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yes
- Thread starter maplesaga
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Yes - retake /s
(okay but in all seriousness, there is absolutely no guarantee you will do better and you hurt your application if you do and score the same/worse. you absolutely should not retake)
(okay but in all seriousness, there is absolutely no guarantee you will do better and you hurt your application if you do and score the same/worse. you absolutely should not retake)
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If you are aiming for a top 10 or even 20 school, looking at the latest msar i think you should.
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If you don't retake then you can kiss your career in academic medicine goodbye. They will see your current and past presentations, publications, 251 Step 1, High honors across the boards - But because you went to *shiver* T30 school and ONLY got the 92% percentile on the MCAT, they will shun you from every possible career opportunity. Literally, every single one. It gives me the cold sweats just thinking about it.
TL;DR - Bruh, you good. Calm yourself, you will get in somewhere. So what you aren't Harvard material? There are 165 other schools - shoot for getting a better name in residency than school.
TL;DR - Bruh, you good. Calm yourself, you will get in somewhere. So what you aren't Harvard material? There are 165 other schools - shoot for getting a better name in residency than school.
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Don't encourage this behavior. Students need to set their sites based on their performance, not judge how they should perform based on their sites.
Edit: When a student has already performed well. If you are <510 then consider a retake
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MS4 at a top school (UCSF). My MCAT appears to have been equivalent percentile-wise to a 515 per Google, and I have friends in my class who had lower MCATs, so that alone won’t hold you back from a potential acceptance. Retaking would be incredibly foolish.
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Can't recommend retake...gyngyn's school would reject you. Everybody thinks that they can do better on a retake, the vast majority do not.
Perfectionism is NOT a desired trait in med school candidates.
From the list below, you can see a number of research powerhouses
I recommend:
UCSF (maybe)
Mt Sinai
U VA
Mayo (maybe)
U MI
Case
U VM
U IA
U Toledo
USF Morsani
OH State
UCF
U Cincy
Miami
St. Louis
Albany
Albert Einstein
Rochester
Rush
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
EVMS
Wake Forest
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
Tulane
USC/Keck
Dartmouth
Seton Hall
MCW
Loyola
Emory
BU
Duke
Pitt
Hofstra
Tufts
Oakland-B
Western MI
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Nova MD
CUSM IF you're from CA
Kaiser IF you're from CA
Your state school(s).
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515 is not that far off from 518. It's slightly outside the margin of error. What makes you think you'll score better?
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yes.
Terrible idea to retake. It's a very long shot for schools like JHU, Harvard, and Stanford with your MCAT, but luckily for you there are many schools in your score range that also have very good research opportunities and for academic medicine.
And anyways, if you're as good at research as your record shows, there's no reason that you wouldn't stand out in medical school either.
Also, 515 is not "a lot lower" than 518. If you scored 508, we might have something more to discuss, but 515 is pretty close to being in the error margin.
And anyways, if you're as good at research as your record shows, there's no reason that you wouldn't stand out in medical school either.
Also, 515 is not "a lot lower" than 518. If you scored 508, we might have something more to discuss, but 515 is pretty close to being in the error margin.
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Imho, as an Asian guy with a 515 you're nearly out of the running for Hopkins Stanford HMS Penn WashU etc. But your response should be to still apply to these places, but also much more broadly and go into the cycle with tempered expectations. Retaking isn't the way to go when this was around your practice test range.
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How long did you study and how many practice tests did you take?
Not trying to encourage behavior that won’t serve you well in the end (i.e. not encouraging a retake)— I’m just curious, mostly. If you took 5 practice tests maybe you went into the real thing prematurely.
That said, 515 is an excellent score. It’s a real bummer that tippy top schools seem to LOVE the 99/100%ile stats—it means they will inevitably miss out on some quality in terms of non-test taking talent.
That said, your GPA is quite high, and it sounds like the other aspects of your application will be super solid. You’re not out of the running and you really never know how the application cycle is gonna go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not trying to encourage behavior that won’t serve you well in the end (i.e. not encouraging a retake)— I’m just curious, mostly. If you took 5 practice tests maybe you went into the real thing prematurely.
