You're doing it wrong, part 2: your experiences

[sullen-burger]

The experience is a large part of why I'm pursuing medicine. It may not sound as impressive as my corporate duties as an AML + KYC compliance officer dealing with FinCEN and half a dozen international jurisdictional authorities while securing 7 figures worth of cryptocurrency transactions annually, but it is a more significant part of who I am as a candidate.

Okay since no one else caught this I'm gonna go ahead and say it: Yes. Mm-hmm. That does sound impressive. Everyone is impressed.

To the point, no one is saying, Don't talk about your experience as a parent. They're saying, if this is an important part of your story and somehow ties into your primary motivation to become a physician (and they are correct when saying the reason has got to be more original than just, because you're a parent) then use the 5300 characters to talk about that motivation at length in your personal statement. And not in the drop down category titled "hobbies" with bullet points "As a parent I .... "

Maybe it just means I look forward to sitting on an adcom myself one day and interjecting a "different" POV

Also, your motivation to become faculty of a respected institution of higher learning and admit students for interviews will be all just to spite an online forum from what will be like, 10 years ago? I'm sure your emote means your joking but, Really?

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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Also, your motivation to become faculty of a respected institution of higher learning and admit students for interviews will be all just to spite an online forum from what will be like, 10 years ago? I'm sure your emote means your joking but, Really?

I think it's pretty clear that he means he wants to add another POV to the process: that taking care of your own special needs children is a good example of a commitment to others and that sticking it to SDN has nothing to do with it.

 

[Goro]

We don't think that way when there is a track record of academic excellence and commitment to extracurricular activities as well.

I would be afraid of unconscious bias along the lines of , He she won't be able to complete medical school in time since they have such a large time commitment at home .

 

[Knicks17]

Is competitive Fishing worth mentioning in your hobbies/ I also clean up all the beaches that I fish off and record data?

 

[Goro]

Very unique hobby!

Is competitive Fishing worth mentioning in your hobbies/ I also clean up all the beaches that I fish off and record data?

 

[Knicks17]

@Goro Thanks! Got one thing down to put in my future application....

 

[esob]

Okay since no one else caught this I'm gonna go ahead and say it: Yes. Mm-hmm. That does sound impressive. Everyone is impressed.

Also, your motivation to become faculty of a respected institution of higher learning and admit students for interviews will be all just to spite an online forum from what will be like, 10 years ago? I'm sure your emote means your joking but, Really?

Hmm, so working in academia with the hopes of influencing the next generation of physicians and having some input into the selection process all of a sudden makes me salty and singularly motivated to spite people on the net? How you gleaned that instead of the idea that someone might actually be genuinely interested in the process and pondered if it could benefit from some diversity of interest at this point I'm not sure, but let me know how you make out in the CARS section and if its above a 130 perhaps you can tutor me on your reasoning methodology.

 

[esob]

I would be afraid of unconscious bias along the lines of , He she won't be able to complete medical school in time since they have such a large time commitment at home .

The most time consuming one will be under full time care by the time I enter medical school, and the other graduated so it won't be an issue at that point.

 

[libertyyne]

We don't think that way when there is a track record of academic excellence and commitment to extracurricular activities as well.

EC's you can drop without guilt. If you are the primary care taker of a special needs child, that responsibility lasts a lifetime..

 

[Med Ed]

Hmm, so working in academia with the hopes of influencing the next generation of physicians and having some input into the selection process all of a sudden makes me salty and singularly motivated to spite people on the net? How you gleaned that instead of the idea that someone might actually be genuinely interested in the process and pondered if it could benefit from some diversity of interest at this point I'm not sure, but let me know how you make out in the CARS section and if its above a 130 perhaps you can tutor me on your reasoning methodology.

We have reached a milestone where several contributors to this thread seem to be talking past each other.

@Goro pointed out that some applicants do try to play a type of parent card in support of their respective candidacies. Objectively he is correct, being a parent or caretaker does not inherently increase one's stock as a potential healthcare provider.

That said, you are absolutely right to define your experiences with your children as helping to shape who you are and who you want to be. You just have to be a little careful. Unless you are an adoptive or foster parent, having special needs children is not a matter of choice but of circumstance, and in this process it is always possible to inadvertently convey a strength to a liability.

