Yes, we chose Pharmacy

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No, they should not be compensated. Many of these preceptor sites are taking in students as free slave labor. Have you ever noticed that these sites will always have a pharmacist "who just went on vacation" when a new APPE student arrives? Think about it. If you are a preceptor and you don't have the time to walk students through task and encourage learning with students, then you should NOT be taking students. Simple concept right? If you are forced to take students, allow them to go home and do their own projects.

As far as I am aware of, there are no rules that state the the student must be within the site for the hours to count.

There are some preceptor that are the right kind, but they are few. Many preceptors use and abuse APPE students and have them complete their extra tasks that they know they can pass onto the students. Many retail sites make students count and fill...ALL DAY for 240 hours from the first hour to the last hour. These same repetitive task do NOT encourage learning nor do they interest the student who is paying $1,000/week in tuition, to perform the same routine tasks for 240 hours for 6 weeks ($6,000 in total).

Here is a story I know of/saw/experience first hand:

Student is at grocery chain retail APPE site. Student has been filling since 9 am.

Student says: "Would it be ok if I take a 15 minute break?"
Preceptor says: "I don't get a break, so why do you get a break?"

Student says: "I am starving, I was just wondering if I could eat my granola bar since I know some retail sites don't allow eating in the store."
Preceptor says: "You are hungry? Didn't we already have lunch earlier? Did you eat?"

Student says: "Yeah, but that was 6 hours ago. I have a fast metabolism. I am really hungry and have been shaking. Is it ok if I just take 5 mins to eat one of my snack in my bag? I won't be gone long. It'll be like I am just going to the restroom."
Preceptor says: "OK, you can take a few minutes. Hurry back."

I can't wait to hear someone try to defend this type of behavior and think preceptors are saviors who should be paid to have students count for 240 hours.

Two questions (essentially three):

1. Why do these types of preceptors take students?
2. Why and how is such behavior defended?

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[/QUOTE] from LivingMyBestLife
that lord of the rings meme is pretty funny. I think i'm going to make one in photoshop of it. thank you for the laugh. Thank you for the spelling correction. I agree some situations are less than ideal.

Response: Although I used a fun way to portray reality, it does not detract from the seriousness of the issue. This meme usage was not intended to be humorous but as a warning to those who choose to continue pharmacy as their career path. Memes were used by students to make their less-than-ideal situation more tolerable during school.

Different pharmacy schools also have their own standards on what they expect, which makes training and education very difficult, like states in the US who choose to favor some policies more than others. Pharmacy residencies are the same way: each program is different.
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Two questions (essentially three):

1. Why do these types of preceptors take students?
2. Why and how is such behavior defended?

1. You can read through my old posts here:

Yeap, but I have seen these same preceptors call and b!tch at the school and threaten to FAIL the student. These crap preceptors see students as free labor. I even heard grocery store managers tell my preceptors to take on more students and CUT tech hours. No BS. Preceptors are a joke. Pharmacist are so over worked, they don't have time to teach anything, they just want extra hands to fill and met metrics. The **** part is that the school allow the abuse because they want the students to get their hours and they want the tuition money.

1. Yes you can elect to NOT have students because you don't want to precept. I know a old timer pharmacist who said he will not take students because he can not sit by and lie to them, knowing they don't have a future. He is sad at what is going on and how schools are taking advantage of minority students, He said he feels so bad for us and he was not even aware of the loan that we are currently carrying. When he learned of it, he thought I was joking and he was so upset for those of us from poor communities who were just trying to better our lives. BUT he is a hospital pharmacist.

The downside in the retail setting is the store cuts down your tech hours. I know techs that only get 20 hours a week and still the store wants to cut down more hours. This means the pharmacist closes and opens the store alone if they elect to not abuse students as free labor. However, this is their job and NOT our job. If they need help, they need to hire techs, not abuse students.

2. Yes, the preceptor's handbook for pharmacist explicitly states to NOT abuse students and make them count all day, but no one gives a crap anymore. I have only met 2 preceptors who would let students leave early, but that was only because they knew it was on them and they actually read the handbook. The school doesn't give a care. They say that if you don't listen, you will be failed by your preceptor. If you doubt me, you can call Pacific's program and ask.

3. No. The store manager said to cut the tech hours, then said to position students to overlay the tech's hours so that they can learn to count and be trained a little by the tech. Pharmacists are able to take 2 interns, so the store manager was pushing this hard. Morning and night. My preceptor even came back and told me straight up how angry she was that the store manager would tell her to do this. She was a great preceptor of mine as she never abused me. When the tech would push all their work to me, she would tell me to go home and study (she also told me to NEVER be free labor to anyone).

4. Hospital outpatient. They make students count all day. As long as the place hires techs, they will abuse the hell out of students. It is rare to met a retail/outpatient preceptor who will not abuse students to met their metrics.

FYI: I have even had techs get angry and throw tantrums when my preceptors would let me leave 30 mins early, as if I was being paid to count for them. This is some of the dumbest crap. Don't do pharmacy, it is a god damn scam.

2. Schools are losing sites fasts. They don't care so long as the students are passed during their IPPE and APPEs. Many retail stores are closing and schools are losing these required hours for their students to be eligible to take the NAPLEX/MJPE; meaning student will not be able to take their exams on time and students will have delayed graduations. This reflects bad on the schools. However, all pharmacy schools are fu&#ed now anyways as enrollment applications are at their lowest ever.
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