends to ensue... so I hope we can stay realistic with the pros and cons and not turn into professional-school-hating. It seems like a lot of you are where I was last year, so...

First of all, in my experience, the Wright and CSPP are pretty equal in terms of reputation in the area. There are a LOT of schools up here... some seen as better (PGSP specifically) and some seen as worse (Argosy and others). But definitely remember that I GO to CSPP so it may be that Wright students are seen as better than CSPP to outsiders, I really don't know. For what it's worth, I haven't experienced a drop of negativity about going to CSPP in the field here, and that includes at practicum interviews at great agencies (the VA and UCSF, to give some "big" names).

At CSPP (and I think at the Wright) you do begin practicum first year. The difference (from what I understand) is the Wright allows G1s to do therapy, whereas CSPP does not. CSPP feels that students are not ready at the very beginning of grad school to be giving therapy to others. Instead, we do 8 hours a week (as opposed to the 16 for G2 and G3 years) of a "non-clinical" practicum. We observe, co-lead group therapy, sit in on conferences, consultations, do intakes, etc. It varies depending on your site, but I've found it extremely valuable. You get the clinical experience without the immediate pressure of conducting therapy. Very rewarding, IMHO.

The Wright is very psychodynamic, and that is pretty much the extent of their reputation (at least that I've been exposed to). It is not looked down upon at my school, and pretty much the only real comments I've heard are about it being a decent school and it's psychodynamic orientation. I haven't heard much about JFK. I was going to apply there last year but ended up not for personal reasons. It seemed pretty reputable from what I looked at it, but that is only my opinion based on what I read.

As far as staying away from such schools, you definitely have to be careful... as I always say, it is what you make it, good or bad. The internship match rates can be concerning, and I definitely know many people (myself included) who want to stay in CA for internships so that absolutely brings down the matching %s. So far, I don't feel like CSPP focuses too much on APA internships... the professors all really talk up the CAPIC sites. I know many classmates who aren't really aware of just how competitive APA is in relation to CAPIC. I think many students see that they will 100% be matched somewhere (meaning APA, APPIC, or CAPIC) and only apply to a few APA sites... and then don't match, which brings down the total. That is pure speculation though, but I could definitely see that happening based on what I've seen thus far.

Ok, so this was really long but I hope it helped. Now I have to go be a real grad student and study for Psychopharm... *sigh*.

Wow this was all so helpful, thank you so much for all this information, I have just been accepted to CSPP and this was wonderful to read, thank you!

 

[RunnyBabbit]

Congrats on your acceptance to CSPP, ProspectivePsyD!!! That is wonderful, and I hope I hear similar news soon myself. 🙂

As far as JFK, I have heard both good and bad opinions. Can't remember specifics on the bad, but mostly that it is not as well established as Wright or CSPP. I didn't apply to JFK based on this information, in addition to the fact that it would be quite a commute for me. But I also knew students who considered the school their first choice, as they visited and really connected to the faculty/program. It's all about fit.

Thank you to all that have replied on this board, as well as to those who have personally emailed me. I think I can speak for all the applicants when I say your honest advice and opinions are truly appreciated and very helpful. Choosing a grad school is overwhelming and more than a bit confusing, and your help makes the process smoother. Gratz!

 

[erg923]

I think that focusing on CAPIC sites is both naive and short sighted, career wise. Please be sure you guys know what your getting into and the limitations you are putting on your career when you do this.

 

[Dr D]

I went to CSPP Fresno. I was in their 1st PsyD graduating class. It became accredited before I graduated. CSPP is an excellent school to learn how to practice the art & science of psychology. I was offered 5 full time predoctoral interships. All APA accredited. I'm licensed in CA & make $204,000.00 a year. I was very happy with my clinical & theoretical training that I received from CSPP-Fresno. It was rather traditional. I'm a happy clinical & forensic psychologist. 🙄

 

[erg923]

how does this add to the discussion.....we are talking bell curves here pal....not individuals.....🙄 Your post adresses none of the points that people have made about the concerns regarding the recent match rate and the professional school training model-which is controversial (to say the least) in the mainstream academic community.

