Another Adcom, ask me (almost) anything

[JustRandomLetters]

@hushcom will transferring between schools during undergrad make a bad impression or is it irrelevant?

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[hushcom]

Hi @hushcom!

If an applicant went to an international grad school but withdrew, would you be more concerned if the school was or wasn't listed on the schools attended section of their app? I might be briefly mentioning it in my PS but (since no credits transferred and no transcript is required) wasn't sure if listing it would just draw unnecessary attention. On the other hand I feel like the missing year in the middle of my undergrad might be odd (and yes, I did attend that grad school before completing my BS - I came back to finish up undergrad after I withdrew).

Thanks!

Per AMCAS: "You will also list every post-secondary institution where you were enrolled for at least one course, even if credits have been transferred, no credits were earned, or you withdrew."

 

[hushcom]

@hushcom will transferring between schools during undergrad make a bad impression or is it irrelevant?

One transfer does not raise many eyebrows, especially if the reason is fairly obvious (CC to university, expensive school to cheaper school, etc.). Two transfers is less common but usually occurs for understandable reasons. Three or more and I would be concerned.

 

[JustRandomLetters]

One transfer does not raise many eyebrows, especially if the reason is fairly obvious (CC to university, expensive school to cheaper school, etc.). Two transfers is less common but usually occurs for understandable reasons. Three or more and I would be concerned.

I will have had 2+ transfers by the time I apply. Being in the military, I transferred once. I will transfer once more when I separate. I'm debating (specially now that you've answered me) whether to transfer a 3rd time to transfer to my home state to save some money.

 

[hushcom]

I will have had 2+ transfers by the time I apply. Being in the military, I transferred once. I will transfer once more when I separate. I'm debating (specially now that you've answered me) whether to transfer a 3rd time to transfer to my home state to save some money.

You should have told me you were military. That is mitigating.

 

[jazian]

Does going to a top premed prep school such as WUSTL and JHU help your application? Does it help mitigate a slightly lower gpa?

 

[Goro]

No.

Does going to a top premed prep school such as WUSTL and JHU help your application? Does it help mitigate a slightly lower gpa?

 

[aristrutz523]

In your opinion, can a strong MCAT and strong leadership/extra curriculars/research experience compensate for a mediocre GPA? (3.5cgpa/3.34sgpa)
At least to get into the interview phase, that is?

 

[Doug Underhill]

How many LORs should you have? I can easily get two from science professors and one from someone other than a science professor, but there are people on SDN with like six or seven.

Is a letter from a volunteer coordinator more impressive to you if the person is an attending physician rather than a resident or a person without a medical degree? gyngyn explicitly said "yes" but LizzyM was more ambiguous on the matter.

 

[hushcom]

Does going to a top premed prep school such as WUSTL and JHU help your application? Does it help mitigate a slightly lower gpa?

Sometimes we get applications from people with lower GPAs who have gone through extremely difficult undergraduate programs, like aerospace at MIT, and that can be mitigating. But generally the answer is no.

 

[hushcom]

In your opinion, can a strong MCAT and strong leadership/extra curriculars/research experience compensate for a mediocre GPA? (3.5cgpa/3.34sgpa)
At least to get into the interview phase, that is?

This is not a simple equation, but if one part of your application is on the weaker side then other areas need to be stronger. I have interviewed some people with middling GPAs and tons of ECs, and they left me the impression that they did not prioritize and allocate their time very well, opting for what was fun and interesting over what was boring but necessary.

 

[hushcom]

How many LORs should you have? I can easily get two from science professors and one from someone other than a science professor, but there are people on SDN with like six or seven.

The answer depends on how many people you have in your life that are willing to say compelling things about you.

Is a letter from a volunteer coordinator more impressive to you if the person is an attending physician rather than a resident or a person without a medical degree? gyngyn explicitly said "yes" but LizzyM was more ambiguous on the matter.

If the content of the letter is comparable, then I will side with gyngyn on this one.

