Are there any adcoms on here who disagree with race-based affirmative action?

[Aerus]

It's always amusing for people to tell me what I have and have not had to experience as a black male. If you think no one cares about my race because I'm middle class, guess again. When I'm walking down the street, no one knows if my dad is a doctor or if I even know my dad at all. All they know is, I'm black. In fact, it's typically the first thing anyone learns about me because it's the easiest thing for them to recognize. I cannot stop them from knowing that I am black. I am never not black. I have always been black. I can never change being black.

Why should a school want me? Because growing up black means growing up in the ghetto? Of course not. It's because growing up black means I've seen things most of your class won't see, I've been treated in ways that most of your class can't be treated, I've had to deal with things that most of your class have never dealt with, and because all of this gives me a perspective most in your class will not have. I'm part of the spice that makes your class interesting. Does that make me special? Sort of. There are all kinds of students who make the class interesting. Students who have lived in multiple countries, who speak multiple languages, who have previously worked incredible jobs, who have endured incredible hardship, who have experienced incredible life events. This is also the spice that makes my class interesting.

At the end of the day, schools have a choice. They can accept the highest GPA/MCAT applicants they can get their hands on. Or they can choose applicants who not only meet their academic requirements, but also enrich the pool of experiences in the class and become the types of colleagues they could see themselves working with. My race is but one of the things that identifies me, and the way in which all of my attributes and experiences meld together determines how interested a school will be in me. We are entitled to nothing.

Thank you for this. One of the best responses to a URM thread I've seen.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[BlueCircle]

I'll be blunt. With your background, status and entitlement, people have a very strong argument to get rid of affirmative action because it was not meant to help you. It was meant to help people that "came from the ghetto". It is slightly distressing that somehow you think that people are arguing whether or not affirmative action "is real".

Except the main purpose of "affirmative action" in medical schools is to help deal with the issue of healthcare disparities, NOT to right the wrongs of racism and inequalies that URMs may face. You and everyone in this thread is missing the point of URM recruting. Its for the benefit of the *patient* not the applicant.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

Except the main purpose of "affirmative action" in medical schools is to help deal with the issue of healthcare disparities, NOT to right the wrongs of racism and inequalies that URMs may face. You and everyone in this thread is missing the point of URM recruting. Its for the benefit of the *patient* not the applicant.

I tried to explain the best I could earlier. the info is there if people care to read it. that's all we can do lol

 

[Aloft085]

It is kind of funny how anyone who is uncertain about their chances/fails to get a seat suddenly blames the 11% for taking their seat.

If you're at the lower end of the applicant spectrum, which you would have to be to not get accepted, that 11% could make all the difference. It's troubling to look at admissions statistics and see that someone with your credentials has a 50% chance if white, and a 100% chance if black.

In any case, affirmative action isn't going away any time soon, unless struck down by the Supreme Court. So we might as well make our peace with it. Hopefully our country eventually moves to trying to ensure that poorer people receive a quality education, rather than trying (and failing) to fix disparate impact issues further down the food chain by overtly discriminating based on race.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

If you're at the lower end of the applicant spectrum, which you would have to be to not get accepted, that 11% could make all the difference. It's troubling to look at admissions statistics and see that someone with your credentials has a 50% chance if white, and a 100% chance if black.

In any case, affirmative action isn't going away any time soon, unless struck down by the Supreme Court. So we might as well make our peace with it. Hopefully our country eventually moves to trying to ensure that poorer people receive a quality education, rather than trying (and failing) to fix disparate impact issues further down the food chain by overtly discriminating based on race.

Please see above posts about missing the point of affirmative action in medical school admissions.

 

[pre med 2014]

Does anyone have that meme with John Goodman I think it was rushing back to his seat at the movie theatre with a ridiculous amount of popcorn and soft drink? It's hilarious and perfect for this thread but I haven't been able to find it anywhere

 

[Aloft085]

Please see above posts about missing the point of affirmative action in medical school admissions.

I'm not missing the point of affirmative action at all. I get it. I just don't like it. No one should like it. The objective should be to move away from the concept of discriminating based on race. It just perpetuates the racial animosity and racial distinctions that continue to divide our society. Go to somewhere like the UK and no one gives a **** that you're black. That's what we should strive for here. Instead we continue to reinforce racial division year after year, 150 years after the end of slavery. That's about the same amount of time it took us to go from muskets to airplanes. At this rate, we'll perhaps have a colorblind society after we've colonized Venus.

