You're doing it wrong, part 2: your experiences

[Med Ed]

This is extremely helpful for reapplying. I have a question, though. Last cycle, my pre-med advisor mentioned that it was best to write work/activities like a resume (I.e. Action verb followed by whatever I did). Is this the case or should I actually write things out?

What are your thoughts on combining poster presentations into one activity? Seems like posters are a dime a dozen doesnt make sense on wasting multiple entries for them.

This thread is more about what to avoid. There are multiple acceptable ways to list activities in a clear and coherent fashion.

Speaking of avoid, one of the most overused phrases in all of AMCAS is "As a..." It's really just a pet peeve, but I find it annoying when someone's activity descriptions read like this:

As an organic chemistry TA, I...
As a crisis center volunteer, I...
As a research assistant in Dr. Pangloss's laboratory, I...
As a professional birthday clown, I...
As a rendering plant equipment operator, I...

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[Med Ed]

Thanks @Med Ed for doing this! In regards to your point about not listing anything in high school, would it be bad to include a service trip that I went on senior year of high school? (roughly 100 hours)

As an isolated trip I would no bother. If it is part of a longer-term commitment that spread into your college years it might be worth mentioning, but not as a discrete activity entry.

 

[ak-aka-dak]

Should I not list the actual start date from high school and not count those hours and instead list the start date after high school graduation? One of the EC's (hospital volunteering) I took a break from and then volunteered at a low cost clinic for several months when I started back up again. Then I went back to the same hospital I was at for 2 years. I still volunteer at this hospital every week and will continue doing so.

 

[mwsapphire]

My hobbies include raiding in WoW two nights a week and knitting socks... I'm not sure either of those are something I should include on an application.

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Well I mean, hey are hobbies that make you interesting, so why not?
I mean, maybe leave out the WoW, but knitting socks is cute

 

[Med Ed]

It was continued at a much more minimal level of involvement - partially because my partner was injured and needed a significant amount of time to recover, partially because the sport is incredibly expensive to compete in and it wasn't financially feasible to attend college and compete often/at a high level at the same time.

You can play this one of two ways. You can list the sport as having started in your youth and finished in college, with a commensurately large number of hours invested, and your top 15 finishes put in the dwscription. Alternatively, you could just put the sport in your personal statement. In your case the former sounds more appropriate.

I will probably have to amend my statement about high school activities. It's fine to include things that you have done for a very large portion of your life, especially if it continues past high school. There are plenty of applicants who include learning and playing instruments like piano or the violin this way. The problem is really with listing discrete activities that started and stopped prior to college. Like playing high school football.

 

[Chimichica]

Which would be 1,040 hours. Pretty easy to convert it.

Well duh, it's not about ease to convert it. I guess what I am asking is it a rule that it has to be in hours. I don't want to deviate from the norm but I feel like it's more telling if I quatitate x years, x weeks, x hrs/day. Or does it really not matter

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[Lawpy]

Well duh, it's not about ease to convert it. I guess what I am asking is it a rule that it has to be in hours. I don't want to deviate from the norm but I feel like it's more telling if I quatitate x years, x weeks, x hrs/day. Or does it really not matter

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You don't have to give an exact number. An approximation is fine.

 

[libertyyne]

This thread is more about what to avoid. There are multiple acceptable ways to list activities in a clear and coherent fashion.

Speaking of avoid, one of the most overused phrases in all of AMCAS is "As a..." It's really just a pet peeve, but I find it annoying when someone's activity descriptions read like this:

As an organic chemistry TA, I...
As a crisis center volunteer, I...
As a research assistant in Dr. Pangloss's laboratory, I...
As a professional birthday clown, I...
As a rendering plant equipment operator, I...

As a mindless SDN user, I ... am triggered.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Well duh, it's not about ease to convert it. I guess what I am asking is it a rule that it has to be in hours. I don't want to deviate from the norm but I feel like it's more telling if I quatitate x years, x weeks, x hrs/day. Or does it really not matter

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You put the number of hours (approximated) and then you can quantify it in the description to show that it was a sustained commitment and not just a bunch of hours in a short time.

