Anyone here of Arabian or Persian descent?

[tehassan]

Maygyver, if an Arab from North Africa "looks" African American, don't you think they'd use that to their advantage and put that on the application?

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[tehassan]

Even though Spaniards are white people, I'd go with Hispanic in this case b/c it's only going to help you.

My point exactly. I agree.

 

[Maygyver]

Maygyver, if an Arab from North Africa "looks" African American, don't you think they'd use that to their advantage and put that on the application?

If they want to go through a loophole, then sure. Personally, I would be embarrassed if the only way I could get into a school was to try to "trick" adcoms into thinking I was a URM. But then again, different strokes for different folks. If you can sleep at night knowing that, then go ahead. I'm pretty sure people understand the difference and they will be able to tell during your interview. I guess it comes down to your morals and if you are willing to stretch the truth. Personally, I think that's pretty weak.

 

[tehassan]

Alright...so say an Arab has a 3.6 GPA all around, a 3.8 science gpa, and scored mid-twenty DAT scores. He thinks he still has a better chance at getting in due to competitiveness by putting down that he's a URM rather than not saying anything.

Wouldn't you do that? If you have that opportunity, then why wouldn't you take it? If you think it's cheating the system then we need to remember the system was created a certain way for a reason.

 

[Maygyver]

Alright...so say an Arab has a 3.6 GPA all around, a 3.8 science gpa, and scored mid-twenty DAT scores. He thinks he still has a better chance at getting in due to competitiveness by putting down that he's a URM rather than not saying anything.

Wouldn't you do that? If you have that opportunity, then why wouldn't you take it? If you think it's cheating the system then we need to remember the system was created a certain way for a reason.

No, I wouldn't do that. Either, I would be optimistic that the GPA was good enough to get into school, or I would accept the fact that any classes that I didn't do well in that affect my GPA were MY fault and own up to. Fess up to your mistakes and bad classes and learn from your mistakes instead of trying to sweep them under the rug and be proud of what you have done already.

Yeah, the system was created to give minorities who are UNDER-REPRESENTED in the profession a greater opportunity to thrive and go back and provide care to those of the same race. People are more likely to see a professional of the same race as them because they can relate better.

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

Alright...so say an Arab has a 3.6 GPA all around, a 3.8 science gpa, and scored mid-twenty DAT scores. He thinks he still has a better chance at getting in due to competitiveness by putting down that he's a URM rather than not saying anything.

Wouldn't you do that? If you have that opportunity, then why wouldn't you take it? If you think it's cheating the system then we need to remember the system was created a certain way for a reason.

The system wasn't created so Arab's who look African American can slip through loopholes. It was created to create more diversity in the health care field.

I'm not saying I wouldn't do it if it was me. It's just morally wrong. Would you keep a $100 if you found it in the street with no ID or would you turn it into the police?

 

[2PacClone23]

kos doost daram

 

[molar3]

everyone calm down and have a falafel or some bagh lava.

 

[dentalWorks]

falafel with ranch are soo damn good

 

[molar3]

mmmm yum! we have the same taste in food. sdn crush escalated 2 fold.
judge me.

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

i've always wanted to try one of those falafel hot dogs with cinnamon and bacon on top....

 

[MAdental]

Molar3 is simply too funny for this thread lol
I am persian and I wish i could be categorized as URM, cuz damn i am. But i guess I am white when it comes to dental school admission. I however, will mention in my essay that i am Iranian and i will let those ppl know how much my family and i busted our butt to be here.

 

[MAdental]

i've always wanted to try one of those falafel hot dogs with cinnamon and bacon on top....

You gota go for it. When i was a kid, my dad used to make them all the time. Its like heaven.

 

[Maygyver]

Molar3 is simply too funny for this thread lol
I am persian and I wish i could be categorized as URM, cuz damn i am. But i guess I am white when it comes to dental school admission. I however, will mention in my essay that i am Iranian and i will let those ppl know how much my family and i busted our butt to be here.

Just because you aren't a URM, doesn't mean you can't use your history as a positive.

 

[tehassan]

GPA was not my concern when I posted this. My whole point was not to cheat the system, but to ask what other Arabs/Persians were doing. In the grand scheme of things, were definitely a minority in the US. Arabs are absolutely under-represented in the profession even if I don't have a spot to check on the AADSAS app.

And of course it's morally wrong to lie on your application. No one is debating that. The issue is where Arabs/Persians are on the spectrum and what they're checking on the app, because I am in fact a minority in this country, but apparently I'm white according to the dental application.

