You guessed it! Another SOAP-related question/thread?

Residency Personal Statement
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thats an impossible number..been a frustrating day. anyone else?
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Nevermind, found the answer to my question
 
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Magician19 said:
This soap is such a fail system...i just talk to anther PD and scary thing.
Most programs dont even know how the soap will work. This particular PD thought we also make ranking of offers. He got terrified when i said i can only accept/reject offers.

Then he told me they got about 2000 applications. Its a mess. They are still reviewing. I wouldnt worry if you dont get a call today. They may still be calls tomorrow am.
Whoever came out with this messy system ?

I just want this to be over. This is beyond frustrating.
I keep everyone here in my prayers. Hopefully you all match.
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The prior system, where there were no rules and no organization, wasn't much better. The only part of it that was better was that it was over much faster. Basically, the unfilled list came out at noon and if you didn't have a spot by 2PM, that was it. Needless to say, it was all driven by how lucky you were to get a phone call in to a program in time.

This system drags the process out over a much longer time frame - whether that's "good" or "bad" depends on your viewpoint. There is no question in my view that it gives much more control to the applicants. If you're going to get offers, you'll have a choice between them. If you're not going to get any offers, it probably doesn't matter which system is used.
 
A PD I talked to today also told me that he got about 2000 applications (I wonder if it is the same program). This was for IM.
 
slim78 said:
A PD I talked to today also told me that he got about 2000 applications (I wonder if it is the same program). This was for IM.
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maybe it makes sense, given the very few IM-Cat spots.

Based on past stats, it seems just about 10% of us will soap (compare to ~42% IMGs and ~92% AMGs "matching").
 
Those of you that have had some contact with PD's, can you specify which fields you were applying to? I applied to Rads/ anes/ prelim surgery.

I only received 1 email from a Anes PD last night. No other contact thus far
 
slim78 said:
A PD I talked to today also told me that he got about 2000 applications (I wonder if it is the same program). This was for IM.
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then definitely not the same program...wonder if all 2000people trying to match are applying everywhere they can...i stuck to my specialty of choice...i can't imagine doing anything else which is adding to my stress in this process...:scared:
 
aProgDirector said:
The prior system, where there were no rules and no organization, wasn't much better. The only part of it that was better was that it was over much faster. Basically, the unfilled list came out at noon and if you didn't have a spot by 2PM, that was it. Needless to say, it was all driven by how lucky you were to get a phone call in to a program in time.

This system drags the process out over a much longer time frame - whether that's "good" or "bad" depends on your viewpoint. There is no question in my view that it gives much more control to the applicants. If you're going to get offers, you'll have a choice between them. If you're not going to get any offers, it probably doesn't matter which system is used.
Click to expand...
I wonder if this new system benefits unmatched AMG's at the expense of IMG/FMG's, Reason being is that many if not most PD's can now screen their applicants versus accepting whatever comes their way and I wonder if the first sorting criteria is AMG versus IMG/FMG. I imagine that PD would prefer to fill their unfilled spots by known unmatched applicants coming from American medical schools simply for the purpose of advertising. I surmise this of course but I'd be curious to see the stats and percentages of applicants going unmatched this year and last year and see how the proportion of that is AMG vs IMG/FMG. I know that for one I've gotten more love in terms of SOAP interviews for categorical positions now that a whole chunk of AMG's have been eliminated from the applicant pool after first match.
 
absolutproof said:
I wonder if this new system benefits unmatched AMG's at the expense of IMG/FMG's
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There is no question that it does. Every aspect of the american residency system favors AMGs at the expense of IMG/FMGs.
 
Dirt said:
There is no question that it does. Every aspect of the american residency system favors AMGs at the expense of IMG/FMGs.
Click to expand...

By the same token, if more IMGs got in, it would be ''at the expense of '' AMGs and then they would have reason to cry foul.

I think it understood that if an AMG's and an IMG's application are level, the AMG would get the spot. For as long as it is right to have nations, this will be right.
 
Dirt said:
There is no question that it does. Every aspect of the american residency system favors AMGs at the expense of IMG/FMGs.
Click to expand...