 

[thewesternsky]

I went to CSPP Fresno. I was in their 1st PsyD graduating class. It became accredited before I graduated. CSPP is an excellent school to learn how to practice the art & science of psychology. I was offered 5 full time predoctoral interships. All APA accredited. I'm licensed in CA & make $204,000.00 a year. I was very happy with my clinical & theoretical training that I received from CSPP-Fresno. It was rather traditional. I'm a happy clinical & forensic psychologist. 🙄

Do you really get offers like that for internships? I thought it was a match process for the APA/APPIC sites? (Still a few years away from internship myself, so I may be wrong; I just didn't think you found out what sites had ranked you except for the one that you match with...)

 

[RileyG]

great question, thewesternsky. I'm also wondering how it was APA accredited if you graduated in their 1st PsyD class. Don't several classes have to graduate before a program is even eligible for APA accreditation?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Do you really get offers like that for internships? I thought it was a match process for the APA/APPIC sites? (Still a few years away from internship myself, so I may be wrong; I just didn't think you found out what sites had ranked you except for the one that you match with...)

There was a time (8-10+ years ago?) where people were able to get multiple offers, and then choose what they wanted. IIRC, the person could hold onto 1 offer if they were waiting out another, but they couldn't hold onto multiple offers. Obviously that all changed, and now the match is a 1 time offer/match.

 

[DrPsych]

There was a time (8-10+ years ago?) where people were able to get multiple offers, and then choose what they wanted. IIRC, the person could hold onto 1 offer if they were waiting out another, but they couldn't hold onto multiple offers. Obviously that all changed, and now the match is a 1 time offer/match.

Therapist4Change: Where did you get that info???? Multiple offers???
I was a student in the mid 90's and applied for an APA internships in 1997. I can tell you for a fact that receiving more than one offer from an APA internship was RARE!
I do know of only one guy who had to his credit multiple publications - and he did get more than one offer. But the rest of us -no way. But, I think it's important to keep things in perspective: While I recommend an APA placement because the quality of the training will definitely be the highest (usually) the primary limit (so far I've seen) has to do with being hired by the VA which require APA internship training.
PS: I work part time at clinic which is working on becoming APA accredited, and boy does the APA make these internship jump through hoops to get that accreditation (to the APA's credit, btw!)

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Therapist4Change: Where did you get that info???? Multiple offers???
I was a student in the mid 90's and applied for an APA internships in 1997. I can tell you for a fact that receiving more than one offer from an APA internship was RARE!
I do know of only one guy who had to his credit multiple publications - and he did get more than one offer. But the rest of us -no way. But, I think it's important to keep things in perspective: While I recommend an APA placement because the quality of the training will definitely be the highest (usually) the primary limit (so far I've seen) has to do with being hired by the VA which require APA internship training.
PS: I work part time at clinic which is working on becoming APA accredited, and boy does the APA make these internship jump through hoops to get that accreditation (to the APA's credit, btw!)

My comments weren't aimed at a specific program, but instead at how the process has changed. As for the importance of APA-acred.....unfortunately many programs are downplaying the career impact of a non-APA-acred internship. It isn't the end of the world, but many jobs req. both an APA-acred program and internship. JS mentioned that some programs encourage other acreds because they cannot consistantly place in APA-acred ones. It is a disservice to the students, to limit them before they even get licensed.

 

[flow2pattern]

My mentor loves to talk about her experience of matching prior to the whole matching-system (as we know it today). They got telephone calls from various sites on match day and would be invited to train with their internship program. So it was possible to get multiple offers on match day.

This system probably lasted til the early to mid 90s? Not sure about that.

Also, if you enter into a non-accredited program that gets accredited while you are enrolled, you will graduate from an "APA-accredited program."

