1st Gun Experience

[deleted480308]

What type of holsters do you guys prefer when carrying?

Crossbreed made my inside the waistband holster.....love it

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[NightNight]

Sick burn, guy. I know, I know, don't feed the trolls, but I can't help myself pointing out that your signature carries a quote "It's better to have what you don't need, than need what you don't have." Sage advice, might even apply to a small, readily available weapon for self-defense....

 

[sevoflurane]

Sick burn, guy. I know, I know, don't feed the trolls, but I can't help myself pointing out that your signature carries a quote "It's better to have what you don't need, than need what you don't have." Sage advice, might even apply to a small, readily available weapon for self-defense....

DM is no troll. Been on here for eeons...

And he's been working on his self defense weapons for years.

J/K DM....

 

[countingdays]

NAA Pug vs DM?
Sorry Dream it's tougher than it looks.

I thought you gave up SDN or something. Long time no see.

 

[NightNight]

No disrespect meant to a veteran poster, haha, but did find humor in the contrast between the e-card posted and the signature tagline.

 

[DreamMachine]

LOL Sevo Gypsy

Sick burn, guy. I know, I know, don't feed the trolls, but I can't help myself pointing out that your signature carries a quote "It's better to have what you don't need, than need what you don't have." Sage advice, might even apply to a small, readily available weapon for self-defense....

True true. I just thought it was a funny e-card, dude. Nothing serious about it. I couldn't find a good thread to put it in. I have no problem with guns for self defense. I don't believe there is gonna be a zombie apocalypse though.

 

[DreamMachine]

I'm thinking of getting a Beretta Inos PX4 Storm. Anyone have anything bad to say about this model?

 

[BLADEMDA]

I'm thinking of getting a Beretta Inos PX4 Storm. Anyone have anything bad to say about this model?

I own a PX4 Storm. Never Jams. No FTEs/FTFs. But, the least accurate gun at the range of all my 9mm. The rotating barrel minimizes recoil quite well but the price you pay is accuracy. Instead of getting 1/2 inch accuracy at 50 feet the PX4 is about 2 inches (or so it seems to me). I like the gun especially with the 20 round mags in 9mm but again not a great target gun.

The .40 caliber PX4 is a soft shooting pistol and quite nice as well. Overall, I recommend my CZ Sp-01 or a Glock 19 over a PX4. The Beretta 92 is also more accurate than the PX4. Sig makes nice guns as well in 9mm.

The PX4 9mm is so easy to shoot that you can dump an entire magazine in just a few seconds and hit the target (not necessarily bullseye though). It is an extremely reliable, easy to shoot and clean gun. (If I needed to carry a PX4 or a Glock 19 I would choose the PX4 for safety reasons.)

 

[BLADEMDA]

Too heavy for Carry purposes but great at the range and for home defense. I own multiple CZs including a Custom Shadow model.
Unless you collect guns save your money and buy the $650 CZ SP-O1. It is all the gun you will ever need.


http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-75-sp-01/

 

[doctor712]

Just a little denouement as I realize the thread has moved on. Today Dianne Feinstein (who I am CERTAINLY not a fan of generally speaking), has promised to re-introduce the Assault Weapons Ban when Congress returns in 2013. Grandfathered in assault weapons will either need to be a) registered and tracked and b) kept safe with a trigger lock.

My prediction is this will pass and the assault weapons ban will be back in play shortly.

After time, there will be less of these military weapons on the US streets.

That's part one. Other parts need to be handled: other gun issues, and also mental health and school safety.

Here is a quote from Feinstein today:

"But small children have a basic right to go to a school and feel safe. And these guns, because they kill large numbers of people very quickly, they aren't used for hunting, they aren't hunting weapons. You don't need them for defense. They are military-style weapons. And they don't belong in the streets of our cities or our towns."

Carry on. I will never own one of these guns, even though I could, and will only stick to a self defense weapon, a 9mm.

What a great comment: small children have a basic right to goto school and feel safe. Should be the next amendment to the USCONS.

Be well all,
D712

 

[deleted480308]

There were no military weapons used in the shooting, military weapons are fully automatic select fire

 

[WashMe]

d712, there were no assault weapons used in the CT shooting. There was one assault weapon found in a car, but Lanza only used 2 handguns. The majority of gun crimes, including mass murders, are committed with small arms like your beloved 9mm.

