2014-2015 Panic Thread

[AspiringERMD]

The levels of Panic from most panicked to least:

1. Not accepted to any medical school aka Five Alarm, End of the World, ARQKL@JSD!LKV$TY%J^MNLKAS&*DJLAS<JKFLSDJFI, etc. Panic deserving of commitment to a psychiatric institution.
2. Accepted to a medical school so you'll will be getting an MD at least, but not most desired because of some combination of distance, cost, preference, etc. Very mild panic deserving of a slight elevation in heart rate but nothing a day at the pool can't resolve.
3. Accepted to dream medical school. No panic or deserving of a swift kick to the head if panicking about this.

You omitted the blatantly obvious...

0. No interview invites. Psychiatric institution would be of no use since there are no words to describe the level of despair.

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[Shams al Deen]

The levels of Panic from most panicked to least:

1. Not accepted to any medical school aka Five Alarm, End of the World, ARQKL@JSD!LKV$TY%J^MNLKAS&*DJLAS<JKFLSDJFI, etc. Panic deserving of commitment to a psychiatric institution.
2. Accepted to a medical school so you'll will be getting an MD at least, but not most desired because of some combination of distance, cost, preference, etc. Very mild panic deserving of a slight elevation in heart rate but nothing a day at the pool can't resolve.
3. Accepted to dream medical school. No panic or deserving of a swift kick to the head if panicking about this.

Panic level 2 can be alleviated by convincing yourself that the school you got into is the best. It's working for me!

 

[Zaynecarrick]

You omitted the blatantly obvious...

0. No interview invites. Psychiatric institution would be of no use since there are no words to describe the level of despair.

True, but everyone's status is up in the air until February-Marchish. Then you reach #1 by default.

 

[AspiringERMD]

True, but everyone's status is up in the air until February-Marchish. Then you reach #1 by default.

"Up in the air" is completely different depending on whether you have or have not had IIs, though.

 

[Zaynecarrick]

"Up in the air" is completely different depending on whether you have or have not had IIs, though.

Having II's could just mean you spent more money to get the same result as those who didn't get II's yet. Slightly milder but with 0 acceptances, still a strong panic nonetheless.

 

[RedPhys]

"Up in the air" is completely different depending on whether you have or have not had IIs, though.

I have had one II, from which I won't hear until mid-March.

My life is definitely in panic mode, though I suppose I will have to wait until January comes and goes to see if any other school gives me a chance.

 

[AspiringERMD]

Having II's could just mean you spent more money to get the same result as those who didn't get II's yet. Slightly milder but with 0 acceptances, still a strong panic nonetheless.

I don't know that how much money one spent on the cycle is relevant to the actual *reality* of the responses or lack of responses they have gotten, though.

I have had one II, from which I won't hear until mid-March.

My life is definitely in panic mode, though I suppose I will have to wait until January comes and goes to see if any other school gives me a chance.

I completely understand. My point was just that you currently have a chance at being a doctor even if you don't get any more IIs, whereas somebody who doesn't have any yet doesn't!

(Just to clarify- my tone here is that of someone batting this around in a friendly manner, not arguing antagonistically )

 

[RedPhys]

I completely understand. My point was just that you currently have a chance at being a doctor even if you don't get any more IIs, where is somebody who doesn't have any yet doesn't!

(Just to clarify- my tone here is that of someone batting this around in a friendly manner, not arguing antagonistically )

That's very true. I'm reminded of some thread a month of two back about "How many interview invites have you had?" (with one of the options "0-1") and people were saying there's a world of difference between no II and one II.

Just nail-biting because of the wait!

Congratulations on already having an acceptance. I'm sure it takes a load off.

 

[AspiringERMD]

That's very true. I'm reminded of some thread a month of two back about "How many interview invites have you had?" (with one of the options "0-1") and people were saying there's a world of difference between no II and one II.

Just nail-biting because of the wait!

Congratulations on already having an acceptance. I'm sure it takes a load off.

Exactly, and even having IIs at that time, I agreed 100% with the people who made that point on that thread.

Thank you very much It honestly does take a load off, but occasionally I almost (not quite!) wish I didn't know I'm in, because my work ethic is in the tank. Haha. You'll get there eventually! Hang in there! I know it's very tough.