 

[ASD2019]

If you're at the lower end of the applicant spectrum, which you would have to be to not get accepted, that 11% could make all the difference. It's troubling to look at admissions statistics and see that someone with your credentials has a 50% chance if white, and a 100% chance if black.

In any case, affirmative action isn't going away any time soon, unless struck down by the Supreme Court. So we might as well make our peace with it. Hopefully our country eventually moves to trying to ensure that poorer people receive a quality education, rather than trying (and failing) to fix disparate impact issues further down the food chain by overtly discriminating based on race.

See your post is a prime example of some of the things minorities have to face that most others don't realize. You are automatically assuming (probably unconsciously) that all/most of the URMs that get in (the 11%) are indeed inferior to you as an applicant.

 

[ASD2019]

I'm not missing the point of affirmative action at all. I get it. I just don't like it. No one should like it. The objective should be to move away from the concept of discriminating based on race. It just perpetuates the racial animosity and racial distinctions that continue to divide our society. Go to somewhere like the UK and no one gives a **** that you're black. That's what we should strive for here. Instead we continue to reinforce racial division year after year, 150 years after the end of slavery. That's about the same amount of time it took us to go from muskets to airplanes. At this rate, we'll perhaps have a colorblind society after we've colonized Venus.

Have you read any parts of this thread? Or did you just feel compelled to tell us the "truth"?

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

andddddd on that note, I'm out haha

 

[Aloft085]

See your post is a prime example of some of the things minorities have to face that most others don't realize. You are automatically assuming (probably unconsciously) that all/most of the URMs that get in (the 11%) are indeed inferior to you as an applicant.

Statistically they do on average have lower credentials. This distinction isn't something that I'm creating. When you set certain minorities apart as different from the rest of us, that perceived difference is going to have both positive and negative components. It's a cycle; differential treatment leads to 'positive' discrimination, which leads to differential treatment, which leads to positive discrimination, which leads to differential treatment, and so on ad infinitum.

When you're constantly demanding that people think based on race, in order to grant preferences to your desired groups, they're going to make racial distinctions in more negative ways as well. It's only natural. Reinforcing divisions between people is never a good thing.

 

[Aloft085]

Have you read any parts of this thread? Or did you just feel compelled to tell us the "truth"?

I read the whole thread. I provided my opinion on the subject. Do you have something to actually say on the issue? Otherwise you're just wasting space and everyone's time, not to mention a large quantity of oxygen.

 

[pre med 2014]

I'm not missing the point of affirmative action at all. I get it. I just don't like it. No one should like it. The objective should be to move away from the concept of discriminating based on race. It just perpetuates the racial animosity and racial distinctions that continue to divide our society. Go to somewhere like the UK and no one gives a **** that you're black. That's what we should strive for here. Instead we continue to reinforce racial division year after year, 150 years after the end of slavery. That's about the same amount of time it took us to go from muskets to airplanes. At this rate, we'll perhaps have a colorblind society after we've colonized Venus.

You're not a stupid person but you've obviously never been screwed over based on something outside your control (such as skin color or ethnicity). Just be careful about getting your panties wrapped up over aa because people will associate you for a fool and have less respect for you or not listen to anything you have to say. Again I don't think you're stupid, we all have foolish opinions sometimes. It's just when you're trying to prove your point you are actually proving yourself to be a fool.

Like when you use the 150 years argument you're simply proving to others you don't understand the concept of generational wealth transfer rather than convincing anybody to change their mind on aa.

If you start with more assets and money from above generations you do less work for more money. However, if 150 years ago each generation lost what they worked for or not have anything at all because of slavery then each subsequent generation starts from square one and harder to achieve success. Think if you spend your whole life working on your land or starting a business and pass it down to your son or daughter? That is like 40-50 years or work you did to get it to that place now the next generation starts with that as a base.

 

[Mr Interesting]

The funniest part about all of this is white women are the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action. I've never heard anyone complain about that though....

 

[Aloft085]

You're not a stupid person but you've obviously never been screwed over based on something outside your control (such as skin color or ethnicity).

HAHA. Wrong. Try again, kid.

I have no problem watching this thread get locked, since p*ssy liberal panty-wastes likes yourself can't seem to comprehend a difference of opinion.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

HAHA. Wrong. Try again, kid.

