"Arizona Republicans File Bill to Punish Abortion Doctors with the Death Penalty"

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Is this a trick question?

I was trying to get at why someone who thinks aborting a fetus is murder would behave the way they do, but the person I was talking to is so dogmatic and rigid that I couldn’t get anywhere.

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[Lawpy]

I was trying to get at why someone who thinks aborting a fetus is murder would behave the way they do, but the person I was talking to is so dogmatic and rigid that I couldn’t get anywhere.

Why should they force everyone else to accept their view that abortion = murder? That's the question i keep raising but keep getting misread

 

[AMEHigh]

That’s great for you. I’ve literally seen pro-choice people make statements that abortion should be used like any other form of birth control, that the people protesting at planned parenthood should be murdered, etc. There are pro-life protestors assaulted by pro-choice folks. That happens more regularly than you probably are aware. There are loonies on both sides, but I get what you’re saying.

Can you share the news stories about the pro-choice people assaulting pro-life people for their views? That’s fvcked up (I’m assuming you mean unprovoked). I honestly have never seen that happen in an unprovoked manner nor have I heard anyone in my community talk about assaulting anyone. That’s a shame. Would love to read more though since you’re saying it happens regularly.

I know NAF keeps track of security threats to abortion providers, so I assume their is a pro-life group that is doing the equivalent about the security threats they’re getting. I’d be interested to read the data.

 

[Lawpy]

And yes i'm hardline against abortion restrictions because i'm tired and irritated of seeing women and doctors getting terrorized by antichoice extremist factions who are hellbent in forcing the country to accept that their view of abortion = murder is the ultimate law. At that point, i refuse to compromise with the fanatics and will double down to get rid of any and all restrictions.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Can you share the news stories about the pro-choice people assaulting pro-life people for their views? That’s fvcked up (I’m assuming you mean unprovoked). I honestly have never seen that happen in an unprovoked manner nor have I heard anyone in my community talk about assaulting anyone. That’s a shame. Would love to read more though since you’re saying it happens regularly.

I know NAF keeps track of security threats to abortion providers, so I assume their is a pro-life group that is doing the equivalent about the security threats they’re getting. I’d be interested to read the data.

I’ll link them later from my computer, but even a cursory google search will find them. Violence on either side is completely unacceptable, and even as an anti-abortion pro-choice person, I don’t think anyone who is trying to bring about change through violence is helping their cause.

edit: like my bottom line is that I understand why pro-life people are fighting so hard to change legislation, and I understand why pro-choice people are as well. But violence at all is counterproductive and shouldn’t be tolerated.

 

[Lawpy]

Hey look, Canada has the right idea all along!

Late termination of pregnancy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Lawpy]

Doctors know far more about when it's ok or not ok to perform an abortion

Let's leave it to them and not to antichoice legislators who aren't medically trained

 

[AMEHigh]

I’ll link them later from my computer, but even a cursory google search will find them. Violence on either side is completely unacceptable, and even as an anti-abortion pro-choice person, I don’t think anyone who is trying to bring about change through violence is helping their cause.

edit: like my bottom line is that I understand why pro-life people are fighting so hard to change legislation, and I understand why pro-choice people are as well. But violence at all is counterproductive and shouldn’t be tolerated.

Thanks.
Got it.
I still don’t think the 2 sides are equivalent at all, but if you have overwhelming evidence that pro-life people are getting the same amount of hate mail to their homes, yelled at, harassed, etc then I’m ready to read all about it.
I think my Google algorithm is probably different so trying to google these are the top 2 articles:

The Absurd Lie of ‘Pro-Choice Violence’

The FBI says “abortion terrorism” can be perpetrated by people on “both sides of the issue.” This framing isn’t just wrong — it’s dangerous.

www.google.com

The FBI Makes a Bizarre Claim About Pro-Choice Terrorism

The bureau revamped its homegrown-terror efforts to include “people on either side” of the abortion debate. But there’s almost no evidence of pro-choice violence.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I was trying to get at why someone who thinks aborting a fetus is murder would behave the way they do, but the person I was talking to is so dogmatic and rigid that I couldn’t get anywhere.