The constitution says we have the right to keep and bear arms. Now let's consider what an "arm" is: "a weapon, arm, or armament is a tool or instrument used in order to inflict damage or harm to enemies or other living beings, structures, or systems".

An arm is not expressly used for hunting, and the Constitution never implies that arms must be owned only for hunting. Quite the opposite, actually.

Grow up.

 

[nap$ter]

QUOTE][/QUOTE]

d712, there were no assault weapons used in the CT shooting. There was one assault weapon found in a car, but Lanza only used 2 handguns. The majority of gun crimes, including mass murders, are committed with small arms like your beloved 9mm.
The constitution says we have the right to keep and bear arms. Now let's consider what an "arm" is: "a weapon, arm, or armament is a tool or instrument used in order to inflict damage or harm to enemies or other living beings, structures, or systems".

An arm is not expressly used for hunting, and the Constitution never implies that arms must be owned only for hunting. Quite the opposite, actually.

Grow up.

not defending d712, but i don't think that's true. a bushmaster .223 AR15 was used for most of the CT shooting, the perp's suicide was by pistol, and a shotgun was found in the car.

also while most homicide is by handgun, most recent mass killings have been by long gun ie batman shooting, norway shooting, CT school shooting, etc.

my preferred carry is a kahr cm9 - took a couple hundred rounds to loosen the slide a bit but now i'm more accurate with my little kahr than any of my glocks.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Police: Boy was buckling booster seat when dad's gun fired, killing him, outside Pa. gun store


Published December 09, 2012

Associated Press




MERCER, Pa. – State police in western Pennsylvania say a 7-year-old boy who was killed when his father's gun went off outside a gun store had been buckling himself into a safety seat in the man's truck.

The boy was shot Saturday morning at Twigs Reloading Den in East Lackawannock Township, 60 miles north of Pittsburgh.

State police say the boy's father, 44-year-old Joseph V. Loughrey, didn't realize a bullet was still in the chamber. Seven-year-old Craig Allen Loughrey was shot in the chest in the backseat.

Lt. Eric Hermick said Sunday the father had secured a rifle in the back of the truck and placed a pistol on the console when the handgun went off.

Hermick says the father had been trying to sell the guns.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/0...im-outside-pa/?intcmp=obnetwork#ixzz2FQVVnogJ

 

[BLADEMDA]

Gun sales surge after Connecticut massacre


By William La Jeunesse

Published December 18, 2012

FoxNews.com


Yet, statistics show, unlike handguns or shotguns, rifles account for only a fraction of homicides in the United States. Of 12,664 murder victims last year, only 323 were killed with rifles, according to the FBI.

Both the Paducah, Ky., and Columbine, Colo., mass school killings occurred during the 10-year ban. In Paducah, the killer used a .22 caliber long rifle, 12 gauge pump-action shotgun and a Ruger MK II .22-caliber pistol.

In Columbine, the shooters used 99 explosive devices, a 12 gauge pump action shotgun. Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm carbine, a 9 mm Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun, and a 12-gauge Stevens 311D double-barreled sawed-off shotgun.

In 2007, the Virginia Tech shooter used a Glock and Walther handgun to kill 32 and wounded 17


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/18/gun-sales-surge-after-connecticut-massacre/#ixzz2FQWuWN00








Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/18/gun-sales-surge-after-connecticut-massacre/#ixzz2FQWc4t6d

 

[DreamMachine]

I own a PX4 Storm. Never Jams. No FTEs/FTFs. But, the least accurate gun at the range of all my 9mm. The rotating barrel minimizes recoil quite well but the price you pay is accuracy. Instead of getting 1/2 inch accuracy at 50 feet the PX4 is about 2 inches (or so it seems to me). I like the gun especially with the 20 round mags in 9mm but again not a great target gun.

The .40 caliber PX4 is a soft shooting pistol and quite nice as well. Overall, I recommend my CZ Sp-01 or a Glock 19 over a PX4. The Beretta 92 is also more accurate than the PX4. Sig makes nice guns as well in 9mm.