 

[beatsdre]

GPA was not my concern when I posted this. My whole point was not to cheat the system, but to ask what other Arabs/Persians were doing. In the grand scheme of things, were definitely a minority in the US. Arabs are absolutely under-represented in the profession even if I don't have a spot to check on the AADSAS app.

And of course it's morally wrong to lie on your application. No one is debating that. The issue is where Arabs/Persians are on the spectrum and what they're checking on the app, because I am in fact a minority in this country, but apparently I'm white according to the dental application.

Yup. I'm also a minority. Half White/Half Japanese. I think I can count on one hand how many other biracial asians I know. 4 people. To bad I'm not considered URM. Meh, URM works in funny ways.

 

[Maygyver]

GPA was not my concern when I posted this. My whole point was not to cheat the system, but to ask what other Arabs/Persians were doing. In the grand scheme of things, were definitely a minority in the US. Arabs are absolutely under-represented in the profession even if I don't have a spot to check on the AADSAS app.

And of course it's morally wrong to lie on your application. No one is debating that. The issue is where Arabs/Persians are on the spectrum and what they're checking on the app, because I am in fact a minority in this country, but apparently I'm white according to the dental application.

Go back and read this thread. Note the exact definition of the races as AADSAS defines them. Now, match up what you are with the races. Look at that! You match the white description!

Yes, it is morally wrong to lie, and you would be lying if you put down anything other than white after we have shown you evidence of what each race persists of by the standards of AADSAS. Stop grabbing for straws and focus on actually doing something to make you stand out rather than wasting your time wondering what race you are for the purposes of the application.

 

[dentalWorks]

GPA was not my concern when I posted this. My whole point was not to cheat the system, but to ask what other Arabs/Persians were doing. In the grand scheme of things, were definitely a minority in the US. Arabs are absolutely under-represented in the profession even if I don't have a spot to check on the AADSAS app.

And of course it's morally wrong to lie on your application. No one is debating that. The issue is where Arabs/Persians are on the spectrum and what they're checking on the app, because I am in fact a minority in this country, but apparently I'm white according to the dental application.

There is alot of confusion here... things are being taking out of context and put into people's opinions and all of a sudden, you read this comment.

I live about 20-25 minutes from Dearborn, heard of it? Its the number 1 arab populated city in the U.S.... We arabs are a minority in the population but we are NOT UNDER-REPRESENTED. Believe me when I tell you this, I know more rich arabs / chaldeans / middle easterns here where I live than any other race I've encountered.... Im talkin brothas sittin in escalades aon twenty-fooz, believe me, they are representing alright.... Sorry I don't mean to sound silly. But when you have an arab sitting in a 1+ million mansion (obviously not in dearborn), this person is NOT URM.

I am no expert in social reform, but I always understood that this whole concept of URM was NOT created to show favoritism for the minority groups, hell, even a canadian student applying to USA dental schools is a minority, are you telling me he is URM too?

The answer is no... URM is a special group of people who are at a major disadvantage than the rest of us. Could be location they were brought up, could be the conditions of thier childhood like living in bad neighborhoods, could be kids with troubled pasts (mostly with Law), or extremely poor families. Basically, I am referring to poverty.... These kids, are truely URM, they define being an UNDER-REPRESENTED MINORITY.

Arabs are a minority group, but they are not URM. At the least, they have the same opportunities as a middle-class white boy. You can call yourself URM all you want, but if you grew up a semi middle-class environment, you are not URM.

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

I am no expert in social reform, but I always understood that this whole concept of URM was NOT created to show favoritism for the minority groups, hell, even a canadian student applying to USA dental schools is a minority, are you telling me he is URM too?

The answer is no... URM is a special group of people who are at a major disadvantage than the rest of us. Could be location they were brought up, could be the conditions of thier childhood like living in bad neighborhoods, could be kids with troubled pasts (mostly with Law), or extremely poor families. Basically, I am referring to poverty.... These kids, are truely URM, they define being an UNDER-REPRESENTED MINORITY.

Arabs are a minority group, but they are not URM. At the least, they have the same opportunities as a middle-class white boy. You can call yourself URM all you want, but if you grew up a semi middle-class environment, you are not URM.