That said, 515 is an excellent score. It’s a real bummer that tippy top schools seem to LOVE the 99/100%ile stats—it means they will inevitably miss out on some quality in terms of non-test taking talent.
That said, your GPA is quite high, and it sounds like the other aspects of your application will be super solid. You’re not out of the running and you really never know how the application cycle is gonna go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@Phoebus Apollo I took three FLs averaging around 518
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I wouldn't retake. You can get into a top 20 with that score if you have good research and clinical experience along with your gpa and Harvard nametag
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Hmm. Generally better to take 7-8+ FLs before taking the real thing. How many weeks/hours did you study?
(Still probably best not to retake
)
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Why take so many? It only takes a couple times to get used to testing conditions and the only ones worth while for judging progress is the AAMC stuffHmm. Generally better to take 7-8+ FLs before taking the real thing. How many weeks/hours did you study?
(Still probably best not to retake
I couldn’t disagree with this mindset more, and its this type of defeatist/pessimist mindset that is all too common on these forums and does students a grave disservice.
A student should absolutely try to set high goals, and then think about how they should perform based on those goals. In this case, OP should have known based on his goals of getting into t20 med school what score he needed (520+) and should have not taken the mcat until he had a solid plan to hit those scores and had shown evidence via practice tests of being able to hit that score.
OP, in direct response to your question, you’re in a tough spot because your score is high enough that you will likely get into several great schools, but low enough that it will disadvantage you at the schools you are mentioning and their peer schools. The only way you should theoretically retake this exam is if you can hit around 525 or higher (since some schools will average your scores), which means that on practice tests you should be consistently hitting 527/528. If you have a plan to do that and think you can do that (will likely take months of focusing entirely on the exam and working with a tutor/etc), then you could embark down that road. But personally I dont think its realistic and I would urge you to just apply now. Get in somewhere, and focus all your efforts from day 1 of med school to kill step1. Step1 is a great equalizer and if you do well on that and in med school, all career paths will be open to you.
I also couldnt disagree more with this post-almost every high scorer I knew took at least 9-10 practice full lengths before the real deal. This is the standard advice for people looking to hit very high scores. There is a significant correlation with # of practice questions done and your score on the real deal. Why would you not give it your all on such an important exam?
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jessicajonesharvard
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I took like 15+ fl tests... mcat is hard af
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Ummm so it hasn't been mentioned, but isn't this crazy remarkable for a pre-med?? Like I'm not an adcom, but at least me personally I'd feel like that publication record + Harvard pedigree + the 3.9 would still give OP a very good chance at a top 20 school (might not be JHU, Harvard, etc. but still)
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To your first point, it is not defeatist/pessimistic. It is realistic. You say OP should not have taken the test unless they were 520 material. You speak as though anyone can be 520 material. A 520 is not simply from hard and studious diligence. OP took multiple practice tests, indicating that they at least put in their due diligence and OP did not break the barrier, and yet they still performed at a high-but-not-high-enough level. A student should definitely set goals that are reflective of their capabilities. But OP has demonstrated that the amount of effort they were willing to give and their performance is not reflective of their initial judgement of their capabilities. OP still performed well enough to get in to a lot of places, but they need to do a cost-benefit analysis and be truly reflective of their ability.
To your second point, I merely have my own anecdotal evidence but I took only the AAMC materials and have yielded >518 average. Only 4 needed to evaluate that I am doing just fine. I would argue that the higher value is not taking full length practice tests but in analysis of AAMC reasoning. 3rd party scores don’t mean anything and are wildly inaccurate and, for many, purchasing more than AAMC is an impossibility due to the price barrier.
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I guess to each their own...I plateau North of 518 BYU third practice test. I think the discrepancy between content and quality of the 3rd party exams and the real deal drives people to feel they need to take more. They give you an artificially low score to scare you in to purchasing more.
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Do not retake a 515. You studied hard at Harvard, got a great GPA, did great research and EC's. Everyone has a relatively weak point (or two) in their application. Yours will likely be your MCAT (and yours is still very good!)
You are a very good candidate for medical school.
You only need to get into one school that is a good fit for you. This is not about trophy-collecting (seeing how many schools you can get into...)