 

[tty2]

I had a question about this current application cycle. I am a senior in college with a 3.9 GPA/35+ MCAT, and what I thought were decent extracurriculars (Research with one publication, medical experiences in a hospital and free clinic, some shadowing, other non-medical service activities, etc.). I went on 8 interviews for this cycle and as of now, have been accepted at 2, waitlisted at 4, rejected at 1, and still waiting for a decision at the other. I thought most of these interviews went well, though I know my perception as an applicant doesn't mean that much.

I knew that I obviously would not get accepted at every medical school, but does the fact that I got waitlisted at all my top choices just mean that I am bad at interviewing? In other words, to what degree is my interview considered with the written parts of my application after being invited to interview?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Goro]

A strong MCAT and a good list will get you further.

In your opinion, can a strong MCAT and strong leadership/extra curriculars/research experience compensate for a mediocre GPA? (3.5cgpa/3.34sgpa)
At least to get into the interview phase, that is?

That's what I sense. Interviews will make or break you. My school has rejected 4.0/40 MCAT people.
I knew that I obviously would not get accepted at every medical school, but does the fact that I got waitlisted at all my top choices just mean that I am bad at interviewing? In other words, to what degree is my interview considered with the written parts of my application after being invited to interview?

 

[hushcom]

I had a question about this current application cycle. I am a senior in college with a 3.9 GPA/35+ MCAT, and what I thought were decent extracurriculars (Research with one publication, medical experiences in a hospital and free clinic, some shadowing, other non-medical service activities, etc.). I went on 8 interviews for this cycle and as of now, have been accepted at 2, waitlisted at 4, rejected at 1, and still waiting for a decision at the other. I thought most of these interviews went well, though I know my perception as an applicant doesn't mean that much.

I knew that I obviously would not get accepted at every medical school, but does the fact that I got waitlisted at all my top choices just mean that I am bad at interviewing? In other words, to what degree is my interview considered with the written parts of my application after being invited to interview?

Thanks in advance.

I would not infer that you are "bad at interviewing" from your situation. This is a brutally competitive process. I do not think it is unrealistic that you might come off of at least two of your current wait lists, meaning you could end up nabbing 4+ acceptances out of 8 interviews. Take that sentiment to the rest of pre-allo and see how much sympathy you garner.

 

[tty2]

Goro and hushcom, thank you both for your insight.

 

[amad01]

How many LORs should you have? I can easily get two from science professors and one from someone other than a science professor, but there are people on SDN with like six or seven.

Is a letter from a volunteer coordinator more impressive to you if the person is an attending physician rather than a resident or a person without a medical degree? gyngyn explicitly said "yes" but LizzyM was more ambiguous on the matter.

Some schools require more letters than others. Plan ahead with letter writers before you apply so you don't end up scrambling for a letter come crunch time. One school I applied to required 6 letters, used to require 7. Interfolio is amazing.

 

[hushcom]

Hello!

Over this past gap year, I initially scribed in a private practice for one month, but accepted and switched over to a research position in industry afterwards due to a few reasons. Among others: 1) Living alone in a major city in CA was extremely tough to do on a scribe's wage, and 2) I was uninsured (no benefits as a scribe) and the industry job offered health insurance.

That being said, I learned a great deal about the medical field and really did enjoy my time working as a scribe. Obviously, I will not be asking for a LOR after working only such a short period of time, but I was wondering if scribing would be worth listing as an EC on AMCAS. Would medical schools frown upon changing jobs for the above reasons?

Thank you in advance!

Yes, medical schools will look down on your decision to obtain a living wage and access to health care. [/sarcasm]

At your age people have brief engagements with employment all the time. If you learned anything valuable while you were scribing then include it.

 

[bluesturf]

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[cke11]

Hey Doc, I'd like to say I am very impressed with you keeping up with all of these questions and responses.
Just one quick question, how many D1 athletes do you see at your interviews? I play soccer at a D1 school, but I've always been
curious as to how many D1 athletes truly excelled at their sport and were able to put up a stellar GPA/MCAT. Just asking
because I know some of my teammates play very minimally if at all.