The PX4 9mm is so easy to shoot that you can dump an entire magazine in just a few seconds and hit the target (not necessarily bullseye though). It is an extremely reliable, easy to shoot and clean gun. (If I needed to carry a PX4 or a Glock 19 I would choose the PX4 for safety reasons.)

Thanks for the input, Blade. I'm gonna also take a look at those two pistols you mention.

 

[jwk]

My prediction is this will pass and the assault weapons ban will be back in play shortly.

After time, there will be less of these military weapons on the US streets.

First - there won't be fewer of these weapons on the street. Eric Holder will make them available through some try-before-you-buy treaty with Mexico.

You are absolutely, totally, kidding yourself if you think the AWB will have any effect. It might make you feel better - but the reality is totally different. But hey, that's what you're into - all the "touchy-feely let's all sing kum-bay-yah so we can feel better about ourselves" nonsense, like your proposed Constitutional amendment. Big on touchy-feely, woefully short on anything definitive, common-sense, practical, or enforcable.

 

[IlDestriero]

So assuming that the weapons ban returns shortly on assault style weapons, what is the current state of the art weapon that I should get now before it's too late. This could be the last opportunity.
Assume my budget is ~$6000. Does that cover the best of the best?
The only caveat is that it cannot take some exotic ammo that could become hard to source.
I'm not worried about the zombie apocalypse, but maybe pirates. Yeah, pirates, or deer. Rabid deer.

 

[deleted480308]

So assuming that the weapons ban returns shortly on assault style weapons, what is the current state of the art weapon that I should get now before it's too late. This could be the last opportunity.
Assume my budget is ~$6000. Does that cover the best of the best?
The only caveat is that it cannot take some exotic ammo that could become hard to source.
I'm not worried about the zombie apocalypse, but maybe pirates. Yeah, pirates, or deer. Rabid deer.

buy an ar-15 in either .223/556......it's the standard platform and there are millions of accessories out there already made for it

 

[sevoflurane]

So assuming that the weapons ban returns shortly on assault style weapons, what is the current state of the art weapon that I should get now before it's too late. This could be the last opportunity.
Assume my budget is ~$6000. Does that cover the best of the best?
The only caveat is that it cannot take some exotic ammo that could become hard to source.
I'm not worried about the zombie apocalypse, but maybe pirates. Yeah, pirates, or deer. Rabid deer.

Wacha think PGG... still a solid choice?

Been eyeing this guy for some time now.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=lgplp-556-sb

I was also told that the Colt AR-15 is pretty solid.

 

[hoyden]

I am still eagerly awaiting the reply from PGG, Blade (who I respect immensely and he knows that), Periop and other pro-2nd amendment Doctors here regarding the study I posted:

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html

It is NOT a study. It is a REVIEW of the literature.

here's the real study, showing that Brady's law ( 1994 ban) did NOT have any impact on suicide and homicide rates on everybody 55 years or younger. It did reduce the rate of suicide for 55 and older


http://www.guncite.com/JAMABradysurvey.pdf

http://archive.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/8/6/232429

 

[sevoflurane]

... also diggin' the MP5, but will likely go for the AR15.

 

[jwk]

It is NOT a study. It is a REVIEW of the literature.

here's the real study, showing that Bradly's law ( 1994 ban) did NOT have any impact on suicide and homicide rates on everybody 55 years or younger. It did reduce the rate of suicide for 55 and older


http://www.guncite.com/JAMABradysurvey.pdf

http://archive.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/8/6/232429

Oh c'mon - it was written by some liberal Hahvaad twit - it HAS to be the truth - just like anything appearing in the NYT.

 

[hoyden]

Oh c'mon - it was written by some liberal Hahvaad twit - it HAS to be the truth - just like anything appearing in the NYT.

Even NYT had to concede on bare statistics:

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/02/us/study-disputes-success-of-the-brady-law.html

 

[doctor712]

d712, there were no assault weapons used in the CT shooting. There was one assault weapon found in a car, but Lanza only used 2 handguns. The majority of gun crimes, including mass murders, are committed with small arms like your beloved 9mm.

The constitution says we have the right to keep and bear arms. Now let's consider what an "arm" is: "a weapon, arm, or armament is a tool or instrument used in order to inflict damage or harm to enemies or other living beings, structures, or systems".