 

[ridethecliche]

The biggest thing about having II's but no acceptances and waiting to hear back is that you know someone thinks you're worth talking to. Not having II's if you applied by say mid august is probably super unnerving.

An acceptance is an acceptance is an acceptance. This isn't college. Rankings etc matter, sure, but you're actually competing with a level playing field because USMLE scores matter and are standardized, which makes your institution matter just a bit less than it did in undergrad. A lot of people that are applying straight from UG are still stuck in the HS application mindset, where you bank on a safety school and move forward. These things are totally different.

I do research at an academic powerhouse. The surgery attendings I work with have gone to Drexel, Albany, Chicago Medical School, etc. In the last department I worked in (medicine) were more likely to be from Harvard or another school like that, but plenty of people weren't.

Your UG institution won't hold you back as long as it's a reasonable place and neither will your medical school.

An acceptance to a USMD school is an acceptace is an acceptance is an acceptance. Srsly.

It's definitely nerve wracking to be waiting from your top choices because one feels their self worth called into question here, but honestly for all intents and purposes, you're friggin set! There's no equating it to not having an acceptance let alone not having II's.

 

[Zelda840]

Rejected from Drexel post-interview today. I'm pretty worried. I thought the interview went well.

 

[ridethecliche]

Rejected from Drexel post-interview today. I'm pretty worried. I thought the interview went well.

How many interviews have you had so far this cycle? Any chance you can contact any of the admissions offices and ask for a quick review saying that you have more and you'd really appreciate some feedback if it could help you. If you find the right person....

 

[Zelda840]

I've had two, with one more coming up. I don't think I'd feel comfortable contacting my state school before they've made a decision, but I may contact Drexel. I'm just perplexed. A straight up rejection as opposed to a waitlist says to me that either my interview wasn't good or something is wrong with my committee letter.

 

[gyngyn]

How many interviews have you had so far this cycle? Any chance you can contact any of the admissions offices and ask for a quick review saying that you have more and you'd really appreciate some feedback if it could help you. If you find the right person....

Anything actually helpful cannot really be revealed.
Who could be authorized to make such a conclusion and give it?
In a small state with a single school, there apparently are such precedents. I can't imagine this working at Drexel, though.

 

[Goro]

Sounds about right. See if you can get feedback.

A straight up rejection as opposed to a waitlist says to me that either my interview wasn't good or something is wrong with my committee letter.

 

[med_s]

So much silence.

 

[ridethecliche]

Anything actually helpful cannot really be revealed.
Who could be authorized to make such a conclusion and give it?
In a small state with a single school, there apparently are such precedents. I can't imagine this working at Drexel, though.

I agree, but can hope right?

I think post interview rejection vs waitlist is weird too.

 

[Hermione L Knope MD. Ph.D]

don't underestimate the power of URM status or other "special" factors.. not that your friend with 5+ interviews is URM, but I know this kid with DECENT stats, like somewhere around 3.7 gpa and 32 mcat. you know, DECENT, but nothing truly exceptional. hes Asian, but he put Hispanic down on his application (hes MAYBE like 1/4 or 1/5 Hispanic, definitely MUCH more obvious that he's Japanese though, youd never know Hispanic by looking at him) and put that he was disadvantaged even though im pretty sure his family is extremely wealthy. i think he might have had depression or something growing up, so he wrote an extra essay about it. im sure depression sucks, but i dont know if id write an essay about it to gain an advantage in admissions, ESPECIALLY if I had URM status. he was playing every card in his hand I guess. anyway, hes got something like 12-14 interviews for MD/PhD (which apparently you need even higher stats for). and they're at TOP tier schools. Stanford, cornell, northwestern, nyu, yale, washington U, etc. pretty crazy, but that stuff definitely goes a long way. those extra factors can easily snag a couple interviews. it's a weird and sometimes unfair process. youd think someone with ridiculous stats like @happypatatoes would be getting all these incredible interviews, not someone whose mcat barely matches the schools' 10th percentile.

Well, this is awkward because whoever your friend is, we have literally the exact same profile. Don't underestimate this stuff. My last name is Japanese and I look Japanese but I'm 3/4 Hispanic and identify with that culture. Some people may think my life was very privileged growing up, but they wouldn't even know the beginning of my story. I also had depression and wrote about this in my statement because it was really what motivated me to go into medicine... Don't be so rash to make these assumptions. And yes I too got a WUStL MSTP interview with a 32. They don't just care about numbers.