Finally, I have gotten the sense from your posts that you view adcoms as monolithic entity which may be in need of refreshing. Perhaps there is some truth to this. While an accurate number is impossible to determine, the allopathic schools in this country probably have around 2,000-3,500 active committee members at any given time. More if you count our osteopathic colleagues. If you feel that your voice will be needed in the future then we welcome your participation.

 

[sullen-burger]

@esob Please accept my apologies. I didn't mean to be rude. I wish you success in your final year in undergrad, your 2018 MCAT, application, and eventual 2019 matriculation. I could never imagine doing what you're doing and with kids. You're awesome dude.

 

[Goro]

I remember one applicant who had her 12 year son write her a LOR. I am NOT making this up. Her logic that she was a good mom, so she'd be a good doctor.

Auto-reject from me.

@Goro pointed out that some applicants do try to play a type of parent card in support of their respective candidacies. Objectively he is correct, being a parent or caretaker does not inherently increase one's stock as a potential healthcare provider.

That said, you are absolutely right to define your experiences with your children as helping to shape who you are and who you want to be. You just have to be a little careful. Unless you are an adoptive or foster parent, having special needs children is not a matter of choice but of circumstance, and in this process it is always possible to inadvertently convey a strength to a liability.

.

 

[esob]

We have reached a milestone where several contributors to this thread seem to be talking past each other.

@Goro pointed out that some applicants do try to play a type of parent card in support of their respective candidacies. Objectively he is correct, being a parent or caretaker does not inherently increase one's stock as a potential healthcare provider.

That said, you are absolutely right to define your experiences with your children as helping to shape who you are and who you want to be. You just have to be a little careful. Unless you are an adoptive or foster parent, having special needs children is not a matter of choice but of circumstance, and in this process it is always possible to inadvertently convey a strength to a liability.

Finally, I have gotten the sense from your posts that you view adcoms as monolithic entity which may be in need of refreshing. Perhaps there is some truth to this. While an accurate number is impossible to determine, the allopathic schools in this country probably have around 2,000-3,500 active committee members at any given time. More if you count our osteopathic colleagues. If you feel that your voice will be needed in the future then we welcome your participation.

I understand the liability part completely. It's the reason why my matriculation is scheduled for 2019 instead of earlier, since they will both be 18 at that point. I have set aside sufficient funds for their full time care for the next decade while I do my training just in case one or both is unable to function independently. There is actually a very nice community in the Austin area for adults with Asperger's that I've just about got my son sold on and I think it would be the best path for him.

As far as adcoms being the illuminati, I think more that the entire medical establishment is just slow to change. From my medical service in the military, fresh ideas were generally met with scorn rather than encouragement. I've actually pondered this whole idea for the last couple of days and would be interested in someday putting forth a caregiver hypothesis and testing it. Do caregivers practice medicine differently? I think you could assign some metrics to it and find out. Patient satisfaction surveys, empathy scores, and numerous other variables could be tallied and perhaps provide some insight. Maybe there is no difference. Maybe parents are worse or perhaps they are better but only to an insignificant degree.

How would it change your view of applicants if some reputable researcher published a fairly bulletproof study demonstrating that those who had directly participated in child care turned out some significantly better medical outcomes for their patients? What if they turned out to instead have twice the mortality rate in procedural specialties but better outcomes in the intellectual specialties? Do you deny the applicant who wants to be a surgeon unless they agree to switch to path?

I keep hearing murmurs about the "machine" trying to create more human/relatable/empathetic/etc physicians (the new MCAT comes to mind as the most appreciable example), so my thought process then wants to ask the question: aren't there some experiences that might be predictive of such a physician? For example, it seems adcoms in general tend to "like" military members. Why is that? Does it say something about our work ethic? Our altruism? Our mental endurance? It seems that at least "some" experiences are indeed considered valuable in evaluating applicants. While it may be anectdotal, as someone who had done both, it seems unthinkable that what I did in the military somehow makes me super doctor while the decades of sleepless nights, of racing to a child's room to find them in the throws of a grand mal seizure and feeling paralyzed to help them despite having handled gross trauma in the field a hundred times before would be not relevant.

Don't get me wrong, I've gotten the take-home message more than once here from adcoms members who are gracious enough to share advice on what makes a good application/interview and what doesn't. I've settled on the idea that I likely won't even mention it. None the less, it still perplexes me that my ability to divine Sn1/E1/E2/Sn2 reactions based on esoteric parameters (which I'm pretty good at actually) trumps my ability to empathize with a parent who feels that someone has literally stolen the moon from their sky (and to reassure them that they possess the gear to go forward and do what must be done).