 

[ShowandTell]

I have somewhat of a predicament. I've been accepted to two schools and I wouldn't mind attending either one. However, I do strongly prefer one over the other. Attending this school will require me to take one class over the summer which I planned on doing. The problem is since I'm enrolling as a non-degree student, I won't be able to register until May 7th. Since the last day to hold on to multiple acceptances is April 30th, there is a potential chance that if I were to drop my other acceptance, I wouldn't be able to enroll in the class if it's filled and then I couldn't attend either medical school in the fall. What should I do? Would contacting the school and informing them of this situation be advisable?

 

[calisurfer19]

I'm an x-ray tech in the AF and had a question about whether or not to put something in my PS or anywhere in my application. I performed invasive imaging procedures while under the supervision and guidance of radiologists I worked with. I don't want to make it seem like I'm willing to go to any measure in pursuit of becoming a doctor, but I did want to show that I'm willing to challenge myself during said pursuit. Any thoughts would be most appreciated, thank you.

 

[hushcom]

So in the case that you described, when someone is on the waitlist at a west coast school and are accepted by their state school on the east coast, would you recommend a letter of intent/interest? And if so, when would be the best time to send that letter?

I would go ahead and send an LOI as soon as possible. Depending on the west coast school's mechanism for dealing with the wait list, there is a small chance it could help you. Just don't hold your breath.

 

[hushcom]

Hey Doc, I'd like to say I am very impressed with you keeping up with all of these questions and responses.
Just one quick question, how many D1 athletes do you see at your interviews? I play soccer at a D1 school, but I've always been
curious as to how many D1 athletes truly excelled at their sport and were able to put up a stellar GPA/MCAT. Just asking
because I know some of my teammates play very minimally if at all.

I cannot give you a precise estimate, other than "once in awhile."

 

[hushcom]

I have somewhat of a predicament. I've been accepted to two schools and I wouldn't mind attending either one. However, I do strongly prefer one over the other. Attending this school will require me to take one class over the summer which I planned on doing. The problem is since I'm enrolling as a non-degree student, I won't be able to register until May 7th. Since the last day to hold on to multiple acceptances is April 30th, there is a potential chance that if I were to drop my other acceptance, I wouldn't be able to enroll in the class if it's filled and then I couldn't attend either medical school in the fall. What should I do? Would contacting the school and informing them of this situation be advisable?

Call your strongly preferred school and explain the situation to someone admissions. I have a difficult time believing the school will lose an accepted applicant based on registration for a single summer class.

Also, the AAMC "traffic rules" that stipulate the April 30 deadline are just recommendations, with no real mechanism for enforcement other than schools giving out ultimatums to those who disregard the rules. If you really need to, I am willing to bet you could drag your feet between April 30 and May 7 without real consequence.

 

[hushcom]

I performed invasive imaging procedures while under the supervision and guidance of radiologists I worked with. I don't want to make it seem like I'm willing to go to any measure in pursuit of becoming a doctor,

That is not how it comes off. Doctors perform procedures all the time, so the details of whatever you have done are unlikely to impress.

 

[radeksrat]

Why is it that schools (or at least your school) do not disclose an applicant's position on the waitlist? It seems like it would be largely beneficial to applicants to know their position on the waitlist and, say, the lowest position on the list that got in in the last couple years (i.e. "in the previous application cycle everyone ranked 50th and higher on the waitlist was ultimately offered an acceptance"). What's the rationale for schools not to disclose this sort of information?

 

[justadream]

Why is it that schools (or at least your school) do not disclose an applicant's position on the waitlist? It seems like it would be largely beneficial to applicants to know their position on the waitlist and, say, the lowest position on the list that got in in the last couple years (i.e. "in the previous application cycle everyone ranked 50th and higher on the waitlist was ultimately offered an acceptance"). What's the rationale for schools not to disclose this sort of information?

There's little benefit to them.

Schools put you on the WL because they are still interested in you. If they then tell you that you are on the bottom of the WL, then you might immediately withdraw. If that happens, the school just lost another candidate.

