Wrong thread delete please

[tturchi51]

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Since apparently the entire world considers Caitlyn Jenner to be a 'woman," it got me wondering. What gender would schools consider her/him/it?

 

[Promethean]

You know, Caitlyn Jenner isn't the only transgender person in the world. There are even several of us here on SDN, who have actually applied to and/or been accepted to medical schools. I applied as a male, because I am a man. My chromosomes are XX and I was raised as a girl, but transitioned during nursing school a few years ago.

It is really disrespectful to refer to a person as an "it" unless they have requested that pronoun for some reason. Generally, the etiquette is to call people according to the gender they prefer, so for Jenner, that would be "she."

 

[The Cheat]

God damn. I wonder if 4chan is picking on SDN right now? There are a lot of trolls here recently.

 

[tturchi51]

I wasn't trolling I'm being serious. Also sorry for the "it" statement it was just a joke, damn. Anyways, public schools are obligated to take x amount of ethnicities and genders in order to receive state and federal funding. I know females that have identical applications as males except lower mcat and gpas that were accepted last year. Just wanted to hear some opinions and see if that has happened.

 

[deleted577188]

I'm seriously starting to hate SDN...

 

[tturchi51]

I apologize for what I said. Please delete moderator!

 

[Oo Cipher oO]

God damn. I wonder if 4chan is picking on SDN right now? There are a lot of trolls here recently.

Its not out of the realm of possibility that an online group would target SDN for trolling. The pre-med forum has enough neurotic energy with easily jimmy rustling to be easy prey.

 

[Promethean]

I apologize for what I said. Please delete moderator!

Notice that my response to you was measured, that it didn't assume you meant harm.

You asked a worthwhile question, though loaded with some extra baggage, but I still trust that you meant no harm. Ours is a culture of irreverence and making jokes at the expense of others not present is not only acceptable, but rewarded at every turn. It isn't strange that you would try to make a"funny" comment at Jenner's expense, and I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to hold it against you. I will make sure that you are aware of the actual etiquette, though, so that you don't mistake a cheap shot for an appropriate form of address to use with regard to a future patient, or colleague, or someone else who deserves better from you.

With that housekeeping aside, to answer your points:

You don't know females with identical applications to males. Even if their stats are approximately the same, they didn't write the same essays, have identical ECs, apply at the precise same time to the same school, or interview identically well. They didn't demonstrate identical personal characteristics that go beyond the numbers. There is no shortage of high stat individuals to admit to medical schools, so that there is no reason for schools to need to lower the bar to get the right number of either gender into seats. There will be some variation in the actual numbers of MCAT scores and GPAs of admitted students to a particular school, but they are all going to fall within fairly narrow ranges. There are many factors that go into selecting which individuals from within a pool of applicants with given stats actually get seats. Gender is only one.

As for how a transgender student would "count," it would probably depend on what they put on their app. Any school that is going to play gender police and decide which grouping a student "really" belonged in is one that is far more likely to just avoid the controversy by moving along to an applicant that doesn't cause them to have to make that determination. I didn't talk about my own gender in my app at all. I did discuss wanting to make a contribution toward better access to care for GLBT patients, but I didn't feel the need to waste precious characters discussing irrelevant personal matters. Everyone has coming of age stories, and they might be very interesting indeed, but the PS is about why you want to be a doctor, and I had more cogent things to say about that directly. If my school wasn't aware they were getting a transguy as a student, so much the better. They got a little extra diversity thrown in for "free," no need to do anything extra to make it happen.

I'm hoping your thread doesn't get deleted... and that it doesn't turn into a dogpile. There is absolutely room for civil discussion regarding these topics.

One reason that I am so vocal about being transgender is that we are health care professionals, or going to be someday, and we will encounter patients who are transgender, or gender nonconforming, etc. Those patients deserve to be cared for by people who have at least given serious thought to an issue that so greatly impacts their physical, mental, social, and spiritual well-being. Even if we come to different opinions regarding these issues, they deserve to be given meaningful consideration, beyond crude jokes and celebrity gawking. Although this discussion started out a little rough, I thank you for opening it up. I hope you will come to appreciate its value as much as I do.

 

[Promethean]

Its not out of the realm of possibility that an online group would target SDN for trolling. The pre-med forum has enough neurotic energy with easily jimmy rustling to be easy prey.

It isn't enough to be easy prey. We'd also have to be satisfying targets. Pranksters especially enjoy finding pompous, overblown egos with self-righteousness complexes that they can bring down to earth. Truly epic trolling isn't just about getting goats, but about instilling some humility into those who need it the most...

...crap.

If SDN ever hits their radar, we are so screwed.

 

[DokterMom]

I found the following very helpful at explaining basic transgender issues to an 'uninformed but not necessarily hostile' audience and have recommended it several times in the past. It may not be the most sophisticated analysis, but there's something about the plain language and simple concepts that speaks to me.

http://mashable.com/2015/04/24/transgender-myths/

 

[DokterMom]

Notice that my response to you was measured, that it didn't assume you meant harm.

You asked a worthwhile question, though loaded with some extra baggage, but I still trust that you meant no harm. Ours is a culture of irreverence and making jokes at the expense of others not present is not only acceptable, but rewarded at every turn. It isn't strange that you would try to make a"funny" comment at Jenner's expense, and I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to hold it against you. I will make sure that you are aware of the actual etiquette, though, so that you don't mistake a cheap shot for an appropriate form of address to use with regard to a future patient, or colleague, or someone else who deserves better from you.

With that housekeeping aside, to answer your points:

You don't know females with identical applications to males. Even if their stats are approximately the same, they didn't write the same essays, have identical ECs, apply at the precise same time to the same school, or interview identically well. They didn't demonstrate identical personal characteristics that go beyond the numbers. There is no shortage of high stat individuals to admit to medical schools, so that there is no reason for schools to need to lower the bar to get the right number of either gender into seats. There will be some variation in the actual numbers of MCAT scores and GPAs of admitted students to a particular school, but they are all going to fall within fairly narrow ranges. There are many factors that go into selecting which individuals from within a pool of applicants with given stats actually get seats. Gender is only one.

As for how a transgender student would "count," it would probably depend on what they put on their app. Any school that is going to play gender police and decide which grouping a student "really" belonged in is one that is far more likely to just avoid the controversy by moving along to an applicant that doesn't cause them to have to make that determination. I didn't talk about my own gender in my app at all. I did discuss wanting to make a contribution toward better access to care for GLBT patients, but I didn't feel the need to waste precious characters discussing irrelevant personal matters. Everyone has coming of age stories, and they might be very interesting indeed, but the PS is about why you want to be a doctor, and I had more cogent things to say about that directly. If my school wasn't aware they were getting a transguy as a student, so much the better. They got a little extra diversity thrown in for "free," no need to do anything extra to make it happen.

I'm hoping your thread doesn't get deleted... and that it doesn't turn into a dogpile. There is absolutely room for civil discussion regarding these topics.

One reason that I am so vocal about being transgender is that we are health care professionals, or going to be someday, and we will encounter patients who are transgender, or gender nonconforming, etc. Those patients deserve to be cared for by people who have at least given serious thought to an issue that so greatly impacts their physical, mental, social, and spiritual well-being. Even if we come to different opinions regarding these issues, they deserve to be given meaningful consideration, beyond crude jokes and celebrity gawking. Although this discussion started out a little rough, I thank you for opening it up. I hope you will come to appreciate its value as much as I do.

Spoken like a true gentleman -- It is so important that we can and do talk about these issues in a civil tone and with charitable hearts. How else can we learn and grow? You're a wonderful ambassador.