EDIT: i almost literally think you wrote this about me but I'm a girl and I don't think I know anyone on sdn

 

[happypatatoes]

Sounds about right. See if you can get feedback.

A straight up rejection as opposed to a waitlist says to me that either my interview wasn't good or something is wrong with my committee letter.

Hello Goro, I am a fan of your insightful advice and information! I was wondering, don't adcoms usually look at letters prior to offering an interview to applicants? I understand that different schools do different things, but I always thought the the letters contributed towards the decision to give an interview. Thank you for all your help!

Edit: Also what I am trying to ask is: if you get an interview doesn't that mean there is probably NOT a huge red flag in your app, because otherwise you would not have been granted an interview?

 

[Goro]

This is school dependent. I have no idea what my wily old Admissions Dean does when taking the app packet into account. Actually, very little, I suspect, at my school. We don't pre-screen.

I was wondering, don't adcoms usually look at letters prior to offering an interview to applicants? I understand that different schools do different things, but I always thought the the letters contributed towards the decision to give an interview. Thank you for all your help!

If you're getting a II from an MD school, I'd say that your app was lacking any red flags.

Edit: Also what I am trying to ask is: if you get an interview doesn't that mean there is probably NOT a huge red flag in your app, because otherwise you would not have been granted an interview?

 

[johnnytest]

Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I hope some blessings are coming our way.

 

[NeuroExercise]

Still waiting to hear from some schools. Limbo is not a fun place to be in.

 

[FFH]

Well, this is awkward because whoever your friend is, we have literally the exact same profile. Don't underestimate this stuff. My last name is Japanese and I look Japanese but I'm 3/4 Hispanic and identify with that culture. Some people may think my life was very privileged growing up, but they wouldn't even know the beginning of my story. I also had depression and wrote about this in my statement because it was really what motivated me to go into medicine... Don't be so rash to make these assumptions. And yes I too got a WUStL MSTP interview with a 32. They don't just care about numbers.

EDIT: i almost literally think you wrote this about me but I'm a girl and I don't think I know anyone on sdn

Wow, it would be pretty crazy if you and the person mentored by 457582 are different people. I mean, what are the chances that there are two individuals who both

Are Japanese/Hispanic mix and look more Japanese
Have the same MCAT,
Got interview from Stanford
Got interview from WUSM
Got interview from Yale
Applying to MSTP.
Had depression

It is more likely that 457583 heard your story from someone else who didn't identify your sex and instead just said something like "I know someone who blahblahblah" and 457582 assumed it must be a guy. Or he could use "he" on purpose.

Anyway, it seems that you have quite a story and congratulations on your accomplishment!
The moral of the story
1. Don't judge people based on assumptions and appearances.
2. Careful about what you are sharing on the internet. It's a small world.

 

[Aloft085]

don't underestimate the power of URM status or other "special" factors.. not that your friend with 5+ interviews is URM, but I know this kid with DECENT stats, like somewhere around 3.7 gpa and 32 mcat. you know, DECENT, but nothing truly exceptional. hes Asian, but he put Hispanic down on his application (hes MAYBE like 1/4 or 1/5 Hispanic, definitely MUCH more obvious that he's Japanese though, youd never know Hispanic by looking at him) and put that he was disadvantaged even though im pretty sure his family is extremely wealthy. i think he might have had depression or something growing up, so he wrote an extra essay about it. im sure depression sucks, but i dont know if id write an essay about it to gain an advantage in admissions, ESPECIALLY if I had URM status. he was playing every card in his hand I guess. anyway, hes got something like 12-14 interviews for MD/PhD (which apparently you need even higher stats for). and they're at TOP tier schools. Stanford, cornell, northwestern, nyu, yale, washington U, etc. pretty crazy, but that stuff definitely goes a long way. those extra factors can easily snag a couple interviews. it's a weird and sometimes unfair process. youd think someone with ridiculous stats like @happypatatoes would be getting all these incredible interviews, not someone whose mcat barely matches the schools' 10th percentile.

Yep, changing your race from Asian to Hispanic moves you from 63.1% chance of acceptance to 90.9% at 3.7 GPA / 32 MCAT. It's a pretty crap deal for us white or asian guys, but what are you going to do.