So Dr. D's experiences makes sense to me.

 

[UnknownStudent]

Be careful w/JFK they are on probation with the APA, you wouldn't want to sign on for a degree & take a chance they my loose accreditation.

 

[O Gurl]

I went to CSPP Fresno. I was in their 1st PsyD graduating class. It became accredited before I graduated. CSPP is an excellent school to learn how to practice the art & science of psychology. I was offered 5 full time predoctoral interships. All APA accredited. I'm licensed in CA & make $204,000.00 a year. I was very happy with my clinical & theoretical training that I received from CSPP-Fresno. It was rather traditional. I'm a happy clinical & forensic psychologist. 🙄

If that is all true then great for you, but the reality of national match has changed quite a bit. As ClinPsyD917 pointed out, CSPP currently does not emphasize seeking APA accredited sites and as Erg and others have pointed out, this can be quite the career limitation. Thus, a person entering their program right now would reasonably have a more difficult time following your trajectory to success and prosperity. But hey, when the OP comes out and says: "I already know all the negatives about professional schools in general, and the ongoing debate of PsyD vs. PhD, so please don't go into all of that" then I am less inclined to try to offer information. Hopefully they are aware of the reality of the decision. With that all I can say is Good Luck.

 

[The Dark Helmet]

If that is all true then great for you, but the reality of national match has changed quite a bit. As ClinPsyD917 pointed out, CSPP currently does not emphasize seeking APA accredited sites and as Erg and others have pointed out, this can be quite the career limitation. Thus, a person entering their program right now would reasonably have a more difficult time following your trajectory to success and prosperity. But hey, when the OP comes out and says: "I already know all the negatives about professional schools in general, and the ongoing debate of PsyD vs. PhD, so please don't go into all of that" then I am less inclined to try to offer information. Hopefully they are aware of the reality of the decision. With that all I can say is Good Luck.

Well aren't you a little late to the party? A post that's nearly 2 years old... come on now, you can do better than getting sucked into threads that are irrelevant or do you wax nostalgic about old posts.

Shouldn't you consider getting a life rather than being party to reviving zombie threads? I thought you were smarter than that... or was it that you just couldn't resist commenting on the general disdain that funded students have for professional program attendees?

Think of it as affirmative action for the intellectually challenged. Leveling the playing field with cash. 🙂 Sure, they didn't have the grades or GRE scores to get into fully funded programs but they were extended consideration because of wealth or the ability to access it through federal student loan programs.

Perhaps schools that expect stellar GPA's and GRE scores are doing a disservice to the community? If academic potential has nothing to do with professional ability as a clinician then why are these standards standing in the way of thousands of people who wish to help others? A lot of criticism is aimed at professional schools but little empirical evidence exists to show that the curriculum is inferior to the curriculum offered at not for profit universities. If that is the case, then the primary difference is the student... which is also the end product... Do you think that the same students would fare better in a fully funded program despite a proven academic track record? Finally if the curriculum is inferior to fully funded universities, then why does the APA continue to accredit them?

👍 I'm all for leveling the playing field... Anyone who has a real desire to commit themselves to becoming a practitioner of clinical psychology should have the opportunity to do so. After all, we are all created equal, right?

Enlighten us O Gurl.

TDH.

 

[O Gurl]

Well aren't you a little late to the party? A post that's nearly 2 years old... come on now, you can do better than getting sucked into threads that are irrelevant or do you wax nostalgic about old posts.

Shouldn't you consider getting a life rather than being party to reviving zombie threads? I thought you were smarter than that... or was it that you just couldn't resist commenting on the general disdain that funded students have for professional program attendees?

Think of it as affirmative action for the intellectually challenged. Leveling the playing field with cash. 🙂 Sure, they didn't have the grades or GRE scores to get into fully funded programs but they were extended consideration because of wealth or the ability to access it through federal student loan programs.