An arm is not expressly used for hunting, and the Constitution never implies that arms must be owned only for hunting. Quite the opposite, actually.

Grow up.

Wash me,

Read the news. Then reply. The bushmaster killed EVERYONE in that school.
You clearly turned off the news after day one.

D712

 

[doctor712]

Oh c'mon - it was written by some liberal Hahvaad twit - it HAS to be the truth - just like anything appearing in the NYT.

Yeah, you know better. We should listen to your news channel JWK.

D712

 

[countingdays]

... also diggin' the MP5, but will likely go for the AR15.

My AK will be plugging away when your AR-15s have long lost functionability.

Don't mind me, been drinking too much gløgg.

 

[doctor712]

Change the playing field. I support a 28th amendment.
"Children have a basic right to goto school and feel safe."

If we added that amendment in, instead of amendments about alcohol, congressional pay, we would be protecting kids like never before in this troubled society. then, if this existed, we could let SCOTUS give states rights to regulate even more, and have a way to allow people to carry PERSONAL arms and justify why an AR-15 could no longer be produced, imported etc. like all other military weapons. A slow erosion to the VAST LAPERRIER mandate that is the NRA.

They're losing their power. The tide has swung and everyone reading this, including every news station that reports it today, the NRA is about to get theirs.

Someone debate with me, why that amendment SHOULDN'T BE written and how it COULSNT help by allowing new mental health funding and school security and redefine the 2nd amendments sweeping power. It would completely reframe the debate and curtail the meaning of the right to bear arms. Period.

D712

 

[sevoflurane]

Duration for precision... right?

You can drop an AK in mud and sand and it will still fire. Even so, it's not a very precise instrument.

Had my wife behind an AK a couple months back...

 

[jwk]

Yeah, you know better. We should listen to your news channel JWK.

D712

Fox News among others - I'm absolutely positive it beats anything you're listening to.

 

[jwk]

Change the playing field. I support a 28th amendment.
"Children have a basic right to goto school and feel safe."

If we added that amendment in, instead of amendments about alcohol, congressional pay, we would be protecting kids like never before in this troubled society. then, if this existed, we could let SCOTUS give states rights to regulate even more, and have a way to allow people to carry PERSONAL arms and justify why an AR-15 could no longer be produced, imported etc. like all other military weapons. A slow erosion to the VAST LAPERRIER mandate that is the NRA.

They're losing their power. The tide has swung and everyone reading this, including every news station that reports it today, the NRA is about to get theirs.

Someone debate with me, why that amendment SHOULDN'T BE written and how it COULSNT help by allowing new mental health funding and school security and redefine the 2nd amendments sweeping power. It would completely reframe the debate and curtail the meaning of the right to bear arms. Period.

D712

In theory you're an intelligent guy. Explain to me how this wholly subjective touchy-feely amendment would work.

Don't you get it? Why should law-abiding citizens have to "curtail" THEIR RIGHT to bear arms? Do you REALLY think that will help? Really? Why don't we just give government ALL the guns - except of course for the ones the criminals won't turn over? Then what?

 

[doctor712]

JWK,

I will be glad to discuss such an amendment, and how it WOULD HELP AMERICA BECOME A BETTER PLACE. As soon as I get back home tonight in about 6 hours. Or in the AM.
In the meantime, place down your AR-15, and just...think outside the box and open your mind.

Cute news bite though, "touchy feely", that's your new slogan. Yeah, myself, a Mayor's Coalition, Democrats in Congress, the PUBLIC, and even some - gasp Repubs, not to mention corporations etc, have been saying since Friday -- this is different and changes the dynamic. Sorry, JWK, the tide is swinging, just flip on Fox News.

It's funny, it's not the thugs doing this mass shootings, is it. They only kill 30,000 people a year in the US with their guns. These mass shootings are young males, mentally ill, and your solution is: to look away?

Fantastic thinking for a (truly) intelligent Doctor. Let's put our heads in the sand.

As for the 2nd amendment, I'm not going to re-hash that, I've stated what REINTERPRETATION needs to be done, and I think this has begun in the US. This isn't about curtailing your right to bear an arm -- it's about BETTER DEFINING your right to bear an arm. What an arm is. What is "well regulated". And what an ARM is not (i.e. a military weapon). And if that means less of a right, GOOD. Constitution is a living doc. It's very touchy feely at times. Now is the time, sorry to break the bad news for you. I'll work on a solution, you stand there and shrug your shoulders...

