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drmota

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so....cutting healthcare benefits for children, poor and elderly people is a good thing?...I was not aware of that....
 
Taus said:
so....cutting healthcare benefits for children, poor and elderly people is a good thing?...I was not aware of that....

huh? who said it was a good thing?
-mota
 
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DaMota said:
if bush signs this, its a huge step in the wrong direction. f-ing republicans.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/01/news/economy/domestic_spending_cuts.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

-mota

C'mon, how can this not be good?! You act like poor people/families and children can't afford ridiculously high prescription drugs/medical costs. Wait...that's right, they can't. Hope everyone that voted for Bush the second time around enjoys their tax cuts and our "leader's" compassionate conservatism... :rolleyes:
 
Taus said:
I guess I shouldve put a little smiley face at the end to make sure the sarcasm came through...

gotya. well it's definitely a good thing for rich republicans enjoying their luxurious tax-cuts while ignorant poor people continue to back a president behind the guise of fighting a war for democracy and preserving "conservative american values". what a sad sight.
-mota
 
desiredusername said:
ok, i didn't bother to even read the article, but has anything ever dissuaded dubya from taking a step in the wrong direction?
In other news, Exxon Mobil reported record profits of $36.1 in 2005, bigger than the economies of 125 of the 184 countries ranked by the World Bank.

probably comparable to the amount of money weapons industries funded by our defense department has received. thank you iraq. way to keep the dream of our military-industrial complex alive.
-mota

edit: DU- get the Me & this Army Radiohead mashups album. so fresh
 
thanks for the heads up mota...how the hell does he get away with this? poor poor people

i'm glad that a new, more informed, and hopefully more empathetic, sympathetic, and overall awesomethetic generation of doctors is coming up. i know i'll be spending a good amount of my time doing pro bono work for those that need it most...trying to undo the mess bush is creating
 
DaMota said:
edit: DU- get the Me & this Army Radiohead mashups album. so fresh
idioteque calisthenics is hot. where the hell did you find this?
why are mashups so damn cool? hollertronix vols 2 & 3 are just a bunch of dope remixes by diplo and low budget. snoop vs. the cure? Mike Jones vs. Britney Spears? who thinks of this sh|t?
 
i don't get why people would want to vote for smaller government. it's like saying, ok, i'll vote for whoever's lazy and doesn't want to exercise much effort into whatever we want the government to provide just so they can give us our money back.

seriously, if they don't want to start and fund programs that benefit the majority of this country and help us progress, i say they resign cuz they have no business running for office. i want visionaries, not cashiers.
 
desiredusername said:
idioteque calisthenics is hot. where the hell did you find this?
why are mashups so damn cool? hollertronix vols 2 & 3 are just a bunch of dope remixes by diplo and low budget. snoop vs. the cure? Mike Jones vs. Britney Spears? who thinks of this sh|t?

that 18 minute mash up of diplo and rjd2 never gets old. try and find Daytona 500 - Ghostface (panzah zandahz iron lung remix). the hotness.
-mota
 
From the tone of everyone's responses I guess you don't think ExxonMobil should make profits on the oil they provide? Remember that market conditions set oil prices. It is our(meaning the world's) demand that determines the price of crude and gasoline. Exxon Mobil spent years investing in infrastructure and oil fields, why should they be hated because the commodity they trade has increased in value? Should we set a "windfall tax" on every sector when it happens to be hot? Gold is over 500 dollars an ounce, should we tax gold owners for making a wise investment?

I think it ludicrous to blame "Big Oil" for profit that is returned to shareholders. I actually laughed during the Democratic response by Kaine after the state of the union when he was proud of the dems for suggesting this.