Perhaps schools that expect stellar GPA's and GRE scores are doing a disservice to the community? If academic potential has nothing to do with professional ability as a clinician then why are these standards standing in the way of thousands of people who wish to help others? A lot of criticism is aimed at professional schools but little empirical evidence exists to show that the curriculum is inferior to the curriculum offered at not for profit universities. If that is the case, then the primary difference is the student... which is also the end product... Do you think that the same students would fare better in a fully funded program despite a proven academic track record? Finally if the curriculum is inferior to fully funded universities, then why does the APA continue to accredit them?

👍 I'm all for leveling the playing field... Anyone who has a real desire to commit themselves to becoming a practitioner of clinical psychology should have the opportunity to do so. After all, we are all created equal, right?

Enlighten us O Gurl.

TDH.

Hi, Mark.....

Look, I am going to stop laughing and get straight to the point. It is beyond silly that you exposed yourself as an ultra conservative (trending bigoted) psychology trainee with a not-so-welcoming view of diversity and thus got run off of the forum because it dawned on you that you are easily identifiable (using portions of your name and having revealed where you are you are training) and now return under a brand spanking new account to rehash issues from the last exchange we had and even left your tell-tale signature at the bottom

I am getting a tad bit freaked out. LET. IT. GO.

GNite.

 

[psich]

Hi, Mark.....

Look, I am going to stop laughing and get straight to the point. It is beyond silly that you exposed yourself as an ultra conservative (trending bigoted) psychology trainee with a not-so-welcoming view of diversity and thus got run off of the forum because it dawned on you that you are easily identifiable (using portions of your name and having revealed where you are you are training) and now return under a brand spanking new account to rehash issues from the last exchange we had and even left your tell-tale signature at the bottom

I am getting a tad bit freaked out. LET. IT. GO.

GNite.

Do you really think it's Mark? I would think (or hope) that he would have a little more class than that.

 

[Student4Life0]

Do you really think it's Mark? I would think (or hope) that he would have a little more class than that.

I also wonder if somebody seemingly bright such as Mark would put together such a poor argument. It is probably the worst pro-professional school post that I have ever seen.

 

[Student4Life0]

I also wonder if somebody seemingly bright such as Mark would put together such a poor argument. It is probably the worst pro-professional school post that I have ever seen.

Nevermind. I am now going to understand the post as sarcasm. lol

 

[O Gurl]

Do you really think it's Mark? I would think (or hope) that he would have a little more class than that.

Absolutely. I would never try to sully someone's name (even their longtime online moniker) if I wasn't 100% sure. Please believe that.

Our heated affirmative action discussion (located in the male/female ratio thread- not that I recommend you read it cause it was not that interesting), followed by the melodramatic exit, then this left-field, off-topic, and very personal response to me (with his unique tendency to sign his posts) from a brand new poster all points to one thing.

Plain pathetic. But whatever. Some people take their online activities very seriously.

 

[O Gurl]

Jon,

I respect your opinion, but I also think you are oversimplifying the issues dramatically. A lot more was said than what you quoted.


Regardless, I do not think that anything got to a point where his leaving (or mine) was warranted. No one violated any forum rules or anything. I do think that if a person insists on pushing a touchy subject, they should be prepared for some passionate responses. I can deal with the exchange. I am more shocked and disappointed by his reaction afterward-- melodramatics and now apparently juvenile jabbing.

 

[KayJay85]

Further, I am somewhat alarmed that people use the idea that they can figure out who someone is as some sort of weapon to oppress discussion. Mark P's position in the AA thread was not an expression of racism, yet you are responding to him as if he's burning crosses in people's yards in the '50s. That kind of demogoguery is intended to take reasonable discussion off of the table, to bury the messenger and avoid rationale debate. I don't think we need to do that. Hell, if you think he's unreasonable, illustrate it. You seem to be perfectly capable of holding your own on that level.