 

[Goro]

1 hr /yr over 5 years still = 5 hours AND 5 years. It's better to be more specific.

@Goro @meded I am a bit unclear as to why hours are the usual unit of time. It just sounds a little crazy to state in hours that I did 5 years of reading to the blind. Is it not better to state read to the blind 5 years, 2x week for 2 hours/day.

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[Med Ed]

@Goro @meded I am a bit unclear as to why hours are the usual unit of time. It just sounds a little crazy to state in hours that I did 5 years of reading to the blind. Is it not better to state read to the blind 5 years, 2x week for 2 hours/day.

I do not know the exact rationale, but I do find it easy to form an initial impression based simply on the raw number of hours, and further investigating only a subset of those to see the length of commitment. This becomes significant when you are reviewing a lot of applications.

 

[Lozzo]

Should normal activities just be in bullet form like resume-style and then the most meaningful in longer paragraph form?

 

[flip_08]

Well duh, it's not about ease to convert it. I guess what I am asking is it a rule that it has to be in hours. I don't want to deviate from the norm but I feel like it's more telling if I quatitate x years, x weeks, x hrs/day. Or does it really not matter

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The format is

Start date
End date
# of hours

And yes it is a rule, you must have a start date, end date, hours, and contact info for every activity. The only exception I believe is for activities like hobbies it won't ask for contact info.

 

[Sardinia]

@Med Ed "five or fewer entries don't apply..."

1. Working at X.
   
2. Research at Y.
3. Volunteering at Z.
   
4. Shadowing Doc. XYZ at ZYX.
5. Hobby/social club/activity.

I consider this to be the MSAR skeleton. Especially if we are considering your point of view that the first year of college is going to be the newborn phase for applicants, then chances are traditional students will be beefing up their modest skeletons with the base five while making sure their GPAs are competitive enough to not be autofiltered out by the system. If you are looking for more than five, then I'm assuming that you prefer traditional applicants with diversity over commitment or you are more favorable to non-traditional students who are increasingly becoming the trend for accepted medical students who have the time to build up a variety of experiences over a much wider span of time.

 

[Med Ed]

@Med Ed "five or fewer entries don't apply..."

1. Working at X.
   
2. Research at Y.
3. Volunteering at Z.
   
4. Shadowing Doc. XYZ at ZYX.
5. Hobby/social club/activity.

I consider this to be the MSAR skeleton. Especially if we are considering your point of view that the first year of college is going to be the newborn phase for applicants, then chances are traditional students will be beefing up their modest skeletons with the base five while making sure their GPAs are competitive enough to not be autofiltered out by the system. If you are looking for more than five, then I'm assuming that you prefer traditional applicants with diversity over commitment or you are more favorable to non-traditional students who are increasingly becoming the trend for accepted medical students who have the time to build up a variety of experiences over a much wider span of time.

As a skeleton I prefer EAM (Experiences Attributes Metrics). The reason why five or fewer is problematic is that when reviewers get to the activities section we scroll, and if the scrolling ends quickly it doesn't look so good. Conversely, if you have to scroll all the way to 15 and the entries get really weak, well, that's not so great, either.

Perhaps I have seen a successful applicant who only listed a handful of super high quality experiences, but if so it escapes me.

 

[libertyyne]

As a skeleton I prefer EAM (Experiences Attributes Metrics). The reason why five or fewer is problematic is that when reviewers get to the activities section we scroll, and if the scrolling ends quickly it doesn't look so good. Conversely, if you have to scroll all the way to 15 and the entries get really weak, well, that's not so great, either.

Perhaps I have seen a successful applicant who only listed a handful of super high quality experiences, but if so it escapes me.

What are some good heuristics to determine if the activity is worth putting on the app.