 

[gamieg]

I understand the liability part completely. It's the reason why my matriculation is scheduled for 2019 instead of earlier, since they will both be 18 at that point. I have set aside sufficient funds for their full time care for the next decade while I do my training just in case one or both is unable to function independently. There is actually a very nice community in the Austin area for adults with Asperger's that I've just about got my son sold on and I think it would be the best path for him.

As far as adcoms being the illuminati, I think more that the entire medical establishment is just slow to change. From my medical service in the military, fresh ideas were generally met with scorn rather than encouragement. I've actually pondered this whole idea for the last couple of days and would be interested in someday putting forth a caregiver hypothesis and testing it. Do caregivers practice medicine differently? I think you could assign some metrics to it and find out. Patient satisfaction surveys, empathy scores, and numerous other variables could be tallied and perhaps provide some insight. Maybe there is no difference. Maybe parents are worse or perhaps they are better but only to an insignificant degree.

How would it change your view of applicants if some reputable researcher published a fairly bulletproof study demonstrating that those who had directly participated in child care turned out some significantly better medical outcomes for their patients? What if they turned out to instead have twice the mortality rate in procedural specialties but better outcomes in the intellectual specialties? Do you deny the applicant who wants to be a surgeon unless they agree to switch to path?

I keep hearing murmurs about the "machine" trying to create more human/relatable/empathetic/etc physicians (the new MCAT comes to mind as the most appreciable example), so my thought process then wants to ask the question: aren't there some experiences that might be predictive of such a physician? For example, it seems adcoms in general tend to "like" military members. Why is that? Does it say something about our work ethic? Our altruism? Our mental endurance? It seems that at least "some" experiences are indeed considered valuable in evaluating applicants. While it may be anectdotal, as someone who had done both, it seems unthinkable that what I did in the military somehow makes me super doctor while the decades of sleepless nights, of racing to a child's room to find them in the throws of a grand mal seizure and feeling paralyzed to help them despite having handled gross trauma in the field a hundred times before would be not relevant.

Don't get me wrong, I've gotten the take-home message more than once here from adcoms members who are gracious enough to share advice on what makes a good application/interview and what doesn't. I've settled on the idea that I likely won't even mention it. None the less, it still perplexes me that my ability to divine Sn1/E1/E2/Sn2 reactions based on esoteric parameters (which I'm pretty good at actually) trumps my ability to empathize with a parent who feels that someone has literally stolen the moon from their sky (and to reassure them that they possess the gear to go forward and do what must be done).

I think the advice here might just be urging you to address your attributes as a parent elsewhere, such as in your ps or secondaries, rather than as a listed experience.

 

[Mclovin0351]

I'll reiterate what the above few posters said, I had a pretty significant family medical experience concurrent with my cycle and it was nowhere on my app, but made for a great interview topic.

 

[LizzyM]

(2) Don't list anything from high school or earlier. I don't care if you played for the state championship football team. I don't care if you had great accomplishments as a boy scout. I don't care if you were valedictorian of your high school. Pretend your life started on the first day of college....

Excellent thread and exceptional initial post but I would take #2 with a grain of salt.

If you won a national or international athletic competition as a HS student, it can certainly go on your application. No one would expect Missy Franklin to leave 4 Olympic gold medals off of her application because she won them at the age of 17.

If you had gap years between HS and college, you should list your activities during that time. For one applicant I know, pretending that life started on the first day of college would have meant leaving off a tour of duty as a US Marine and that would have been a very odd gap.

These are, perhaps, exceptions to the rule.

And finally, one comment about caring for offspring, parents, siblings or grandparents. You care for these people because you love them. It is hard work but it done out of love. Doctoring calls for helping people who you aren't your relatives or friends. Would you get up in the middle of the night, despite being bone tired, for someone else's child? Demonstrating that you made sacrifices for your kids is not a bad thing but it doesn't provide evidence that you are up to the work of a physician.

 

[AnotherLawyer]

With respect to parenting, what do the adcoms think of using it as a topic on a "what makes you unique/what do you add to the incoming class" type essay? I'm on the fence here. I think being a parent has made me more patient, more compassionate, a better communicator, and more comfortable around kids. All those things, I believe, are good things for doctors and hopefully my experiences could benefit my future classmates. On the other hand, like many people on this thread, I think "you're a parent, big deal?"