I think you and I also had an exchange on the thread in question so for you to come here and completely downplay what happened is a bit annoying. You posted the most mundane aspect of Markp's argument. At the end of the day, he is entitled to his opinion, but to "bet money" that minority psychologists/trainees would have poorer application statistics and then post a study with convoluted references in support of his claim was incendiary. To then create a new profile to revive the argument in an unrelated thread after starting a whole thread to announce his exit in a very histrionic fashion was all tasteless on Markp's part. Not sure how he is being treated unfairly.

 

[KayJay85]

KayJay,

I didn't see it as a big deal.

I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said. I just think that if you are going to take time to re-post it you might as well post a fair account. But no worries, it really is not a huge deal.

 

[Ollie123]

Am I the only one who found the entire exchange that set this off to be unbelievably mild, tame, and respectful compared to many of the other "discussions" that have taken place here? I'd have barely noticed were it not for Mark leaving and the "drama" that ensued from him saying goodbye.

With 5 minutes of searching, I can probably turn up 30 PhD/PsyD/professional school threads that make that one look like a veritable hippie love-fest.

 

[aequitasveritas]

Am I the only one who found the entire exchange that set this off to be unbelievably mild, tame, and respectful compared to many of the other "discussions" that have taken place here? I'd have barely noticed were it not for Mark leaving and the "drama" that ensued from him saying goodbye.

With 5 minutes of searching, I can probably turn up 30 PhD/PsyD/professional school threads that make that one look like a veritable hippie love-fest.

I too am in shock

 

[ClinicalPHD5]

I get daily job postings for recent grads from our training director and I would say 80-90% of them require an APA accredited internship. These include both counseling center positions, medical schools, and of course VA's require it. If you do an internship through CAPIC, you would be at a HUGE disadvantage in terms of securing a job/post-doc and licensure barriers if you planned on moving out of California.

From what i hear in the field from supervisors at my practicum sites, both Wright and CSPP-SF don't have a good reputation and students from these programs don't do well in the APA internship match process.

 

[ClinicalPHD5]

I went to CSPP Fresno. I was in their 1st PsyD graduating class. It became accredited before I graduated. CSPP is an excellent school to learn how to practice the art & science of psychology. I was offered 5 full time predoctoral interships. All APA accredited. I'm licensed in CA & make $204,000.00 a year. I was very happy with my clinical & theoretical training that I received from CSPP-Fresno. It was rather traditional. I'm a happy clinical & forensic psychologist. 🙄

I WONDER IF DR. D IS ONE OF THOSE PROFESSIONAL PSYCHOLOGY SCHOOL RECRUITERS? I've heard that professional schools post false information and lie to people in order to get them to attend their schools. It is not possible to have received 5 APA internship offers.

 

[O Gurl]

It is if one applied to internship before the Match system (which in the grand scheme of things was not really implemented until pretty recently).

Yes. This is true... but not very pertinent for a person who is seeking internship in the current climate. That was a very different place and time, so trying to use this as a selling point is a bit of a cheap tactic IMHO.

 

[O Gurl]

Oh, for sure. If it were up to me, I'd get rid of for-profit professional schools. I'm hard pressed to think of any benefits of having them.

Sorry, I didn't mean for that to sound like it was directed at you. 😳

I mean it is kinda sketchy for "Dr. D" to use that as a selling point in 2011.

 

[aequitasveritas]

Oh, for sure. If it were up to me, I'd get rid of for-profit professional schools. I'm hard pressed to think of any benefits of having them.

Alliant/CSPP IS NOT A FOR PROFIT SCHOOL.

 

[Student4Life0]

Alliant/CSPP IS NOT A FOR PROFIT SCHOOL.

Is the argument that non-profit professional schools are somehow better than the for-profit professional schools? I'm just curious. I haven't spent any time looking into either.

 

[erg923]

No, but it is a free standing professional school with pretty awful match rates (worse than Argosy in some cases - scary!) for the most part. Frankly, I would do away with non university-based programs altogether. Just because someone wants a Ph.D., it does not mean they are entitled to one, and creating programs with lower admission standards and a reputation for lower quality training, it's really not doing the field any favors.