 

[Citizen #3]

I have 3 meaningful EC's that I've been doing since the summer of my sophomore year in high school. I have more EC's than that, of course, but those three are my main EC's. Should I not list the actual start date from high school and not count those hours and instead list the start date after high school graduation? One of the EC's (hospital volunteering) I took a break from during my freshman year in college, then volunteered at a low cost clinic for several months when I started back up again. Then I went back to the same hospital I was at during my last 2 years of high school. Those 2 years from high school add up to 300 volunteer hours. I still volunteer at this hospital every week and will continue doing so.

I think that including an accurate start date is generally what you should do. If anything, it just shows a continued involvement. However, since you didn't do it continuously, I'm not sure if I'd list it as one continuous time frame or two separate time frames (and then, if two separate time frames, I'm not sure if I'd include the high school dates).

 

[Sardinia]

What are some good heuristics to determine if the activity is worth putting on the app.

The man just wrote that the longer the activity takes for him to scroll on his Macbook the better it is. In the words of David Simon, "Use dots. The Deputy likes dots..."

 

[libertyyne]

The man just wrote that the longer the activity takes for him to scroll on his Macbook the better it is.

He also stated that if adcom scrolls to the end and sees filler, adcom wont be impressed.

 

[Sardinia]

He also stated that if adcom scrolls to the end and sees filler, adcom wont be impressed.

Make sure you keep it to 14 pages and not 15. That way he won't be able to tell the difference. Presuming that medical school applicants are notorious for saturating their applications with faux activities to the point that an admissions committee member honestly believes that six to eleven activities is a reasonable range for people who are actually invested in all six to eleven activities. Hint: A majority are not intrinsically invested at all and waste resources that could be allocated to training members that aren't using the opportunity to show up once a month to put on their AAMC activities list.

 

[Sardinia]

I find it disturbing that the AAMC designated the representative for the EAM metrics to be an individual with an academic background of rhetoric and ethnic studies (their professed designation, not mine). Coming myself from an eclectic background and believing heavily in academic diversity I fundamentally would not trust someone who lists a noun as their priority skill and for that noun to be "non-profits" is even more troubling.

 

[Chimichica]

Someone mentioned faux activities but you have to list contact info, why would someone risk their app being rejected due to false info. It's just like when you apply for a job, if you lie on the app you won't get the job and you could get blackballed. Or am I missing something? I don't think people really go through with stuff like that. Unless you're talking about hobbies...but that just makes you look like a fraudulent frog...and a tool.

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[drmantistobbogan]

What are your thoughts on combining poster presentations into one activity? Seems like posters are a dime a dozen doesnt make sense on wasting multiple entries for them.

I'm not familiar with the structure of the AMCAS app, but I always assumed that publications and presentations are to be left off of the activities section. For me, it makes more sense that you would list the research as the activity, not the poster presentation. I'd be curious to see what the norm is, since I don't want to short-change myself if it is common for those to be listed.

 

[libertyyne]

I'm not familiar with the structure of the AMCAS app, but I always assumed that publications and presentations are to be left off of the activities section. For me, it makes more sense that you would list the research as the activity, not the poster presentation. I'd be curious to see what the norm is, since I don't want to short-change myself if it is common for those to be listed.

AMCAS thought it was important enough to create category drop down "posters/presentations".

 

[drmantistobbogan]

AMCAS thought it was important enough to create category drop down "posters/presentations".

Well, I'll be...
Back to your original question then, if I milked the hell out of a poster and presented it three times, it would make the most sense to combine it under one entry, right?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Well, I'll be...
Back to your original question then, if I milked the hell out of a poster and presented it three times, it would make the most sense to combine it under one entry, right?

I've seen it suggested a few times, not the least of which by @Lawper, that all posters and presentations should/could be listed under the same entry and all pubs under a separate entry. This saves space and doesn't look like you're padding.

 

[Biological]

I've seen it suggested a few times, not the least of which by @Lawper, that all posters and presentations should/could be listed under the same entry and all pubs under a separate entry. This saves space and doesn't look like you're padding.

This seems like a really weird way to to do it for me... If I did that, I'd have 3 entries for the same thing - a research project that I published and presented.

