Another Adcom, ask me (almost) anything

[Goro]

It does particularly when the school is a "feeder" school for the med school, like, say, the SUNY UG schools for the NYC medical schools, as well as the many fine UG schools around the NYC metro area. Someone from Kutztown State might have a harder time with Cornell or NYU, despite a high GPA etc, because the Admissions deans might not now the KS is like, but certainly know Brooklyn College, SUNY Stony Brook, or Adelphi.

The moral of the story is that if you do well anywhere you go, you're competitive. But I feel that it's a urban legend among pre-meds that because you went to school X, that it gives you a leg up over school Y. But more importantly, the idea that, say, a 3.2 from Harvard > than a 3,.8 from MSU doesn't hold water in Adcom member's minds.

Wait, so does that mean the caliber of a school's academic rigor and premed program doesn't matter? I am grateful to have graduated from WUSTL with a 3.7+, and I know for a fact that there is absolutely no grade inflation (there might actually be deflation). Is the typical premed argument that "you should go to the most prestigious university you can" entirely wrong, then? Sorry, I just don't want to feel like my time at WUSTL was a complete waste.

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[godawg300]

What about a 3.7 from Harvard vs 4.0 at a lower tier state school?

 

[Dr.Wink]

I've worked as a CNA in the intensive care unit at our local hospital for a year and a half now. I love working in the hospital, and the physicians that work on our unit are incredibly receptive to my interests in medicine, often allowing me to sit in on procedures and ask questions. This entire experience has been incredibly satisfying, but I'm wondering how this type of clinical experience measures up to that of say, a scribe's. Scribing doesn't exist at either of the two local hospitals where I live, so I went with what I considered to be the next best thing. Needless to say, I've thoroughly enjoyed my time in the ICU, and have massed an excellant collection of meaningful take-away from this experience!

Thank you

 

[Goro]

The Harvard status won't be the thing to rescue a borderline candidate. it's important to avoid the fool's errand of narrowing down an entire packet to just the numbers or what school the candidate got the numbers at. We look at the entire package,.
What about a 3.7 from Harvard vs 4.0 at a lower tier state school?


I think that you have great clinical experience!

I've worked as a CNA in the intensive care unit at our local hospital for a year and a half now. I love working in the hospital, and the physicians that work on our unit are incredibly receptive to my interests in medicine, often allowing me to sit in on procedures and ask questions. This entire experience has been incredibly satisfying, but I'm wondering how this type of clinical experience measures up to that of say, a scribe's. Scribing doesn't exist at either of the two local hospitals where I live, so I went with what I considered to be the next best thing. Needless to say, I've thoroughly enjoyed my time in the ICU, and have massed an excellant collection of meaningful take-away from this experience!

Thank you

 

[ScienceBrah]

What are you looking for in a LOR?

I had my nurse manager write one and it was awful. She really loved me but she wrote this blah letter that basically just said that she knew me, I worked in a nursing home, and that they should accept me to medical school. She was nervous about putting too much fluff in it. But isn't saying how great I am with the patients not fluff?

 

[Goro]

Something to the effect that you're responsible, dedicated, have drive, interested in what you do, caring and would make a great doctor.

That's the best case scenario. A "meh" LOR isn't going to hurt. I've seen ones where the writer just wrote something like the applicant was a student in his class and got a good grade.

Bad LORs, which can hurt you, are rare..I see one maybe 1x/interview cycle.

What are you looking for in a LOR?

I had my nurse manager write one and it was awful. She really loved me but she wrote this blah letter that basically just said that she knew me, I worked in a nursing home, and that they should accept me to medical school. She was nervous about putting too much fluff in it. But isn't saying how great I am with the patients not fluff?

 

[shenellica]

Something to the effect that you're responsible, dedicated, have drive, interested in what you do, caring and would make a great doctor.

That's the best case scenario. A "meh" LOR isn't going to hurt. I've seen ones where the writer just wrote something like the applicant was a student in his class and got a good grade.

Bad LORs, which can hurt you, are rare..I see one maybe 1x/interview cycle.

What type of bad letters have you seen? Do people write that an applicant should NEVER become a doctor? That just seems mean and the writer could have just said he didn't want to write the letter.

 

[Goro]

Bad LORs typically mention maturity issues, not being a team player, being consistently late, and not being diligent with projects. Poor committee LORs will also mention that the candidate gave poor answers in mock interviews, usually those associated with not having thought though the entire process of medicine as a career.

What type of bad letters have you seen? Do people write that an applicant should NEVER become a doctor? That just seems mean and the writer could have just said he didn't want to write the letter.

