Your undergraduate school DOES matter

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pillowbug

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I've been looking through these forums a lot and it seems like this question comes up a lot. I see a lot of advice that says to go to the school that will give you the best grades.

I thought I would just share some experience from the other side of the story. I would highly highly highly suggest that any high school student interested in dentistry go to an ivy league school or another highly prestigious institution if they are accepted. First, you get an amazing education and all ivy league schools offer tremendous financial aid. I go to school almost for free. Second, you will have a much higher chance of acceptance to a good dental school without needing the stats that other applicants have.

Admissions officers WILL be impressed if you go to a top university, and yes, it is often enough to slide by with mediocre GPAs and DAT scores. Where I go to school, all pre-dental students applying in the cycle are brought together for a pre-dental meeting. The pre-health advisors tell us straight up that if our GPAs are above a 3.0 (science and overall) and if we get 18 or above on every section of the DAT (which is about average) then we will have absolutely no trouble getting in. In the history of our school, anyone with stats like I listed above have been accepted. A 3.0 GPA at a hard university with grade deflation looks way better than a 3.8 at most other colleges. Admissions officers know this. Lots of people on this forum try to deny it. It is never an accident that someone was accepted by such a competitive university and this trumps the DAT - which makes sense, since it is almost ridiculous that ONE exam holds so much weight.

Even more important, having higher stats are almost a guaranteed acceptance at your top choice. A vast majority of our students go to their top choice universities. We were told a 3.4 GPA and a DAT of 21(AA) solidifies the application. Usually 15-20 students apply each cycle, and 80% are accepted and choose to attend Columbia, Harvard, or Penn. The rest usually choose their state school. Again, it is super rare to not get accepted.

If you have the opportunity to go to an ivy league, do not pass it up because you are worried about a low GPA. The school can only help you. You will have an amazing educational experience and still get into dental school.

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I've been looking through these forums a lot and it seems like this question comes up a lot. I see a lot of advice that says to go to the school that will give you the best grades.

I thought I would just share some experience from the other side of the story. I would highly highly highly suggest that any high school student interested in dentistry go to an ivy league school or another highly prestigious institution if they are accepted. First, you get an amazing education and all ivy league schools offer tremendous financial aid. I go to school almost for free. Second, you will have a much higher chance of acceptance to a good dental school without needing the stats that other applicants have.

Admissions officers WILL be impressed if you go to a top university, and yes, it is often enough to slide by with mediocre GPAs and DAT scores. Where I go to school, all pre-dental students applying in the cycle are brought together for a pre-dental meeting. The pre-health advisors tell us straight up that if our GPAs are above a 3.0 (science and overall) and if we get 18 or above on every section of the DAT (which is about average) then we will have absolutely no trouble getting in. In the history of our school, anyone with stats like I listed above have been accepted. A 3.0 GPA at a hard university with grade deflation looks way better than a 3.8 at most other colleges. Admissions officers know this. Lots of people on this forum try to deny it. It is never an accident that someone was accepted by such a competitive university and this trumps the DAT - which makes sense, since it is almost ridiculous that ONE exam holds so much weight.

Even more important, having higher stats are almost a guaranteed acceptance at your top choice. A vast majority of our students go to their top choice universities. We were told a 3.4 GPA and a DAT of 21(AA) solidifies the application. Usually 15-20 students apply each cycle, and 80% are accepted and choose to attend Columbia, Harvard, or Penn. The rest usually choose their state school. Again, it is super rare to not get accepted.

If you have the opportunity to go to an ivy league, do not pass it up because you are worried about a low GPA. The school can only help you. You will have an amazing educational experience and still get into dental school.
so could you disclose what undergrad school you went to?
 
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Good luck getting into Columbia, Harvard or Penn with a 21 AA and a 3.4 lol...
 
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Respectfully, I disagreee.
 
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unless you know the composition of each and every application among your peers that got into these competitive dental schools, you are not qualified to make that statement, even if you do go to an ivy league school.
 
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Is this a paid advertisement? Let's hope the applicant pool at your school is not very large.
 
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The commentary is welcomed, but the advice isn't very sound. Sounds like typical pre-health adviser drivel that's not up-to-par with the realities of dental school admissions.
 