I have no problem watching this thread get locked, since p*ssy liberal panty-wastes likes yourself can't seem to comprehend a difference of opinion.

Seriously? Was that even necessary?

 

[ASD2019]

I read the whole thread. I provided my opinion on the subject. Do you have something to actually say on the issue? Otherwise you're just wasting space and everyone's time, not to mention a large quantity of oxygen.

lol then I will leave it for Goro to comment on your reading comprehension!

 

[pre med 2014]

HAHA. Wrong. Try again, kid.

I have no problem watching this thread get locked, since p*ssy liberal panty-wastes likes yourself can't seem to comprehend a difference of opinion.

Aww I'm gonna go curl up in the corner and cry now wa wa

 

[Flashfan]

It is obvious that you don't have an answer for Raiderette, Blue Circle or DoctorLacrosse. Even LizzyM and Goro have mentioned time after time that the preference for URMs is to benefit the patient population. Cry all you want, but it is about helping the patient, not the student.

 

[Aloft085]

Seriously? Was that even necessary?

Yes. I'm not going to sit around and be called a fool by some 24-year-old know nothing little ****. They can ban me for all I care, doesn't matter. You people need to either be accepting of other views, or don't comment. It's shocking how viciously wannabe doctors are attacking others for perfectly logical arguments. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with your highly-controversial opinion, then don't go on the Internet.

 

[breezy124]

Page 1... *mods jump in forseeing this might get out of hand*
...page 3, It gets out of hand.

LOL

 

[BurbyPrep89]

Well that escalated quickly...

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Yes. I'm not going to sit around and be called a fool by some 24-year-old know nothing little ****. They can ban me for all I care, doesn't matter. You people need to either be accepting of other views, or don't comment. It's shocking how viciously wannabe doctors are attacking others for perfectly logical arguments. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with your highly-controversial opinion, then don't go on the Internet.

So why not act like the mature person and refrain from using unnecessary language?! "Little ****" is a schoolyard insult... Oh well...

 

[breezy124]

Yes. I'm not going to sit around and be called a fool by some 24-year-old know nothing little ****. They can ban me for all I care, doesn't matter. You people need to either be accepting of other views, or don't comment. It's shocking how viciously wannabe doctors are attacking others for perfectly logical arguments. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with your highly-controversial opinion, then don't go on the Internet.

I agree with the bolded. Although you shouldn't have used "little ****" what you said stands true.
Some people on the pre-osteo are doing the same thing to me.
They should really get out of their fantasy world and see reality.

 

[pre med 2014]

Yes. I'm not going to sit around and be called a fool by some 24-year-old know nothing little ****. They can ban me for all I care, doesn't matter. You people need to either be accepting of other views, or don't comment. It's shocking how viciously wannabe doctors are attacking others for perfectly logical arguments. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with your highly-controversial opinion, then don't go on the Internet.

Why are you letting a 24 year old know nothing get under your skin? Did I touch a soft spot for you?

 

[YogaBe@r]

Why are you letting a 24 year old know nothing get under your skin? Did I touch a soft spot for you?

Have we seriously gone there? Honestly, can we actually have a conversation on affirmative action without people resorting to name calling and then mocking people when they are offended at said name calling? Jeez, the mods really did call this on page one....

 

[miszfifi820]

The funniest part about all of this is white women are the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action. I've never heard anyone complain about that though....

how so? (not being sarcastic)

 

[mimelim]

The point that is missing is that it isn't about the students. It is as @gyngyn states, about fulfilling a need in this country. We can debate how effective it is (or ineffective for that matter), but the purpose of AA is to bring more physicians to under served areas. Given that nobody else seems to have any other solutions to this disparity, it is hard to argue with it.

For me, the sense of entitlement among many students is astounding. Just because you are a good student with good stats, doesn't mean that you 'deserve' a medical school spot over someone else. In my limited experience, it is the same students that checkbox fill to look like they give a crap about others when in reality it is all, "me me me me".

Except the main purpose of "affirmative action" in medical schools is to help deal with the issue of healthcare disparities, NOT to right the wrongs of racism and inequalies that URMs may face. You and everyone in this thread is missing the point of URM recruting. Its for the benefit of the *patient* not the applicant.

I tried to explain the best I could earlier. the info is there if people care to read it. that's all we can do lol

I know reading comprehension isn't what it used to be, but come on. Page one. How do you miss read this? I mean miscommunications on online forums is par for the course. But, saying, "You and everyone in this thread is missing the point" and then restating the point that adcoms have already said is just poor form.

