WSJ Health Blog - CRNA salaries

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http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/06/18/some-nurses-land-higher-salaries-than-primary-care-doctors/#comment-189832

"Some Nurses Land Higher Salaries Than Primary Care Doctors"

Thought some people might be interested in this article. Looks like the comments section over there is going to get rough.

 

[Strength&Speed]

Anesthesia $336,000 per year
CRNA $185,000 per year

that's pretty damn good for a CRNA, i agree. I also heard about an NP in the state I live in just signed a contract for the exact same amt of money. 185,000/year. (this is from the horses mouth-no pun intended) 😉

but since ive seen some folks say a CRNA does a lot of the same stuff an Anesthesiologist does...why do you guys get paid 150 grand better? I don't mean this to be inflammatory, by the way.

 

[amyl]

that is an inflammatory statement on a DOCTORS forum even if you put some b.s. line about not meaning to be inflammatory and thus I will not bite and won't dignify it with a response. there is a seperate place on this site to discuss crna issues, bring it up there.

in which state is this that an NP makes 185k? my mother in law would like to move there. I don't think she breaks into six figures with TONS of experience.

 

[Consigliere]

...why do you guys get paid 150 grand better? I don't mean this to be inflammatory, by the way.

Oh.....I don't know, perhaps the ability to diagnose, prescribe and medically direct. Oh yeah, and those 8 years of medical school and residency. Hey pal, here's a quarter - go buy yourself a clue.😎

 

[jetproppilot]

but since ive seen some folks say a CRNA does a lot of the same stuff an Anesthesiologist does...why do you guys get paid 150 grand better?

I qualified for the extra money by making the top twenty in a WSOP no-limit tournament last year.

I think Noy qualified by pulling off a triple lutz on his board, and Mil was just a second behind Valentino Rossi in a race last month, which put him in the money too.

 

[nvshelat]

These numbers really vary so much. Allied physician survey says 275k... these recruiters are quoting 330... I expect some variance in surveys, but that much!

 

[Strength&Speed]

I qualified for the extra money by making the top twenty in a WSOP no-limit tournament last year.

I think Noy qualified by pulling off a triple lutz on his board, and Mil was just a second behind Valentino Rossi in a race last month, which put him in the money too.

lol Jet. I should have known people would get pissed. I am NOT trying to be inflammatory. I understand that doctors are smarter than nurses, don't get me wrong. I would much rather have an anesthesiologist than a CRNA. Jesus Christ almighty. I was curious, where the f'in rubber meets the road financially where you are getting paid 150 more. What services are they actually paying you more for because you are an MD. It actually is a valid question since you have some overlap in job responsibility. I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE AS SMART AS YOU. I will take my question to the CRNA forum.

 

[Bertelman]

I will take my question to the CRNA forum.

Enjoy your time there.

G'head and ask them if they think they should make as much as physicians.

 

[Strength&Speed]

Oh.....I don't know, perhaps the ability to diagnose, prescribe and medically direct. Oh yeah, and those 8 years of medical school and residency. Hey pal, here's a quarter - go buy yourself a clue.😎

Sorry if I offended you. But there are CRNA's working independently in some areas, and I'm pretty sure they are diagnosing, prescribing, and medically directing. As above, I do not consider them equivalent to MD's in either training or knowledge. But since they are doing some of the same things, I was curious how the reimbursement is different. Ok, hoss? I'll take it to the CRNA forum.

 

[2ndyear]

You're right, for a case, reimbursement is the same whether its MD or CRNA. My CRNA friends don't really take any call. They might work a few late shifts now and again, the occasional Saturday, but not real call. Now those jobs are out there for CRNA's, the q2-3 overnight call, and they are reimbursed well. But they're rare. Now for MD's, when I looked at jobs no call is too good to be true. The real high dollar jobs were q3 or a4.

MD's can make more by- taking a lot more call for one thing, blocks, covering the ICU if need be, pain rounds, pain procedures, as well as just being the doctor around. When I'm at my outpatient center, rules say an MD must be around until the last patient is out the door. Period. It probably ain't gonna be the ortho guy...

 

[jetproppilot]

lol Jet. I should have known people would get pissed. I am NOT trying to be inflammatory. I understand that doctors are smarter than nurses, don't get me wrong. I would much rather have an anesthesiologist than a CRNA. Jesus Christ almighty. I was curious, where the f'in rubber meets the road financially where you are getting paid 150 more. What services are they actually paying you more for because you are an MD. It actually is a valid question since you have some overlap in job responsibility. I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE AS SMART AS YOU. I will take my question to the CRNA forum.