Also, many WL are not ranked. It's pretty hard to rank a list of like 100+ people in numerical order.

It would be similar to you telling every school you interview at the exact "internal ranking" you have for that school By showing up to the interview, you are probably somewhat interested in the school. However, the school might really be your #35 choice. You still need to give out the impression that the school is your #1 choice. You do that by not disclosing your honest "ranking" of the school.

 

[hushcom]

Why is it that schools (or at least your school) do not disclose an applicant's position on the waitlist? It seems like it would be largely beneficial to applicants to know their position on the waitlist and, say, the lowest position on the list that got in in the last couple years (i.e. "in the previous application cycle everyone ranked 50th and higher on the waitlist was ultimately offered an acceptance"). What's the rationale for schools not to disclose this sort of information?

How would this benefit applicants?

 

[velodork]

Sorry if this is a repeat question/request @hushcom... Can you elaborate on the "importance" of "applying early" for those of us who will not have our apps ready on June 1? Is there a universal cut off date for submitting applications "early" vs "late" vs (don't even bother)? My plan is to apply mid August with pretty average stats but an otherwise good application but the general consensus on SDN seems to be about 50/50 on whether or not that is too late...

 

[spade92]

If most of my letters are positive but one person mentions that I was late sometimes and sometimes didn't come to class but was still a good student, how much would it hurt? @hushcom

To be honest, I don't find attending class all the time all that helpful and can do well in it without regularly attending.

 

[hushcom]

Sorry if this is a repeat question/request @hushcom... Can you elaborate on the "importance" of "applying early" for those of us who will not have our apps ready on June 1? Is there a universal cut off date for submitting applications "early" vs "late" vs (don't even bother)? My plan is to apply mid August with pretty average stats but an otherwise good application but the general consensus on SDN seems to be about 50/50 on whether or not that is too late...

There is no magic date, but earlier is generally better. The adcom mood at the beginning of a cycle is very different from the mood in the middle and at the end of a cycle, and your odds are better at the outset. That said, we interview great people right up to the end, including some who submitted beyond August, and some of them get in. If you cannot get your app together until August then it won't kill your chances. But if things do not work out, try to get it in earlier next year.

 

[hushcom]

If most of my letters are positive but one person mentions that I was late sometimes and sometimes didn't come to class but was still a good student, how much would it hurt? @hushcom

To be honest, I don't find attending class all the time all that helpful and can do well in it without regularly attending.

That would be a strange and concerning letter. Usually when letter writers want to say something negative they use very careful, coded language. A letter that mentions tardiness and absences would suggest a significant problem with you and/or the writer, and neither option is very appealing.

 

[spade92]

That would be a strange and concerning letter. Usually when letter writers want to say something negative they use very careful, coded language. A letter that mentions tardiness and absences would suggest a significant problem with you and/or the writer, and neither option is very appealing.

Well I plan to ask to for a strong letter of recommendation when approaching this person so if they agree, they probably wouldn't mention it right?

Is there any way they can mention that with neutral undertones? Hopefully they don't remember. I'm taking a mini 2 week course over the summer with him in addition to the one I already took so I will def try to be on time and attend all the classes and build a good relationship with him so he can have a positive view of me. I did well in his class and he likes me so I think he could speak to my abilities of being a successful medical student.

 

[Vain Brother]

How would this benefit applicants?

honestly, it would a lot. maybe not in terms of getting into schools, but in terms of making living arrangements, significant others making living arrangements...

 

[Yusuke777]

Hello hushcom,

Thank you for taking the time to read and answer all of these questions, first of all!

I want to ask if you think it is unorthodox to have an attending physician write a letter of recommendation for me on the basis of a couple medical students who I volunteer/work with regularly recommending me to him/her?

 

[skippypeanutbutter]

Hi hushcom, like everyone's said, thank you for doing this. It's definitely been really helpful.
My question is: What do you do when an applicant has one set of stats that are above average, and another set that is below? For example, a 4.0 GPA in a relatively tough major w/no grade inflation, bottom 10% MCAT for your institution, but extensive and solid ECs?
Thanks.