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I know not everyone agrees, but I think it's important for high school students to think about. Friends of mine have gotten into Penn and Columbia with BELOW 21AA and 3.4 GPA, dbd. Well rounded students are desired. I think it's unfair that this forum advocates going to "easy" schools. Won't affect your admission to dental school in the long run.
 
If I had been a better student in high school and had the chance to go to an Ivy, I would have. But knowing what I know now, I wouldn't go to a non-prestigious school that is unnecessarily more difficult than another just to get an undergraduate degree. Either way, you should be trying your best no matter where you go. It's definitely not all about stats. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't aim high.
 
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Would you feel comfortable applying only to Harvard, Penn and Columbia with a 21AA and a 3.4 GPA? That's what you're implying. It's great that your friends have gotten in with those scores. But advocating to future pre-dental students that if they go to an Ivy League undergraduate school and shoot for those bare minimums, that they will get into those schools with those scores is pure bull****. I doubt the majority of the students from your school who got into their top choices only had a 21AA and 3.4. The student body who tend to choose those schools are highly motivated and highly intelligent. They got into their top choices because they did well in school and on their DATs. Don't think that they got into their dental schools because of the name of their undergraduate institution. You're in fricking la-la-land if you think that the name of your school can overcome mediocre stats.

Go to the best school that you can, it's definitely worth the money. I'm all for that. But don't think that just because you have that name on your application that you can have a low GPA and average DAT that all the schools will suddenly open their doors to you. That's pure BS. Go to an Ivy League school, but don't settle. That sort of lazy-ass mindset is infuriating.
 
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I know not everyone agrees, but I think it's important for high school students to think about. Friends of mine have gotten into Penn and Columbia with BELOW 21AA and 3.4 GPA, dbd. Well rounded students are desired. I think it's unfair that this forum advocates going to "easy" schools. Won't affect your admission to dental school in the long run.
Notwithstanding your expectation to find fairness in a pre dental forum, it must "fair" that, by your claim, less than qualified applicants are accepted into ds simply because they attended an Ivy League school.
 
i'm an undergraduate student at UOP and my college have a dental school. I talked to a counselor and she told me, the undergraduate play a small effect pf your admission but we still see which one have you attend, and how hard was it to get high than 3.5 GPA and she gave me an example that they will take some one with 3.5 GPA and 22 DAT from UC Berkeley rather than someone with 3.6 GPA 22 DAT. From an easy school like CSU (CA schools)


And i found two people from CSU Northridge who're currently attending UOP Dental school and they got accepted with 3.8 and 22 DAT , but on the other hand i found a girl from UCLA in the same class with 3.5 GPA and 22 DAT. I think she was accepted with this lower GPA because of the name of her college as the grades are on curve. But you can get accepted from an easy school like CSUN but you need a high GPA and DAT as it will be not that hard to get A in your class ?!
 
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I've been looking through these forums a lot and it seems like this question comes up a lot. I see a lot of advice that says to go to the school that will give you the best grades.

Let's get down to brass tacks here. This question DOESN'T come up alot.

All that matters is GPA, DAT, ECs, and shadowing. This is common knowledge. No one EVER asks that question.
 
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There are quite a few people who got in with a 3.4 and a 21AA into IVY league schools. Have you seen the ADEA 2014 book? Penn took people with sub 3.0s and columbia's average is a 3.5 and 22AA....which isn't very far off from a 3.4 and 21AA. **** happens and some admission officers connect with different applications....so pay attention to the RANGE of students accepted at these top schools. The results may surprise you.
 
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I have a friend that went to BCU ( Bethune Cookman University) HBCU in Florida.

Got into almost every school he applied to.
Goes to University of Florida currently for DS.

I have to disagree with this post.

Aslong as it is accredited you are fine.
 
i don't think anyone really says go to the "easier" one but more so the CHEAP one. No need to drop 40k/yr in undergrad. If you get financed/scholarships then why not go to a good school.
 
