2024 VIRMP Match

[-Catecholamine-]

Hey all! Starting to mildly panic about internship/residency applications this year and have a few questions so I figured I would start this thread (trying to get into zoo med for context). Currently small animal rotating intern at a private practice. I received a lot of advice when applying to match last year, but feel like I know very little about the dos and don'ts of applying for specialty internships/residencies.

Do people typically apply for specialty internships and residencies after rotating? I know it's almost impossible to get a zoo residency without a specialty internship, but one of my mentors said its good to get your name out there and let people see how you've grown from one year to the next when they look at your application again next year. Someone else told me it might seem a little presumptive to the people running the program though.

Also, I know letters are a critical part of application. I was wondering what ratio vets within the specialty to vets you worked with on your internship (ex. ER, IM) is recommended? Does this vary for applications between specialty internships and residencies? Also how important is it that all letter writers are boarded? I know they should be for the most part, but for example does a letter from a non-boarded zoo vet carry any weight if it is added on as a 4th letter?

Generally, for specialty applications, what sorts of questions do you feel it was most important to ask when applying? I had a pretty good question list going when applying for rotating, but for zoo med I honestly feel like I would go anywhere that would accept me so I'm not sure what information would be important to collect prior to application/ranking.

What is the interview process like for specialty internship/residency applications? For those who have done them do they typically ask you to travel to different locations to tour hospitals or were most interviews over zoom? If they expect you to travel is that something that most rotating internships are pretty understanding about you taking time off for? (Obviously I know this will depend on the hospital but in general?) Are they pretty standard interviews or do they ask medical knowledge or case-based questions?

Finally for those that have previously applied for specialty internships/residencies, is there anything you wish you had known or done beforehand?

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[WildZoo]

I have experience applying to zoo/exotics internships (only the academic ones and the ones at zoos, none of the private practice exotics) so will answer your questions to the best of my ability!

Do people typically apply for specialty internships and residencies after rotating? I know it's almost impossible to get a zoo residency without a specialty internship, but one of my mentors said its good to get your name out there and let people see how you've grown from one year to the next when they look at your application again next year. Someone else told me it might seem a little presumptive to the people running the program though.

The downside to applying to places where you're unlikely to be considered is mostly financial. It costs extra to apply to more programs ($95 for 10 or fewer, $260 for 11 to 20, $365 for 21 or more). You have to make that tier selection for both internships and residencies if you're applying to both. No offense to your mentor but if a residency is looking for someone with previous zoo or exotics internship or at least post-DVM experience, they're not going to spend much time looking at your application if you don't meet that qualification. Most of the residency programs that were at the AAZV conference last week were discouraging people from applying straight out of a rotating. There may be exceptions so I would just take a thorough look at the program descriptions or reach out to their contact person.

Also, I know letters are a critical part of application. I was wondering what ratio vets within the specialty to vets you worked with on your internship (ex. ER, IM) is recommended? Does this vary for applications between specialty internships and residencies? Also how important is it that all letter writers are boarded? I know they should be for the most part, but for example does a letter from a non-boarded zoo vet carry any weight if it is added on as a 4th letter?

I don't think there's a hard and fast number. For a specialty internship you want at least one boarded vet in the specialty you're applying to, and at least one specialist (ideally internal med, surgery, or ECC) from your internship. If you have a boarded vet in zoo or exotics at the place you're working right now, that would be an ideal letter to have. For residencies the balance seems to tip more towards preferring as many vets in your chosen specialty as possible, assuming they're all great letters.

The best letters are the ones that are going to say you're one of the best people they've worked with, that they would pick you for this job every time, etc. Basically you want glowing recommendations. So beyond meeting the above criteria, pick who is going to support you the most - and make sure that applies to all of your letter writers. It doesn't matter if you have a letter from a boarded zoo vet if that letter is less than stellar. A letter from a non-boarded zoo vet is good too, it might not carry quite as much weight but there are several well known and respected zoo vets who aren't boarded.

Generally, for specialty applications, what sorts of questions do you feel it was most important to ask when applying? I had a pretty good question list going when applying for rotating, but for zoo med I honestly feel like I would go anywhere that would accept me so I'm not sure what information would be important to collect prior to application/ranking.

Kind of depends on your goals and what you care about. Some things are reported on VIRMP but aren't always accurate or detailed so you can always ask for more details on that stuff. Some of the things I asked about for zoo/exotics internships (i didnt ask every program all of these questions):
- general daily workflow/schedule and caseload
- balance of zoo, companion exotic, and wildlife cases (for the academic ones)
- success rate with matching previous interns to residencies
- time for vacation, research, conferences (and if conference costs are reimbursed)
- time spent on call/seeing ER cases
- whether there is time set aside for journal club/topic rounds
- what is the most challenging aspect of the internship
- what sets this program apart from others/makes it special or biggest strengths and weaknesses of the program
- what drew them to the program/why do they enjoy it
- what is the teaching/mentorship style of the clinicians
- general work culture/interactions among the team
- favorite things about the city/town
- what qualities lead to someone being successful in this program

In most cases I was able to get contact information for the current or immediate past intern so I asked them those questions. To me it is a red flag if a program doesn't want you to talk to their current interns or doesn't give you that opportunity. I also asked the mentors a lot of those same questions during interviews.