With a 515, and ORM, you might not get into as many Top schools as someone with a 524, but with your profile, you should have a good application cycle if you follow Goro's advice. Fine if you add a couple more dream schools - especially if they are a good fit with your research bc of mentors there etc, as you may get some II's at more T20 schools bc of your research prowess and publications in high impact journals.
You are a very good candidate for medical school.
You only need to get into one school that is a good fit for you. This is not about trophy-collecting (seeing how many schools you can get into...)
With a 515, and ORM, you might not get into as many Top schools as someone with a 524, but with your profile, you should have a good application cycle if you follow Goro's advice. Fine if you add a couple more dream schools - especially if they are a good fit with your research bc of mentors there etc, as you may get some II's at more T20 schools bc of your research prowess and publications in high impact journals.
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PentuPenguin
PerryThePlatypus
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Do not retake it. First, there is a risk involved. If you go down, you go down and some schools will see that. If you go up, cool but some schools might interpret you as a perfectionist. Third, you have a stellar GPA from an amazing undergrad where I am sure you took advantage of vast opportunities. I went to an Ivy for undergrad, had a lower MCAT than yours and way lower GPA than yours, and made it to a med school with higher MCAT and GPA medians (barely making it to the 10th percentile for some metrics but not all according to MSAR, even as an international). Point being, at this stage what will differentiate you is how you engaged with your activities, your story, your capacity to reflect on your journey, and so on. Congrats, you've done well on the metrics part of the challenge, move on and focus on reflecting on your experiences and activities and articulating them wisely
If you believe you can get 520+ on a retake, you should definitely retake, but it will be a big gamble.
515(33) vs. 520(37) is a mile apart IMO in term of your chances of getting into a top20 school. But retake for a 518 (35) is not wise IMO.
515(33) vs. 520(37) is a mile apart IMO in term of your chances of getting into a top20 school. But retake for a 518 (35) is not wise IMO.
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No, don’t retake if you think you can land a solid 520+. There is a high likelihood that you will not, even if you think you can. Take what you have, an already good score, and apply.
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Oh, how much I'd be willing to donate 5 of my MCAT score for one of your pubs!
BTW once you get to interview, there's no real difference b/w a 515 and a 528
BTW once you get to interview, there's no real difference b/w a 515 and a 528
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Retaking a 515 is a big risk too, you’ll need to certainly go up to at least a 518. I suggest OP just applies with what he’s got, but don’t shoot higher than T20-10. I bet he’ll get a lot of interviews being from Harvard but then a lot of waitlists with a few acceptances. Nothing wrong with that imo.
Retaking a 515 is a big risk too, you’ll need to certainly go up to at least a 518. I suggest OP just applies with what he’s got, but don’t shoot higher than T20-10. I bet he’ll get a lot of interviews being from Harvard but then a lot of waitlists with a few acceptances. Nothing wrong with that imo.
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Patently incorrect. Stats are always considered. The acceptance committee is not the same as the interview committee at any school, so it’s a fresh set of eyes looking at your app.
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deleted938090
OP just happens to be someone with that background. The number of yung H grads with pubs in Science, NEJM, PLOS is pretty small. Also hearsay is UCSF/Harvard likes to "collect" people so this may be one of these cases.
Really tough call whether to retake, especially with OP's goals in mind. Retaking a 515 for a 518 will look unspectacular, even petty. Currently 515 puts one on the edge for top institutions, but there are plenty of other good institutions, too.
Yeah I really think OP should just play the hand he's delt right now. So many people retake the mcat, yet so many others only take it once. I think a one-time 515 could do him well at the T30-20 schools, along with all the other stuff in his app.
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It is crazy remarkable, but med schools aren't looking for grad students either. A number of the schools in my list are "Top 20", which actually includes some 30 schools.
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Your current application package is already more than good enough to get you into an excellent medical school with a very strong research focus. Your publications are very impressive, and when combined with your numbers -- But I'd have to agree with @efle that your MCAT could very well knock an Asian guy out of contention at the very tippy-top schools. The way I see it, your options are:
- Go "all in" and retake, knowing that:
- You'll need to score extremely well. A 520+ is what you'll need to get where you want to go. A 518 won't help you at all and anything < 515 will really hurt you. (It'll paint you as a guy who chokes on big tests.)