I'm well aware, it's why that poster has been on my ignore list for quite sometime now.

My response was a joke.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Thanks.
Got it.
I still don’t think the 2 sides are equivalent at all, but if you have overwhelming evidence that pro-life people are getting the same amount of hate mail to their homes, yelled at, harassed, etc then I’m ready to read all about it.
I think my Google algorithm is probably different so trying to google these are the top 2 articles:

The Absurd Lie of ‘Pro-Choice Violence’

The FBI says “abortion terrorism” can be perpetrated by people on “both sides of the issue.” This framing isn’t just wrong — it’s dangerous.

www.google.com

The FBI Makes a Bizarre Claim About Pro-Choice Terrorism

The bureau revamped its homegrown-terror efforts to include “people on either side” of the abortion debate. But there’s almost no evidence of pro-choice violence.

www.thedailybeast.com

No, I don’t think it’s equivalent in number. That doesn’t mean it’s okay or justifiable. It’s reprehensible no matter who is doing it.

 

[Lawpy]

I'm well aware, it's why that poster has been on my ignore list for quite sometime now.

My response was a joke.

That's good since your posts don't add anything of value to the discussion

 

[Lawpy]

No, I don’t think it’s equivalent in number. That doesn’t mean it’s okay or justifiable. It’s reprehensible no matter who is doing it.

I think everyone agrees violence is a bad approach and should be condemned

 

[Lawpy]

I was trying to get at why someone who thinks aborting a fetus is murder would behave the way they do, but the person I was talking to is so dogmatic and rigid that I couldn’t get anywhere.

Also for the record, i understood and know their stance why they think abortion = murder and why they support restrictions. Just because i refuse to compromise with them doesn't mean i don't understand their views.

 

[FutureInternist]

The venn diagram of people who want to force a woman to sacrifice her body, lifestyle, health etc in order to carry an unwanted baby to term and then be saddled with either 18 years of further cost/care (or adoption), and those who refuse to wear a mask to protect others’ life since it is their “right” to not wear one, has like an 85% overlap. 😏

 

[AMEHigh]

No, I don’t think it’s equivalent in number. That doesn’t mean it’s okay or justifiable. It’s reprehensible no matter who is doing it.

Ahh ok. The post I quoted you said "there are just as many loonies on the pro-choice side." So that's why I responded because you said there are just as many "loonies." To me that means equivalent in number, but I guess now you're taking back that statement? The loonies to me are the people who harass, intimidate, lie to people, send hate mail to homes, try to pass laws like "re-implant" ectopic pregnancies, etc. So you made it sound like there are just as many pro-choice people doing those things, which in my opinion and based on the facts that I've seen (guttmacher, NAF, etc keep data on safety concerns, restrictive laws which include lies physicians have to tell to patients, etc) is not the case. So I'm using the objective information that I'm aware of with these statements.

I'm sure there is a case here and there of a pro-choice person going to a pro-life person's work place and yelling at them, but I hope you recognize that on a daily basis there are literally thousands of pro-life "loonies" in front of medical establishments yelling and harassing patients and health care workers. I know over a dozen of my colleagues and myself got hate mail just within the past month. They set up buildings next to reproductive health clinics and then confuse patients to go to their crisis pregnancy centers instead and literally lie to patients about numerous things. I just don't see how the equivalent is true on the pro-choice side. But I'll await the articles you have since you said these things happen more regularly than I know. I am 100% open to informing myself about things I don't know about and I'd certainly want to bring these issues up amongst colleagues if there are people on "our side" doing these things regularly, so that we could work to stop it.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Ahh ok. The post I quoted you said "there are just as many loonies on the pro-choice side." So that's why I responded because you said there are just as many "loonies." To me that means equivalent in number, but I guess now you're taking back that statement? The loonies to me are the people who harass, intimidate, lie to people, send hate mail to homes, try to pass laws like "re-implant" ectopic pregnancies, etc. So you made it sound like there are just as many pro-choice people doing those things, which in my opinion and based on the facts that I've seen (guttmacher, NAF, etc keep data on safety concerns, restrictive laws which include lies physicians have to tell to patients, etc) is not the case. So I'm using the objective information that I'm aware of with these statements.