DentalWorks, I strongly disagree with you. Underrepresented minority doesn't mean you grew up poor. How would the dental/health care community benefit from turning a bunch of poor kids into dentists and doctors? Healthcare isn't some justice system where underprivileged kids get a chance at escaping the hood and poverty. That's what minority scholarships are for.

Once you're in college, you're old enough to make your own choices in life and leave your surroundings. You're responsible for yourself. There shouldn't be anymore hand me outs to help people escape from poverty because you've been in college 4 years now. Hell, half of us college kids are already poor and have tons of debt.

URM means giving preferences to minorities who are not typically represented in the healthcare field. It's to increase the number of african american, hispanic, and native american health professionals because there are not enough of them in healthcare compared to the general population. Have you ever seen a Hispanic dentist? I've been all over Texas and have probably seen maybe 2-3 out of the hundreds of Asian/White/Indian dentists. Considering that Hispanics represent a HUGE population here, they need to increase the number of Hispanic dentists to reach out to the community. The same goes with African-American and Native Americans. They need more Native Americans to go back to their reservations and help their people because there is a severe lack of representation from them.

Before this, I thought most people knew what URM was about. But here's to more confusion....

 

[dentalWorks]

DentalWorks, I strongly disagree with you. Underrepresented minority doesn't mean you grew up poor. How would the dental/health care community benefit from turning a bunch of poor kids into dentists and doctors? Healthcare isn't some justice system where underprivileged kids get a chance at escaping the hood and poverty. That's what minority scholarships are for.

Well, your not the one who makes that call. If you ever become an elected officla, perhaps you can change a thing or two... but for the time being, there are a select few who do get into healthcare system that way... don't believe me? why are mehary's and howard's GPA and DAT averages so much lower than the rest of the nation's dental schools? (same applied to their medical school)

Once you're in college, you're old enough to make your own choices in life and leave your surroundings. You're responsible for yourself. There shouldn't be anymore hand me outs to help people escape from poverty because you've been in college 4 years now. Hell, half of us college kids are already poor and have tons of debt.

URM means giving preferences to minorities who are not typically represented in the healthcare field. It's to increase the number of african american, hispanic, and native american health professionals because there are not enough of them in healthcare compared to the general population. Have you ever seen a Hispanic dentist? I've been all over Texas and have probably seen maybe 2-3 out of the hundreds of Asian/White/Indian dentists. Considering that Hispanics represent a HUGE population here, they need to increase the number of Hispanic dentists to reach out to the community. The same goes with African-American and Native Americans. They need more Native Americans to go back to their reservations and help their people because there is a severe lack of representation from them.

Before this, I thought most people knew what URM was about. But here's to more confusion....

not any black / hispanic / or native american is URM. There are alot of wealthy people who are from that group, living as upper-class.... your telling me if they indicate they are URM... they REALLY are going to get the same consideration as the kid from the projects who had a troubled past but decided to pull his life together and apply to professional schools?

URM for consideration is not cut-dry for race only.... its based on what kinda circumstances you lived in / grew up.

 

[321931]

not any black / hispanic / or native american is URM. There are alot of wealthy people who are from that group, living as upper-class.... your telling me if they indicate they are URM... they REALLY are going to get the same consideration as the kid from the projects who had a troubled past but decided to pull his life together and apply to professional schools?

I'm all for URM/AA etc, but there are definitely flaws within the system. What I italicized above is one of the largest glaring flaws. Yes, they really do get the same kind of consideration. But hey thats life, and nothings gonna change.

None-the-less the system does work, and I continue to support it. Even with URM advantage, there are still not many URM's in the field of Dentistry. Just look at the statistics of incoming/graduating classes of URMs. It's barely anything sadly.

 

[dentalWorks]

I'm all for URM/AA etc, but there definitely flaws within the system. What I italicized above is one of the largest glaring flaws. Yes, they really do get the same kind of consideration. But hey thats life, and nothings gonna change.

I don't believe they get the same consideration

if that was REALLY true... whats up with mehary's and howard's low averages (compared to other schools)?

 

[321931]

I don't believe they get the same consideration

if that was REALLY true... whats up with mehary's and howard's low averages (compared to other schools)?

Hmm, maybe, I dunno. You have a point. It's all a mystery to me now

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

Well, your not the one who makes that call. If you ever become an elected officla, perhaps you can change a thing or two... but for the time being, there are a select few who do get into healthcare system that way... don't believe me? why are mehary's and howard's GPA and DAT averages so much lower than the rest of the nation's dental schools? (same applied to their medical school)



not any black / hispanic / or native american is URM. There are alot of wealthy people who are from that group, living as upper-class.... your telling me if they indicate they are URM... they REALLY are going to get the same consideration as the kid from the projects who had a troubled past but decided to pull his life together and apply to professional schools?