 

[BigBang]

Yes. I'm not going to sit around and be called a fool by some 24-year-old know nothing little ****. They can ban me for all I care, doesn't matter. You people need to either be accepting of other views, or don't comment. It's shocking how viciously wannabe doctors are attacking others for perfectly logical arguments. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with your highly-controversial opinion, then don't go on the Internet.

You were getting a lot of hate because of what you were bringing up and the way you phrased your comments. For example, you said that slavery ended 150 years ago, insinuating AA is no longer necessary because of the abolition of slavery. But what about socio-economic and healthcare disparities such as The Tuskagee Syphilis Experiment. That happened in 1972, not too long ago. Statistically, URMs are more likely to practice medicine in underserved areas than non-URMs, so it seems AA is fulfilling its purpose. I'm not saying I know everything on this topic, but what I do know is that I will never know what URMs deal with, just like I don't know and will never know what the pain of labour of childbirth feels like.

 

[AspiringERMD]

HAHA. Wrong. Try again, kid.

I have no problem watching this thread get locked, since p*ssy liberal panty-wastes likes yourself can't seem to comprehend a difference of opinion.

Well. I rescind my prior comment that I was impressed that this thread hadn't descended into purile insult-slinging. Guess the apocalypse isn't imminent after all.

 

[Mr Interesting]

how so? (not being sarcastic)

Initially, affirmative action was implemented to give people of color opportunities that they were restricted from (high paying jobs, admission to professional schools, etc.. ). However, people always seem to forget affirmative action was expanded to included women as well, seeing how they were also barred from high paying jobs and other opportunities.

I had trouble posting the original article
http://www.timwise.org/1998/09/is-s...women-and-the-rollback-of-affirmative-action/

 

[deleted535750]

how so? (not being sarcastic)

Affirmative action as a whole was meant to help and nudge women and minorities into occupations dominated mostly by white and asian men. At first though, white women were overwhelmingly the major recipients of affirmative action. However, as can be seen by admission statistics to schools and graduation rates for each gender, affirmative action for women has, for the most part, been eliminated in academics (with the exception of deciding tenure for professors). You won't really find people mention affirmative action for women unless you enter the corporate world where being a woman does still play a major role.

Now, affirmative action for URM is still a prevalent (and heated as seen by these threads) part of academics.

 

[jl lin]

Except the main purpose of "affirmative action" in medical schools is to help deal with the issue of healthcare disparities, NOT to right the wrongs of racism and inequalies that URMs may face. You and everyone in this thread is missing the point of URM recruting. Its for the benefit of the *patient* not the applicant.

The hard truth is that it includes the following: for patients, communities, and those that are UR. We forget the minorities that have not had, and in a number of cases still do not have, the opportunities others have had. And w/o getting into any racial back and forth, it is not always appreciated by the majority of citizens how people are feared or marginalized b/c of race. It's still real people. There are people that still may be nervous about getting into an elevator with persons of certain races. Seriously. And I have also seen some of related, negative attitudes not too long ago. My friend was called all kinds of racial slurs by an idiot driver, while driving in a perfectly legal manner. I was about 150 ft or so away, and the idiot driver didn't see me; but I saw and heard him. Such an azz. I know what I heard and saw.

Also, the person that talked about the holistic factors involved in selection into school has made excellent points as well.

And consider this. . .certainly not in all cases, but in general, people relate well with those that can identify/relate with them. So it makes sense to increase UR in the hopes of increasing these people as physicians in areas where the relational factor may be better. Again, it's NOT always true for patients that need care badly enough. But yes. The ability to relate and empathize on some strong level has impact.

 

[jl lin]

The funniest part about all of this is white women are the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action. I've never heard anyone complain about that though....

Wait. What?

 

[Mr Interesting]

affirmative action for women has, for the most part, been eliminated in academics (with the exception of deciding tenure for professors).

I have heard, "We should take them, we are short African Americans right now." and "It would kill two birds with one stone to take her." (applicant being black and a woman) And yes, it is a little disheartening to hear things like AA discussed like that.

 

[jl lin]

Aloft, no offense at all. And listen, I am pretty darn conservative on a number of things; but if you think that giving people a leg up is bad form, I don't really think that you understand the problems/issues on a larger scale.

If you think racial discrimination is over and done with, again, you are not as well-informed as you think you are.