As for the "28th amendment," sarcasm aside, I think you are looking at this too specifically and literally. It will simply afford more debate, rights and methods to regulating things the way the G wants to so that they don't have to hear from you, "Well, forgot those 20 kids, what about the 2nd amendment." It's a device. A mechanism. A perfectly logical, valid means to cut the NRA down at their knees. I mean, that doesn't both you, does it?

D712

 

[doctor712]

Fox News among others - I'm absolutely positive it beats anything you're listening to.

Hilarious, you did NOT need to elaborate on the news station you prefer... no brainer.

 

[jwk]

Hilarious, you did NOT need to elaborate on the news station you prefer... no brainer.

I know - Matt Lauer and Brian Williams are your buds - along with Stephanopolous and that idiot debate moderator from CNN. All bastions of impartiality and honest reporting.

 

[jwk]

JWK,

I will be glad to discuss such an amendment, and how it WOULD HELP AMERICA BECOME A BETTER PLACE. As soon as I get back home tonight in about 6 hours. Or in the AM.
In the meantime, place down your AR-15, and just...think outside the box and open your mind.

Cute news bite though, "touchy feely", that's your new slogan. Yeah, myself, a Mayor's Coalition, Democrats in Congress, the PUBLIC, and even some - gasp Repubs, not to mention corporations etc, have been saying since Friday -- this is different and changes the dynamic. Sorry, JWK, the tide is swinging, just flip on Fox News.

It's funny, it's not the thugs doing this mass shootings, is it. They only kill 30,000 people a year in the US with their guns. These mass shootings are young males, mentally ill, and your solution is: to look away?

Fantastic thinking for a (truly) intelligent Doctor. Let's put our heads in the sand.

As for the 2nd amendment, I'm not going to re-hash that, I've stated what REINTERPRETATION needs to be done, and I think this has begun in the US. This isn't about curtailing your right to bear an arm -- it's about BETTER DEFINING your right to bear an arm. What an arm is. What is "well regulated". And what an ARM is not (i.e. a military weapon). And if that means less of a right, GOOD. Constitution is a living doc. It's very touchy feely at times. Now is the time, sorry to break the bad news for you. I'll work on a solution, you stand there and shrug your shoulders...

As for the "28th amendment," sarcasm aside, I think you are looking at this too specifically and literally. It will simply afford more debate, rights and methods to regulating things the way the G wants to so that they don't have to hear from you, "Well, forgot those 20 kids, what about the 2nd amendment." It's a device. A mechanism. A perfectly logical, valid means to cut the NRA down at their knees. I mean, that doesn't both you, does it?

D712

Here's a nice piece from CainTV that's short, sweet, succinct, and spot on...

Politics: Joe Lieberman targets violent video games – completely misses the point


Published by: Robert Laurie on Tuesday December 18th, 2012

By ROBERT LAURIE - Lieberman struggles to find a scapegoat.

Today, Joe Lieberman took to the floor of the Senate and blamed violent video games for creating people like the Sandy Hook killer. There's nothing really new here, since he's been beating this drum since Sunday morning. Sadly, he's just as wrong now as he was then.

Rather than deal with the complex issues posed by a decaying culture, the left is looking for a convenient scapegoat – just as they do with firearms. Lieberman's boogeyman of choice happens to be video games. Others blame movies, while the majority of lefties go straight for the 2nd Amendment.

The faces change, but the instinct to "solve" the violence problem by controlling what Americans do in their free time remains constant.

"Very often – and I've heard rumors of this being the case with Adam Lanza in Newtown, I don't know for sure so I'm not saying it as any more than a rumor," Lieberman said this morning. "Very often these young men have an almost hypnotic involvement in some form of violence in our entertainment culture, particularly violent video games, and then they obtain guns and become not just troubled young men but mass murderers."

Unfortunately, the difference here is that many on the right agree with Lieberman. The GOP's social conservatives have long fought the 2nd Amendment battle, but they've been notoriously squishy when it comes to protecting the 1st. This is the same brand of Republican that, back in the 80's, was eager to join Al & Tipper Gore in their crusade to eliminate raunchy song lyrics.