URM for consideration is not cut-dry for race only.... its based on what
kinda circumstances you lived in / grew up.

Dentalworks, do you have statistics on the family incomes of all the kids at Mehary and Howard? I promise you they don't all come from low income families or the streets of New York.

Yes. I am saying that any black/hispanic/native american person is more or less URM and is considered as one. Have you seen any URM on here with average stats not get in anywhere? Your family income has little/no bearing on your application.

Think of it this way, anyone can make up a story about growing up poor/family adversity and struggling. There is absolutely no way you can verify its true or not. Heck, I'm sure almost every minority that applies writes about that and adcoms are probably sick and tired of everyone thinking they grew up in adversity. I can write that in my personal statement and application right now that I grew up on the streets of Dallas and had to fend off drugs dealers stealing my lunch money. Does that make me a better dental candidate? Nope. Is there any way to even verify my story? Nope.

They look at race for URM purposes sir. I'm sorry it's not ideal in this PC world, but that's just the way it is.

 

[dentalWorks]

Dentalworks, do you have statistics on the family incomes of all the kids at Mehary and Howard? I promise you they don't all come from low income families or the streets of New York.

Yes. I am saying that any black/hispanic/native american person is more or less URM and is considered as one. Have you seen any URM on here with average stats not get in anywhere? Your family income has little/no bearing on your application.

Think of it this way, anyone can make up a story about growing up poor/family adversity and struggling. There is absolutely no way you can verify its true or not. Heck, I'm sure almost every minority that applies writes about that and adcoms are probably sick and tired of everyone thinking they grew up in adversity. I can write that in my personal statement and application right now that I grew up on the streets of Dallas and had to fend off drugs dealers stealing my lunch money. Does that make me a better dental candidate? Nope. Is there any way to even verify my story? Nope.

They look at race for URM purposes sir. I'm sorry it's not ideal in this PC world, but that's just the way it is.

Okay... you are confusing Affirmative Action with URM. The 2 might sound the same, they are not.

I dunno if you've applied to dental schools yet, but there is a section on AADSAS called "Disadvantaged Status".... Let me copy/paste the directions for this (and I'll highlight some key points in blue)

Disadvantaged Status

Completing this section is optional. Many dental schools appreciate the fact that some applicants have overcome obstacles on the path to their goals. You are welcome to provide any information and describe any background experiences that may have put you at an educational, social, or economic disadvantage as you prepare to apply to dental schools.

Many dental schools seek to identify applicants who come from disadvantaged backgrounds. If you identify yourself as disadvantaged, answer the questions in this section.
Do you wish to be considered a disadvantaged applicant by any of your designated dental schools that may consider such factors (social, economic, or educational)? (Yes/No)
If "Yes," please answer the following questions:

Provide any additional information about your background that can help clarify your disadvantaged student status. Enter an explanation.
Please limit your answer in this field to 4,500 characters.
Childhood Residence
In what area did you spend the majority of your life from birth to age eighteen?
Select from the pulldown menu.
State/Province
Select state or province from pull down menu.
County
Enter county in this field.
City
Enter city in this field.
Country
Select the country from the pulldown menu.
Description
Provide a brief description of your childhood residence. Please limit your answer to 250 characters.
U.S. Specific Information
Do you believe that this area was medically/dentally underserved?
Select from pulldown menu.
Have you or members of your immediate family ever used federal or state assistance programs?
Select from pulldown menu.
What was the income level of your family during the majority of your life from birth to age eighteen?
Select from pulldown menu.
Did you have paid employment prior to age eighteen?Select from pulldown menu.
Were you able to contribute to the overall family income (as opposed to working primarily for your own discretionary spending money)?
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How many people lived in your primary household during the majority of your life from birth to age eighteen?
Enter number in this field.
Education Funding Sources
How have you paid or did you pay for your post-secondary education? For each of the applicable options, indicate the average percentage contribution toward your post-secondary education.
Enter average percentage contributions in these fields (e.g., 35.5% for academic scholarship). The percentages entered should total 100%.
Did you graduate from a high school from which a low percentage of seniors graduated, or a low percentage of students went to college?
Select from pulldown menu.
Did the high school you attended have many students eligible for free or reduced price lunches?
Select from pulldown menu.