Thoughts?

 

[JB50]

...it tells me that you are a very active, outdoorsy kind of person. Great. Good for you. It also tells me that you are more concerned with enjoying yourself than getting into medical school. Not so great. Bad for you.

Who enjoys themselves in undergrad before the next 12 years are taken up?

 

[Goro]

Being a parent is not unique for a medical student. It's like saying breathing is unique.

With respect to parenting, what do the adcoms think of using it as a topic on a "what makes you unique/what do you add to the incoming class" type essay? I'm on the fence here. I think being a parent has made me more patient, more compassionate, a better communicator, and more comfortable around kids. All those things, I believe, are good things for doctors and hopefully my experiences could benefit my future classmates. On the other hand, like many people on this thread, I think "you're a parent, big deal?"

Thoughts?

 

[AnotherLawyer]

Being a parent is not unique for a medical student. It's like saying breathing is unique.

I could be wrong, but I would have thought that med student parents are fairly rare. Nonetheless I will defer the wisdom of the adcoms and just talk about my military background. That seems to be universally well regarded.

 

[libertyyne]

I could be wrong, but I would have thought that med student parents are fairly rare. Nonetheless I will defer the wisdom of the adcoms and just talk about my military background. That seems to be universally well regarded.

You are fairly wrong. I have spoken to med students that are parents at almost every medical school I have interviewed at. 8+. They even have coa increases for day care expenses! That being said, why even bring it up. Mention it when it seems appropriate.

 

[AnotherLawyer]

You are fairly wrong. I have spoken to med students that are parents at almost every medical school I have interviewed at. 8+. They even have coa increases for day care expenses! That being said, why even bring it up. Mention it when it seems appropriate.

Well as I mentioned, I think there are several reasons to bring it up. Being a parent may not be an accomplishment, but neither is losing a parent for example. It is a circumstance or experience, though, and one from which people can grow and develop. If 20% of a medical school class consists of parents, then I see why this wouldn't add anything to the class. But if the number is, say, 5%, then it seems like the perspective gained through parenthood could add something to the diversity of the class.

But as the poster above said, getting accepted is more important than making a point. So nothing about parenthood for me.

 

[Goro]

Definitely talk about your service, and for that, we thank you. What branch?

I could be wrong, but I would have thought that med student parents are fairly rare. Nonetheless I will defer the wisdom of the adcoms and just talk about my military background. That seems to be universally well regarded.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

So I'm getting a lot of conflicting vibes here. Whats the final word on a "good" number of activities to have filled out for a borderline (read: low GPA/high MCAT) applicant? Or just to make sure your ECs aren't whats lacking in your application?

It's better to not fill all 15 slots and have every slot you do fill be worthwhile rather than fill every slot by padding. I think if you have fewer than 5 slots in there though, you might either be lacking or condensing too much.

 

[sullen-burger]

So I'm getting a lot of conflicting vibes here. Whats the final word on a "good" number of activities to have filled out for a borderline (read: low GPA/high MCAT) applicant?

I don't know if there's a magic number. My learned colleagues might have it but here's what I like to do. Brainstorm and make a list of anything important you've done that fits the EC criteria. List them all. Then count them.

Hopefully you have 10-12 solid things. If you're short of 15 and you find yourself trying to think of more just to get to 15, you dont need any more.

Any more than 15 and review your list to condense or redact possible fluff.

 

[freak7]

So I'm getting a lot of conflicting vibes here. Whats the final word on a "good" number of activities to have filled out for a borderline (read: low GPA/high MCAT) applicant? Or just to make sure your ECs aren't whats lacking in your application?

n=1

I was "borderline" and had 13. Given that I've had multiple different jobs that take up over a third of those entries. Many of those entries were umbrella entries that covered one topic but many different activities. I'm a bit non-trad though so I've had a lot more time to fill my life up with stuff

 

[sullen-burger]

Yikes, I don't know if I could hit 10 unless I include a bunch of my hobbies (2-3)

I included in mine 2-3 things that were non academic hobbies.

 

[libertyyne]

Zero Hobbies for me. I filled the 15 with activities. I had to bunch together jobs, research and posters in specific categories because I wanted to dedicate individual slots to the more interesting parts of my application.