Source: https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

 

[aprimenumber]

It's a pretty crap deal for us white or asian guys, but what are you going to do.

Acknowledge that your experiences growing up were probably quite different from those experienced by many (if not most) underrepresented minorities, and understand that the example given (an Asian applicant choosing to identify himself/herself as Hispanic in order to gain a perceived competitive advantage despite barely even identifying with the culture and more than likely never experiencing any of the prejudices and disadvantages associated with the culture that he/she is choosing to identify as) should be treated as a very unfortunate (and somewhat unethical) exception rather than the norm.

 

[NYCdude]

I had a dream that an adcom from my top choice messaged me on Facebook to invite me for an interview. You can imagine how disappointed I was when I woke up.

 

[FFH]

It's a pretty crap deal for us white or asian guys, but what are you going to do.

No disrespect, but your deal of applying to med school would have been just as crapy even without any URM considerations. If you think applying to med school as an asian is hard, imagine how hard it must be for someone to live a life as a minority who had to deal with racism, poverty, violence everyday AND to find the energy and the resources to apply to med school? I'm not saying you are being racism, but just as a reminder for us all to be more accurately aware of the difficulties faced by many minorities in their life, to be less quickly to jump into conclusions and to refrain from thinking that URM considerations are just cutting some people a slack:

Edit: It seems this following post suggest that being white and asian make you more likely to apply to med school and when you do, you have a better shot at someone who's black.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/the-urm-advantage.895107/

 

[Aloft085]

No disrespect, but your deal of applying to med school would have been just as crapy even without any URM considerations. If you think applying to med school as an asian is hard, imagine how hard it must be for someone to live a life as a minority who had to deal with racism, poverty, violence everyday AND to find the energy and the resources to apply to med school? I'm not saying you are being racism, but just as a reminder for us all to be more accurately aware of the difficulties faced by many minorities in their life, to be less quickly to jump into conclusions and to refrain from thinking that URM considerations are just cutting some people a slack:
View attachment 187320

Edit: It seems this following post suggest that being white and asian make you more likely to apply to med school and when you do, you have a better shot at someone who's black.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/the-urm-advantage.895107/

Oh don't give me that white guilt bulls*t. I grew up poor. Plenty of black and hispanic people grew up rich, especially among medical school applicants. Race isn't pre-determinant, and quite honestly, to think that it is pre-determinant is a racist mentality. Future generations of Americans will be amazed that it was still legal to discriminated based upon race in America in 2014.

 

[aprimenumber]

Oh don't give me that white guilt bulls*t. I grew up poor. Plenty of black and hispanic people grew up rich. Race isn't pre-determinant, and quite honestly, to think that race is the dominant factor in an individual's upbringing is a racist mentality.

It's not white guilt. Google "poor white privilege". Hopefully we can resolve this before an idiotic debate emerges on this thread (the adjective is meant to describe the hypothetical debate, not any specific person).

And finally, remember that medical schools aren't designed to accept students based on who wants it the most. They're intended to produce the best doctors for this country, so that also means accepting a diverse class with the hopes that doctor demographics will reflect the ethnic demographics of the populations that they serve.

 

[Aloft085]

It's not white guilt. Google "poor white privilege". Hopefully we can resolve this before an idiotic debate emerges on this thread (the adjective is meant to describe the hypothetical debate, not any specific person).

And finally, remember that medical schools aren't designed to accept students based on who wants it the most. They're intended to produce the best doctors for this country, so that also means accepting a diverse class with the hopes that doctor demographics will reflect the ethnic demographics of the populations that they serve.

How about you google rich black privilege? Alternatively, google the privilege of someone that is both hispanic and white. I'm sure that'll blow your mind. I've read all of those arguments before, and honestly they don't hold any water with me. I've lived it. Your arguments basically boil down to white people trying to imagine what it's like to be black, and black people trying to imagine what it's like being white. It simply doesn't work; you don't have adequate perspective. The other minority groups have basically just been shoehorned into this debate.

In any case, I do understand the importance of having minority physicians. Although it would likely be far more effective to fix those problems earlier in the pipeline rather than later, and to address issues such as cost and length of medical education that deter low-income applicants. Minorities being disproportionately low-income are going to be disproportionately deterred by a $250k education that doesn't start to pay off until roughly a decade after undergraduate graduation, rather than immediately like in other careers. Having a shortage of residency and medical school spots certainly doesn't help either.