Just in case anyone reading this is unaware...
AMG - American Medical Graduate - LCME accredited schools
IMG - International Medical Graduate - US citizen (many do clinicals in US)
FMG - Foreign Medical Graduate - Foreign trained, foreign citizen

I'm a US citizen IMG from the midwest. I would agree that the residency selection process favors AMG's over IMG's/FMG's. And perhaps it should be this way. If the American medical schools would have appropriately answered the call to increase training numbers over the last 20-30 years as they were asked, we would've never encountered the IMG debacle to begin with. Imagine how different things would be. Many of us that went the IMG route would have found a place in a US medical school, rather than going to an off-shore school and being ridiculed for it.

I think many of my fellow IMG's can relate when I say that I had absolutely NO IDEA what I was getting myself into when I went to the Caribbean for medical school. It was nuts. Thankfully, I matched and it all worked out alright. I cannot say the same for many of my kind. It is a ridiculously more difficult path to getting into residency, in addition to disgustingly expensive. Since yesterday, I've been ecstatic, because my risky Caribbean endeavor paid off in the end. Oh, how things could've turned out so differently, yikes! There we so many things about the IMG process that were aggravating.

What a weird predicament our profession has gotten itself into by not producing enough MD graduates to fill the general demand. I think the playing field is finally being corrected as US schools increase enrollment. I do believe that by about 2020-2030, IMG's will be about phased out. IMG's are already starting to feel the crunch, it's only going to get more and more difficult to get spots. It's only going to get worse. And since pre-matching is no longer allowed for IMG's starting with the 2013 application cycle (next year), it will be interesting to see how things change.

As for FMG's, I hope they have post-graduate training available in their home countries, because that's going to continue to get tougher as well.

In retrospect, I'm not sure I'd go the IMG route again. I'm so thankful that it worked out.
 
MedicalMoose said:
Just in case anyone reading this is unaware...
AMG - American Medical Graduate - LCME accredited schools
IMG - International Medical Graduate - US citizen (many do clinicals in US)
FMG - Foreign Medical Graduate - Foreign trained, foreign citizen
Click to expand...

I think IMG and FMG are actually synonymous. The NRMP distinguishes between "US IMG" and normal IMG in their documents.

And yes, Caribbean schools are an expensive scam. Glad it worked out for you, but with new schools opening up in the US no one should risk it if they're starting now.
 
MedicalMoose said:
Just in case anyone reading this is unaware...
AMG - American Medical Graduate - LCME accredited schools
IMG - International Medical Graduate - US citizen (many do clinicals in US)
FMG - Foreign Medical Graduate - Foreign trained, foreign citizen

I'm a US citizen IMG from the midwest. I would agree that the residency selection process favors AMG's over IMG's/FMG's. And perhaps it should be this way. If the American medical schools would have appropriately answered the call to increase training numbers over the last 20-30 years as they were asked, we would've never encountered the IMG debacle to begin with. Imagine how different things would be. Many of us that went the IMG route would have found a place in a US medical school, rather than going to an off-shore school and being ridiculed for it.

I think many of my fellow IMG's can relate when I say that I had absolutely NO IDEA what I was getting myself into when I went to the Caribbean for medical school. It was nuts. Thankfully, I matched and it all worked out alright. I cannot say the same for many of my kind. It is a ridiculously more difficult path to getting into residency, in addition to disgustingly expensive. Since yesterday, I've been ecstatic, because my risky Caribbean endeavor paid off in the end. Oh, how things could've turned out so differently, yikes! There we so many things about the IMG process that were aggravating.

What a weird predicament our profession has gotten itself into by not producing enough MD graduates to fill the general demand. I think the playing field is finally being corrected as US schools increase enrollment. I do believe that by about 2020-2030, IMG's will be about phased out. IMG's are already starting to feel the crunch, it's only going to get more and more difficult to get spots. It's only going to get worse. And since pre-matching is no longer allowed for IMG's starting with the 2013 application cycle (next year), it will be interesting to see how things change.

As for FMG's, I hope they have post-graduate training available in their home countries, because that's going to continue to get tougher as well.

In retrospect, I'm not sure I'd go the IMG route again. I'm so thankful that it worked out.
Click to expand...

IMG = FMG

That's great and all and I'm teary eyed for you while clapping my hands and clicking my heels, spectacular. Great topic and we can leave that to a debate, but uhmm...