I'm sure there is a case here and there of a pro-choice person going to a pro-life person's work place and yelling at them, but I hope you recognize that on a daily basis there are literally thousands of pro-life "loonies" in front of medical establishments yelling and harassing patients and health care workers. I know over a dozen of my colleagues and myself got hate mail just within the past month. They set up buildings next to reproductive health clinics and then confuse patients to go to their crisis pregnancy centers instead and literally lie to patients about numerous things. I just don't see how the equivalent is true on the pro-choice side. But I'll await the articles you have since you said these things happen more regularly than I know. I am 100% open to informing myself about things I don't know about and I'd certainly want to bring these issues up amongst colleagues if there are people on "our side" doing these things regularly, so that we could work to stop it.

I’m saying there are probably as many loonies on both sides. I also said there are probably fewer assaults against pro-lifers. Those statements aren’t mutually exclusive.

 

[AMEHigh]

I’m saying there are probably as many loonies on both sides. I also said there are probably fewer assaults against pro-lifers. Those statements aren’t mutually exclusive.

Ok. Maybe our definition of loony is different? I made my definition of loony pretty clear in regards to harassing, lying to people, yelling, sending hate mail, having websites with our personal info to track us, etc. I obviously would not care about loony pro-life people if they didn’t do those things to threaten our lives and interfere with patients getting medical care and just kept to themselves. But in my experience like I said regarding pro-life loonies doing the above things, I don’t know any of my pro-life colleagues sending hate mail, creating websites to harass pro-life people, lying to patients about care, etc to make the numbers even on both sides like you say.

Where are there groups of pro-choice people yelling at pro-life people and patients at their work place daily? Is that happening where you live? I honestly would be interested to see where that’s taking place. I mean maybe it is a good tactic I should try, ha, might make me feel better! I’ve been by crisis pregnancy centers in several states and I’ve never seen pro-choice people yelling and harassing people, but obviously I don’t know 100% of everything that happens everywhere.

Are pro-choice people trying to create laws that say pro-life people who work in pregnancy crisis centers and lie to patients should be charged with a crime and spend life in prison? That’s essentially the equivalent of saying that physicians who provide abortion care should be charged with homicide which would make them eligible for the death penalty depending on where they live. The advocacy around crisis pregnancy centers has been that they should disclose that they aren’t medical providers and that they shouldn’t be able to lie to patients (one tactic they often employ is doing an ultrasound and then lie to the patient telling them they’re further along in the pregnancy and too late to get an abortion). That is not the same thing the other side is trying to do by wanting us to go to jail and be charged with homicide.

So again, I’ll await your articles/info you said you had re: pro-choice people assaulting pro-life people more regularly than I realize before I make further judgements about there being even numbers on both sides.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Ok. Maybe our definition of loony is different? I made my definition of loony pretty clear in regards to harassing, lying to people, yelling, sending hate mail, having websites with our personal info to track us, etc. I obviously would not care about loony pro-life people if they didn’t do those things to threaten our lives and interfere with patients getting medical care and just kept to themselves. But in my experience like I said regarding pro-life loonies doing the above things, I don’t know any of my pro-life colleagues sending hate mail, creating websites to harass pro-life people, lying to patients about care, etc to make the numbers even on both sides like you say.

Where are there groups of pro-choice people yelling at pro-life people and patients at their work place daily? Is that happening where you live? I honestly would be interested to see where that’s taking place. I mean maybe it is a good tactic I should try, ha, might make me feel better! I’ve been by crisis pregnancy centers in several states and I’ve never seen pro-choice people yelling and harassing people, but obviously I don’t know 100% of everything that happens everywhere.

Are pro-choice people trying to create laws that say pro-life people who work in pregnancy crisis centers and lie to patients should be charged with a crime and spend life in prison? That’s essentially the equivalent of saying that physicians who provide abortion care should be charged with homicide which would make them eligible for the death penalty depending on where they live. The advocacy around crisis pregnancy centers has been that they should disclose that they aren’t medical providers and that they shouldn’t be able to lie to patients (one tactic they often employ is doing an ultrasound and then lie to the patient telling them they’re further along in the pregnancy and too late to get an abortion). That is not the same thing the other side is trying to do by wanting us to go to jail and be charged with homicide.