They ended up settling for warning labels, but the first instinct was to ban objectionable speech in a myopic attempt to fix society's ills.

Twenty-five years later, that's still their go-to position.

Yet, take a look at the numbers. In its first week of release, Call of Duty: Black Ops II (the latest release in a popular, violent, military shooting series) sold 11 Million copies. Within 15 days of release, it had reached $1 Billion in global sales - and that's just one title out of hundreds.

There are, as there are with guns, a LOT of people who own these games. The notion that you can end mass murder by sacrificing millions of people's 1st Amendment rights is just as ludicrous as is the idea that you can halt gun crime by demolishing the 2nd. All you'll end up doing is punishing the law-abiding majority, while failing to do anything about the miniscule criminal minority.

The solution lies with mental health and how we raise our kids. Don't want your children to play violent games? Great. Don't let them.

Just don't tear down the 1st Amendment because you can't be bothered to be a parent.​

 

[doctor712]

Like PGG, you're in it for yourself. You don't really care about the militia or the public's right, you just wanna keep your toys...

See you on the flip side of the Feinstein ban. Let's catch up in 20 years, yes? Maybe 50? 75?

n.b. I despise Matt Lauer but you keep trying to peg me in a hole.

D712

 

[BADMD]

, there were no assault weapons used in the CT shooting. There was one assault weapon found in a car, but Lanza only used 2 handguns.

This was an early report. Like many of the reported "facts" reported early on (like the shooter's identity), it is probably not correct. Frankly, I'm waiting for a comprehensive after report before I believe many of the "details".

 

[pgg]

So assuming that the weapons ban returns shortly on assault style weapons, what is the current state of the art weapon that I should get now before it's too late. This could be the last opportunity.

I would not freak out about a new ban too much. Everything we've heard about a new ban has come Feinstein et al and of course Obama. Funny how, just months ago, the people who said he favored gun control were laughed or called crazy & paranoid. He had the political sense to avoid the issue in his first term ... and of course, as he told the Russian president Medvedev, now that his last election is behind him, he has more room to openly say and attempt to do what he really wants. If Feinstein had introduced another AWB with open support from Obama in October, Romney's inauguration would be just a few weeks away. But I digress.

We've heard from at least one NRA A-rated Democrat from WV who is open to more regulation. This is getting a lot of press, but it means little.

A better observation might be to take note of who we haven't heard from. Republican reps. Who have a solid, solid majority in the House. Who surely remember who got voted out of office in the election immediately following the 1994 ban. Who like most people in Congress care mostly about re-election first and everything else second.


There will be no sweeping ban of semiautomatic rifles. I give poor odds to even a high-cap magazine ban passing.

I bet we get nothing substantive.

In fact, I bet we continue the current trajectory of improving gun rights, particularly in the carry arena, over the next few years. For the simple reason that the battlefield that matters right now is the court system, and the Heller/McDonald 5 majority will very likely remain intact through Obama's second term.


I am not buying anything special now.

Assume my budget is ~$6000. Does that cover the best of the best?
The only caveat is that it cannot take some exotic ammo that could become hard to source.
I'm not worried about the zombie apocalypse, but maybe pirates. Yeah, pirates, or deer. Rabid deer.

$6000 is a huge budget for an AR type gun (5.56/.223). You can spend $800 for a good cheap no-name AR that will go bang every time you squeeze the trigger and be as accurate as the ammo you feed to it, $1200 for the classic Colt 6920, $1500 for something maybe a little nicer, or $2000+ for a high end Noveske or comparable brand.

Keep in mind though that what the extra $ gets you may not really matter for your intended use ... things like free-floated barrels, match barrels, two-stage triggers, whatever Magpul stock is cool this week, rails, flip up sights will all add cost quickly. If all you really want is an AR15 that can hit what you aim at out to a few hundred yards, maybe the extra money is better spent on ammunition and range fees to actually shoot it.

$2-3000+ gets you into high end ARs chambered in .308 but I don't often suggest those as a first AR ... heavier, more recoil, more expensive to feed, louder. I see new buyers occasionally start with the AR10 (.308/7.62mm) platform first because they want the bigger round, and get disappointed with how unwieldy they can be.