As for the cuts to medicaid, I do have a question for everyone. At what point does money become the limiting factor in health care? Don't call me a heartless bastard because I want to understand why people think money is no object when it comes to health. Is it the fact that consumers are not exposed to the costs of the system because of third party payors? Should healthy individuals be forced to subsidize the care of those who are obese, smoke, or have otherwise unhealthy lifestyles? Should wealthy people subsidize the care of the poor at all? Should health care be paid for in a progressive or regressive manner? ETC These are all questions that revolve around money. It should be a part of a physician's education to understand the complexity of the issues at hand. I wish they forced somehealth economics on students in medical school. I am an undergrad at UCSD and I read the textbook the medical students read about the business of health care. It provides some background about a doctor's role in healthcare but does not even attempt to provide anything on the economics behind the system as a whole. Health care consumes nearly 15% of the US GDP, nearly twice the percentage in other western nations. Why shouldn't physicians be forced to understand the fiscal ramifications of their profession?


Now that I have gone on slightly thread jacking(sorry), I want to actually discuss the "Deficit Reduction" act cited by Mota. As much as I laughed at the Democratic suggestion of Windfall taxes, the idea that the current administration is fiscally responsible is even more hilarious. Call me a "fiscal conservative" if you wish, but the idea of massive deficit spending is inherently wrong. Unlike states which must maintain balanced budgets or suffer credit rating drops that increase borrowing costs, the federal government has no such check. It can keep spending money it doesn't have so long as the deficit ceiling is raised and there is someone to buy treasuries. My concern with this Deficit Reduction is that it isn't what it says. Seriously, 39Billion dollars over 5 years. Come on! With the deficit predicted to be $400 billion this year, you call an $8B cut(~2%) progress? I disagree with where the cuts were made, but I see this entire thing as a publicity stunt with a nice name. What makes it worse is that they decided to take the money from medicaid recipients that can hardly afford life's necessities as is. For shame...
 
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As a nation, we have no business spending more money ($400-$500 billion annually) on the military than on education and healthcare combined. That is wrong.
 
SlippingSloth said:
From the tone of everyone's responses I guess you don't think ExxonMobil should make profits on the oil they provide? Remember that market conditions set oil prices. It is our(meaning the world's) demand that determines the price of crude and gasoline. Exxon Mobil spent years investing in infrastructure and oil fields, why should they be hated because the commodity they trade has increased in value? Should we set a "windfall tax" on every sector when it happens to be hot? Gold is over 500 dollars an ounce, should we tax gold owners for making a wise investment?

I think it ludicrous to blame "Big Oil" for profit that is returned to shareholders. I actually laughed during the Democratic response by Kaine after the state of the union when he was proud of the dems for suggesting this.


As for the cuts to medicaid, I do have a question for everyone. At what point does money become the limiting factor in health care? Don't call me a heartless bastard because I want to understand why people think money is no object when it comes to health. Is it the fact that consumers are not exposed to the costs of the system because of third party payors? Should healthy individuals be forced to subsidize the care of those who are obese, smoke, or have otherwise unhealthy lifestyles? Should wealthy people subsidize the care of the poor at all? Should health care be paid for in a progressive or regressive manner? ETC These are all questions that revolve around money. It should be a part of a physician's education to understand the complexity of the issues at hand. I wish they forced somehealth economics on students in medical school. I am an undergrad at UCSD and I read the textbook the medical students read about the business of health care. It provides some background about a doctor's role in healthcare but does not even attempt to provide anything on the economics behind the system as a whole. Health care consumes nearly 15% of the US GDP, nearly twice the percentage in other western nations. Why shouldn't physicians be forced to understand the fiscal ramifications of their profession?


Now that I have gone on slightly thread jacking(sorry), I want to actually discuss the "Deficit Reduction" act cited by Mota. As much as I laughed at the Democratic suggestion of Windfall taxes, the idea that the current administration is fiscally responsible is even more hilarious. Call me a "fiscal conservative" if you wish, but the idea of massive deficit spending is inherently wrong. Unlike states which must maintain balanced budgets or suffer credit rating drops that increase borrowing costs, the federal government has no such check. It can keep spending money it doesn't have so long as the deficit ceiling is raised and there is someone to buy treasuries. My concern with this Deficit Reduction is that it isn't what it says. Seriously, 39Billion dollars over 5 years. Come on! With the deficit predicted to be $400 billion this year, you call an $8B cut(~2%) progress? I disagree with where the cuts were made, but I see this entire thing as a publicity stunt with a nice name. What makes it worse is that they decided to take the money from medicaid recipients that can hardly afford life's necessities as is. For shame...