 

[Joemm426]

• >1000 hours working as caregiver for paraplegic lawyer
• 500 hours playing saxophone
• 350 hours as volunteer and volunteer coordinator of intensive care unit
• 150 hours shadowing trauma surgeon, general surgeon, pathologists, palliative care doctors, and intensive care doctors
• 100 hours taking notes for and tutoring deaf student
• 100 hours assisting paralyzed stroke patient stretch and swim in pool

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This seems like a really weird way to to do it for me... If I did that, I'd have 3 entries for the same thing - a research project that I published and presented.

Obviously tailor as necessary, but if you have an entry for all your presentations, I don't see what's weird about listing it there and also under your research experience. I have pubs that I am listing all under one slot and then listing the actual research hours and experience under a separate one. The project that yielded a poster will go under the research spot as well, and the poster will be with the other posters. Pretty straightforward.

 

[Lawpy]

This seems like a really weird way to to do it for me... If I did that, I'd have 3 entries for the same thing - a research project that I published and presented.

Obviously tailor as necessary, but if you have an entry for all your presentations, I don't see what's weird about listing it there and also under your research experience. I have pubs that I am listing all under one slot and then listing the actual research hours and experience under a separate one. The project that yielded a poster will go under the research spot as well, and the poster will be with the other posters. Pretty straightforward.

it's redundant. you don't have to use the publications and presentations slots if you don't want to. instead, you can list everything into the research experiences category. but listing pubs/posters in the research experience category and listing them separately is double counting/redundant.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

it's redundant. you don't have to use the publications and presentations slots if you don't want to. instead, you can list everything into the research experiences category. but listing pubs/posters in the research experience category and listing them separately is double counting/redundant.

I remember reading a few posts on here by an adcom or two saying to list the research experience with the hours and then list all the pubs in a separate slot with the hours as zero. *shrug*

 

[Lawpy]

I remember reading a few posts on here by an adcom or two saying to list the research experience with the hours and then lost all the pubs in a separate slot with the hours as zero. *shrug*

yeah but someone mentioned about listing pubs/posters citations in the research category as well as listing them separately. there's no reason or that. the reason why there are posters and publications categories is to save up space in the research experience category to talk about the actual experience. the posters and publications categories just have citations to the works done and 0 hours listed.

if there is only one poster and one publication, it's probably better to group everything into one category under research with the appropriate experience descriptions listed. these are just guidelines to help make the AMCAS Works and Activities section concise and thorough.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

yeah but someone mentioned about listing pubs/posters citations in the research category as well as listing them separately. there's no reason or that. the reason why there are posters and publications categories is to save up space in the research experience category to talk about the actual experience. the posters and publications categories just have citations to the works done and 0 hours listed.

if there is only one poster and one publication, it's probably better to group everything into one category under research with the appropriate experience descriptions listed. these are just guidelines to help make the AMCAS Works and Activities section concise and thorough.

Oh, yeah. That's not what I meant. I meant listing the experiences themselves separately and then listing the pubs/presentations in their own slots as citations. Not including them in both. That would definitely be redundant.

And yes, I agree that if you only have one research project with associated pubs/posters, then you should list them all together. Hence my "tailor as needed" comment.

 

[drmantistobbogan]

So it looks like I'll be at a minimum of 12 entries just between all of my research, volunteering, etc. According to what was said earlier, it would probably be best to not list publications and presentations as separate entries?

 

[Lawpy]

Oh, yeah. That's not what I meant. I meant listing the experiences themselves separately and then listing the pubs/presentations in their own slots as citations. Not including them in both. That would definitely be redundant.

And yes, I agree that if you only have one research project with associated pubs/posters, then you should list them all together. Hence my "tailor as needed" comment.

yep the key objective is to make the Works and Activities section concise and thorough. and it's better to have 10 activities thoroughly listed than stretching all the way to 15 with some sections really weak.