 

[hushcom]

Well I plan to ask to for a strong letter of recommendation when approaching this person so if they agree, they probably wouldn't mention it right?

Is there any way they can mention that with neutral undertones? Hopefully they don't remember. I'm taking a mini 2 week course over the summer with him in addition to the one I already took so I will def try to be on time and attend all the classes and build a good relationship with him so he can have a positive view of me. I did well in his class and he likes me so I think he could speak to my abilities of being a successful medical student.

The standard practice is to only write letters that are positive, even if they are superficial. If this professor does not feel that he/she can do that, then he/she should not agree to do it. I would not lose any sleep over this, after a few years of service I have seen only 1-2 letters (out of thousands) that said anything overtly negative.

 

[hushcom]

honestly, it would a lot. maybe not in terms of getting into schools, but in terms of making living arrangements, significant others making living arrangements...

Most people who are favorably positioned on wait lists will come off in the first two weeks of May this year, which is ample time to make living arrangements. Those who are further down remain in limbo regardless. As mentioned above, some schools do not have ranked wait lists, and others have rankings but reserve some flexibility in choosing between people with similar ranks.

Some years ago, I had an acquaintance who applied to a medical school where she had been a lab tech. She was wait listed, and spoke with the Dean of Admissions who apparently told her to expect some very good news based on where she was on the list. She even turned down an OOS acceptance because she was so confident. Unfortunately the list did not move as much as usual that year, she did not get in, and ended up going DO. I strongly doubt she felt very helped by the information.

It is understandable for applicants to want their immediate problems solved in a timely manner, but increasing transparency at this level would have a lot of unintended consequences, not all of them good.

 

[hushcom]

Hi hushcom, like everyone's said, thank you for doing this. It's definitely been really helpful.
My question is: What do you do when an applicant has one set of stats that are above average, and another set that is below? For example, a 4.0 GPA in a relatively tough major w/no grade inflation, bottom 10% MCAT for your institution, but extensive and solid ECs?
Thanks.

Just tell me the MCAT score.

Edit: After consideration, I don't think you need to tell me the MCAT score. Suffice to say that most of our 10th percentile MCATers bring something to the table other than a high GPA and the usual EC's.

 

[hushcom]

Hello hushcom,

Thank you for taking the time to read and answer all of these questions, first of all!

I want to ask if you think it is unorthodox to have an attending physician write a letter of recommendation for me on the basis of a couple medical students who I volunteer/work with regularly recommending me to him/her?

It is "orthodox" to get LORs from people (professors, physicians, supervisors, clergy, etc.) who know you and possess some authority in their respective fields. That is really all there is to consider.

 

[xerei]

Hey hushcom,
Thanks again for doing all of this. SDN owes you.

My question - I know for DO schools you need a DO LOR. Is there any stigma with sending a DO LOR to an MD school (or a top 20 one, if that's a separate answer)?

Thanks.

 

[hushcom]

Hey hushcom,
Thanks again for doing all of this. SDN owes you.

My question - I know for DO schools you need a DO LOR. Is there any stigma with sending a DO LOR to an MD school (or a top 20 one, if that's a separate answer)?

Thanks.

A practicing physician is a practicing physician, so the content of the letter should trump (by far) the letters that come after the name of the author. That said, I cannot guarantee that some jerk will not imbue something negative into it, but a good letter is a good letter, and will be a net positive.

 

[Vain Brother]

Most people who are favorably positioned on wait lists will come off in the first two weeks of May this year, which is ample time to make living arrangements. Those who are further down remain in limbo regardless. As mentioned above, some schools do not have ranked wait lists, and others have rankings but reserve some flexibility in choosing between people with similar ranks.

Some years ago, I had an acquaintance who applied to a medical school where she had been a lab tech. She was wait listed, and spoke with the Dean of Admissions who apparently told her to expect some very good news based on where she was on the list. She even turned down an OOS acceptance because she was so confident. Unfortunately the list did not move as much as usual that year, she did not get in, and ended up going DO. I strongly doubt she felt very helped by the information.