The take-home summary message that has been repeated a thousand times around here only to be rebuffed by with comments such as "Elitism", "Ivory Tower," "not everyone can do it the traditional way" or some other nonsense that shows reckless abandon for the profession at large.

I have long said that my state is dominated by professional school grads (many of whom are great clinicians), but in 2011, I cant imagine a cogent argument for how they are really good for the students (tuition that is way out of balance for average salaries and all to often, a neglect of the scientific/research base of psychology) OR the profession (lower quality students due to lower admission criteria, market flooding, worsening of the internship imbalanace, the reputation they project to physicians in the medical settings we work).

Professionals schools actually didn't use to be this way. CSPP, for example, used to be fairly small (although larger than many university programs) and very well respected. Some of its older alumni have expressed real disappointment on what it (and many other professional schools) have now become. Its a shame really-An alternate training model that, at the time, I think was needed, but has ultimately become a shell of its former self.

 

[KayJay85]

Alliant/CSPP IS NOT A FOR PROFIT SCHOOL.

True. They tout themselves as an independent, not-for-profit university, but a comparison of their tuition and fees to the training/resources typically provided university settings (university supported training sites, grant-funded research opportunities, high-caliber professors) sure welcomes the comparisons. I can't image what are they doing with the $8000K/semester fulltime tuition; $2500K/semester internship tuition; and $3000K/semester "dissertation extension" tuition they are collecting from hundreds of students at each site that isn't garnering a HUGE profit.

At the end of the day, it is not the profit vs. non-profit hat that draws criticism, it is the shameless rip-off of ill-informed/impatient/entitled/too-settled-to-relocate students. Case in point, this little gem taken from the Alliant Website:

Models of Internship Training

There are two models of internship training. One involves a full-time placement in an APA-accredited internship in the last year of the program. Another model of internship training involves doing two, half-time internships which are integrated within the last two years of the academic experience. Both models provide a high-quality, sequential and cumulative learning experience.
APA-accredited internships are full-time and usually offer stipends. Although students are encouraged to apply for an APA-accredited internship, CSPP also offers the part-time internship option in agencies carefully selected for CSPP students.

Gotta love how they omit the part where not securing an APA-accredited internship automatically and permanently limits your future career options. But hey, being able to get a decent paying job at the end of 5-6+ years of study is just "one model" of training. *sigh*

 

[aequitasveritas]

Oh...don't get me wrong; I agree with pretty much all that has been stated.

 

[psychstudent333]

Hi all,

I hope you will forgive a new member for reviving an old thread!

After reading the comments below, it becomes obvious to me why someone would want to avoid going to a professional school, especially one that lacks an adequate rate of APA placements such as CSPP. Where would you recommend that I apply in order to have a good chance of getting an APA placement? I am interested in DBT, narrative therapy, family systems theory, CBT, mood disorders, adolescents, and marriage and family therapy. My ideal school would be low on research. Is this mutually exclusive if I want a decent chance for getting an APA placement?

Thank you so much!

 

[Ollie123]

I'd say it depends what you mean by "low on research". If you mean "I won't have to do it" than you are pretty much limiting your option to poorly respected PsyD programs that a significant portion of the field views as a "fake doctorate". If you would be okay with a school that prepares students primarily for practice, but also expects students to conduct novel, empirical studies for their thesis/dissertation (even if their other research involvement is fairly minimal) than you have a wide variety of excellent options. Your interests are all over the place so its virtually impossible to make specific recommendations - I can't imagine any APA accredited program not providing coverage of at least some of those topics, though some (e.g. narrative therapy) are a bit more obscure and not very respected.

You'll likely want to look at university based PsyD programs (i.e. Rutgers, Baylor, etc.) and some of the more clinically-focused/balanced PhD programs, as long as you are open to getting a solid background in research even if there is no expectation you would go on to conduct it beyond grad school.