 

[Stumpyman]

I worked as a scribe in an ER for a year, then after two years I worked as a scribe again at a different hospital for a year. Should that be listed as one single activity? Or should it be two separate listings? It was the same exact job just different start/end dates and differing hospitals. Thanks!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yikes, I don't know if I could hit 10 unless I include a bunch of my hobbies (2-3)

Hobbies are okay. There's actually a hobby designation IIRC. Just don't use the boring ones.

 

[LizzyM]

I worked as a scribe in an ER for a year, then after two years I worked as a scribe again at a different hospital for a year. Should that be listed as one single activity? Or should it be two separate listings? It was the same exact job just different start/end dates and differing hospitals. Thanks!

I'd break that into two separate jobs. Separate contacts, locations, place names, etc.

If you lack for room, omit honors. Biggest waste of space ever unless the honor was something exceptional (e.g. an award at the national level, not the school level).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'd break that into two separate jobs. Separate contacts, locations, place names, etc.

If you lack for room, omit honors. Biggest waste of space ever unless the honor was something exceptional (e.g. an award at the national level, not the school level).

So it's okay to leave off dean's list/president's list? I was planning on keeping my military merit awards (the ones I earned for extra stuff, not the automatic deployment ones) and leaving off the school stuff.

 

[LizzyM]

So it's okay to leave off dean's list/president's list? I was planning on keeping my military merit awards (the ones I earned for extra stuff, not the automatic deployment ones) and leaving off the school stuff.

sounds like a plan. I laugh when I see someone with a 3.95 list "honor roll, 6 semesters". Well, duh, of course you were on the Dean's List.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

sounds like a plan. I laugh when I see someone with a 3.95 list "honor roll, 6 semesters". Well, duh, of course you were on the Dean's List.

Thanks. That was my thinking as well.

 

[AnotherLawyer]

If someone has multiple job assignments at different points while working at one organization, all of which are significantly different from one another, should that all be combined as one period of employment or should it be broken out into separate jobs/assignments?

 

[LizzyM]

If someone has multiple job assignments at different points while working at one organization, all of which are significantly different from one another, should that all be combined as one period of employment or should it be broken out into separate jobs/assignments?

How many slots do you have? If you have enough slots, separate them. If you don't, combine them. This is not rocket sciences, my friends.

 

[AnotherLawyer]

sounds like a plan. I laugh when I see someone with a 3.95 list "honor roll, 6 semesters". Well, duh, of course you were on the Dean's List.

Similarly, latin honors are included on the transcript, so listing it doesn't tell adcoms anything they don't already know. But what about PBK? I've often heard that's the one honor worth mentioning. Do you agree with that or should it be left off?

Also do you think the fact that you're at a top school, where, presumably everyone graduated summa cum laude and is a member of PBK, factors into your view on this matter? Just curious.

 

[LizzyM]

Similarly, latin honors are included on the transcript, so listing it doesn't tell adcoms anything they don't already know. But what about PBK? I've often heard that's the one honor worth mentioning. Do you agree with that or should it be left off?

Also do you think the fact that you're at a top school, where, presumably everyone graduated summa cum laude and is a member of PBK, factors into your view on this matter? Just curious.

I've seen a few people impressed with PBK, but again, if you are short of space, this isn't very helpful unless you are from a grade deflating school where summa cum laude is granted to students with a GPA of 3.5.

 

[esob]

So if parenting isn't an activity and you work 60 hrs a week, carry a 4.0, take care of 4 kids and still somehow find time to eek out hospice hours, habitat hours and shadowing hrs, you only have technically 4 activities to list and shouldn't apply? (hospice, work, habitat, shadowing)

 

[libertyyne]

So if parenting isn't an activity and you work 60 hrs a week, carry a 4.0, take care of 4 kids and still somehow find time to eek out hospice hours, habitat hours and shadowing hrs, you only have technically 4 activities to list and shouldn't apply? (hospice, work, habitat, shadowing)

You are a non-trad, I am assuming you have had multiple jobs. Got any research/posters? Any special projects or awards at work? Any academic distinctions? Any other volunteer activities.

 

[cactusman]

You are a non-trad, I am assuming you have had multiple jobs. Got any research/posters? Any special projects or awards at work? Any academic distinctions? Any other volunteer activities.

Or hobbies, or military honors?