This is a SOAP forum, buddy. You're in a totally wrong zone with people who don't want to hear your "lookit me, I matched!" horse dung. Unless you have details specific about the SOAP and are stressing out with the rest of us, post here. If not, this isn't the place for you. Okay, done. Breathe...


Like many people here, I applied to many FM & IM spots. Absolutely no contacts. I agree with the person that brought up this point: almost all programs are contacting the same 100-200 applicants. It's easy to add lots of descriptive adjectives at this point, but let's not. So in conclusion.... dyspepsia, irritable bowel syndrome, urinary frequency, eye twitching, starvation, and insomnia for more days to come, yes? Love how this new "SOAP" strategy fixed ALL of our problems. Fantastic work. I'll serve you guys at McDonald's in July. With a smile. :) Better order them Happy Meals.
 
Dirt said:
There is no question that it does. Every aspect of the american residency system favors AMGs at the expense of IMG/FMGs.
Click to expand...

Yet, speaking for my country and a fair share i also know of, hardly any country on this green earth plays as "fairly" as the US and allows foreigners to play in a close to equal ground. Half of europe simply fills quotas because you're a national, then a european, then a former/current colony, screw the rest.

Yet, as the graduate gap closes in the US, this may all change drastically.
 
Like many people here, I applied to many FM & IM spots. Absolutely no contacts. I agree with the person that brought up this point: almost all programs are contacting the same 100-200 applicants. It's easy to add lots of descriptive adjectives at this point, but let's not. So in conclusion.... dyspepsia, irritable bowel syndrome, urinary frequency, eye twitching, starvation, and insomnia for more days to come, yes? Love how this new "SOAP" strategy fixed ALL of our problems. Fantastic work. I'll serve you guys at McDonald's in July. With a smile. Better order them Happy Meals.
Click to expand...

If all the programs are contacting ~200 AMGs for ~1100 unfilled spots, that still leaves you in good shape with plenty of spots after the first round of offers go out. I hope you at least have good USMLE scores to set you apart.
 
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Endart said:
If all the programs are contacting ~200 AMGs for ~1100 unfilled spots, that still leaves you in good shape with plenty of spots after the first round of offers go out. I hope you at least have good USMLE scores to set you apart.
Click to expand...

Wow, where have you been?

We're not talking about all 1100 unfilled spots here, we're simply talking about Family Medicine or Internal Medicine categoricals since that's what majority of the applicants are going for. So when we say the same 100-200 applicants are being contacted by all the programs - we're referring to simply what the majority is applying for, which is Family Medicine and Internal Medicine.

And you really think USMLE scores are an issue at this point? Again, where HAVE you been!? I don't want to get into this again because this isn't the forum for it - this process is prioritized to maximize job placements for AMGs. That's the simple truth.
 
RooRooBears said:
IMG = FMG

That's great and all and I'm teary eyed for you while clapping my hands and clicking my heels, spectacular. Great topic and we can leave that to a debate, but uhmm...

This is a SOAP forum, buddy. You're in a totally wrong zone with people who don't want to hear your "lookit me, I matched!" horse dung. Unless you have details specific about the SOAP and are stressing out with the rest of us, post here. If not, this isn't the place for you. Okay, done. Breathe...
Click to expand...

My sincere apologies. We got on the topic of SOAP perhaps being more conducive to AMG's as opposed to IMG's/FMG's (or USIMG/IMG if you prefer) and I added my own thoughts on the matter.

I've been done with school for quite some time. I didn't match last year either. I've been working as a limited radiographer for a long time and my MD has been useless until now. So yes, been there, done that... and it sucks!

Again, sorry to upset anyone. Hang in there... Keep your mind clear and hope for the best. Try to stay optimistic (easier said than done).
 
absolutproof said:
I wonder if this new system benefits unmatched AMG's at the expense of IMG/FMG's, Reason being is that many if not most PD's can now screen their applicants versus accepting whatever comes their way and I wonder if the first sorting criteria is AMG versus IMG/FMG. I imagine that PD would prefer to fill their unfilled spots by known unmatched applicants coming from American medical schools simply for the purpose of advertising. I surmise this of course but I'd be curious to see the stats and percentages of applicants going unmatched this year and last year and see how the proportion of that is AMG vs IMG/FMG. I know that for one I've gotten more love in terms of SOAP interviews for categorical positions now that a whole chunk of AMG's have been eliminated from the applicant pool after first match.
Click to expand...