Now I'd like you to pay attention to the type of questions this is trying to ask. They are all financial questions, the types of questions that could indicate poverty (or close to it)..... Here is the point I am driving home: Where is the race question here? In none of those questions are they asking about hair color, eye color, skin color, ethinic background.... Heck, you can be any group (white, black, blue, yellow, arab, etc), if you can answer some of those questions with an indication that you've had a rough childhood, you are URM.

I have no statistical evidence of mehary's + howard's student's financial backgrounds... but I strongly believe those 2 schools pay very close attention to this disadvantaged-background section. Its the only logical explanation I can think of as to why their averaged stats are so much lower than the rest of the nation

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

Okay... you are confusing Affirmative Action with URM. The 2 might sound the same, they are not.

I dunno if you've applied to dental schools yet, but there is a section on AADSAS called "Disadvantaged Status".... Let me copy/paste the directions for this (and I'll highlight some key points in blue)

Now I'd like you to pay attention to the type of questions this is trying to ask. They are all financial questions, the types of questions that could indicate poverty (or close to it)..... Here is the point I am driving home: Where is the race question here? In none of those questions are they asking about hair color, eye color, skin color, ethinic background.... Heck, you can be any group (white, black, blue, yellow, arab, etc), if you can answer some of those questions with an indication that you've had a rough childhood, you are URM.

I have no statistical evidence of mehary's + howard's student's financial backgrounds... but I strongly believe those 2 schools pay very close attention to this disadvantaged-background section. Its the only logical explanation I can think of as to why their averaged stats are so much lower than the rest of the nation

DentalWorks, I completely respect you and your opinion. But you're not going to convince me that its not 90% race based. I'm not confusing affirmative action with underrepresented minorities (URM). I know exactly what each one is.

I've seen AADSAS page you're referring to because I've already applied this last cycle. I'm not saying that poverty/socioeconomic level doesn't play a role at all. I'm saying the majority of URM status is determined through race, whether implied or not. There's a question on the AADSAS page that asks for your ethnicity. I believe it was an optional question, but the majority of applicants fill it out. And then they ask for your picture, and your last name. Obviously, you're not going to be African American or Hispanic with a name like John Chang. That is generally enough information to figure out someone's race without specifically asking for it. I guarantee you that someone who is AA, hispanic, Native American has a definite huge edge over someone who is not regardless of their income level.


Here's a good blog entry about it:

http://www.acri.org/blog/2009/08/12/racial-preferences-and-medical-school/

 

[tehassan]

Go back and read this thread. Note the exact definition of the races as AADSAS defines them. Now, match up what you are with the races. Look at that! You match the white description!

Yes, it is morally wrong to lie, and you would be lying if you put down anything other than white after we have shown you evidence of what each race persists of by the standards of AADSAS. Stop grabbing for straws and focus on actually doing something to make you stand out rather than wasting your time wondering what race you are for the purposes of the application.

Who are you to tell me what my race is? How do you know my family or heritage is not from an indigenous black group in Africa? You certainly have no context of what Egyptians look like, because our skin tone goes anything from blonde hair blue eyed, to black skinned and dark brown eyed.

You have no idea what my GPA is, or other stats, or anything about me, and you are assuming I am "grabbing for straws" because I asked a few questions? My ORIGINAL question had to do with what you put down versus what they see when you're interviewed. This had nothing to do with loopholes, or cutting a corner, or even a racially related question. Next topic please...!

 

[Maygyver]

Who are you to tell me what my race is? How do you know my family or heritage is not from an indigenous black group in Africa? You certainly have no context of what Egyptians look like, because our skin tone goes anything from blonde hair blue eyed, to black skinned and dark brown eyed.

You have no idea what my GPA is, or other stats, or anything about me, and you are assuming I am "grabbing for straws" because I asked a few questions? My ORIGINAL question had to do with what you put down versus what they see when you're interviewed. This had nothing to do with loopholes, or cutting a corner, or even a racially related question. Next topic please...!

This is what you turned it into. I am not telling you what race you are, I am telling you what race you put down for AADSAS. How does that not make sense?thumbdownthumbdownthumbdown

Also, to DW: I think you're right about people with extra hardships getting consideration, but I am also pretty sure that schools look at the race as a way to get a quick overview of diversity.

 

[dentalWorks]

DentalWorks, I completely respect you and your opinion. But you're not going to convince me that its not 90% race based. I'm not confusing affirmative action with underrepresented minorities (URM). I know exactly what each one is.