It is understandable for applicants to want their immediate problems solved in a timely manner, but increasing transparency at this level would have a lot of unintended consequences, not all of them good.

well with all respect to your friend, the lesson from this story is to not withdraw your only MD acceptance until you have another offer in writing, not necessarily that more information is bad

i understand that the bulk of waitlist movement will occur within the next 4 weeks, which all things considered is plenty of time to make living arrangements at whatever school the person is accepted to. but there are often other people affected by this wait, particularly for non-traditional students. while we're giving examples, take me: i've been accepted to 3 schools but am on the waitlist for my state school, which happens to be in the town my girlfriend and i live in. if i get into the state school, my girlfriend and i will continue living in the apartment we're living in now. if i don't, she has a friend who would move in with her. the problem is that, due to the particulars of her own lease, that friend needs to make a decision by may 15. what happens when it's may 14 and i haven't heard? i don't know, i guess i'm just hoping to have heard back by then. but it's difficult having to leave my friends in limbo like this.

obviously, at a certain point admissions committees can't be worrying about how the applicant's friend-of-friends are affected by the decisions they render. but just know that there are good-faith reasons, not just the usual premed neuroticism, why people would like to have an idea of what their waitlist chances are

 

[hushcom]

well with all respect to your friend, the lesson from this story is to not withdraw your only MD acceptance until you have another offer in writing, not necessarily that more information is bad

I did not say that more information is bad, but I do think that disseminating wait list data would ease some problems and create others, including ones that neither of us have thought of. This person was not a friend, but an acquaintance. I also thought she made a huge mistake by turning down an acceptance, but even smart people can make bad choices when they fuse emotion with incomplete data.

i understand that the bulk of waitlist movement will occur within the next 4 weeks, which all things considered is plenty of time to make living arrangements at whatever school the person is accepted to. but there are often other people affected by this wait, particularly for non-traditional students. while we're giving examples, take me: i've been accepted to 3 schools but am on the waitlist for my state school, which happens to be in the town my girlfriend and i live in. if i get into the state school, my girlfriend and i will continue living in the apartment we're living in now. if i don't, she has a friend who would move in with her. the problem is that, due to the particulars of her own lease, that friend needs to make a decision by may 15. what happens when it's may 14 and i haven't heard? i don't know, i guess i'm just hoping to have heard back by then. but it's difficult having to leave my friends in limbo like this.

That's life. Look at the bright side, at least you aren't waiting to find out where you will be deployed.

 

[deleted158872]

Is it extremely important to have updated LORs and personal statement every time you reapply?

 

[Vain Brother]

I did not say that more information is bad, but I do think that disseminating wait list data would ease some problems and create others, including ones that neither of us have thought of. This person was not a friend, but an acquaintance. I also thought she made a huge mistake by turning down an acceptance, but even smart people can make bad choices when they fuse emotion with incomplete data.



That's life. Look at the bright side, at least you aren't waiting to find out where you will be deployed.

yeah i mean i get it, ultimately we're the ones who want to get into the schools, and beggars can't be picky. it's not some massive injustice or anything. but there are schools that manage to do this without the admissions office burning down

 

[hushcom]

yeah i mean i get it, ultimately we're the ones who want to get into the schools, and beggars can't be picky. it's not some massive injustice or anything. but there are schools that manage to do this without the admissions office burning down

Are there schools that will tell applicants where they are on the wait list?

 

[hushcom]

Is it extremely important to have updated LORs and personal statement every time you reapply?

If you are reapplying for the first time immediately following an unsuccessful cycle I think it is okay to reuse your LORs. If you had a "risky" personal statement I would rewrite it to be safer. If I were on my third cycle (or more) then I would freshen everything up as much as possible.

 

[Vain Brother]

Are there schools that will tell applicants where they are on the wait list?

i believe SUNY upstate does this