And if you don't think Af-Ams, Na-Ams, and Hisp-Ams or even Asian-Ams don't want to see their people distributed into their communities as
physicians-leaders, you are very sadly mistaken.

Now, if you want to wait until the whole nation is completely blended together by equal parts of racial DNA, as all of the above and more, well, I have to tell you. That may take a while yet.

 

[WingedOx]

Statistically they do on average have lower credentials. This distinction isn't something that I'm creating. When you set certain minorities apart as different from the rest of us, that perceived difference is going to have both positive and negative components. It's a cycle; differential treatment leads to 'positive' discrimination, which leads to differential treatment, which leads to positive discrimination, which leads to differential treatment, and so on ad infinitum.

When you're constantly demanding that people think based on race, in order to grant preferences to your desired groups, they're going to make racial distinctions in more negative ways as well. It's only natural. Reinforcing divisions between people is never a good thing.

Statistically they have lower stats, sure but this is professional school, there's more to an applicant than just his stats. As I said before, anyone with a 26 is more than capable of getting through med school and rocking step 1.

My program is finishing up residency applications this month and beyond a very arbitrary cutoff (WAY lower than the median) we don't spend a lot of time looking at test scores and numbers. We look to determine who are the people we want to work alongside us for the next 4+ years. Med school isn't much different. ADCOMS want students that are going to represent their school well and fit cohesively into their environment. You aren't going to make that distinction be by just looking at a 31 vs a 34. I can tell you what qualities make people NOT want to admit applicants and one of them is losing your **** and sounding like everyone's crazy unemployed uncle at Thanksgiving when someone points out your shoddy reasoning.

btw. I'm curious: are you or any of the other anti-AA posters against the "Rooney Rule"?

 

[fancymylotus]

Honest question bc it's been so long since I filled out an app for anything where I had to answer this...does it say African American/Black, or just African American?

(I seem to remember that I was Asian/Pacific Islander or something. I don't remember)

 

[amad01]

Aloft, no offense at all. And listen, I am pretty darn conservative on a number of things; but if you think that giving people a leg up is bad form, I don't really think that you understand the problems/issues on a larger scale.

If you think racial discrimination is over and done with, again, you are not as well-informed as you think you are.

And if you don't think Af-Ams, Na-Ams, and Hisp-Ams or even Asian-Ams don't want to see their people distributed into their communities as
physicians-leaders, you are very sadly mistaken.

Now, if you want to wait until the whole nation is completely blended together by equal parts of racial DNA, as all of the above and more, well, I have to tell you. That may take a while yet.

aloft isn't saying this. He's saying AA is positive discrimination, which is a form of racism, which keeps us in a state of division amongst race, which reinforces the many other forms of racism both positive and negative that we have learned since birth.

 

[jl lin]

aloft isn't saying this. He's saying AA is positive discrimination, which is a form of racism, which keeps us in a state of division amongst race, which reinforces the many other forms of racism both positive and negative that we have learned since birth.

Yes, I, in point of fact, very clearly understand what he is trying to say/defend. I have heard this defense before. The reality is regardless of whether he feels it is white boy/girl reverse discrimination or even exacerbating discrimination (which hasn't been proven at all), it doesn't change the potential value of what it does for both minority communities and patients therein, nor does it detract from the value of AA for those that have been historically hampered by racial discrimination--which still occurs. Part of the underlying problem here is an unwillingness to accept the dueling reality that continues to exist. Personally, I doubt that a lot of white males and females have been held back from attending MS b/c of AA.

It's not about "positive discrimination" at all. But until we collectively begin to see this, we will continue to be screwed internally. This is not at all a form of racism, and you are reading this from one of the most conservative people you might ever meet.

 

[amad01]

Yes, I, in point of fact, very clearly understand what he is trying to say/defend. I have heard this defense before. The reality is regardless of whether he feels it is white boy/girl reverse discrimination or even exacerbating discrimination (which hasn't been proven at all), it doesn't change the potential value of what it does for both minority communities and patients therein, nor does it detract from the value of AA for those that have been historically hampered by racial discrimination--which still occurs. Part of the underlying problem here is an unwillingness to accept the dueling reality that continues to exist. Personally, I doubt that a lot of white males and females have been held back from attending MS b/c of AA.

It's not about "positive discrimination" at all. But until we collectively begin to see this, we will continue to be screwed internally. This is not at all a form of racism, and you are reading this from one of the most conservative people you might ever meet.