My point is, you can fix this problem of insufficient minority physicians without actually discriminating based upon race, and you could probably do a far better job of it. Issues like funding public K-12 schools on a state-wide basis rather than with county property taxes, so that schools in poorer areas are not funded less. Also reducing the interest rate charged on medical school student loans, which are disproportionately high due to sharing a risk poor with all other graduate students, rather than strictly with medical students.

Another great idea would be to create a medical student specific program similar to "Pay As You Earn" (PAYE), so that the risk of financial catastrophe due to $200k in loans at 7% interest is reduced, while making sure financial costs of the government program are better suited to the medical profession (rather than a massive loss for most students, as is currently the case).

My final idea for today is to allow the payment of student loans with pre-tax income. For those not familiar, currently only the interest on student loans is tax deductible. That's a really small benefit, and almost negligible. Let me highlight the issue: Say you borrow $180k in medical school. You defer in residency and begin paying it back post-residency, over a 10 year period. Your total interest accumulated is $148k, for a total of $328k. Doesn't look so bad, right? But wait, there's more! That's after-tax income. Assuming an effective tax rate of 33% at this income level (thanks Obama), you're going to pay back roughly 50% more in pre-tax income than you owe in after-tax income. So you must dedicate roughly $492k in pre-tax earnings to pay off those $180k in student loans. My proposal would allow you to pay off student loans with pre-tax income, so that it only takes $328k in income to pay off $328k in student loans. This logic behind this is that those earnings are covering essentially a business expense, and should not be taxed as 'profit', especially given the dire need for doctors in this country.

 

[FFH]

Oh don't give me that white guilt bulls*t. I grew up poor. Plenty of black and hispanic people grew up rich, especially among medical school applicants. Race isn't pre-determinant, and quite honestly, to think that it is pre-determinant is a racist mentality. Future generations of Americans will be amazed that it was still legal to discriminated based upon race in America in 2014.

EDIT: It's not guilt, it's compassion and empathy we are talking about. EDIT#3: On second thought, I think it's not even compassion or empathy, it's social justice we are talking about.

EDIT#2: the following [] part that I said was apparently wrong [Actually URM is not based on Race. It's based on income and other social economical status. If you are going to criticize the system, at least get the fact straight.] If you grew up poor and if you make an effort to write about it in your PS and in your AMCAS disadvantaged essay, you will be given consideration. Med schools don't just look at the end point, they look at the "distance traveled".

If you are a white or asian kid who have attended the crappiest high school in the heart of Detroit and who were deserted by parents with substance abuse and moved from one home to another home under social services and who had to work 3 jobs throughout college, Adcoms will look at you more favorably than a hispanic kid whose AMCAS application says that both of his parents are physicians and who attended montessori schools all the way.

I can understand why it is outrageous when people take advantage of the system. There will be and always will be people who play the system. What about rich white kids whose parents give a building to the schools to secure spots? What about people who instead of lying about race, lie about ECs? Nothing is prefect.

Frankly, even if the wealthy hispanic kids are thrown out of the whole picture, you will still have about the same chance in getting to med school. You are and will always be competing against a large pool of white and asian kids who do a better job than you did.

 

[rikudo]

We don't exist on a level playing field. It's a sad fact but society gives certain unearned privileges based off appearances including what race you look like. Medical schools recognize many types of privilege that play into your current position in life: attractiveness privilege, economic privilege, sexual orientation privilege, citizenship privilege, privilege of being born without disabilities, raised in a stable household privilege ect... the list goes on. Hence the interviews, essays, personal statements and weight ECs are given.

It's lame that whites and ORMs need need higher scores but would you really trade a lifetime of the social biases faced by URMs for a few GPA and MCAT points? I wouldn't.

 

[FFH]

@rikudo , I would strongly advice against using real picture of yours as avatar, especially one that has your SO.

 

[aprimenumber]

Guys, I just want to say that this thread could have taken a really bad turn. But it didn't, since you guys brought up informed and overall civil ideas and arguments.

You guys rock.

 

[rikudo]

@rikudo , I would strongly advice against using real picture of yours as avatar, especially one that has your SO.

Done, thanks!

 

[FFH]

Done, thanks!