I can see where you say the new match favors the AMG because the PD now has the time tom screen applicants. By saying this you make it sound as if the IMG got in by chance with the prior scramble. So it seems like the soap is actually fair since programs have the time to see all the applicants and choose who they want not be pressured into taking the "first lucky" person who called in the previous scramble. Also if they favor AMG it kind of makes sense because it is an American residency match.
 
I'm sorry to say but I agree with CPmustangs.

Perhaps because as I am right now, as an unmatched graduate of an American Medical College, I'd like to think priority for jobs is given to US educated medical students. We are the ones with medical school loans from the US government (and private for some) to pay back. I'm seeing a lot of IMG complaining about how unfair the new SOAP is in giving preference to AMG but I'm sorry I can't sympathize. There are other ways SOAP is unfair but I think preference to AMG over IMG (regardless of matched credentials or even far more superior credentials by IMG) is appropriate.
 
Endart said:
If all the programs are contacting ~200 AMGs for ~1100 unfilled spots, that still leaves you in good shape with plenty of spots after the first round of offers go out. I hope you at least have good USMLE scores to set you apart.
Click to expand...

I do have decent USMLE scores, and it would probably help me a lot, if my USLME transcrpit would have been transmitted to more than 5 programs.
 
RooRooBears said:
Wow, where have you been?

We're not talking about all 1100 unfilled spots here, we're simply talking about Family Medicine or Internal Medicine categoricals since that's what majority of the applicants are going for. So when we say the same 100-200 applicants are being contacted by all the programs - we're referring to simply what the majority is applying for, which is Family Medicine and Internal Medicine.

And you really think USMLE scores are an issue at this point? Again, where HAVE you been!? I don't want to get into this again because this isn't the forum for it - this process is prioritized to maximize job placements for AMGs. That's the simple truth.
Click to expand...

Well I apologize for being ignorant, and if you were sold a bill of goods when you decided to do IMG. All I can say is best of luck to you.
 
RooRooBears said:
IMG = FMG

That's great and all and I'm teary eyed for you while clapping my hands and clicking my heels, spectacular. Great topic and we can leave that to a debate, but uhmm...

This is a SOAP forum, buddy. You're in a totally wrong zone with people who don't want to hear your "lookit me, I matched!" horse dung. Unless you have details specific about the SOAP and are stressing out with the rest of us, post here. If not, this isn't the place for you. Okay, done. Breathe...


Like many people here, I applied to many FM & IM spots. Absolutely no contacts. I agree with the person that brought up this point: almost all programs are contacting the same 100-200 applicants. It's easy to add lots of descriptive adjectives at this point, but let's not. So in conclusion.... dyspepsia, irritable bowel syndrome, urinary frequency, eye twitching, starvation, and insomnia for more days to come, yes? Love how this new "SOAP" strategy fixed ALL of our problems. Fantastic work. I'll serve you guys at McDonald's in July. With a smile. :) Better order them Happy Meals.
Click to expand...
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

lolz. I've been seriously stressed out but you totally made my day!
 
@ Sophie: I'm a "US citizen IMG" and agree with you, CP, and Moose in regards to this process prioritizing AMGs as it should. But you're misinformed if you think AMGs are the only ones that have US government/private loans. I owe Sallie Mae more than $200,000. Can we get off this topic and get back to SOAP-relevant info? I guess we certainly will in a couple hours.

@ EndArt: They sold themselves, alright. Those bastards...

@ MrBigLips: Glad it helped let off some steam! lol
 
soap is more fair than scramble.
its a known fact PD's prefer AMGs, high USMLE step scores, non-visa requiring foreign grads. That's always at the top of their preferences when they fill out those surveys.

with the SOAP, it allows the PD to select what THEY prefer. Previously in the scramble it was first come first serve and if you had crappy scores from a crappy institution you still had a decent chance at getting into a slot if you called the program first and had all your paperwork ready.
 
sophie tran said:
I'm sorry to say but I agree with CPmustangs.