Accepting applicants with lower stats because they are of a different race is positive discrimination, which is a form of racism.... regardless of whatever motives or reasons may be behind it.

 

[f4reignbeauty]

How would you feel if it were a non-URM applicant with the same stats, and same background? What if that applicant is accepted over the traditional 35/4.0 applicant?

Would you see that outcome as an issue? Or would you simply state that the applicant had great EC's and a great personal statement.

 

[BurbyPrep89]

Honest question bc it's been so long since I filled out an app for anything where I had to answer this...does it say African American/Black, or just African American?

(I seem to remember that I was Asian/Pacific Islander or something. I don't remember)

Just started an application for research funding and noticed that in addition to "Black/African American," they have "African," (And some specific countries in Africa are listed) and "Other," which I specifically enjoy because it really messes with people who are looking to fill a quota.

Quick question too (probably seems obvious): Are Inuit people considered Native American?

 

[jl lin]

Just started an application for research funding and noticed that in addition to "Black/African American," they have "African," (And some specific countries in Africa are listed) and "Other," which I specifically enjoy because it really messes with people who are looking to fill a quota.

Quick question too (probably seems obvious): Are Inuit people considered Native American?

Well yes but with special qualification. . .American Indian/Alaska Native (AI/AN) ancestry.

BTW, since so many Americans are of mixed race and don't even know it or care, "other" is applicable to many.

 

[jl lin]

Accepting applicants with lower stats because they are of a different race is positive discrimination, which is a form of racism.... regardless of whatever motives or reasons may be behind it.

You don't get it, and the sad thing is, I don't think I can help you--especially since you don't seem to want to get it. Yes, MSs are going crazy everywhere and are accepting brain-dead-equivalent-applicants from other races according to you and whoever else. Holy crap.

For the umpteenth time here at SDN, MSs look holistically--at the whole application--and may favor more research or community-based medicine. Giving a few points of a break off to make up for crappy school systems and predominately single-parent homes (w/ less support for kids as students) in crappy areas or to entice more people to go into community-based healthcare, how is this killing anyone? It's not like you can just throw your application into the ring simply b/c you are considered UR. I mean there has got to be something more to you regardless of race, GPA, and MCAT score. The latter two only help people get interviews. And let's get the research on how many ORM are going into poorer or more remote areas. I have actually worked (work) with physicians that were Black, Hispanic or otherwise URM and are/were indeed working in areas most ORM people wouldn't dare go. When I needed to get ahold of them, I didn't have to beg and wait a zillion years either. Know why? They know their value in those areas.

 

[miamiheatfan]

How would you feel if it were a non-URM applicant with the same stats, and same background? What if that applicant is accepted over the traditional 35/4.0 applicant?

Would you see that outcome as an issue? Or would you simply state that the applicant had great EC's and a great personal statement.

+1 Seriously!

 

[WingedOx]

How would you feel if it were a non-URM applicant with the same stats, and same background? What if that applicant is accepted over the traditional 35/4.0 applicant?

Would you see that outcome as an issue? Or would you simply state that the applicant had great EC's and a great personal statement.

If an ADCOM is rejecting the 35/4.0 in favor of the lower stat applicant, it's not because of the "lower" applicant. It's because the 35/4.0 had serious red flags.

 

[mimelim]

If an ADCOM is rejecting the 35/4.0 in favor of the lower stat applicant, it's not because of the "lower" applicant. It's because the 35/4.0 had serious red flags.

This is categorically false. There are a lot of 35/4.0 students that will make terrible physicians. You don't need to have "serious red flags" to not be right for medical school. To be blunt, you can be a very boring 35/4.0 and we see it all the time and don't want them in our classes.

 

[fancymylotus]

This is categorically false. There are a lot of 35/4.0 students that will make terrible physicians. You don't need to have "serious red flags" to not be right for medical school. To be blunt, you can be a very boring 35/4.0 and we see it all the time and don't want them in our classes.

I am not boring!!!!! ><

 

[WingedOx]

This is categorically false. There are a lot of 35/4.0 students that will make terrible physicians. You don't need to have "serious red flags" to not be right for medical school. To be blunt, you can be a very boring 35/4.0 and we see it all the time and don't want them in our classes.

I'm not sure we're disagreeing here... If you bore an ADCOM enough to not let you in. That's a serious red flag.