What is the interview process like for specialty internship/residency applications? For those who have done them do they typically ask you to travel to different locations to tour hospitals or were most interviews over zoom? If they expect you to travel is that something that most rotating internships are pretty understanding about you taking time off for? (Obviously I know this will depend on the hospital but in general?) Are they pretty standard interviews or do they ask medical knowledge or case-based questions?

All of my interviews were over zoom or phone except for one that was local. For residencies I think there are a couple that would invite top applicants out.

The interview style varies widely between programs. Some were more like an introduction to the program and opportunity for the applicant to ask questions. Some were more like a standard interview. I can only think of one where they asked me case-based questions. I would expect that to be a bit different for residencies.

Finally for those that have previously applied for specialty internships/residencies, is there anything you wish you had known or done beforehand?

The zoo and exotics world is in a lot of flux right now. There's vet turnover at a lot of places and sometimes it works out fine but other times it ends up being a bit of a disaster. Reach out to your mentors about the programs you're applying to, sometimes word gets around through the grapevine.

And I'll reiterate, talk to the current interns! I personally waited until after I had applied and heard back from places with interest/interview invites before I reached out to current interns to lighten the load on them a bit (you can imagine how many people they're hearing from). But you certainly want to get the chance to talk to them before making your rank decisions.

 

[-Catecholamine-]

Thanks so much all the info is extremely helpful! Did you apply to internships only then? And did you apply to any outside of the match?

 

[WildZoo]

Thanks so much all the info is extremely helpful! Did you apply to internships only then? And did you apply to any outside of the match?

I did only apply to internships and only to ones in the match. Not necessarily saying that's what anyone else should do but it was what I felt was best for me at the time.

 

[-Catecholamine-]

Gotcha ok! I kinda wish they were all in the match, there are some that have the deadline after match that I would prefer to do over some of the ones in the match, but I'm planning to apply to the ones in the match anyway to maximize my chances of just ending up somewhere lol

 

[gwelling]

For someone who is planning to apply for both internships and residencies on virmp how do you address that in your letter of intent? or do you just avoid specifying which positions you're going for?

 

[WildZoo]

For someone who is planning to apply for both internships and residencies on virmp how do you address that in your letter of intent? or do you just avoid specifying which positions you're going for?

You'll write two separate personal statements/letters of intent

 

[gwelling]

Is anyone else applying for anesthesia this year that I can ask questions?

 

[tpink11]

Hi everyone, Im currently a 4th year veterinary student applying for rotating internships this year. I am a bit conflicted on where to apply. I would like to specialize in surgery and I was wondering if anyone has any advice as to what might be better. I am considered applying through VCA because they can sponsor you for a surgical residency if you work for them after which I dont mind. And then you can also apply through the match if you dont get sponsored. Another option would be to go to a location that already has a surgical residency. My problem is I don't know which locations hire internally. Is it better to take my chances with VCA or apply for a program that already has a surgical residency? Any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[VIN-Foundation]

Is it better to take my chances with VCA or apply for a program that already has a surgical residency? Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Goal #1: Get an internship.

It's fine to apply to VCA programs but I would not limit yourself to those.

 

[battie]

Hi everyone, Im currently a 4th year veterinary student applying for rotating internships this year. I am a bit conflicted on where to apply. I would like to specialize in surgery and I was wondering if anyone has any advice as to what might be better. I am considered applying through VCA because they can sponsor you for a surgical residency if you work for them after which I dont mind. And then you can also apply through the match if you dont get sponsored. Another option would be to go to a location that already has a surgical residency. My problem is I don't know which locations hire internally. Is it better to take my chances with VCA or apply for a program that already has a surgical residency? Any advice is greatly appreciated!

I have a friend who applied to a wide variety of internships, including VCA, with the original intent for zoo companion animal. She's now in a sponsored academia residency after doing a private practice VCA internship. But she didn't only limit herself to VCA.

We have surgeons here, but I always forget who they are 🤦🏼‍♀️

 

[rtyb91]

Going to apply for loads of SAIM residencies and perhaps some specialty internships just in case I don't match TwT
Hopefully my JVIM paper will boost my chances a little.

 

[battie]

Going to apply for loads of SAIM residencies and perhaps some specialty internships just in case I don't match TwT
Hopefully my JVIM paper will boost my chances a little.