You can hardly consider oil a true market controlled by supply and demand when the supply is controlled by an international cartel, a cartel we (the US) constantly complain about as impeding on the market. Funny we should do that considering the first W Bush Secretary of Treasury Paul O'Neil masterminded the formation of the steel cartel which helps our steel companies bottom lines but raises prices to consumers in the US and abroad, just like the oil cartel helps oil companies and raises prices for consumers. I'm not opposed to companies making profits off of investments but I'd prefer to have it take place a more level playing field.

Money would not even be a consideration in healthcare if we just redirected some of our gross overspending from other areas (AKA defense). Just like you wish health economics was more integrated into a med school education, I wish med schools provided more training to help physicians better understand issues of social justice so they can understand that not all people "choose" an unhealthly lifestyle and that some people should be obligated to provide for those poor and less fortunate. Not sure if you can teach compassion but it would certainly be a good thing to screen for during the application process.
 
DaMota said:
gotya. well it's definitely a good thing for rich republicans enjoying their luxurious tax-cuts while ignorant poor people continue to back a president behind the guise of fighting a war for democracy and preserving "conservative american values". what a sad sight.
-mota
Well Mota, at least Bush is doing this in conjunction with not allowing poor people back in New Orleans, so you shouldn't have any worries. ;)
 
I must admit I didn't read the article, but isn't this the same bill that cuts the federal student aid budget, too?

As for medicaid - the fees paid to the doctors for service don't even cover costs many times. The cuts will just push doctors to not accepting medicare or medicaid and limit choices even more. If they want to cut the medicaid budget, get rid of the illegal immigrants and work on welfare reform.
 
desiredusername said:
ok, i didn't bother to even read the article, but has anything ever dissuaded dubya from taking a step in the wrong direction?
In other news, Exxon Mobil reported record profits of $36.1 in 2005, bigger than the economies of 125 of the 184 countries ranked by the World Bank.


Want to know the scary thing? Walmart beats them by $30 bil. I was reading the Economist stat book the other day. Freaky.

I listened to the SotU the other night- ok, we're getting more money for research, but he made some scary statements on "fetuses" that I assume are to be anti-choice, but I bet they will affect embryonic/stem cell stuff hugely.
Dammit. :eek:
 
The supposed "cuts" to Medicare are actually shifts in the payment schedule that reduce payments to corporations that are taking advantage of Medicare loopholes, and getting BILLION$ in excess payments (and your tax dollars, by the way). The "cuts" to Medicaid include provisions that assure that rich people can't shift all their assets to their children in order to get Uncle Sam to pay for their nursing home care. Trust me, this in an election year; Congress will do NOTHING to take government benefits away from the elderly.
 
kirexhana said:
i don't get why people would want to vote for smaller government. it's like saying, ok, i'll vote for whoever's lazy and doesn't want to exercise much effort into whatever we want the government to provide just so they can give us our money back.

seriously, if they don't want to start and fund programs that benefit the majority of this country and help us progress, i say they resign cuz they have no business running for office. i want visionaries, not cashiers.

I can think of several reasons why people would vote for smaller government. First, let me say that this does not mean I support Bush, he has increased discretionary spending every year. I know from experience as a government employee, that it does NOTHING efficiently. Red tape everywhere, incompetent people basically can't be fired, committees are payed to make reports on how to reduce cost, and then their findings are ignored.

There are also economic reasons, like higher taxes. If taxes go up more, more jobs go overseas, companies keep smaller staff, unemployment goes up. Low taxes is not all about personal or corperate greed, it's about keeping jobs. Again, Bush's tax program is idiotic, but the general idea of a small government works.
 
gaganheim said:
I can think of several reasons why people would vote for smaller government. First, let me say that this does not mean I support Bush, he has increased discretionary spending every year. I know from experience as a government employee, that it does NOTHING efficiently. Red tape everywhere, incompetent people basically can't be fired, committees are payed to make reports on how to reduce cost, and then their findings are ignored.