This is a joke right? Obviously a kid with a 3.5 at an ivy and a kid with a 3.5 at a no name school (everything else equal) don't have equal shots

Don't say a 3.0 ivy=3.8 no name school cause a lot of D schools score applicants based on points and factor In GPA,DAT, LOR, volunteering, instate, etc and get a combined score for each applicant. There's no point for "Ivy League student"
 
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i don't think anyone really says go to the "easier" one but more so the CHEAP one. No need to drop 40k/yr in undergrad. If you get financed/scholarships then why not go to a good school.

Very true, I know Dental School is expensive so I'm not going to add to the Debt by going to a Private school. I was accepted into an Ivy but decided to go to my state school for free. Way better deal and I don't have to worry about debt right now.
 
I am attending a prestigious school here in Texas, and I have asked the admission committee for the three dental schools about this. They simply answer that we do not discriminate anyone base on what university that she or he attends. Meaning, you can go to UT Dallas, Texas Tech, Rice, or UT Austin and they will treat you like every other applicant. This is the meaning of being fair. Also, comparing a 3.0 to a 3.8 is stupid in my opinion. You are literally comparing 90 hours of B's vs. 70 hours of A's and 20 hours of B's.
 
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I would say there's a larger discrepancy between state universities and community colleges
 
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Also keep in mind that not all Ivy's and top schools have grade deflation, famous example that the media likes to rip on is Harvard, which apparently suffers from grade inflation as a whole, I can't comment on whether this is true or not,

The best advice for everyone here is to really just focus on your school, grades, and application. Try to make the best out of it. Be proactive, go to office hours to clear up concepts, focus & rock the DAT.

We're all going to make it.
 
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The ONLY discrepancy. The education level at CC vs college is just too drastic.
 
I am attending a prestigious school here in Texas, and I have asked the admission committee for the three dental schools about this. They simply answer that we do not discriminate anyone base on what university that she or he attends. Meaning, you can go to UT Dallas, Texas Tech, Rice, or UT Austin and they will treat you like every other applicant. This is the meaning of being fair. Also, comparing a 3.0 to a 3.8 is stupid in my opinion. You are literally comparing 90 hours of B's vs. 70 hours of A's and 20 hours of B's.
"Prestigious school" in Texas?
 
UT -Austin is one of the original Public Ivies
 
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I've been looking through these forums a lot and it seems like this question comes up a lot. I see a lot of advice that says to go to the school that will give you the best grades.

I thought I would just share some experience from the other side of the story. I would highly highly highly suggest that any high school student interested in dentistry go to an ivy league school or another highly prestigious institution if they are accepted. First, you get an amazing education and all ivy league schools offer tremendous financial aid. I go to school almost for free. Second, you will have a much higher chance of acceptance to a good dental school without needing the stats that other applicants have.

Admissions officers WILL be impressed if you go to a top university, and yes, it is often enough to slide by with mediocre GPAs and DAT scores. Where I go to school, all pre-dental students applying in the cycle are brought together for a pre-dental meeting. The pre-health advisors tell us straight up that if our GPAs are above a 3.0 (science and overall) and if we get 18 or above on every section of the DAT (which is about average) then we will have absolutely no trouble getting in. In the history of our school, anyone with stats like I listed above have been accepted. A 3.0 GPA at a hard university with grade deflation looks way better than a 3.8 at most other colleges. Admissions officers know this. Lots of people on this forum try to deny it. It is never an accident that someone was accepted by such a competitive university and this trumps the DAT - which makes sense, since it is almost ridiculous that ONE exam holds so much weight.

Even more important, having higher stats are almost a guaranteed acceptance at your top choice. A vast majority of our students go to their top choice universities. We were told a 3.4 GPA and a DAT of 21(AA) solidifies the application. Usually 15-20 students apply each cycle, and 80% are accepted and choose to attend Columbia, Harvard, or Penn. The rest usually choose their state school. Again, it is super rare to not get accepted.

If you have the opportunity to go to an ivy league, do not pass it up because you are worried about a low GPA. The school can only help you. You will have an amazing educational experience and still get into dental school.