- Some (many?) will judge you for re-taking a 515, regardless of the outcome. You will need to explain your reasons for retaking in a way that doesn't seem arrogant.
- "Settle" for a Pitt or Case-level school. (Do understand though that retaking a 515 tells Pitt that you consider them "settling"...)
- Leverage your Harvard connections.
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I don’t think retaking and getting a 520 helps you much to be honest. Top schools have their pick of the litter, you already scored >90th percentile. If you get a 520 on a retake I don’t think that changes your app enough that they would change their mind about whether or not they want you.
I agree with trying to leverage your connections. I understand that you worked hard and want to go to a top school, but honestly be happy with going to a darn good US MD school.
I agree with trying to leverage your connections. I understand that you worked hard and want to go to a top school, but honestly be happy with going to a darn good US MD school.
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Makes sense! And I thought your list was good. I was just kinda surprised others seemed to be writing off OPs chances.
And OP I doubt you will face any barriers matching a competitive program coming from 'only' a Pitt, Case, etc. level school. (Heck people do it regularly from my low-tier state school)
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If you plan on retaking, you need to be consistently scoring north of 523 on practice tests. Anything less is quite risky. Good luck!
I dont think I mentioned rankings once in my post, besides referencing what the op himself had set as his goal. So idk what you’re talkin about honestly.
It’s great you did well doing only 3 practice fl’s. Most premeds are not you.
Cute quote. You do well by wanting something, setting a goal, and then working hard to achieve it. You just don’t say screw it, I’ll just take the mcat today, walk in take it, and then magically do well on it.
It’s really terrible advice to tell a premed to not give everything they possibly have into doing well on the mcat, and people who give this type of advice should be ashamed of themselves.
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Depends on your personal goals. I probably put in 50% effort with studying because 518 is good’nuff and I have more important things to do. Would 100% effort likely yield a 524+ score? Eeyup, but time with family was more important in my book.
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Retake if you’re very confident you can score a 518 or higher. I think your app is definitely competitive for top 20 as is. If you want to break into the T5 you’ll most likely need a higher mcat score, but I’d say you have *a not insignificant* chance as is given your research accolades
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I got into HMS with a 515 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Is Kaiser prioritizing California residents?
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Not that I know of, but there are a lot of talented Californians who simply want to stay in CA. A LOT
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Understandably so. Of the 20 some schools schools in or west of the Rockies, 2/3 of them are in California...
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Well, 30 total school, 13 in CA! That's a LOT
Keck
CNU
Kaiser
CalUMed
Loma Linda
Touro CA
Western
UCSD
UCI
UCD
UCR
UCLA
UCSF
U WA
WSU
ORHS
Western OR
PacNW
ICOM
UNLV
UNR
Touro-CA
U AZ (2x)
AZCOM
SOMA
BCOM
U NM
U UT
RVU-UT
My point with the quote is that your goals seem to have shifted from "being a great clinician/scientist/whatever" to "going to a T10 medical school".
To put it a different way, you don't become a great clinician by going to a T10 medical school. You become a great clinician by working your ass off and seeing where your hard work takes you.
What tangible difference will going to Pitt/Case/Baylor over UPenn have on your career, other than your mom will be disappointed that it's not Ivy League? by retaking a high MCAT, OP is losing sight of their (presumed) original goal of being a great clinician.
On the other hand, maybe your goal was to never be a great clinician, and you just want a name brand degree. In that case, I don't really have any advice.
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I guess the ratio of California schools goes down when you add in the DO schools, my bad thank you for clarifying. Even still, that means that there are almost half of the schools in the west being in CA...That is a lot.
On separate note, I organized for ICOM to come present/send a recruiter to my undergrad. For a new school, they did not disappoint. This gal set up an Instagram, Facebook, ICOM Snapchat...No joke, she brought stress-ball potatoes that had QR codes printed on them that sent you to their website. High speed.
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To OP, why go Harvard when you can go to a school with QR code potatoes? Think hard about your decisions.