For what it's worth, my bestie in an IM residency (VCA sponsored academia) and wasn't published or anything. So just to give you some perspective!

 

[doctor-who]

Is anyone else applying to shelter internships this year? Or anyone who has gone through shelter internships/residencies and might be able to offer some pearls of wisdom please? I am not interested in academic internships, so would be looking specifically at San Diego Humane Society, Oregon Humane, and Dumb Friends. Thank you!

 

[JaynaAli]

Is anyone else applying to shelter internships this year? Or anyone who has gone through shelter internships/residencies and might be able to offer some pearls of wisdom please? I am not interested in academic internships, so would be looking specifically at San Diego Humane Society, Oregon Humane, and Dumb Friends. Thank you!

@vetmedhead

 

[Polocrosse2017]

I'm going to be applying for SA rotating Internships mainly at places that have good radiology departments since getting a radiology residency will be my step after that. I have a good GPA, publications and good LORs so I have my fingers crossed. Just have to get through the NAVLE in two weeks first!

 

[supershorty]

I'm applying for SA rotating as well, aiming for surgery eventually.

 

[Cheesedreams]

I’m applying for mostly large animal internships and the few zoo/small/large animal internships that are suitable for new grads. VERY anxious especially considering how few spots there are for large animal programs so I hope I don’t screw myself over and end up scrambling.

 

[Mythical]

I’m applying for mostly large animal internships and the few zoo/small/large animal internships that are suitable for new grads. VERY anxious especially considering how few spots there are for large animal programs so I hope I don’t screw myself over and end up scrambling.

How is scrambling “screwing yourself over”? A lot of people end up finding great programs in the scramble and go on to residencies after.

 

[Cheesedreams]

How is scrambling “screwing yourself over”? A lot of people end up finding great programs in the scramble and go on to residencies after.

Very true, and I hope that would be the case for me! It’s just the stress and uncertainty of scrambling that I was referring to.

 

[Mythical]

Very true, and I hope that would be the case for me! It’s just the stress and uncertainty of scrambling that I was referring to.

I don’t know what the competition is like for large animal internships, but I really hope you get one of your ranked choices.

The scramble actually gives institutions/practices with unfilled positions a chance to find unmatched people, too, so just want to give hope to people who may not match in the first round!

 

[rtyb91]

For what it's worth, my bestie in an IM residency (VCA sponsored academia) and wasn't published or anything. So just to give you some perspective!

Thanks for the info! That makes me even more nervous since I have literally nothing else to set me apart from other applicants hahaha. I mean, I am not from an AVMA-accredited institution but I am in the midst of my ECFVG certification. I am not Canadian or American so visa sponsorship will be pretty limited; so the only thing I can imagine setting me apart from other applicants is my research background, and perhaps some convincing LORs from my current faculties XD

 

[LittleSparrow]

Hi all! I'm applying for exotics/small animal rotating internships this year and was wondering how I should re-format my CV to be easier to read and more fitting for this type of application. It's currently a lot of bullet points, but I'm not sure listing everything I did somewhere is necessary anymore. For people who've applied in the past, did you include your externships? If so, did you give a brief description of what you did there or just list them? Just trying to figure out what's too much and too little.

 

[JaynaAli]

In general, a CV is pretty much supposed to include absolutely everything (unlike a shorter resume), but I agree tailoring it to your field is probably wise because ain’t no one going to read all 30 pages when they have hundreds of applicants to review. They’re gonna skim the first couple pages and move on. In my opinion as someone who has review residency apps, I want to see applicable externships (meaning if they were related to the field). For example, I don’t care if you visited XYZ animal hospital for two weeks during fourth year or that you were a kennel tech at ABC animal hospital for three years as a pre-vet ten years ago if you’re applying to pathology, but if you visited Colorado State and did a clin path externship for two weeks or worked in your school’s path lab, I want to know that. Most CVs I reviewed were still just 2-3 pages.

In regards to how much info to list about the experiences, I personally lean towards less is more. In vet med we all have similar training and I think we all just inherently understand what is involved in a rotating internship or a fourth year externship so unless you did something unique at that experience, I think listing without details is sufficient to get the point across. I believe on my own I listed out a few details in bullet points for my main path-related experiences and then just listed all my externships and other self explanatory experiences and jobs.

 

[LittleSparrow]

Thanks that's really helpful!

 

[Polocrosse2017]

Applications in waiting for last LOR that should be in this week. When do people start hearing from programs? (SA rotating)

 

[supershorty]

Meanwhile, none of my LORs have submitted yet

 

[Polocrosse2017]

Meanwhile, none of my LORs have submitted yet

Ok now I don't feel so bad! 😂

 

[supershorty]

Submitted my applications and gave my references another nudge to start the new year

 

[supershorty]

Oho! A reference!