Perhaps because as I am right now, as an unmatched graduate of an American Medical College, I'd like to think priority for jobs is given to US educated medical students. We are the ones with medical school loans from the US government (and private for some) to pay back. I'm seeing a lot of IMG complaining about how unfair the new SOAP is in giving preference to AMG but I'm sorry I can't sympathize. There are other ways SOAP is unfair but I think preference to AMG over IMG (regardless of matched credentials or even far more superior credentials by IMG) is appropriate.
Click to expand...

I am from AUC. I get the same loans from the same government that you do. I've worked my butt off to get good scores because I know I am at a disadvantage in applications, which I do not believe is fair. "far more superior credentials" should be trumped by a mediocre student with a label of AMG. give me a break, jabroni.
 
This is what I was afraid of...

Now that we've cleared up a few points... let's remind each other that we're all going through a very stressful process and the problem we're all having stems from a very different source (if you get my point, but I won't outright say it because I don't want people dressed in SWAT gear breaking into my house).

Let's not do this AMG vs IMG 'blame game' thing. Let's get back on the page with supporting each other and putting out 'live' facts of the SOAP. Here, I'll help...

On another forum, someone posted that the initial 30 programs stay valid & confirmed it with ERAS.
 
@ a lot of you who replied to me. I'm sorry I offended you guys. Obviously my comment was ignorant to those more familiar about international (caribbean?) medical schools regarding loans and such. I didn't know. When I said "far more superior credentials" I meant in reply to foreign grads who say they have had more training (or have practiced) in their home countries and so should be considered over new US citizen graduates. Comment (ignorantly made) was with less regard to board scores and grades. I do think US citizen IMG (with same gov't loans) should be on same playing field with AMG (with same gov't loans).

Everyone is stressed I'm sure, sorry to have added to it with my comments. There will be no more from me. Good luck everybody.
 
FU**!

Don't know how much more likely it will be for me to get some calls during the 2nd round, considering I didn't get any the 1st round.

wtf we gonna do if we don't get anything this week?
 
No interviews this season, no calls in last two days, no offers so far....it sucks guys...I really feel so hopeless and worthless at this time..am totally clueless abt how to proceed if nothing works..
 
^^ same exact sentiments here! =/
 
im not freaking out like i was yesterday/the day before. mind is just totally blank. not sure what to think/do.
 
ya i had 1 interview but lost the prematch position. my phone is quiet the last two days except when my mom called from another state and i almost had a heart attack. looking grim...
 
Prozac. Yes please. Beta blockers. Yes please. Anti-psychotics. Yes please.
 
Time for some tough love guys.

If you haven't been interviewed yet, you're almost certainly not going to match.

Try to identify what your major weaknesses were and see if you can change any of them if you reapply. Also keep your eye out for out-of-cycle spots and additional spots available after SOAP.

Not saying you should give up on SOAP now, but you should expect disappointment.
 
johnnydrama said:
Time for some tough love guys.

If you haven't been interviewed yet, you're almost certainly not going to match.

Try to identify what your major weaknesses were and see if you can change any of them if you reapply. Also keep your eye out for out-of-cycle spots and additional spots available after SOAP.

Not saying you should give up on SOAP now, but you should expect disappointment.
Click to expand...

how do we keep our eye out for out of cycle spots? will these be published anywhere?
 
There are websites like residentswap, and also there is a forum for this on SDN. I'm sure there are other resources, some may be speialty specific.
 
I really hope I can get any prelim spot in surgery. Considering I matched into an advanced position I thought I would have better luck with a prelim position. I still can't imagine not getting a prelim surgery by Friday. I'm willing to go anywhere to do it cause I am not giving up the place I matched at. Gotta stay positive.
 
Kind of feel like the music band on the Titanic: just remaining calm as the ship is going down. Almost peaceful, actually.
 
bacteroides said:
how do we keep our eye out for out of cycle spots? will these be published anywhere?
Click to expand...

https://services.aamc.org/findaresident/

AAMC maintains the above site and they have some unfilled programs listed for folks in exactly your position. It's crap that you have to pay for a subscription, but it is probably worth it considering the circumstances. It updates all the time and will likely do so over the next couple weeks.

http://www.residentswap.org/how_it_works.php

This one isn't too bad either. They have a lot of non-PGY1 positions listed, but there will be some PGY1 spots on there.

There are some other sources that I've seen, but can't remember where to find them at the moment.