So again, I’ll await your articles/info you said you had re: pro-choice people assaulting pro-life people more regularly than I realize before I make further judgements about there being even numbers on both sides.

I mean it seems like you already have a judgement. Like I said, you can do a very simple google search and find plenty of incidents. I do think it is less common than the other way around though. But tbh I was surprised to find out that it happens at all, let alone more than just a handful of times. Edit: but afaik, pro-choice folks have never tried to fire bomb pro-life pickets. They may have, but I haven’t heard about it.

As far as laws go, while they aren’t trying to pass laws to force people to have abortions (though that has been the case in the US horrifyingly), they are trying to pass laws to make abortions funded by taxpayer money. People who view abortions as literal murder probably don’t want their tax money finding it.

 

[AMEHigh]

I mean it seems like you already have a judgement. Like I said, you can do a very simple google search and find plenty of incidents. I do think it is less common than the other way around though. But tbh I was surprised to find out that it happens at all, let alone more than just a handful of times.

As far as laws go, while they aren’t trying to pass laws to force people to have abortions (though that has been the case in the US horrifyingly), they are trying to pass laws to make abortions funded by taxpayer money. People who view abortions as literal murder probably don’t want their tax money finding it.

Yes I said above that organizations like Guttmacher and NAF keep tabs on safety concerns for abortion providers and organizations, so that’s where my objective info is coming from that there are more loonies on the pro-life side. Obviously when I personally get hate mail, and get yelled at and harassed of course I have judgement about what’s happening because I’ve never thought to find out the address of where the pro-life people live and send them hate mail back. Nor are any of the multiple advocacy groups I’m in are talking about doing these things. So yes I have those anecdotes and objective info from organizations

But I really am genuinely interested to know about the pro-choice assaults against pro-life people that you mentioned that happen more regularly. I wasn’t being sarcastic or anything, I really would like to read the data about it, where it’s happening regularly, who is generally behind it, etc. I think it’d be good info for me to have because like I said I don’t want those type of people to be "on my side" that are regularly assaulting pro-life people. I’d also be interested to know if the number of these assaults has increased or decreased over the past 5 years to see if it’s correlated to the increases in violence against abortion provider locations over the past 5 years. I assume there’d be a similar increase based on what you say, but obviously I could be wrong, so that’s why I want to read about it.

I did try to Google and I showed you the top 2 articles that came up for me. The rest were articles from NARAL, NAF and a few others about violence against abortion providers and patients trying to access care. Google algorithms are different for people so that’s why I’m guessing I’m not getting the appropriate articles. I tried googling "assaults against pro-life protestors" and "pro-choice violent acts" and there weren’t any articles about what you mention. I assume it’s because of my Google algorithms (I also tried on my partner’s iPad but I’m guessing his algorithms are similar to mine). So If you could please link to the info you have about these assaults that you said are happening more regularly since they’re coming up in your Google results I’d greatly appreciate it.

 

[Lawpy]

As far as laws go, while they aren’t trying to pass laws to force people to have abortions (though that has been the case in the US horrifyingly), they are trying to pass laws to make abortions funded by taxpayer money. People who view abortions as literal murder probably don’t want their tax money finding it.

This is a valid pro life stance i can agree with

 

[FutureInternist]

I mean it seems like you already have a judgement. Like I said, you can do a very simple google search and find plenty of incidents. I do think it is less common than the other way around though. But tbh I was surprised to find out that it happens at all, let alone more than just a handful of times. Edit: but afaik, pro-choice folks have never tried to fire bomb pro-life pickets. They may have, but I haven’t heard about it.

As far as laws go, while they aren’t trying to pass laws to force people to have abortions (though that has been the case in the US horrifyingly), they are trying to pass laws to make abortions funded by taxpayer money. People who view abortions as literal murder probably don’t want their tax money finding it.

The problem with that is that you can always find people who would object to one thing or another and hence the divvying up of taxes gets impossible.