I went last year to a pre-health conference where you can find most of Dental and Medical schools. I meet a girl who's currently attending a medical school this fall. She went to a CSU school (CA school) but i will not tell which CSU she attend on a public thread. Anyway she got accepted at Cornell medical school even Cornell is an IVY school.! If what you say was right, i'm sure they will sent her a rejection before even they look to her application.

Also last year three people from UOP attend Columbia dental school even our school UOP isn't an IVY school
 
The ONLY discrepancy. The education level at CC vs college is just too drastic.

Perhaps it's just my experience, but I went to a CC, transferred to a 4-year undergrad, and not only were the classes comparable in every meaningful level (except expense and, in some cases, size), but many were even taught by the exact same teachers. There's no drastic difference in difficulty or quality of education.
 
Perhaps it's just my experience, but I went to a CC, transferred to a 4-year undergrad, and not only were the classes comparable in every meaningful level (except expense and, in some cases, size), but many were even taught by the exact same teachers. There's no drastic difference in difficulty or quality of education.

Not saying theyre not comparable. I took a couple of CC courses and they were very respectable. But point being, to DS the cut-off for GPA quality difference is at CC.

That being said, there are ALOT of CC's out there. Even more so than colleges and there's already 1 too many of them. Averagely, you are not going to get the same kind of education at a CC than at a 4-year institute.

There are reasons that 4-year institute are accredited the way they are.
 
what's a good enough stat for columbia as far GPA and DAT's are concerend?
 

to put it bluntly, columbia is one of the more prestigious schools out there.
It sure looks like they put a huge emphasis on high DAT score + 3.5~3.6 ish gpa, but are there any other factors, like research? or lots of extra curriculars that they take into account?

I know someone who's in dental school now (maryland) who majored biomedical engineering in a well respected university and got 3.92GPA, and TS27 and AA25.
Was flat out rejected from harvard (although he said he didn't feel too good about the interview), and got wait listed at columbia even with those stellar DAT and GPA and pretty good interview.
He was accepted into every other schools he applied to.

So is there something that the data doesn't tell that they look at ?
 
Are you trying to concoct a formula for a sure-fire acceptance? Sadly, there is none.
 
Or you could watch 14 admission committee members from various schools say that your undergraduate school doesn't matter and believe them...

Video 1 -
Video 2 -

They only distinguish between community colleges and 4 year universities.

There ya go.
 
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Pointless advice. Have you noticed how small the predental clubs are at Ivy Leagues? They're incredibly small. Have you noticed how people who go to Ivy Leagues tend to have large egos and not gravitate towards becoming professional teeth mechanics (aka med school drop outs)? Ivy League students tend to have loftier goals...

Getting into dental school isn't competitive enough to make school name a deciding factor that is worth mentioning. This is not medical school, law school or business school.
 
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lmfao is this a troll?

and for the people asking about columbia: i have a relative who works with admissions there.

they care mostly about dat from what ive been told.
 
For UCLA Dental school( btw UCLA is a public Ivy) on their website they care about these factors:

The Admissions Committee considers the following criteria when making its decisions about applicants:

  • Scholastic record

  • Aptitude for science demonstrated by academic record and the DAT

  • Performance on the PAT portion of the DAT to access spatial aptitude

  • Reading comprehension performance on the DAT, especially for English as a Second Language applicants

  • Manner in which scholastic record was achieved (i.e., course load, breadth of the courses of study, extracurricular activities, and work experience)

  • Substantive letters of recommendation (minimum of 3) from any objective source

  • Personal interview
 
There's a lot of truth to this. At my school, we had maybe 10-15 kids apply straight from undergrad. 3 at columbia, 1 at Harvard, 3 at penn straight from undergrad and these were people I knew personally. There were probably others accepted to penn and columbia from this past year I wasn't friends with. 2 others got into harvard who took a year or more off. The kids who got into columbia and penn basically had 3.4-3.6 gpas. The 1 headed to harvard had a 3.8. These kids all had 22AA+ DATs/

Also, everyone I talked to who was predental and took the DAT thought it was a joke. Most kids get above a 22AA at my school because you are way overprepared in your prereq classes. I also highly suspect that high SAT correlates to high DAT (there can be outliers) which is why ivy league students do well on the DAT. I know there are only 8 applying this year from my school.