 

[DirkN]

Under what conditions do medical schools generally verify a student's reported Extracurricular Activity?


Also, is this usually done after the interview, after acceptance, or not at all?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Goro]

Could be any of the below, depending upon the school. I might inquire if I see some very unusual EC, and my wily old Admissions dean might look into anything that looks fishy. The wise LizzyM has mentioned something similar.

Under what conditions do medical schools generally verify a student's reported Extracurricular Activity?


Also, is this usually done after the interview, after acceptance, or not at all?

Thanks for the help!

 

[sunflower18]

Under what conditions do medical schools generally verify a student's reported Extracurricular Activity?


Also, is this usually done after the interview, after acceptance, or not at all?

Thanks for the help!

It wasn't verification per se, but I put on my AMCAS that I have published poetry in literary magazines, giving the name of the piece and journal along with year. At one of my interviews, the dean of admissions told me that she looked through the archives of one of the journals and found my poem and read it. I was impressed!!

 

[Hospitalized]

If an applicant has a family member who is in medical school, will adcoms view this as favorable? Curious to hear opinions.

 

[godawg300]

If an applicant has received many interviews, let's say 20+, would this be an indicator that the applicant is highly desirable? Do Adcoms just know an applicant will be sought after by many schools by reviewing their app?

 

[Goro]

C'mon dawg, this what I tell my 12 year old is a "lazy brain question". You figure it out.
If an applicant has received many interviews, let's say 20+, would this be an indicator that the applicant is highly desirable?


We ave no idea where else an applicant is applying, but we assume it's to more than our school. Some interviewers do ask where you've applied to, though.
Do Adcoms just know an applicant will be sought after by many schools by reviewing their app?


Totally irrelevant.
If an applicant has a family member who is in medical school, will adcoms view this as favorable? Curious to hear opinions.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

If an applicant has received many interviews, let's say 20+, would this be an indicator that the applicant is highly desirable? Do Adcoms just know an applicant will be sought after by many schools by reviewing their app?

Seriously?

 

[godawg300]

Seriously?

I was more curious how an applicant like this is viewed and if tufts syndrome exist at the med school level. Like an applicant being waitlisted because it's assumed they would be accepted and most likely take offers at a higher ranked school. Just hypothetical situation here.

 

[Bovary]

I'm going to quote in part a post I just made in the columbia school specific thread. It has to do with interviewer variability, and whether or not this is "corrected for" or recognized in committee, because several of us at Columbia experienced an unusually sparse interview. I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts.

"So I would reckon that yes, interviewer does matter, and (to make up a scenario), a school that accepts 50% of applicants post-interview might accept 75% of those interviewed by Interviewer A and 25% of those interviewed by Interviewer B. Individual admissions committees may (or may not) recognize that certain interviewers habitually report lower "scores" and thus correct for that when comparing applicants. Who knows."

 

[Goro]

As the wise gyngyn has pointed out, schools like Drexel will be less likely to give IIs to Columbia-capable applicants because they feel it's more work for less reward to interview those people.

So this refers to high numbers applicants, NOT those people who have lots of IIs, because there's no way Drexel would know how many IIs someone would get.

Now, at least at my school, we'll interview those people with high numbers. We catch a few every now and then.

I'm going to quote in part a post I just made in the columbia school specific thread. It has to do with interviewer variability, and whether or not this is "corrected for" or recognized in committee, because several of us at Columbia experienced an unusually sparse interview. I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts.

"So I would reckon that yes, interviewer does matter, and (to make up a scenario), a school that accepts 50% of applicants post-interview might accept 75% of those interviewed by Interviewer A and 25% of those interviewed by Interviewer B. Individual admissions committees may (or may not) recognize that certain interviewers habitually report lower "scores" and thus correct for that when comparing applicants. Who knows."

 

[jagster92]

As a soon-to-be pharmacist applying to med school, how much of each of my interviews will be centered around why i made the switch? I want my strengths to come thru and im working on honing my strategy to turn this into a positive for myself, so hopefully i can steer the conversation in the right direction on my own terms.

 

[Bovary]

As the wise gyngyn has pointed out, schools like Drexel will be less likely to give IIs to Columbia-capable applicants because they feel it's more work for less reward to interview those people.

So this refers to high numbers applicants, NOT those people who have lots of IIs, because there's no way Drexel would know how many IIs someone would get.

Now, at least at my school, we'll interview those people with high numbers. We catch a few every now and then.

I think you quoted my question but replied to godawg's question.

 

[Goro]

Don't know, but you should expect to be asked about it.