What if I don’t like my taxes to pick up the slack for religious orgs lack of paying taxes, when they discriminate so much?

What if, knowing the inherent flaws in the criminal justice system, I don’t want my taxes to go towards capital punishment (which anti-abortionists somehow don’t have a problem with)

What if you don’t want to pay taxes to local school ‘cos you don’t have (nor plan to have) any kids?

 

[Lawpy]

The problem with that is that you can always find people who would object to one thing or another and hence the divvying up of taxes gets impossible.

What if I don’t like my taxes to pick up the slack for religious orgs lack of paying taxes, when they discriminate so much?

What if, knowing the inherent flaws in the criminal justice system, I don’t want my taxes to go towards capital punishment (which anti-abortionists somehow don’t have a problem with)

What if you don’t want to pay taxes to local school ‘cos you don’t have (nor plan to have) any kids?

I'm pushing for lower taxes just to get the government to fix up its finances and reprioritize better

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The problem with that is that you can always find people who would object to one thing or another and hence the divvying up of taxes gets impossible.

What if I don’t like my taxes to pick up the slack for religious orgs lack of paying taxes, when they discriminate so much?

What if, knowing the inherent flaws in the criminal justice system, I don’t want my taxes to go towards capital punishment (which anti-abortionists somehow don’t have a problem with)

What if you don’t want to pay taxes to local school ‘cos you don’t have (nor plan to have) any kids?

Then you can move to a state where they don’t have they death penalty or a state where they don’t have state taxes. Or you can work toward legislation that changes that stuff. No one would bat an eye if you tried to push legislation to stop funding capital punishment with taxpayer money, but somehow people doing the same thing for abortion are evil. It’s murder to them. I don’t know how else to explain it.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Then you can move to a state where they don’t have they death penalty or a state where they don’t have state taxes. Or you can work toward legislation that changes that stuff. No one would bat an eye if you tried to push legislation to stop funding capital punishment with taxpayer money, but somehow people doing the same thing for abortion are evil. It’s murder to them. I don’t know how else to explain it.

This is why people here think I'm pro-life sometimes (I'm not), but the utter inability to see the other side kills me.

 

[Crayola227]

I was trying to get at why someone who thinks aborting a fetus is murder would behave the way they do, but the person I was talking to is so dogmatic and rigid that I couldn’t get anywhere.

I mean that's great that's what they think, but it doesn't make it true. A baby is born and lives outside the womb. A pre-age-of-viability-fetus cannot. Not all fetuses are babies. Their foundational premise is wrong.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I mean that's great that's what they think, but it doesn't make it true. A baby is born and lives outside the womb. A pre-age-of-viability-fetus cannot. Not all fetuses are babies. Their foundational premise is wrong.

I’m not saying I agree with them, but that y’all can’t understand that your opinion on something isn’t actually a fact is mind boggling. Life begins at conception. Life begins at work. These are opinions, and neither of them can be disproven. The absolute inability to put yourself into the other side’s shoes doesn’t help anything.

 

[Lawpy]

This is why people here think I'm pro-life sometimes (I'm not), but the utter inability to see the other side kills me.

Is it so hard to understand that people do see the other side but don't agree? Why do you guys keep deliberately misunderstanding this and then get all frustrated?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Is it so hard to understand that people do see the other side but don't agree? Why do you guys keep deliberately misunderstanding this and then get all frustrated?

Dude, y’all are literally completely discounting the other side’s view, insulting them, and saying they’re flat out wrong about everything. That is NOT seeing the other side.

 

[Lawpy]

I’m not saying I agree with them, but that y’all can’t understand that your opinion on something isn’t actually a fact is mind boggling. Life begins at conception. Life begins at work. These are opinions, and neither of them can be disproven. The absolute inability to put yourself into the other side’s shoes doesn’t help anything.

Are you kidding me? I keep saying that and i get ridiculed as dogmatic.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Are you kidding me? I keep saying that and i get ridiculed as dogmatic.

What? You’ve done nothing in this thread but shout your opinions like they’re facts and that anyone who disagrees is just wrong. What are you talking about?