If you're in a state that permits them, I'd put $1000-1500 of that budget toward a suppressor. They really make shooting more pleasant. Usually not hearing-safe, but close to it, with less recoil. Definitely a plus if you have kids shooting with you, or people who are unsure. The paperwork is a pain, but it's a one-time pain ... the wait sucks, but before you know it the 6 months are up and you've got it.

If you're not sure what you want, and you really think a ban is imminent, buy a Colt 6920 if you can find one in stock anywhere, and buy a couple of stripped lower receivers for $100-150 each and get the rest of the parts later. The receiver is the only regulated part. That one piece of serialized metal is the "gun" in the eyes of the law. In time, you can then buy either complete upper assemblies or get the parts you want and put them together. (They're like legos, anyone can put an AR together with $20 in tools and a couple hours of time.)

Wacha think PGG... still a solid choice?

Been eyeing this guy for some time now.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=lgplp-556-sb

I was also told that the Colt AR-15 is pretty solid.

Noveske makes great rifles. The $ is probably a fair bit past the sum of the components you get, but you'd be hard pressed to find a better off-the-shelf high end AR. I think periopdoc just bought one, albeit a short-barreled/NFA regulated one.

A Colt 6920 was the first AR I ever bought. I still like to shoot it. I went through a couple optics on it, red dots, ACOGs, a variable power scope ... now it's back to just plain old iron sights. Light and simple.

 

[BLADEMDA]

... also diggin' the MP5, but will likely go for the AR15.

Nice!!

 

[pgg]

My AK will be plugging away when your AR-15s have long lost functionability.

There's something beautiful about a gun that has "pipe wrench" amongst its precision maintenance tools.

That said, I don't own any AKs. Don't like shooting them.

You can drop an AK in mud and sand and it will still fire. Even so, it's not a very precise instrument.

I try not to drop my ARs in the mud, too.

 

[BLADEMDA]

PGG is right about an AR 15. You should not spend more than $1500 on your first AR. Buy a 5.56/2.23 and remember keep the gun light! I think a nice Smith and Wesson or Colt AR for under $1500 is the way to go. In fact, you can get a nice AR for $1200 with flip up sights. In the mid range category stag Arms and Smith and Wesson have several models under $900.

Honestly, if your shooting distance is 300 yards or less there is no need to spend a fortune. If you love shooting that AR then get a second more expensive one down the road. Reselling that Colt or Smith and Wesson will be quite easy.

 

[doctor712]

This was an early report. Like many of the reported "facts" reported early on (like the shooter's identity), it is probably not correct. Frankly, I'm waiting for a comprehensive after report before I believe many of the "details".

It's widely accepted and reported, that according to the ME's autopsies, all kids were killed by the Bushmaster, vast majority at close range, with between 3-11 shots per child. Adults too. Everyone was killed by the ASSAULT RIFLE.

For JWK and PGG, it's just really not that hard a fact to grasp.

D712

 

[BLADEMDA]

It's widely accepted and reported, that according to the ME's autopsies, all kids were killed by the Bushmaster, vast majority at close range, with between 3-11 shots per child. Adults too. Everyone was killed by the ASSAULT RIFLE.

For JWK and PGG, it's just really not that hard a fact to grasp.

D712

You are correct. But, honestly killing little kids at close range would be just as easily accomplished with a pistol holding 20 rounds per mag or a 9 mm carbine or even a child's 22 LR AK/AR knock off.

 

[deleted480308]

The concept of an amendment articulating a right to a "feeling" is not only impossible to enforce because it is extremely suggestive, it is also intrusive because you might "feel" something when I am not actually doing something to you at all. It's an understandable emotion but it doesn't pan out.

 

[jwk]

It's widely accepted and reported, that according to the ME's autopsies, all kids were killed by the Bushmaster, vast majority at close range, with between 3-11 shots per child. Adults too. Everyone was killed by the ASSAULT RIFLE.

For JWK and PGG, it's just really not that hard a fact to grasp.

D712

Define assault rifle. Objectively, not subjectively. And I don't mean brand name or number. Tell me what an assault rifle is. Do you know how that idiot Feinstein did it last time with the last AWB? She and her staff went through gun catalogs and picked out guns that looked "dangerous" or had a "military appearance". Really - that's how they did it.