I've seen AADSAS page you're referring to because I've already applied this last cycle. I'm not saying that poverty/socioeconomic level doesn't play a role at all. I'm saying the majority of URM status is determined through race, whether implied or not. There's a question on the AADSAS page that asks for your ethnicity. I believe it was an optional question, but the majority of applicants fill it out. And then they ask for your picture, and your last name. Obviously, you're not going to be African American or Hispanic with a name like John Chang. That is generally enough information to figure out someone's race without specifically asking for it. I guarantee you that someone who is AA, hispanic, Native American has a definite huge edge over someone who is not regardless of their income level.


Here's a good blog entry about it:

http://www.acri.org/blog/2009/08/12/racial-preferences-and-medical-school/

So if any African American is URM... what about the other African American with a real economic disadvantage? What is he, a super URM? This is an illogical way of looking at Race vs Race+socioeconomic status.

I've seen that blog before, and it goes back to what I am saying all along... why does it give the black applicant a 100% chance to get in without supplying any information about their socioeconomic status? Its a one-sided blog, it shows which minority gets accepted (much higher chance of it) but doesn't provide evidence that their socioeconomic status is the same as the white/asian applicant with only 40% chance. If the blog also showed evidence that the socioeconomic status of the black applicant is the same (or similar) to the white/asian, then Im with you 100%... it would be based almost entirely on Race.... In that case, you might as well take the "disadvantaged" section out of the application.... cause all they want to know is: are you black (or another minor) or not?

I am not trying to push my opinion to convince anyone... I am simply showing facts. And no one can dispute them. If you are ANY race with a serious disadvantage ~ meaning you filled out the disadvantage section appropriately.... then you truely are a URM applicant and you will be given special considerations even if your status are below the national average.... this is the most logical I can be.

 

[Maygyver]

So if any African American is URM... what about the other African American with a real economic disadvantage? What is he, a super URM? This is an illogical way of looking at Race vs Race+socioeconomic status.

I've seen that blog before, and it goes back to what I am saying all along... why does it give the black applicant a 100% chance to get in without supplying any information about their socioeconomic status? Its a one-sided blog, it shows which minority gets accepted (much higher chance of it) but doesn't provide evidence that their socioeconomic status is the same as the white/asian applicant with only 40% chance. If the blog also showed evidence that the socioeconomic status of the black applicant is the same (or similar) to the white/asian, then Im with you 100%... it would be based almost entirely on Race.... In that case, you might as well take the "disadvantaged" section out of the application.... cause all they want to know is: are you black (or another minor) or not?

I am not trying to push my opinion to convince anyone... I am simply showing facts. And no one can dispute them. If you are ANY race with a serious disadvantage ~ meaning you filled out the disadvantage section appropriately.... then you truely are a URM applicant and you will be given special considerations even if your status are below the national average.... this is the most logical I can be.

I think you are confusing URM with disadvantaged. African American by itself is a URM. The disadvantaged statement is open to a member of ANY race who has had a rough upbringing: parents lifestyle, poor, etc.

However, not all folks who count as disadvantaged are URMs. I think you just got a little confused on the terminology.

 

[dentalWorks]

I think you are confusing URM with disadvantaged. African American by itself is a URM. The disadvantaged statement is open to a member of ANY race who has had a rough upbringing: parents lifestyle, poor, etc.

However, not all folks who count as disadvantaged are URMs. I think you just got a little confused on the terminology.

if thats the case... what about the arabs? What about the Persians? what about the non-US born indians? the asians? These are all minorities... AADSAS told me I am "white" even though I was born in Iraq.

My point is, when dental school admission is involved, your race alone isn't enough indicator of URM.... If you go with this logic, then basically....
Blacks are a minority in our population
There for, they are undeserved minority, lets give them an automatic advantage.

If thats the case, there are other minority groups in our population (who are also U.S citizens) who should also be considered URM (such as arabs).... but we know thats not true because arabs/middle easterners are "white"

 

[Maygyver]

if thats the case... what about the arabs? What about the Persians? what about the non-US born indians? the asians? These are all minorities... AADSAS told me I am "white" even though I was born in Iraq.

No. URM is a term for African Americans, Native Americans and Hispanic Americans (I would assume south of the border hispanics, not europeans).

As someone said in a different thread, or maybe this one, the term is used because in general, these are the races which are under-represented in the healthcare population. Hopefully that clears it up.