Even if SOAP doesn't pan out for you, don't give up looking. The chances of waiting a year are high, but there are still hailmary passes to be thrown.
 
shwin said:
anyone know the policy on contacting programs that arent participating in the SOAP? do we have to wait til friday at 5pm or can we start now? this line from NRMP is giving me some hesitation: "You may apply to unfilled programs only through ERAS" (http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/faq/us_seniors_faq.html#22D)
Click to expand...

I had the same question and contacted NRMP. They told me that we aren't allowed to contact ANY programs during match week. Simply put, NOBODY should be contacting any programs this week. We can contact anyone we want after Friday. Here their message:

"Non-SOAP participating programs that are indicated with red * in the Unfilled Programs List, may not contact applicants, nor be contacted by applicants about the filling of their positions until after the SOAP process conclude at 5:00 pm eastern time, Friday, March 16th."
 
For people with an advanced spot but no preliminary, your home institution or the institution for your advanced position may be able to help you out.

Even if they can't offer you a spot, they may be able to let you know about openings before they become public.

Good luck.
 
glad i could help! ok please excuse me while i go barf again and walk to the bathroom with this IV connected to me... this anxiety is killer
 
I'm so sad. I matched in advanced and only had one phone interview for a preliminary. Crazy feeling that I'm so close yet so far. I wish I would have ranked my categorical programs first, I didn't realize it would be like this. I actually had a prelim in the bag but I didn't even rank it because I was arrogant and thought that I wanted a better location and I should just do SOAP to get it. I really didn't think SOAP for a prelim medicine spot would be this bad. I bet my advanced program is going to be annoyed that they have a spot missing.

Well, I think I'm going to just take a year off and try to do something productive. Might actually be a good thing in the long run. At least I don't think my year off is a redflag next application because I really did match just was stupid about the prelim positions.


Good luck to everyone, I'm resigning. Gonna go for a run and contemplate how I'm going to enjoy the rest of 4th year.

P.S. I'm annoyed at Anesthesia people or RADS that take up Prelim-Med. I feel like it should be reserved for neuro because we actually need it and can't do anything else.
 
NeuroGunner said:
P.S. I'm annoyed at Anesthesia people or RADS that take up Prelim-Med. I feel like it should be reserved for neuro because we actually need it and can't do anything else.
Click to expand...

Considering you were arrogant and didn't rank prelims, you have no one to blame for being in this situation but yourself.

Talk to your program, they may be able to help you.
 
NeuroGunner said:
P.S. I'm annoyed at Anesthesia people or RADS that take up Prelim-Med. I feel like it should be reserved for neuro because we actually need it and can't do anything else.
Click to expand...


Don't hate the players, hate the game. Most of the rads kids I know (and a few of the anesthesia folks) hate having to do a prelim year, but it's just how things are.
 
MedicalMoose said:
https://services.aamc.org/findaresident/

AAMC maintains the above site and they have some unfilled programs listed for folks in exactly your position. It's crap that you have to pay for a subscription, but it is probably worth it considering the circumstances. It updates all the time and will likely do so over the next couple weeks.

http://www.residentswap.org/how_it_works.php

This one isn't too bad either. They have a lot of non-PGY1 positions listed, but there will be some PGY1 spots on there.

There are some other sources that I've seen, but can't remember where to find them at the moment.

Even if SOAP doesn't pan out for you, don't give up looking. The chances of waiting a year are high, but there are still hailmary passes to be thrown.
Click to expand...
Which one of those 2 websites is "better / more reliable"? The 1st one requires your SSN, Address, School name, degree date, etc for registration. The 2nd site simply requires your First and Last name for registration.

The 1st link seems to ask for WAY more personal info.
 
RooRooBears said:
I had the same question and contacted NRMP. They told me that we aren't allowed to contact ANY programs during match week. Simply put, NOBODY should be contacting any programs this week. We can contact anyone we want after Friday. Here their message:

"Non-SOAP participating programs that are indicated with red * in the Unfilled Programs List, may not contact applicants, nor be contacted by applicants about the filling of their positions until after the SOAP process conclude at 5:00 pm eastern time, Friday, March 16th."
Click to expand...

Most non SOAP programs were already filled at 5pm. They were downloading applications during the week. 5pm Friday everyone is gone for the weekend. IDK how they were filled already by 5pm.
 
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