Do you even know the difference between automatic and semi-automatic and bolt action? Do you comprehend that a revolver is a semi-automatic weapon?

Do you realize Eric Holder, Obama, and the federal government put hundreds if not thousands of high caliber semi-automatic rifles in the hands of thugs from Mexican drug cartels, who have used those weapons to kill hundreds of people including a US Border Patrol agent? I don't recall you saying much about Fast and Furious.

Does it strike you as odd that states with the tightest gun control laws, such as California and Illinois, are among those with the highest gun violence and murder rates?

You don't like the touchy-feely reference, but really, that's all you're going on. You're not dealing with facts - you're simply going on emotion. All of us have had an emotional reaction to the events in Connecticut - but most of us have been able to remain rational and avoid a knee-jerk "we gotta do something" reaction that won't solve any problems.

BTW - I own a 45cal 1911 Thompson semi-automatic that I take out a couple times a year but will be handy for the person stupid enough to break into my house while I'm there, and a 22cal AR-7 "survival rifle" that's probably rusting in it's case since I bought it more than 30 years ago as a dirt-cheap "plinking" gun. I don't think either one would qualify as an assault weapon even under whatever loose definition you might come up with. I'm about to renew my CCW permit as well, although I have no intention of carrying my 45 on my person. It makes my ass look too big.

 

[countingdays]

How about these assault weapons?

 

[Entgegen]

I shoot best with the Glock 26 over the SR9C and .38 Revolver. That said, my wife and I prefer to carry a lightweight snubnose revolver on our persons for self defense. The heavy trigger pull (double action) and reliability of the reovolver make it a great choice for CCW. There is no slide to pull back so in an emergency just pull the gun and fire. Also, no worry of accidental dscharge like the SR9C if you carry with a bullet in the chamber.

The Ruger LCR is a fine choice and they are availble for under $375 online.
Of Course, you can get your wife a 10 ounce Smith and Wsson 22 Magnum for CCW like my wife owns: Lightweight and effective.

Any reason why you think an AD is more likely with a chambered SR9C than a snub? Is it the length/heaviness of the trigger pull on the DAO snub?

 

[BLADEMDA]

Any reason why you think an AD is more likely with a chambered SR9C than a snub? Is it the length/heaviness of the trigger pull on the DAO snub?

Guys like PGG are experts with guns. Many of us are amateurs. This means carrying a gun with a bullet in the chamber without the safety on (or no safety at all) combined wth a light trigger means the owner must be extra careful about accidental discharge.

Revolvers have 12- 16 pound double action triggers. Even my custom revolvers have 8-10 pound double action triggers. The means is takes a good deal of force to cause the gun to fire a round. Other guns like the Glock 26 have 4-5 pound triggers which means just a light touch and the gun could go off.

Hence, I won't carry my semi auto with a bullet in the chamber unless it has a heavy double action trigger and a safety. Some think that is overkill as a double action trigger is heavy on most semi autos. Glocks don't have a safety or double action triggers.

I think many women (and men) find the simplicity, reliability and safety of a revolver to Make for a great carry weapon. It certainly works for my wife and me. Others choose a Small semi auto for the extra capacity it offers.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Any reason why you think an AD is more likely with a chambered SR9C than a snub? Is it the length/heaviness of the trigger pull on the DAO snub?

The SR9c is a bit big for a carry weapon. I prefer the Ruger LCP or .38 LCR


http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/rugers-new-9-ruger-sr9c-review/. (Nice gun)

 

[drdoze]

I just picked myself up a Primary Weapons MK114 5.56/.223 piston driven AR15. Not from fear of a looming ban coming, I have wanted one for a long time now and no better excuse to buy one than Christmas.

For my CC I have a Springfield XDM 9mm compact. Although I do not carry it that often because it is too big for a CC. I also do not carry with one in the chamber for fear of it accidentally going off. BLADE, I notice in your above post you also do not like to have one chambered unless its double action with a heavy poll. What are your thought on the passive firing pin block on the Springfield's and also, i believe, in the Glocks.

Here is an article I found about semi auto pistols firing pin safety's advancements
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-columns/ballistic-basics/let-it-drop/