 

[Endoxifen]

I'd break that into two separate jobs. Separate contacts, locations, place names, etc.

If you lack for room, omit honors. Biggest waste of space ever unless the honor was something exceptional (e.g. an award at the national level, not the school level).

I'm in the running for a school award for being in the top .5% of the class. If I get that (have to keep up current work for one more year), would that be something to include?

 

[esob]

You are a non-trad, I am assuming you have had multiple jobs. Got any research/posters? Any special projects or awards at work? Any academic distinctions? Any other volunteer activities.

Or hobbies, or military honors?

Owned my own tech firm for the last 19 years; the only award I have is financial independence by age 40, lol (which is when I decided I should go to medical school). I don't know what an academic distinction is other than I've finished every course with > 100% except for micro where I got a 99 (dad had a heart attack so I slacked off while I went to visit him). I have several "honor societies" (Alpha Chi, SALUTE, Alpha Sigma Lambda, Theta Alpha Kappa) and 8 dean's/president's list awards but it seems like those are pretty worthless to put on an application if I'm reading correctly. Outside of that I average 12 hrs per month in hospice, 8 hrs with habitat and 4 hrs shadowing. I am a member of the student veteran's association as well as the typical premed societies. I also have about 8,000 hrs clinical experience in the military as a combat medic and lab tech, but Lizzy told me they were too old to "hang my hat on" (or something to that effect).

I've got your typical military medals (good conduct medal, service ribbons, national defense medal, unit citations, etc.) and have an exemplary service jacket (always promoted early, master fitness, not a single black mark in my records) but I've been out for so long I'm not how relevant my service might be considered (if my clinical hrs are not relevant, I'm not sure if the same principle applies to the rest of my service). Current hobbies are just working out and playing guitar, as I literally have zero personal time (5 hrs per night of sleep, the rest is school/work/kids). I can't imagine how I could fit another single thing into my schedule, and that's even with outsourcing 30K annually worth of child care. The special needs kids easily account for 10 - 15 hrs weekly shuttling to doctor's appointments, counseling, prescriptions, plus doing homework with them, food prep for their special diets, etc.

 

[libertyyne]

1.Owned my own tech firm for the last 19 years; the only award I have is financial independence by age 40, lol (which is when I decided I should go to medical school). I don't know what an academic distinction is other than I've finished every course with > 100% except for micro where I got a 99 (dad had a heart attack so I slacked off while I went to visit him).
2. I have several "honor societies" (Alpha Chi, SALUTE, Alpha Sigma Lambda, Theta Alpha Kappa) and 8 dean's/president's list awards but it seems like those are pretty worthless to put on an application if I'm reading correctly. Outside of that I average
3. 12 hrs per month in hospice,
4.8 hrs with habitat and
5. 4 hrs shadowing.
6.I am a member of the student veteran's association as well as the typical premed societies.
7.I also have about 8,000 hrs clinical experience in the military as a combat medic and lab tech, but Lizzy told me they were too old to "hang my hat on" (or something to that effect).
8.I've got your typical military medals (good conduct medal, service ribbons, national defense medal, unit citations, etc.) and have an exemplary service jacket (always promoted early, master fitness, not a single black mark in my records) but I've been out for so long I'm not how relevant my service might be considered (if my clinical hrs are not relevant, I'm not sure if the same principle applies to the rest of my service).
9. Current hobbies are just working out and playing guitar, as I literally have zero personal time (5 hrs per night of sleep, the rest is school/work/kids).

I can't imagine how I could fit another single thing into my schedule, and that's even with outsourcing 30K annually worth of child care. The special needs kids easily account for 10 - 15 hrs weekly shuttling to doctor's appointments, counseling, prescriptions, plus doing homework with them, food prep for their special diets, etc.

IMHO these should each be an entry. I would probably diversify by dropping the Habitat or shadowing if you already have enough in it to add a poster presentation or some research tidbit if possible.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Owned my own tech firm for the last 19 years; the only award I have is financial independence by age 40, lol (which is when I decided I should go to medical school). I don't know what an academic distinction is other than I've finished every course with > 100% except for micro where I got a 99 (dad had a heart attack so I slacked off while I went to visit him). I have several "honor societies" (Alpha Chi, SALUTE, Alpha Sigma Lambda, Theta Alpha Kappa) and 8 dean's/president's list awards but it seems like those are pretty worthless to put on an application if I'm reading correctly. Outside of that I average 12 hrs per month in hospice, 8 hrs with habitat and 4 hrs shadowing. I am a member of the student veteran's association as well as the typical premed societies. I also have about 8,000 hrs clinical experience in the military as a combat medic and lab tech, but Lizzy told me they were too old to "hang my hat on" (or something to that effect).