There are also economic reasons, like higher taxes. If taxes go up more, more jobs go overseas, companies keep smaller staff, unemployment goes up. Low taxes is not all about personal or corperate greed, it's about keeping jobs. Again, Bush's tax program is idiotic, but the general idea of a small government works.


Amen.
 
This bill also drastically cut funds for federal student loans. With record high deficits, who can tell us where the money is going? Just makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, doesn't it?
 
nikibean said:
I listened to the SotU the other night- ok, we're getting more money for research, but he made some scary statements on "fetuses" that I assume are to be anti-choice, but I bet they will affect embryonic/stem cell stuff hugely.
Dammit. :eek:
Nikibean, you should now know after 6 of the speeches that anyhting the president says he's going to fund in his SotU is doomed to the chopping block.

I personally loved his comments about New Orleans that were followed by his comments about 1/2 of all AIDS cases are among African-Americans. As if to say "it's okay that we won't give you people your city back, because we should fear you and your diseased bodies anyway."

But what I loved most was his discussion about our freedom as Cindy Sheehan was being handcuffed and arrested for wearing a shirt with the # of soldiers killed in Iraq.

Ewww, I don't usually rant like this on SDN. I'm outie.
 
What makes all this worse is that the prez comes across as "a good ole boy" to a lot of Americans. What a tool.
 
At least Bush is making an attempt to be more fiscally responsible. Jook at the number of large spending programs in our country and it's easy to see that it's spiralling out of control. At this stage in the business cycle our budget should be close to balanced. Currently it is nowhere NEAR being balanced. The longer the government waits to correct this problem, the more it will sabotage future finances. The budget has become a giant pork barrel.
 
My advice to my liberal friends: win an election, then implement your ideas! Until then, you have only yourselves to blame.
 
I agree that it isn't fair for the elderly and the "honest" poor to be getting this treatment :( . Welfare reform is needed severly in this country :idea: . I work at an ER. We see lots of legitimate cases where these people need our help and can't afford it. However, we also see lots of cases where these people abuse the system at every angle :mad: . They come in with b/s cases trying to get a script, etc. Until we reform the system to cut down on these, the others will suffer.
 
kovalchuk said:
My advice to my liberal friends: win an election, then implement your ideas! Until then, you have only yourselves to blame.
You know what? You're absolutely right. And that's sad. And what made me sadder was the democratic response by the gov of virginia. What was his brilliant idea? Did he have a plan? Are we supposed to call up our senators and congressmen and ask them to work together? Wait, stop the presses, democrats have a "better way". No shlt, they have a better way, it's hard not to have a better way! Do voters care if you have a "better way"? (no, he said better way more often than this, people.) I mean, holy shlt, this is supposed to win elections? How the hell did he win an election? Aaaargh!
that's the end of my rant for today. Also, diplo rarely disappoints. that megatroid mix of dj shadow? Oh N0ess! that's too good.
 
gaganheim said:
I can think of several reasons why people would vote for smaller government. First, let me say that this does not mean I support Bush, he has increased discretionary spending every year. I know from experience as a government employee, that it does NOTHING efficiently. Red tape everywhere, incompetent people basically can't be fired, committees are payed to make reports on how to reduce cost, and then their findings are ignored.

There are also economic reasons, like higher taxes. If taxes go up more, more jobs go overseas, companies keep smaller staff, unemployment goes up. Low taxes is not all about personal or corperate greed, it's about keeping jobs. Again, Bush's tax program is idiotic, but the general idea of a small government works.

that's very true, big government = big bureaucracy :thumbdown:
 
SanDiegoSOD said:
You're not allowed to protest within the Capitol. Doesn't matter if you're Cindy Sheehan or the Dalai Lama; its the law, and it exists to protect those who work in the Capitol.

Except for the fact that what she did was legal. The charges were dropped and the police apologized. The only laws she broke were fashion-related.