Your new avatar is super cool! Love it!

 

[deleted380953]

Actually URM is not based on Race. It's based on income and other social economical status. If you are going to criticize the system, at least get the fact straight. If you grew up poor and if you make an effort to write about it in your PS and in your AMCAS disadvantaged essay, you will be given consideration. Med schools don't just look at the end point, they look at the "distance traveled".

I agree with your post for the most part, but "URM" is based on race actually: https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/urm/

In fact the definition was coined to describe the lack of racial diversity in the medical field. There's really no mention of socioeconomic status, however I agree with you that more importance should be given to the economic status of the applicant, especially those who are low income.

 

[FFH]

I agree with your post for the most part, but "URM" is based on race actually: https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/urm/

In fact the definition was coined to describe the lack of racial diversity in the medical field. There's really no mention of socioeconomic status, however I agree with you that more importance should be given to the economic status of the applicant, especially those who are low income.

Thanks for correcting me. I thought URM was interchangeable with the term "disadvantaged" which wasn't the case apparently.

 

[Hermione L Knope MD. Ph.D]

Acknowledge that your experiences growing up were probably quite different from those experienced by many (if not most) underrepresented minorities, and understand that the example given (an Asian applicant choosing to identify himself/herself as Hispanic in order to gain a perceived competitive advantage despite barely even identifying with the culture and more than likely never experiencing any of the prejudices and disadvantages associated with the culture that he/she is choosing to identify as) should be treated as a very unfortunate (and somewhat unethical) exception rather than the norm.

Although I agree with the beginning of your post, I must say, it's no ones business to decide if another individual identifies with any culture regardless of whether said person is 1/32 or 100% one race. It's a very personal issue that doesn't need to be broadcasted to everyone else in order to make it legitimate. After some investigation, the original poster is in fact someone I sorta knew, and he used baseless claims to state what he did. He thinks I'm 1/5 or 1/4 Hispanic but I'm in fact 3/4. I live in an area that is saturated with Hispanic culture, so it's the only culture i identify with, not asian culture at all. He thinks my family is wealthy, I had to sell my car to apply this year. My grandparents didn't even graduate high school.

All I'm saying is people need to not assume others are "using URM advantage." If they truly think that, they probably don't know that person well enough to be making those claims to begin with.

 

[aprimenumber]

Although I agree with the beginning of your post, I must say, it's no ones business to decide if another individual identifies with any culture regardless of whether said person is 1/32 or 100% one race. It's a very personal issue that doesn't need to be broadcasted to everyone else in order to make it legitimate. After some investigation, the original poster is in fact someone I sorta knew, and he used baseless claims to state what he did. He thinks I'm 1/5 or 1/4 Hispanic but I'm in fact 3/4. I live in an area that is saturated with Hispanic culture, so it's the only culture i identify with, not asian culture at all. He thinks my family is wealthy, I had to sell my car to apply this year. My grandparents didn't even graduate high school.

All I'm saying is people need to not assume others are "using URM advantage." If they truly think that, they probably don't know that person well enough to be making those claims to begin with.

At the time I was writing the original post, I assumed that the original poster was talking about a different person who just happened to share similarities with you, and I was using his/her description of a hypothetical applicant (1/4 Hispanic, wealthy, doesn't identify with Hispanic culture etc.) I wasn't trying to single you out specifically, and I think your designation was appropriate.

However, I disagree with the statement that it's nobody's business. It absolutely is a school's business if an applicant knowingly misrepresents him or herself in an attempt to gain an advantage, particularly if a school is trying to assemble a culturally diverse class.

 

[Hermione L Knope MD. Ph.D]

At the time I was writing the original post, I assumed that the original poster was talking about a different person who just happened to share similarities with you, and I was using his/her description of a hypothetical applicant (1/4 Hispanic, wealthy, doesn't identify with Hispanic culture etc.) I wasn't trying to single you out specifically, and I think your designation was appropriate.

However, I disagree with the statement that it's nobody's business. It absolutely is a school's business if an applicant knowingly misrepresents him or herself in an attempt to gain an advantage, particularly if a school is trying to assemble a culturally diverse class.