 

[Lawpy]

Dude, y’all are literally completely discounting the other side’s view, insulting them, and saying they’re flat out wrong about everything. That is NOT seeing the other side.

Come on man, i was saying i'm against restrictions because i don't agree with their trying to force everyone to agree that their view of abortion = murder is a fact.

You can be pro life without supporting restrictions. That's my point.

 

[Lawpy]

What? You’ve done nothing in this thread but shout your opinions like they’re facts and that anyone who disagrees is just wrong. What are you talking about?

I was repeatedly condemning abortion = murder as a fact. I don't know how much clearer i should be.

 

[Lawpy]

People have the right to have pro life and pro choice beliefs. I oppose abortion restrictions because i feel forced that i must agree abortion = murder when i don't.

I also agree with pro life opposition to taxpayer funded abortions because subsidizing murder in their eyes is wrong. I said both of these in this thread.

 

[AMEHigh]

This is why people here think I'm pro-life sometimes (I'm not), but the utter inability to see the other side kills me.

I certainly see the other side.
I just don’t think people should impose their views on others (especially not physicians) and certainly shouldn’t tell people lies, harass them, send hate mail, yell at people, etc.

But like I said above if you keep your views to yourself then no big deal. Although I’ll be devastated if Roe v Wade ever falls, and abortion access is severely limited in many places, I certainly understand people who are against abortion. It’s just the lies they tell to pass these laws and the harassment that’s maddening.

I’m still waiting on the articles about how all the pro-choice people are assaulting pro-life people regularly. I genuinely want to read more about it and my Google searches aren’t coming up with anything.

 

[Lawpy]

I certainly see the other side.
I just don’t think people should impose their views on others (especially not physicians) and certainly shouldn’t tell people lies, harass them, send hate mail, yell at people, etc.

But like I said above if you keep your views to yourself then no big deal. Although I’ll be devastated if Roe v Wade ever falls, and abortion access is severely limited in many places, I certainly understand people who are against abortion. It’s just the lies they tell to pass these laws and the harassment that’s maddening.

I’m still waiting on the articles about how all the pro-choice people are assaulting pro-life people regularly. I genuinely want to read more about it and my Google searches aren’t coming up with anything.

I'm beginning to realize that opposing restrictions is viewed as the same as hating pro life and refusing to see their side according to VA doc's reasoning.

Sorry, i'm not going to support any abortion restrictions. I know why pro lifers would support them but that doesn't mean i should compromise. Call me dogmatic and rigid, i don't care.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I just don’t think people should impose their views on others

Unless they agree with you, right?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'm beginning to realize that opposing restrictions is viewed as the same as hating pro life and refusing to see their side according to VA doc's reasoning.

Sorry, i'm not going to support any abortion restrictions. I know why pro lifers would support them but that doesn't mean i should compromise. Call me dogmatic and rigid, i don't care.

Not necessarily. I’m pro-life in that I am anti-abortion, but I don’t believe that abortion restrictions other than a ban on late-term abortions should exist. I’d rather a woman who is going to get an abortion anyway have a safe and legal way to get it than force her to have to choose between breaking the law and carrying out a pregnancy she really doesn’t want.

 

[Lawpy]

Not necessarily. I’m pro-life in that I am anti-abortion, but I don’t believe that abortion restrictions other than a ban on late-term abortions should exist. I’d rather a woman who is going to get an abortion anyway have a safe and legal way to get it than force her to have to choose between breaking the law and carrying out a pregnancy she really doesn’t want.

I can agree with this mostly.

 

[FutureInternist]

I'm pushing for lower taxes just to get the government to fix up its finances and reprioritize bette

My take on that is that R’s continually give corporation and millionaires tax breaks who don’t pay their fair share, under the false notion of “trickle down economics”.

There is unlimited $ for wars, and the defence dept etc, but feeding hungry kids somehow becomes an issue.

The myth of scarce resources is what allows people to be angry about the single mom on food stamps, but not care too much about Amazon, WalMart or Trump not paying taxes.