And it truly is a shame with all the spending the gov does, they slash this stuff first. How about trying to do more with less military spending wise and cutting all the pork programs? There are a TREMENDOUS number of them.
 
ShyREm,
How do you suggest they get rid of illegal immigrants? I suppose they should just load them unto a truck and drop them off at the border. Isn't that right?
 
inflamesdjk02 said:
(cough) John Kerry (cough).
Between George Bush and John Kerry, one of them won the election because he is a conservative Christian and has "Christian values." Hint: it wasn't John Kerry.
 
MrBurns10 said:
Between George Bush and John Kerry, one of them won the election because he is a conservative Christian and has "Christian values." Hint: it wasn't John Kerry.


Bingo!
 
In regards to the cost of oil and the "right" of the oil companies to make so much money due to the costs of production (I agree, with the supply and demand and people like Bush who make it acceptable for oil companies to discuss business without being under oath, they can really do whatever they want), how is it fair that people on extremely fixed incomes are seeing their winter gas and electricity bills double (and even being turned off), while CEOs recorded double earnings in some cases between this year and last year? "Free market, free market, that's the way it is...Life isn't fair....blah blah blah." I just can't fathom how the energy industry is hurting atm or how anyone can have sympathy for those pool oil CEOs. Thank heaven's for a "mild" Northeast winter this year!
 
kirexhana said:
i don't get why people would want to vote for smaller government. it's like saying, ok, i'll vote for whoever's lazy and doesn't want to exercise much effort into whatever we want the government to provide just so they can give us our money back.

seriously, if they don't want to start and fund programs that benefit the majority of this country and help us progress, i say they resign cuz they have no business running for office. i want visionaries, not cashiers.

people vote for smaller government because it's an absurd notion to elect a large government by choice that will take money out of your pocket and try to control you. that said, voting for small government would be a far more libertarian concept than republican. republicans are just fine with big government as long as it's their big government (same goes for democrats). libertarians on the other hand would say the government's purpose is to make sure we don't all kill each other and to maintain some order, but for the most part to stay out of citizen's personal affairs, because it's not the government's place or right to be involved in that portion of our lives.
 
I can't even listen to Bush's speeches, if I even hear a tiny sound bite I can't help but yell "OMIGOD SHUT THE F*** UP!" at the radio. Every single thing he says pisses me off! aaaargh!!

I can't believe so many people voted for him and his "christian" values.. such as cutting benefits from the poor to fund tax cuts for his wealthy buddies.. I must have missed that sermon..
 
infiniti said:
ShyREm,
How do you suggest they get rid of illegal immigrants? I suppose they should just load them unto a truck and drop them off at the border. Isn't that right?

put a big juicy fine on firms for employing illegal immigrants and a few dozen staffers dedicated to enforcement and i bet the problem magically decreases by 90%
 
angietron3000 said:
I can't even listen to Bush's speeches, if I even hear a tiny sound bite I can't help but yell "OMIGOD SHUT THE F*** UP!" at the radio. Every single thing he says pisses me off! aaaargh!!

I can't believe so many people voted for him and his "christian" values.. such as cutting benefits from the poor to fund tax cuts for his wealthy buddies.. I must have missed that sermon..


My thoughts exactly. All I can think of when i hear/see him is this: http://www.bushorchimp.com/

And this righteous dude is supposed to be the leader of the free world?
 
jbrice1639 said:
people vote for smaller government because it's an absurd notion to elect a large government by choice that will take money out of your pocket and try to control you. that said, voting for small government would be a far more libertarian concept than republican. republicans are just fine with big government as long as it's their big government (same goes for democrats). libertarians on the other hand would say the government's purpose is to make sure we don't all kill each other and to maintain some order, but for the most part to stay out of citizen's personal affairs, because it's not the government's place or right to be involved in that portion of our lives.

yeah, there's actually a more interesting political spectrum i've seen compared to the traditional left-liberal <--> right-conservative. i think the website is www.politicalcompass.org
 
All politicians suck....its a fact.

Cut Healthcare/Medicaid/Medicare, cut funding for student loans, increase spending to big corporations, etc.