And please don't try the stale "answer highjack/deflection" method you mention below, because we see it a lot and I, for one, have little patience with it. I might stop you in mid-answer and say that "that's not what I asked you" or "you didn't answer the question", and that's not a good thing for your chances.

As a soon-to-be pharmacist applying to med school, how much of each of my interviews will be centered around why i made the switch? I want my strengths to come thru and im working on honing my strategy to turn this into a positive for myself, so hopefully i can steer the conversation in the right direction on my own terms.

 

[jagster92]

Don't know, but you should expect to be asked about it.

And please don't try the stale "answer highjack/deflection" method you mention below, because we see it a lot and I, for one, have little patience with it. I might stop you in mid-answer and say that "that's not what I asked you" or "you didn't answer the question", and that's not a good thing for your chances.

Thanks for the honesty! The short answer is that as a high school senior applying to schools i didn't know near as much about pharmacy vs. medicine as i do now, and i did not have the confidence then to commit to many years of schooling without knowing whether i could handle the rigorous curriculum. I've learned much about myself then and what my goals are as a future provider, and medicine is the only one that allows me to achieve those goals. I feel my ability to make a true impact on patients lives would be limited as a pharmacist. I just hope adcoms can understand the naivety of a teenager and that a lot of maturity can happen in a few years of school.

 

[noodlelover2233]

I applied to med school this cycle without taking a gap year. If I get accepted this cycle, can I study abroad in the spring as a senior?

Thanks!

 

[sunflower18]

Don't know, but you should expect to be asked about it.

And please don't try the stale "answer highjack/deflection" method you mention below, because we see it a lot and I, for one, have little patience with it. I might stop you in mid-answer and say that "that's not what I asked you" or "you didn't answer the question", and that's not a good thing for your chances.

Can you elaborate on what constitutes an "answer hijack/deflection"? Could you maybe give another example you've seen? I certainly don't intend to deflect any of my answers but I want to make sure that I'm not unintentionally doing so.

 

[Goro]

Me: "So what about the MCAT VR section was so challenging?"
Them: "I know I had my difficulties with that exam, but I have extensively shadowed two DOs and one MD and I'm a team player ...blah blah blah."

Can you elaborate on what constitutes an "answer hijack/deflection"? Could you maybe give another example you've seen? I certainly don't intend to deflect any of my answers but I want to make sure that I'm not unintentionally doing so.

I don't see why not.
I applied to med school this cycle without taking a gap year. If I get accepted this cycle, can I study abroad in the spring as a senior?

 

[sunflower18]

Me: "So what about the MCAT VR section was so challenging?"
Them: "I know I had my difficulties with that exam, but I have extensively shadowed two DOs and one MD and I'm a team player ...blah blah blah."

Ohhhhh. Gotcha. Thanks!!

 

[pluto101]

Me: "So what about the MCAT VR section was so challenging?"
Them: "I know I had my difficulties with that exam, but I have extensively shadowed two DOs and one MD and I'm a team player ...blah blah blah."

What about something along the lines of, "Well, I struggled that day, and my English skills weren't solid at the time, BUT I'm doing X Y & Z awesome things to compensate, and I don't think the score accurately reflects my ability to interact with patients because of A B &C."

Instead of completely changing the topic, you simply emphasize your positive attributes - all while keeping your answer related to the question (or at least, the deeper point of the question). Would you still consider that sort of answer to be evasive?

 

[Goro]

That example is OK. The key is to not wander off too far from the interviewer's prompt.

What about something along the lines of, "Well, I struggled that day, and my English skills weren't solid at the time, BUT I'm doing X Y & Z awesome things to compensate, and I don't think the score accurately reflects my ability to interact with patients because of A B &C."

Instead of completely changing the topic, you simply emphasize your positive attributes - all while keeping your answer related to the question (or at least, the deeper point of the question). Would you still consider that sort of answer to be evasive?

 

[medschoolworries]

.

 

[flyingwarthog]

[Deleted]

 

[Goro]

You have what I call a "compelling story". This will not be a replacement for getting good grades etc, but something that gets the attention of Adcoms is a good way. Let's face it, Americans love an underdog...it's what we do. And yes, alcoholism IS an illness. I have a dear sister who is an alcoholic, and has been sober for >20 years.

The key thing is, does this explain "who am I?" and "Why Medicine?"; if so, it's fair game for a PS.

One of my parents has suffered from severe alcoholism since I was born and as a result I have not seen that parent in about 15 years. This is one of the major reasons I want to go into medicine. Simply put, I just want to help people who are sick not only to help that person him/herself, but also because I know from experience how illness can damage a family. How would admissions committees view this situation? Is it okay to regard alcoholism as a medical "illness"? My biggest reservation about even mentioning this in my application is that I'm sort of worried that adcoms may be troubled by an applicant with an alcoholic parent given that it is known to run in families. Thanks for the time.