 

[FutureInternist]

Not necessarily. I’m pro-life in that I am anti-abortion, but I don’t believe that abortion restrictions other than a ban on late-term abortions should exist. I’d rather a woman who is going to get an abortion anyway have a safe and legal way to get it than force her to have to choose between breaking the law and carrying out a pregnancy she really doesn’t want.

I like Biden’s view on it (from when he was VP).

I hate it and hence want to make it a rare thing.

Ofcourse, that involves comprehensive sex education, easy access to birth control etc which most R states don’t do resulting in states like Texas having one of the highest teen pregnancy rates.

 

[Lawpy]

My take on that is that R’s continually give corporation and millionaires tax breaks who don’t pay their fair share, under the false notion of “trickle down economics”.

There is unlimited $ for wars, and the defence dept etc, but feeding hungry kids somehow becomes an issue.

The myth of scarce resources is what allows people to be angry about the single mom on food stamps, but not care too much about Amazon, WalMart or Trump not paying taxes.

Agreed. I support progressive taxes and subsidizing/giving tax breaks for the poor and lower middle class. I also support very strong social safety nets, a massive overhaul in adoptions/orphanages and much stronger maternal and child benefits. I can sympathize more with pro life abortion restrictions if all of these social reforms were in place.

 

[FutureInternist]

Then you can move to a state where they don’t have they death penalty or a state where they don’t have state taxes. Or you can work toward legislation that changes that stuff. No one would bat an eye if you tried to push legislation to stop funding capital punishment with taxpayer money, but somehow people doing the same thing for abortion are evil. It’s murder to them. I don’t know how else to explain it.

Thats BS.

If the state the I have lived in for the past 10 years, all of a sudden bans all Muslims, your take would be to just move?

Sure its unconstitutional, but what if you’re gay? (It was legal to fire someone just for being gay in majority of states until the latest SC decision).

The “just move” crap is like the “know your place” crap.

The people in majority don’t want to have to change to accommodate others and hence that mantra.

 

[Lawpy]

I like Biden’s view on it (from when he was VP).

I hate it and hence want to make it a rare thing.

Ofcourse, that involves comprehensive sex education, easy access to birth control etc which most R states don’t do resulting in states like Texas having one of the highest teen pregnancy rates.

Yes i agree here. I don't want anyone to get an abortion if they don't want to but patient education is necessary and late term abortions are extremely dangerous. But i hate the government getting involved in extremely personal, medical decisions.

I have far more respect for pro life doctors than i have for antichoice legislators

 

[FutureInternist]

Agreed. I support progressive taxes and subsidizing/giving tax breaks for the poor and lower middle class. I also support very strong social safety nets, a massive overhaul in adoptions/orphanages and much stronger maternal and child benefits. I can sympathize more with pro life abortion restrictions if all of these social reforms were in place.

Marry me !!!! 😏

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I like Biden’s view on it (from when he was VP).

I hate it and hence want to make it a rare thing.

Ofcourse, that involves comprehensive sex education, easy access to birth control etc which most R states don’t do resulting in states like Texas having one of the highest teen pregnancy rates.

Yeah the majority of pro-life folks don’t do things the right way.

 

[AMEHigh]

Unless they agree with you, right?

No.
When it comes to abortion care I don't care if someone is pro-life if they don't force their beliefs on others by lying, harassing, yelling, sending hate mail, etc. The things I've said repeatedly in this post.

If you don't want to get an abortion, then don't, but don't lie and harass others about their decisions. Don't trick people to enter your crisis pregnancy center and then lie to people. That is where my problem comes in. I'm not trying to force anyone to have an abortion.
There are plenty of things that I don't agree with, but the actions of certain pro-life groups is sickening because they use un-ethical tactics in my opinion to try to coerce people to do what they want. That is not ok.

Can you just imagine if outside of medical buildings that provide prenatal care there were dozens of people yelling at pregnant people telling them they're ruining their lives, they're the devil, and that they're going to go to hell by having a child? And then if they're able to convince someone to come speak with them they then take them to a medical facility, tell them lies about giving birth like it's going to cause breast cancer and that giving birth is likely going to kill them and that they should have an abortion? Then, daily for the next weeks they call the person daily to make sure they've had their abortion? Then, on top of that looked up the addresses of doctors and midwives providing prenatal care and sent hate mail to their homes and offices? And stood outside their personal homes with hate filled messages as well?
That is not at all ok and that is exactly what is happening, so yes I have a problem with pro-life groups who try to force their beliefs on others. It's not just about the beliefs.