But most of all, this should not be the reason you choose to go to an ivy league school. You should be going for the social and educational experience. There will never be a time in your life where you are surrounded by such a group of smart students. You will meet people with intelligences in extremely high standard deviations. Even in dental school, you will not meet the same amount of extremely intelligent people, though there are always people who are just above average intelligence and nothing special as well. Getting into dental school is more a function of work ethic than intelligence in my opinion.
 
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to put it bluntly, columbia is one of the more prestigious schools out there.
It sure looks like they put a huge emphasis on high DAT score + 3.5~3.6 ish gpa, but are there any other factors, like research? or lots of extra curriculars that they take into account?

I know someone who's in dental school now (maryland) who majored biomedical engineering in a well respected university and got 3.92GPA, and TS27 and AA25.
Was flat out rejected from harvard (although he said he didn't feel too good about the interview), and got wait listed at columbia even with those stellar DAT and GPA and pretty good interview.
He was accepted into every other schools he applied to.

So is there something that the data doesn't tell that they look at ?
The interview is the final deciding factor. You mess it up in any way (like not saying what they want to hear), you'll get the boot.
 
Perhaps it's just my experience, but I went to a CC, transferred to a 4-year undergrad, and not only were the classes comparable in every meaningful level (except expense and, in some cases, size), but many were even taught by the exact same teachers. There's no drastic difference in difficulty or quality of education.

I took classes at three different CC's in a major city and they were all complete 100% jokes. These were upper level math and physic classes. They pretty much told you what questions would be on the test almost word for word, the only difference would be the numbers, but the problem is the exact same.
 
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Good luck getting into Columbia, Harvard or Penn with a 21 AA and a 3.4 lol...

I was accepted into Penn with a ~3.4 and a 22, so maybe you should stuff it.

 
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I've been looking through these forums a lot and it seems like this question comes up a lot. I see a lot of advice that says to go to the school that will give you the best grades.

I thought I would just share some experience from the other side of the story. I would highly highly highly suggest that any high school student interested in dentistry go to an ivy league school or another highly prestigious institution if they are accepted. First, you get an amazing education and all ivy league schools offer tremendous financial aid. I go to school almost for free. Second, you will have a much higher chance of acceptance to a good dental school without needing the stats that other applicants have.

Admissions officers WILL be impressed if you go to a top university, and yes, it is often enough to slide by with mediocre GPAs and DAT scores. Where I go to school, all pre-dental students applying in the cycle are brought together for a pre-dental meeting. The pre-health advisors tell us straight up that if our GPAs are above a 3.0 (science and overall) and if we get 18 or above on every section of the DAT (which is about average) then we will have absolutely no trouble getting in. In the history of our school, anyone with stats like I listed above have been accepted. A 3.0 GPA at a hard university with grade deflation looks way better than a 3.8 at most other colleges. Admissions officers know this. Lots of people on this forum try to deny it. It is never an accident that someone was accepted by such a competitive university and this trumps the DAT - which makes sense, since it is almost ridiculous that ONE exam holds so much weight.

Even more important, having higher stats are almost a guaranteed acceptance at your top choice. A vast majority of our students go to their top choice universities. We were told a 3.4 GPA and a DAT of 21(AA) solidifies the application. Usually 15-20 students apply each cycle, and 80% are accepted and choose to attend Columbia, Harvard, or Penn. The rest usually choose their state school. Again, it is super rare to not get accepted.

If you have the opportunity to go to an ivy league, do not pass it up because you are worried about a low GPA. The school can only help you. You will have an amazing educational experience and still get into dental school.

I call crap on this one...


Air Force HPSP Recipient
Dental Student Class of 2017

http://dentalstudentdds.wordpress.com
 
if you got bunch of teenagers and then separated and put all the fat kids in a big bucket of fried chicken and then all the skinny kids in the same kind of bucket of fried chicken, you'd expect most of the fat kids to stay fat kids and most of skinny kids to stay skinny cuz they either do or aint got that big of an appetite. but then there's always that one skinny kid who dreams of being a fat kid and eats all the drumbsticks in the bucket. the point is, people who go to ivy leagues are fatasses
 
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