They are at my school. Remember that most people take gap years because they haven't had time to do all the necessary stuff in the typical 4 year stretch of UG. So one can be a pest and say "what, you couldn't do all that in four years? Not good at time mgt, are you?" So no, they're not automatically good for everyone, nor necessary. If one can be a good student, and devote, say, your 1st and 2nd years to clinical ECs, 3rd year to non-clinical ECs, and 4th year to research and a few more clinical ECs, then there's no need for a gap year.

A very well respected and experienced professor at my university insists that gap years are looked at very positively. He emphasized that schools actually hold student with gap years in a more positive light than students who went straight through. He states that the dean at some medical schools actually encouraged professors to encourage students to take gap years.

How true is this? Are gap years looked at positively no matter what? I know that they're positive if you are trying to improve something in your profile (like grades, clinical experience, etc.) but he insists that they are good for EVERYBODY even if you have a good app.

 

[thestrugglingtraveler]

Thank you so much Mr or Ms AdCom for the posts here. I have a question. I did very poorly in science classes in college. I got lots of C's and 7 F's.

After college I got a job in a lab. I made mistakes and after three months got fired.

After that I went to a psychologist for help. I realized then that something is very wrong with me. The lab job was easy but I kept making mistakes. He gave me a long test and said that I have ADHD, anxiety and most likely depression. He said I have a good IQ though. He refereed me to a psychiatrist and he gave me medications for ADHD anxiety and depression.

It has helped me a great deal. I now work as a driver (a very menial job)

If I now take classes and get all A's, will the AdComm's still consider me? I think it was the adhd and depression that was messing me up. But will they believe me? It is a common excuse i am sure. If I take classes and score good on MCAT do I have a shot? I want to go into psychiatry.

thank you so much once again.

 

[AORiverContra]

When Adcoms look at an applicant's materials, are they looking at a computer screen, or do they look at physical pages?

 

[Goro]

Yes, and there are med schools that believe in reinvention. Retake all F/D/C science coursework and consider either aiming for DO programs, or try a SMP for MD schools.

If I now take classes and get all A's, will the AdComm's still consider me? I think it was the adhd and depression that was messing me up. But will they believe me? It is a common excuse i am sure. If I take classes and score good on MCAT do I have a shot? I want to go into psychiatry. I think i can do good on the MCAT, I get very good practice test scores (37-40). I do good on standard exams, also got good SAT scores.

At my school we get hard copy.

When Adcoms look at an applicant's materials, are they looking at a computer screen, or do they look at physical pages?

 

[Qwerty2013]

is it worth taking off an extra year to pursue research (not sure about about actual publications), add volunteering/community service? (I have good GPA/LoRs as of now)

 

[thestrugglingtraveler]

Thank you so much Goro, it is very nice to know this. If you don't mind me asking, would does the UC Berkeley Extension Advanced Bioscience have a good reputation? I am thinking of taking the online biology courses because it is flexible. The exams are proctored. Would it have the same worth as a SMP? Thank you again sir, it is very nice of you.

 

[moop]

These pages are making me forget that @hushcom is actually running this thread!

 

[kthxbai]

You have what I call a "compelling story". This will not be a replacement for getting good grades etc, but something that gets the attention of Adcoms is a good way. Let's face it, Americans love an underdog...it's what we do. And yes, alcoholism IS an illness. I have a dear sister who is an alcoholic, and has been sober for >20 years.

The key thing is, does this explain "who am I?" and "Why Medicine?"; if so, it's fair game for a PS.





They are at my school. Remember that most people take gap years because they haven't had time to do all the necessary stuff in the typical 4 year stretch of UG. So one can be a pest and say "what, you couldn't do all that in four years? Not good at time mgt, are you?" So no, they're not automatically good for everyone, nor necessary. If one can be a good student, and devote, say, your 1st and 2nd years to clinical ECs, 3rd year to non-clinical ECs, and 4th year to research and a few more clinical ECs, then there's no need for a gap year.

A very well respected and experienced professor at my university insists that gap years are looked at very positively. He emphasized that schools actually hold student with gap years in a more positive light than students who went straight through. He states that the dean at some medical schools actually encouraged professors to encourage students to take gap years.

How true is this? Are gap years looked at positively no matter what? I know that they're positive if you are trying to improve something in your profile (like grades, clinical experience, etc.) but he insists that they are good for EVERYBODY even if you have a good app.