And where are the articles that you previously spoke about in regards to just as many loony pro-choice people assaulting pro-life people on a more regular basis? I was hoping to read them today on my day off.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Thats BS.

If the state the I have lived in for the past 10 years, all of a sudden bans all Muslims, your take would be to just move?

Sure its unconstitutional, but what if you’re gay? (It was legal to fire someone just for being gay in majority of states until the latest SC decision).

The “just move” crap is like the “know your place” crap.

The people in majority don’t want to have to change to accommodate others and hence that mantra.

You must have missed the second part of my post, where I said or stay and fight to change the legislation.

But your example doesn’t really work because banning Muslims is not something that could ever happen since it’s wildly unconstitutional. As for being fired for being gay, that’s where what I just said above comes in. And that’s exactly my point.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

No.
When it comes to abortion care I don't care if someone is pro-life if they don't force their beliefs on others by lying, harassing, yelling, sending hate mail, etc. The things I've said repeatedly in this post.

If you don't want to get an abortion, then don't, but don't lie and harass others about their decisions. Don't trick people to enter your crisis pregnancy center and then lie to people. That is where my problem comes in. I'm not trying to force anyone to have an abortion.
There are plenty of things that I don't agree with, but the actions of certain pro-life groups is sickening because they use un-ethical tactics in my opinion to try to coerce people to do what they want. That is not ok.

Can you just imagine if outside of medical buildings that provide prenatal care there were dozens of people yelling at pregnant people telling them they're ruining their lives, they're the devil, and that they're going to go to hell by having a child? And then if they're able to convince someone to come speak with them they then take them to a medical facility, tell them lies about giving birth like it's going to cause breast cancer and that giving birth is likely going to kill them and that they should have an abortion? Then, daily for the next weeks they call the person daily to make sure they've had their abortion? Then, on top of that looked up the addresses of doctors and midwives providing prenatal care and sent hate mail to their homes and offices? And stood outside their personal homes with hate filled messages as well?
That is not at all ok and that is exactly what is happening, so yes I have a problem with pro-life groups who try to force their beliefs on others. It's not just about the beliefs.

I don’t disagree with any of this, as I’ve said repeatedly. Not sure why you want to keep tilting at windmills.

And where are the articles that you previously spoke about in regards to just as many loony pro-choice people assaulting pro-life people on a more regular basis? I was hoping to read them today on my day off.

Yeah sorry, I spent Valentine’s Day with my wife and I’m spending my day off with my kids. But as I said before, since you clearly have a judgement already in mind, there’s no point. I’ve said more than once now that pro-life violence definitely outnumbers pro-choice violence and that as far as I know, pro-choice violence is limited to a small number of assaults and not the domestic terror that pro-life groups commit. But you keep mischaracterizing what I said as “there is just as much violence on the pro-choice side.” So no, I can’t post articles showing that, since it’s not true. But I never said it was.

Our definition of loonies clearly differs, because I don’t just mean people who commit violence. People who try to make it so federal tax dollars pay for abortion, who promote abortion as birth control, and people who post insane **** on social media are all loony toons to me. There are plenty of those people on both sides.

 

[FutureInternist]

Yeah the majority of pro-life folks don’t do things the right way.

Most are pro-BIRTH, not life

 

[FutureInternist]

You must have missed the second part of my post, where I said or stay and fight to change the legislation.

But your example doesn’t really work because banning Muslims is not something that could ever happen since it’s wildly unconstitutional. As for being fired for being gay, that’s where what I just said above comes in. And that’s exactly my point.

I dod say it is unconstitutional.
But the law for gay people had to be fought for for so long that the original plaintiff died.
It shoudn’t have to be a struggle to get basic rights.

As for fighting to change legislation, definitely should be done but there again is the Republican party with its voter suppression tactics, targeting mostly minorities, who tend to vote Democratic, who in turn tend to be pro-choice.