So it looks like I'll be at a minimum of 12 entries just between all of my research, volunteering, etc. According to what was said earlier, it would probably be best to not list publications and presentations as separate entries?

if you have several publications and presentations, listing them separately makes sense to save space for the actual research descriptions. if you have only one publication/presentation or very few, combining them with the research description is probably better.

 

[Biological]

yeah but someone mentioned about listing pubs/posters citations in the research category as well as listing them separately. there's no reason or that. the reason why there are posters and publications categories is to save up space in the research experience category to talk about the actual experience. the posters and publications categories just have citations to the works done and 0 hours listed.

if there is only one poster and one publication, it's probably better to group everything into one category under research with the appropriate experience descriptions listed. these are just guidelines to help make the AMCAS Works and Activities section concise and thorough.

Sorry, I explained what I was thinking poorly. I think I understand what everyone is getting at though.

Would it be reasonable to list the posters under the research experience and list the publications associated with the same research experience in their own category (not include them under the research category, or potentially just say something along the lines of "resulted in x publications"? That way there's a "research + posters" experience and a "publications" experience. That makes a little more sense to me.

 

[mardybum]

How do you get a contact and hours for hobbies? For example, I love art and have done various projects (e.g. design for posters and t shirts, college exhibit, etc.) and I also make cards/draw ina sketchpad in my free time. I have NO idea how many hours that is though. Would it be ok to use a friend my age (who asked me to design t shirts for school events) as a reference?

 

[esob]

Hmm, I find being a parent, especially to two special needs children is actually the hardest, and most consuming job I've held in life. It certainly was harder than the years I spent in the army as a combat medic or as the NCOIC of a lab section in a level 1 trauma center; or running a corp with millions in annual revenue, but I guess if those things look better to an adcom I'll just list them first, lol.

 

[freak7]

Hmm, I find being a parent, especially to two special needs children is actually the hardest, and most consuming job I've held in life. It certainly was harder than the years I spent in the army as a combat medic or as the NCOIC of a lab section in a level 1 trauma center; or running a corp with millions in annual revenue, but I guess if those things look better to an adcom I'll just list them first, lol.

I would think that the bolded portion would be what separates your experiences from a generic "I'm a parent" entry.

 

[flip_08]

I would think that the bolded portion would be what separates your experiences from a generic "I'm a parent" entry.

Agreed, but it's still not an activity. Experiences like these could be included in a personal statement, diversity essay, secondary essays, ect and make for great content, but I still don't think it's an appropriate thing to put in an activity section.

 

[Med Ed]

Hmm, I find being a parent, especially to two special needs children is actually the hardest, and most consuming job I've held in life. It certainly was harder than the years I spent in the army as a combat medic or as the NCOIC of a lab section in a level 1 trauma center; or running a corp with millions in annual revenue, but I guess if those things look better to an adcom I'll just list them first, lol.

Agree with @flip_08 that this is not what the activities section is for. Save it for a space where you might do it some justice.

 

[freak7]

Agree with @flip_08 that this is not what the activities section is for. Save it for a space where you might do it some justice.

Good to know. Thanks!

 

[Goro]

Trying to get credit for being a parent, even for special needs kids, is like trying to list breathing s an EC.

We expect people to take care of their kids. Doing it for others is called altruism, and we want that in candidates.

Hmm, I find being a parent, especially to two special needs children is actually the hardest, and most consuming job I've held in life. It certainly was harder than the years I spent in the army as a combat medic or as the NCOIC of a lab section in a level 1 trauma center; or running a corp with millions in annual revenue, but I guess if those things look better to an adcom I'll just list them first, lol.

 

[esob]

Trying to get credit for being a parent, even for special needs kids, is like trying to list breathing s an EC.