Oh yeah I agree it's the schools business if it's knowingly misrepresentation. I meant more of other people trying to decide if another applicant (or any person in general) has the right to identify as such. If a person is being responsible about it and it's truthful, I don't think other people should judge whether that person is 1/32 or 100% is what I was saying

 

[efle]

I wonder when we will become enlightened enough as a society to admit ugly people with lower stats since those Pretties had an advantage growing up. Plus I'm sure the overall healthcare quality would immediately improve since diversity, I mean what are ugly people supposed to do when they want to be seen by an ugly physician they identify with!1! #AffirmativeForUgly

 

[PreMed015]

I wonder when we will become enlightened enough as a society to admit ugly people with lower stats since those Pretties had an advantage growing up. Plus I'm sure the overall healthcare quality would immediately improve since diversity, I mean what are ugly people supposed to do when they want to be seen by an ugly physician they identify with!1! #AffirmativeForUgly

Your inability to attract the 'pretty' members of the opposite sex does not make you disadvantaged.

Btw, the money and prestige of being a physician will most likely outweigh your lack of attractiveness (if seeing the spouses of the physicians I've shadowed serves as any indication).

 

[efle]

Your inability to attract the 'pretty' members of the opposite sex does not make you disadvantaged.

Btw, the money and prestige of being a physician will most likely outweigh your lack of attractiveness (if seeing the spouses of the physicians I've shadowed serves as any indication).

Really? You don't think attractive people get massive benefits in life? I'd much rather carry the burden of a 1/16th Native American ancestry than be markedly ugly.

Good to see all the "do it for the helping people!!" vibes on SDN are reflected in the real world of medicine

 

[PreMed015]

Really? You don't think attractive people get massive benefits in life? I'd much rather carry the burden of a 1/16th Native American ancestry than be markedly ugly.

Good to see all the "do it for the helping people!!" vibes on SDN are reflected in the real world of medicine

Not to open up a can of worms, but I don't think people are shot and killed by law enforcement just for being unattractive.

 

[efle]

Not to open up a can of worms, but I don't think people are shot and killed by law enforcement just for being unattractive.

True, they only shoot-on-sight the 1/16th native americans around here, but that's probably because many of the cops are ugly themselves and can identify with that demographic

 

[PreMed015]

True, they only shoot-on-sight the 1/16th native americans around here, but that's probably because many of the cops are ugly themselves and can identify with that demographic

You act as if attractiveness is such an amazing trait. How long are most people aesthetically pleasing? Late teens to mid-30's? If you are black, you have to deal with the consequences of that from birth to death.

 

[efle]

You act as if attractiveness is such an amazing trait. How long are most people aesthetically pleasing? Late teens to mid-30's? If you are black, you have to deal with the consequences of that from birth to death.

Attractiveness can have a huge impact on how people perceive and treat you. Seeing as it is during the late teens and early 20s that people are building their resumes and applying to med school, that isn't much of a counter argument. Everybody may be saggy and ugly at 40 (i kid, sort of) but it is no longer relevant to entering a career path by then.

 

[PreMed015]

Attractiveness can have a huge impact on how people perceive and treat you. Seeing as it is during the late teens and early 20s that people are building their resumes and applying to med school, that isn't much of a counter argument. Everybody may be saggy and ugly at 40 (i kid, sort of) but it is no longer relevant to entering a career path by then.

Attractiveness can go both ways, dear. My best friend is extremely gorgeous with some of the largest boobs I have ever seen. She graduated with a BBA last semester, and had the most difficult time placing a job. When women interviewed her, there was obvious jealousy (especially when the men at the workplace struggled to keep their eyes off of her as she went into the interview room). Apparently, some of the female interviewers insulted all aspects of her application and questioned why she was even granted an interview.

 

[efle]

Attractiveness can go both ways, dear. My best friend is extremely gorgeous with some of the largest boobs I have ever seen. She graduated with a BBA last semester, and had the most difficult time placing a job. When women interviewed her, there was obvious jealousy (especially when the men at the workplace struggled to keep their eyes off of her as she went into the interview room). Apparently, some of the female interviewers insulted all aspects of her application and questioned why she was even granted an interview.

And yet, the vast majority of socio research points towards hot people being perceived as smarter, more talented, etc - see the halo effect. Your friend may have had an n=1 disadvantage, but in general you get a big boost in how, say, an interviewer perceives you if you are attractive. There really isn't any doubt in whether its advantageous in life to be attractive