I've got your typical military medals (good conduct medal, service ribbons, national defense medal, unit citations, etc.) and have an exemplary service jacket (always promoted early, master fitness, not a single black mark in my records) but I've been out for so long I'm not how relevant my service might be considered (if my clinical hrs are not relevant, I'm not sure if the same principle applies to the rest of my service). Current hobbies are just working out and playing guitar, as I literally have zero personal time (5 hrs per night of sleep, the rest is school/work/kids). I can't imagine how I could fit another single thing into my schedule, and that's even with outsourcing 30K annually worth of child care. The special needs kids easily account for 10 - 15 hrs weekly shuttling to doctor's appointments, counseling, prescriptions, plus doing homework with them, food prep for their special diets, etc.

Don't take this the wrong way, but it kind of seems like you're fishing for compliments or something. You honestly have all this and think somehow you only have 4 slots to fill?

 

[cactusman]

IMHO these should each be an entry. I would probably diversify by dropping the Habitat or shadowing if you already have enough in it to add a poster presentation or some research tidbit if possible.

Research can be tough for a non-trad with a tight schedule, so I wouldn't worry much about trying to diversify, but otherwise totally agree with this.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Research can be tough for a non-trad with a tight schedule, so I wouldn't worry much about trying to diversify, but otherwise totally agree with this.

It can be tough, but it certainly can be done. I managed to do three projects while working 80 hours a week, finishing my degree with a full load, and raising two kids. You just have to look for the right projects (or come up with your own). I do completely agree with you though. Research importance is overstated by premeds and is definitely not something you should drop volunteering for.

 

[Med Ed]

Who enjoys themselves in undergrad before the next 12 years are taken up?

Lots of people, but most of the smart ones balance their fun with other things.

 

[esob]

Don't take this the wrong way, but it kind of seems like you're fishing for compliments or something. You honestly have all this and think somehow you only have 4 slots to fill?

Not at all, I legit only see hospice, habitat, shadowing and work. Ever since Lizzy said basically my army healthcare experience was too old to be relevant I've long felt that the whole military experience might not have much impact on my application. I'm not like you guys that are just coming off active duty with tales of hunting terrorists only 6 months earlier. I would love to do research (assuming I could trade out some activities) but every professor I've talked to gives me the same song and dance: "our research positions are reserved for graduate students primarily and any undergrad slots we have we try to fill with those seeking admissions to Ph.D programs." I literally had the last professor say to me, "It's actually more important for you to go follow a doctor around." I just smiled and thanked her for her time

I have decided I'm going to stop habitat though and try out the local food bank. The only thing I know for sure is that I don't plan on letting activities negatively impact my grades since in a worst case scenario I can graduate, take an entire year to volunteer and reapply if need be. I would like to hear from some other adcoms though if my intuition is correct that my military service won't count for much since it was so long ago?

 

[libertyyne]

Not at all, I legit only see hospice, habitat, shadowing and work. Ever since Lizzy said basically my army healthcare experience was too old to be relevant I've long felt that the whole military experience might not have much impact on my application. I'm not like you guys that are just coming off active duty with tales of hunting terrorists only 6 months earlier. I would love to do research (assuming I could trade out some activities) but every professor I've talked to gives me the same song and dance: "our research positions are reserved for graduate students primarily and any undergrad slots we have we try to fill with those seeking admissions to Ph.D programs." I literally had the last professor say to me, "It's actually more important for you to go follow a doctor around." I just smiled and thanked her for her time

I have decided I'm going to stop habitat though and try out the local food bank. The only thing I know for sure is that I don't plan on letting activities negatively impact my grades since in a worst case scenario I can graduate, take an entire year to volunteer and reapply if need be. I would like to hear from some other adcoms though if my intuition is correct that my military service won't count for much since it was so long ago?

I dont think it takes an adcom to say that your military experience pertinent. I think it will immensely help.

Thankyou for your service. That being said, Even if it doesnt help, you still have space on the app, why not fill it?