I think the question should be the other way around....like how did nurses salaries get so high?

Why do they make more than a primary care doctor? I think thats much more disturbing than your quoted amount of an anesthesiologist getting paid "150" more.

 

[Coastie]

Exactly.

I think the question should be the other way around....like how did nurses salaries get so high?

Why do they make more than a primary care doctor? I think thats much more disturbing than your quoted amount of an anesthesiologist getting paid "150" more.

 

[Strength&Speed]

Got my answer: call, being the supervising MD, blocks, ICU coverage, pain procedures. That seems to be the answer.

Thanks.

 

[ecCA1]

Looking at what you've written, it appears that you already knew the answers to your question.

lol

 

[Strength&Speed]

Looking at what you've written, it appears that you already knew the answers to your question.

lol

i had a suspicion, but I don't make life-altering decisions based on suspicions.

 

[amyl]

as one of the surgeons i know says:
you are a nurse, you are paid to do, not think. just follow orders.

-- btw, the nurses LOVE him 🙂

 

[Consigliere]

I'll take it to the CRNA forum.

Please do

 

[Arch Guillotti]

That a CRNA can make more than any physician is nauseating. Move this garbage.

 

[Planktonmd]

Anesthesia $336,000 per year
CRNA $185,000 per year

that's pretty damn good for a CRNA, i agree. I also heard about an NP in the state I live in just signed a contract for the exact same amt of money. 185,000/year. (this is from the horses mouth-no pun intended) 😉

but since ive seen some folks say a CRNA does a lot of the same stuff an Anesthesiologist does...why do you guys get paid 150 grand better? I don't mean this to be inflammatory, by the way.

So, you seem to introduce yourself as a surgery resident or something like that, am I right?
I am curious why would a surgery resident ( a form of physician last time I checked) would find it strange that a physician is paid more than a nurse?
Are you trying to imply that the pay should be based on the number of technical procedures one can do?
If that is the case then I can train a chimpanzee to do surgery and give him the same pay of a surgeon, would that be OK?
I bet the chimpanzee would be fun to have in the OR.

 

[amyl]

or a robot?

 

[Strength&Speed]

I replied to Plankton via PM to his questions. First of all, I apologize for asking the question in the inflammatory way I did. I didn't mean to offend anyone, and I have immense respect for Anesthesiologists. Second, yes, you can teach NP's and PA's to do surgeries, but the problem arises when there are complications or things outside their scope. therefore, its probably impractical and dangerous to have them doing too many surgeries.

My question wasn't whether CRNA's can do everything you do, but rather whether they are capable of doing cases. Since this is a decent amount of what anesthesiologists do (doing cases) I was merely asking where the extra pay came from, was it from perioperative medicine/ICU/or whatever, since reimbursement for cases is the same. That's all I wanted to know.

Plankton was kind enough to inform me that there is more to anesthesiology than just getting the patient off the table alive. I'm sure you impact length of time in recovery, patient morbidity, etc in ways that I failed to appreciate. I already knew you were the experts in perioperative medicine, which the CRNA's cannot do.

I'm sorry for offending anyone.

 

[lfesiam]

I think the question should be the other way around....like how did nurses salaries get so high?

Why do they make more than a primary care doctor? I think thats much more disturbing than your quoted amount of an anesthesiologist getting paid "150" more.

Supply and Demand in society.

Decreased General Practice MD Supply = Increased NP and PA Supply.
Decreased Anesthesiologists = Increased CRNA and AA Supply.

So...increase the supply of anesthesiologists by increasing more residency spots to balance out the dichotomy. But...

Increased Residency spots = Decreased faculty per resident.

So in the end, we have to increase support for Academia

Teaching is more rewarding than $$$ in my opinion.

 

[MSU spartan]

In regards to Anesthesiologist making more it is because we usually put in more hours to the JOB. Also, there are many PA's and NP's who do the exact same job as a Family medicine doc and Internist 's and they get paid less so how is this different from a CRNA and Anesthesioogist's pay difference.

 

[Tenesma]

am i wrong? i thought medicare only reimburses CRNAs at 85% of what a physician gets paid for the same amount of RVU?

also, there is a reason why anesthesiologists can ask for more income - they generate more income than CRNAs do...

it is all about what gets generated that dictates reimbursement - pediatricians see a lot of well child checks and sore throats - those E/M visits don't pay very well...

an orthopedic PA does a lot of joint injections - those pay better than E/M visits

etc...