A comment on the gap year: not all of us knew we wanted to become doctors from the first day at undergrad. Some of us wanted a break from schooling too. Yet others wanted to make some money and achieve other goals before beginning the medical journey.

I'm 3 for 3, and I'm sure others have a variety of compelling reasons for taking a year or two before matriculating - time management none withstanding.

 

[Goro]

If you do not have these experiences then you're just asking for a rejection. Good numbers get you to the door, but ECs get you through the door. The research powerhouses will require research experience, even if they don't come out and actually say it. You don't need a publication, just that you've learned something about the scientific method.

Thing about clinical ECs this way: would you by a new car without test driving it? Buy a new suit without trying it on? You need to show us that you know what you're getting into, and that you really want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.

is it worth taking off an extra year to pursue research (not sure about about actual publications), add volunteering/community service? (I have good GPA/LoRs as of now)

I've had students come through this program, and yes, it's fine. I consider SMPs to be the top of the line in terms of showing that you can handle medical school, because they mimic a med school curriculum. The Berkeley extension and it's cousins are more like post-bac programs, they're designed for either GPA repair in the pre-reqs, or provide the pre-reqs to career-changers.

Thank you so much Goro, it is very nice to know this. If you don't mind me asking, would does the UC Berkeley Extension Advanced Bioscience have a good reputation? I am thinking of taking the online biology courses because it is flexible. The exams are proctored. Would it have the same worth as a SMP? Thank you again sir, it is very nice of you.

Credit has to be given where it's due...I am grateful to Hushcom for starting this thread, and kindly allowing me to poach it, while he takes a well-deserved rest. I do hope we'll be hearing back from my learned colleague soon!
These pages are making me forget that @@hushcom is actually running this thread!

 

[Aerus]

I am grateful to Hushcom for starting this thread, and kindly allowing me to poach it,

You're grateful? Other way around! We're grateful for your spending time answering questions and not letting this useful thread die!

 

[flyingwarthog]

.

 

[Goro]

Very simple; you answer truthfully, just as you have here. I, for one, am fully aware of what toxic relationships are like within families.

Thanks Goro. I have one follow up question. What if an adcom asks me something like "how have you helped your parent with their alcoholism?" The fact is that I haven't done anything whatsoever to help my parent. If I told that to an adcom I feel like I'd come off as contradictory - I want to help people medically because I don't want other families to suffer, yet I haven't done anything to help my own parent. How could I address the fact that I haven't actually done anything to help my parent? I guess my thought is that **** gets complicated when its your own parent and that parent hasn't tried to contact me in years. Having an alcoholic parent is still a major reason for me wanting to go into medicine, but I guess don't want to get myself stuck in some awkward conversation in an interview in the future and I want to address it clearly in my PS. Thanks for the help.

 

[mdInquisitor]

Goro, thank you for taking the time to answer questions. Would it be possible for you to put questions before answers when quoting posts to reply to? It feels unnatural to read the bottom of a post first, then the top. Unless I'm the only one who feels this way in which case I'll just deal with it.

 

[alabamy]

.

 

[farnell]

are you serious?

Can't say I disagree with him, it just never bothered me enough to bring it up.

 

[moop]

Goro, thank you for taking the time to answer questions. Would it be possible for you to put questions before answers when quoting posts to reply to? It feels unnatural to read the bottom of a post first, then the top. Unless I'm the only one who feels this way in which case I'll just deal with it.

lol. Noob SDNer is noob.

That is just @Goro's style. Get widdit or get out

 

[tdod]

I really want to be a sports medicine doctor because I love sports and nothing would make me happier than being able t to help athletes get their health in order and return to the field.

Will adcoms look down upon sports medicine aspirations, since it is not dealing with life-and-death conditions such as oncology does?

 

[baxt1412]

I really want to be a sports medicine doctor because I love sports and nothing would make me happier than being able t to help athletes get their health in order and return to the field.

Will adcoms look down upon sports medicine aspirations, since it is not dealing with life-and-death conditions such as oncology does?

I'm no ADCOM, but no that would be incredibly silly. No sane person would think that... why do you think they would? Medicine isn't strictly about saving lives in an emergent situation.

 

[moop]

I'm no ADCOM, but no that would be incredibly silly. No sane person would think that... why do you think they would? Medicine isn't strictly about saving lives in an emergent situation.

Sports medicine = ortho. Still think that's looked down upon?

 

[baxt1412]

Sports medicine = ortho. Still think that's looked down upon?

me? i don't think any medical profession is particularly more "looked down" upon than any other. if it is, then the ADCOM is ridiculous.