Don't think, however, that schools will just completely neglect the fact that you have a different background. I think most schools look for a diverse group of individuals, and your ethnicity and experiences can be shown in your personal statement or activities.

 

[dentalWorks]

No. URM is a term for African Americans, Native Americans and Hispanic Americans (I would assume south of the border hispanics, not europeans).

As someone said in a different thread, or maybe this one, the term is used because in general, these are the races which are under-represented in the healthcare population. Hopefully that clears it up.

Don't think, however, that schools will just completely neglect the fact that you have a different background. I think most schools look for a diverse group of individuals, and your ethnicity and experiences can be shown in your personal statement or activities.

PERFECT!! My question now is... what circumstances lead the powers-to-be to identify these special groups are URMs?

-Is it that many of them live in poverty? (socioeconomic status)
-Is it that many of them live in undeserved (healthcare wise) areas? (socioeconomic status)
-Is it possible, some of these groups had a less-than-adequate public schoolings and that lead their youth to truly be UNDER-SERVED in our higher educational system? (socioeconomic status)

This is the true meaning of a URM applicant.... Its not just your race, even thought its easy to right away assume that any one who fits the "Black / Hispanic / or native Indian" race is URM right away.... There are more things that goes into this than just pure race.... and I am fairly certain, many schools look at these factors further when considering if a "URM" will be accepted.

 

[Maygyver]

PERFECT!! My question now is... what circumstances lead the powers-to-be to identify these special groups are URMs?

-Is it that many of them live in poverty? (socioeconomic status)
-Is it that many of them live in undeserved (healthcare wise) areas? (socioeconomic status)
-Is it possible, some of these groups had a less-than-adequate public schoolings and that lead their youth to truly be UNDER-SERVED in our higher educational system? (socioeconomic status)

This is the true meaning of a URM applicant.... Its not just your race, even thought its easy to right away assume that any one who fits the "Black / Hispanic / or native Indian" race is URM right away.... There are more things that goes into this than just pure race.... and I am fairly certain, many schools look at these factors further when considering if a "URM" will be accepted.

I completely agree. I think it's a shame that someone should be given a leg up merely based on the color of their skin, but it's the way the system is. It would make much more sense to look at socioeconomic status in my opinion. If the goal is to get URM's to give back to their community, their methodology is horrible: if they pick an African American who grew up in Malibu, he/she is probably not going to go practice in a poor neighborhood, just because they are African American.

 

[tehassan]

PERFECT!! My question now is... what circumstances lead the powers-to-be to identify these special groups are URMs?

-Is it that many of them live in poverty? (socioeconomic status)
-Is it that many of them live in undeserved (healthcare wise) areas? (socioeconomic status)
-Is it possible, some of these groups had a less-than-adequate public schoolings and that lead their youth to truly be UNDER-SERVED in our higher educational system? (socioeconomic status)

This is the true meaning of a URM applicant.... Its not just your race, even thought its easy to right away assume that any one who fits the "Black / Hispanic / or native Indian" race is URM right away.... There are more things that goes into this than just pure race.... and I am fairly certain, many schools look at these factors further when considering if a "URM" will be accepted.

I agree with you as well; I think this is why I believe many Arabs/Middle Easterners/Persians will put Asian-American or African-American based on skin color versus socio-economic status or whether they are considered a minority in the US.

 

[Maygyver]

I agree with you as well; I think this is why I believe many Arabs/Middle Easterners/Persians will put Asian-American or African-American based on skin color versus socio-economic status or whether they are considered a minority in the US.

But they shouldn't. That is lying. For this question you are Caucasian. Later in the application you will have the opportunity to plead your case for being disadvantaged, however, you are not a URM.

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

I completely refrained from posting in this thread the last few days because I thought it would just die. But I guess not.

Everyone has their own opinions. Obviously, no one's going to convince anyone else otherwise on here because we're all super stubborn people. This is becoming internet arguing at its worst.

 

[Maygyver]

I completely refrained from posting in this thread the last few days because I thought it would just die. But I guess not.

Everyone has their own opinions. Obviously, no one's going to convince anyone else otherwise on here because we're all super stubborn people. This is becoming internet arguing at its worst.

Haha, but the fact is that AADSAS has a strict definition of what composes the races in their mind. URM is a strict definition used for certain races. The disadvantaged statement is the equalizer which gives people who are not included in the URM category an ability to express their hardships. I don't think there's really a right and wrong when AADSAS explicitly says something.