We've basically become an oligarchy....there is no middle class, you are either the haves or the havenots.


On that same note, i dont know of a single thing that Bush has done for me (IN AMERICA) that has any positive effect in these past 6 years.
 
jbrice1639 said:
people vote for smaller government because it's an absurd notion to elect a large government by choice that will take money out of your pocket and try to control you. that said, voting for small government would be a far more libertarian concept than republican. republicans are just fine with big government as long as it's their big government (same goes for democrats). libertarians on the other hand would say the government's purpose is to make sure we don't all kill each other and to maintain some order, but for the most part to stay out of citizen's personal affairs, because it's not the government's place or right to be involved in that portion of our lives.
This is a good description of my opinions as well. Who says that someone in another part of the US (say, Washington?) can find better ways to spend my money than me? There are very few things the federal government should provide: interstate highways, national defence, etc. Programs like welfare should be relegated to more local governments - Indians on reservations in the west don't have the same needs that a homeless man living in New York. The Soviets proved that big government doesn't work - redistibuting resources is a problem beyond one person's (or committee, for that matter) ability. Once basic order is maintained, each person is the expert on how to govern their lives, so let's let the experts reign.

Yet many people would rather have big government because they get benefits (at atrocious inefficentcy) for what seems like nothing, but is really increases in your taxes. Americans still make the most $$$, and for all it's problems, we still have the best health care.
 
inflamesdjk02 said:
At least Bush is making an attempt to be more fiscally responsible. Jook at the number of large spending programs in our country and it's easy to see that it's spiralling out of control. At this stage in the business cycle our budget should be close to balanced. Currently it is nowhere NEAR being balanced. The longer the government waits to correct this problem, the more it will sabotage future finances. The budget has become a giant pork barrel.

yup and who's responsibility is it gonna be to fix the budget? bush and his cronies will be long gone and it's all gonna be left to our generation. bush isn't screwing over any baby-boomers. he's screwing over their children. us. we'll be left with no money in any socialized programs and an enormous budget we have no choice but to pay off.
-mota
 
"Should healthy individuals be forced to subsidize the care of those who are obese, smoke, or have otherwise unhealthy lifestyles? Should wealthy people subsidize the care of the poor at all? "-slippingsloth


I am reminded of Churchills famous statement regarding healthcare "bringing the magic of averages to the salvation of the masses." Everyone loves to say why should I pay for the cost of others, but I do think that the more inclusive policies are, the cheaper the rates. By allowing insurance companies to divide coverages it sets up a gradient both in cost and quality of coverage. NO wealthy people should not subsidize healthcare, but by raising participation it should lower rates. (more peple paying in) Also more inclusive health policies may allow emergency rooms in poorer areas to cease being the place where people get primary care, which is proportionately much more expensive than utlizing actual primary care providers.
 
SanDiegoSOD said:
You're not allowed to protest within the Capitol. Doesn't matter if you're Cindy Sheehan or the Dalai Lama; its the law, and it exists to protect those who work in the Capitol.

By law, she wasn't protesting. Instead, she was quietly sitting down like everyone else, but wearing a tee-shirt with a slogan that the Bush administration apparently didn't care for. Another woman, the wife of some congressman who had a support the troops tee-shirt, was also escorted out, but not arrested nor detained. I thought justice was supposed to be blind and that freedom of speech still existed?
 
infiniti said:
ShyREm,
How do you suggest they get rid of illegal immigrants? I suppose they should just load them unto a truck and drop them off at the border. Isn't that right?
I never in any way insinuated the problem was simple or had an easy solution. I don't know where you got the impression that it was.

I have my own children that are of the age where they bait and try their hand at sarcasm and put-downs. They are already learning that subtlety is an art that wields the sharpest knife. There's a lot we can learn from children. :)
 
kovalchuk said:
My advice to my liberal friends: win an election, then implement your ideas! Until then, you have only yourselves to blame.
There is a constructive complaint, please add something to the discussion, for or against.
 
fiscally responsible = cutting taxes when we have a huge defecit? wow, who would have known? :rolleyes:
 
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