The one I thought for sure would be last to get it in.
Fascinating.

 

[exotics&wildlifehopeful]

For the general information tab there's a required section "Publications, research, or other pertinent experience" Really the only thing I have is I recently submitted a case report for publication. Is it worth it to list there?

 

[Whatisthemeaningoflife?]

Is there any extra benefit of submitting 4 LOR over 3?

 

[Whatisthemeaningoflife?]

On average how many programs have you guys applied to so far? I am applying for the SA Rotating Internship requiring a visa so I can only apply to 7 programs so far which doesn't look good for me😅.

 

[supershorty]

Is there any extra benefit of submitting 4 LOR over 3?

Probably not, though I'm using it to placate myself that I only need 2 more people to submit vs 3.

I am applying to 10 programs, not going to spend the additional money to apply to more.

 

[Whatisthemeaningoflife?]

I am primarily applying for the small animal-rotating internship. As a foreign grad, I have limited options so I was thinking of applying to another specialty like a large animal, ambulatory, or others. Since all my applications are focused on small animal rotating internships like in the letter of intent, LOR, and CV, will it look too bad and desperate on me? I am concerned that it makes me look like I am randomly applying and I am not a serious candidate. Any suggestions?

 

[supershorty]

I don't see the point of applying for internships outside of the area you would actually want to practice in. What's your rationale beyond having fewer options for an SA rotating? What do you ultimately want to do?

 

[rtyb91]

Meanwhile, none of my LORs have submitted yet

Only 1 of mine actually got submitted so far.. and I am meeting my faculty on daily basis so I sure hope they remember hahaha.

 

[rtyb91]

I don't see the point of applying for internships outside of the area you would actually want to practice in. What's your rationale beyond having fewer options for an SA rotating? What do you ultimately want to do?

I think where foreigners of North America come from is that to max out every chance to get into a program who is willing to sponsor visa. Plenty of Japanese candidates go for ECC specialty intern either on the match or through scramble to get to the States so that they get to be in the system, and work their way around the system after getting LORS after 1 year working with North Americans.

 

[rtyb91]

I am primarily applying for the small animal-rotating internship. As a foreign grad, I have limited options so I was thinking of applying to another specialty like a large animal, ambulatory, or others. Since all my applications are focused on small animal rotating internships like in the letter of intent, LOR, and CV, will it look too bad and desperate on me? I am concerned that it makes me look like I am randomly applying and I am not a serious candidate. Any suggestions?

if you are applying for SA, do not apply for LA related ones. Your letter of intent will look very silly and you obviously would be rejected immediately.

 

[rtyb91]

For the general information tab there's a required section "Publications, research, or other pertinent experience" Really the only thing I have is I recently submitted a case report for publication. Is it worth it to list there?

List it. A first author publication is a great achievement! Not many interns or students get to write a case report. A PhD holder on the other hand, gets to spam their life work, but they spent 4 years more working on them while being away from clinics. (pointing at myself, an old man trying to make an impression on my CV).

 

[exotics&wildlifehopeful]

List it. A first author publication is a great achievement! Not many interns or students get to write a case report. A PhD holder on the other hand, gets to spam their life work, but they spent 4 years more working on them while being away from clinics. (pointing at myself, an old man trying to make an impression on my CV).

I should clarify it's only submitted and not published yet!! should I still list it? I only recently submitted

 

[rtyb91]

I should clarify it's only submitted and not published yet!! should I still list it? I only recently submitted

If it has been submitted you can list it too! Because you have made the effort to do so. I would for sure.

 

[supershorty]

I think where foreigners of North America come from is that to max out every chance to get into a program who is willing to sponsor visa. Plenty of Japanese candidates go for ECC specialty intern either on the match or through scramble to get to the States so that they get to be in the system, and work their way around the system after getting LORS after 1 year working with North Americans.

Sure, but that's a far cry from applying for LA when they want to do small.

 

[exotics&wildlifehopeful]

If it has been submitted you can list it too! Because you have made the effort to do so. I would for sure.

Thank you!!

 

[supershorty]

Okay, just need 1 more reference and then I can breathe a little

 

[DVM2024]

Do programs usually wait until after applications close to start looking at packets?

 

[exotics&wildlifehopeful]

For residency applications is it okay to reach out to program directors directly and express interest in their program right?

 

[rtyb91]

Sure, but that's a far cry from applying for LA when they want to do small.

desperate times ask for desperate measures haha

 

[rtyb91]

Do programs usually wait until after applications close to start looking at packets?

some look before, like OVC

 

[rtyb91]

For residency applications is it okay to reach out to program directors directly and express interest in their program right?

will not harm, and I even ask for a visit as a potential resident candidate.