 

[lmaozedong1]

Doesn't Iran actually mean "Aryan"?

...I think this clears it up...

 

[molar3]

guys were white.
this thread needs to be ended now.

 

[tehassan]

Thought Id actually hash this topic. So I made a decision to NOT check anything on the DAT or AADSAS app. Figured my full name gave it all away. Yes, I stated I was born in Egypt and lived there. Ill let the adcom make their own choice from here.

 

[RU1992]

Well as an Egyptian, born in Egypt with relatively dark tannish skin, on an African American scholarship to Rutgers an classified as that on my US Citizenship, I checked off African American. That's just how I always classified myself so I did the same when applying this cycle as if it was anything else.
@EgyptianDentist: 3amel eh ya habiby? Shaklohom karahook 3ashan olt enta hattat nafsak ma3a el sood hahahaha. But is that really what the AADSAS lady said on the phone in terms of skin color? If so, I'll use that and my advisors as a source if the interviewer ever questions. Thanks!

 

[steve williams]

But but...i thought there was no such thing as race............................

 

[csudental]

middle eastern here.... I put down white cause I didn't fit any of the other categories.

and tehassan ~ you put down "white" my friend... read the last line from the instructions bellow



Here are the AADSAS instructions for the race card:



Ethnicity and Race
Many schools want to know more about your background. Providing information about your ethnicity and race requires answering a two-part question: First, you must indicate if you consider yourself to be of Hispanic origin. Second, you may select the racial classification(s) that you use to describe yourself. You can select one or more racial classifications. Within some categories of race, you are also asked to specify your ethnicity (e.g., Asian Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, etc.). Select any classifications that you use to identify yourself.

Consider these definitions when selecting your ethnicity and race.

• Hispanic or Latino
  A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race
• American Indian or Alaska Native
  A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) who maintains cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community attachment
• Asian
  A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian Subcontinent, including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam
• Black or African American
  A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa
• Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
  A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands
• White
  A Person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa

I'm half Egyptian and half Lebanon
what should be my ethnicity Black, white, Asian(as Lebanon in Asia ?)

 

[Bottle]

I'm half Egyptian and half Lebanon
what should be my ethnicity Black, white, Asian(as Lebanon in Asia ?)

I read the first page of this thread, and I think you should put white. If you go to page 1, dentalworks provided a copy of AADSAS card that tells you how to identify yourself.
Under White, they said anyone who originated from Europe, Middle East (including east Asia, aka: Syria, lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq ..), and North Africa (Eqypt, Morocco ..etc)
Sorry mate, but you are white.
If you really want to be special, you can fill out the disadvantaged form provided above in page 2.

 

[Glimmer1991]

I'm half Egyptian and half Lebanon
what should be my ethnicity Black, white, Asian(as Lebanon in Asia ?)

Like... uh... wouldn't that make you half Lebanese?

 

[habiba]

Hey guys i have an interesting question as i was born in Egypt and raised there, when i apply should i say that i'm African american as Egypt in Africa and i joined the black organization in my high school and planning also to join it my undergraduate college. But if you saw me for the first time i look white or Latina and if i say African american on my application the admission office will expect to see a black candidate ?!

 

[Bottle]

Hey guys i have an interesting question as i was born in Egypt and raised there, when i apply should i say that i'm African american as Egypt in Africa and i joined the black organization in my high school and planning also to join it my undergraduate college. But if you saw me for the first time i look white or Latina and if i say African american on my application the admission office will expect to see a black candidate ?!

didn't you read the thread? you can gamble and say that your AA, but it is risky game and schools might not like it when they see you in person. You are considered white to AADSAS because you are from North Africa.

 

[dienepredent]

This is the dumbest thread I have ever read. I am Middle Eastern too. You're all white now get off your high horses and put what AADSAS SPECIFICALLY tells you to as a Middle Eastern. Being this dishonest now just to try and cheat and get ahead is going to translate badly in how you handle future situations in life. Have some freaking confidence in yourselves. Sankes. Rant over.

 

[csudental]

so let's speak seriously in a country like USA if you don't find any AA person in any organization,college,job a lot of people will consider it discrimination of race.
That's why all the dental schools need at least have more than 2 AA/black people in the class. i Suggest to connect directly the AASDAS or the dental schools you will apply to, and ask them if i choose AA and at the interview you saw me a white guy, you will believe me or i will be rejected