We expect people to take care of their kids. Doing it for others is called altruism, and we want that in candidates.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not something everyone does or even that taking care of one's offspring isn't a self serving activity (I'll toss my years of military service out there for the altruism card), I'm just saying it is the most difficult task I've undertook. In a given week I spent as many hours shuffling kids to and from doctors appointments as I do in class and it's typical at least a couple times a year for me to go from class, directly to the hospital where one of them is an inpatient. The experience is a large part of why I'm pursuing medicine. It may not sound as impressive as my corporate duties as an AML + KYC compliance officer dealing with FinCEN and half a dozen international jurisdictional authorities while securing 7 figures worth of cryptocurrency transactions annually, but it is a more significant part of who I am as a candidate. Perhaps not appropriate for the activities section but certainly a qualifier for my ability to care for other human beings.

 

[wysdoc]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not something everyone does or even that taking care of one's offspring isn't a self serving activity (I'll toss my years of military service out there for the altruism card), I'm just saying it is the most difficult task I've undertook. In a given week I spent as many hours shuffling kids to and from doctors appointments as I do in class and it's typical at least a couple times a year for me to go from class, directly to the hospital where one of them is an inpatient. The experience is a large part of why I'm pursuing medicine. It may not sound as impressive as my corporate duties as an AML + KYC compliance officer dealing with FinCEN and half a dozen international jurisdictional authorities while securing 7 figures worth of cryptocurrency transactions annually, but it is a more significant part of who I am as a candidate. Perhaps not appropriate for the activities section but certainly a qualifier for my ability to care for other human beings.

This would fit better in an "overcoming obstacles" essay or as a part of your personal statement.

 

[Goro]

First off, many thanks to you for your service to our country. Hoooooahh!


But I want to pass on some advice. I have seen candidates go down in flames when they tried to exert the logic that being a parent qualifies them to take care of other people. It does not. So for your own sake, don't go there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not something everyone does or even that taking care of one's offspring isn't a self serving activity (I'll toss my years of military service out there for the altruism card), I'm just saying it is the most difficult task I've undertook. In a given week I spent as many hours shuffling kids to and from doctors appointments as I do in class and it's typical at least a couple times a year for me to go from class, directly to the hospital where one of them is an inpatient. The experience is a large part of why I'm pursuing medicine. It may not sound as impressive as my corporate duties as an AML + KYC compliance officer dealing with FinCEN and half a dozen international jurisdictional authorities while securing 7 figures worth of cryptocurrency transactions annually, but it is a more significant part of who I am as a candidate. Perhaps not appropriate for the activities section but certainly a qualifier for my ability to care for other human beings.

 

[esob]

First off, many thanks to you for your service to our country. Hoooooahh!


But I want to pass on some advice. I have seen candidates go down in flames when they tried to exert the logic that being a parent qualifies them to take care of other people. It does not. So for your own sake, don't go there.

I'm nothing if not a pragmatist, so if I must wear a monkey suit to get into the zoo, someone sign me out a size medium While I disagree with the logic, I'm also smart enough to just smile and nod my head if that's what it takes. Thankfully I've met some really wonderful docs who disagree with that sentiment so I know I'm not entirely alone in feeling it does have some pertinence (not so much being a parent, but being a parent of somehow who requires intense, lifelong medical care). One of those docs is actually a professor at a Texas med school. Maybe it just means I look forward to sitting on an adcom myself one day and interjecting a "different" POV

 

[Med Ed]

but it is a more significant part of who I am as a candidate.

I don't think anyone is arguing with you on this point.

 

[stickgirl390]

I wish I had known some of these tips before I applied back in June. Thanks for the advice!

 

[libertyyne]

I'm nothing if not a pragmatist, so if I must wear a monkey suit to get into the zoo, someone sign me out a size medium While I disagree with the logic, I'm also smart enough to just smile and nod my head if that's what it takes. Thankfully I've met some really wonderful docs who disagree with that sentiment so I know I'm not entirely alone in feeling it does have some pertinence (not so much being a parent, but being a parent of somehow who requires intense, lifelong medical care). One of those docs is actually a professor at a Texas med school. Maybe it just means I look forward to sitting on an adcom myself one day and interjecting a "different" POV

I would be afraid of unconscious bias along the lines of , He she won't be able to complete medical school in time since they have such a large time commitment at home .