Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

[amindwalker]

By the way, I raised my hand today. I'm officially 2LT Notdeadyet now....

I'm in the medical service corps just like everyone else. If you have documentation that indicates that you will be a 2LT in the MC, you need to have someone check the regs. It is a subtle thing. I know it seems cool to be in the medical corps as a med student, but you are not a physician. If the regulations have changed and med students are now being put into the MC, I would be really surprised. Again, I submit that it is in error, and you need to be absolutely certain (and not take someone's word for it, not even your recruiter's).

The military takes uniforms very seriously. You wear your resume. If you display something that you haven't earned, you can get in some really hot water. Koojo: imagine someone wearing the CMB (or CIB) on their ACU, but they have never been anywhere near combat (or even outside of CONUS). If such an individual was wearing it because his recruiter told him to, it would still mean his ass. Wearing the insignia of a physician when you are not one is no different.

Former CNO Admiral Boorda was busted for wearing a tiny device on a ribbon (a ribbon that he was legitimately awarded, but w/out the device). He was to face a court martial for it, but he killed himself in shame. He was at the time the highest ranking officer in the US Navy.

Maybe I'm wrong (I'm married, so I'm used to not being right), but I emphatically submit that it is a mistake. I will contact NGB tonight. I will let you all know as soon as I hear back.

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[notdeadyet]

It's a little known fact that the swearing in is the second-to-last step in the ASR process. You don't get your first check until amindwalker posts his graphics.

If the regulations have changed and med students are now being put into the MC, I would be really surprised.

You are correct. I have the document koojo is referring to and saw my name with MC in the Corps field.

I asked my recruiter about this and she said that I am destined for MC, but only after I become a physician. Until then, I am in MSC.

 

[amindwalker]

The banana smiley didn't work! Frak! Sorry for that, I know you've been waiting a long time for the virtual throwing of the confetti. Let's see if it works now
You are complete. Seriously though, congrats 2LT notdeadyet!!!

 

[amindwalker]

Why on earth would anyone do that now?!!?

3 possible reasons; They didn't find this thread, they don't go to my school (or yours), their mothers had an iodine deficiency during the first trimester.

 

[punkiedad]

I have the list of the people who were accepted by USAREC in February during last weeks board. Supposedly this was the BIGGEST Medical board in HISTORY. If anyone wants to know if they're on it, PM me your name (first and last) and I will let you know. This is a list from USAREC. Can't post it because it's for official use only.

For me it says that I am eligible to commission into MC as a 00E67 (student doctor). It says MC for pretty much everybody...I didn't see MSC. I'll actually be commissioned when I raise my hand and take the oath at the state board. It does not say MSC, so you can theoretically wear the MC insignia on your Class A's.

Here is the breakdown for the Feb board:
TOTAL Boarded: 31

3 Dental Students
18 Medical Students
3 Doctors
3 Physician Assistance
1 Social Worker
1 Environmental Science
1 Nuclear Science
1 Aero Medical Evacuation

I am sending a PM with my info, though I don't think I made it.

My recruiter said that there is another board meeting this week? It is different but she said she can still get my packet reviewed??? It was supposed to happen today, but no call..............Oh and by the way, she did say the meeting / interview / board that was supposed to happen Monday in our area, FTIG, was cancelled and was now something like March 6th?

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Does anyone know when the payback of MDSSP begins? I'm racking my brain wondering why someone would take it vs. ASR. And actually, my recruiter, when I first started this process and was reading on here about 1.5 and 2:1 paybacks, stated that JAG had pretty much put the smackdown on that, basically saying it isn't legal. Don't know if that applies in the MDSSP case or not. But maybe there is something saying you don't work off the time until after residency?

What are people being told about what units you can go to once you graduate? I got a big time line unit sales pitch today. I still haven't found a good resource for even seeing what units are available...

 

[lazyanteater]

It's a little known fact that the swearing in is the second-to-last step in the ASR process. You don't get your first check until amindwalker posts his graphics.

You are correct. I have the document koojo is referring to and saw my name with MC in the Corps field.

I asked my recruiter about this and she said that I am destined for MC, but only after I become a physician. Until then, I am in MSC.

Congrats 2LT.

I actually just got an email back from my recruiter, and she said we're in a status called msc to mc whatever that means but as far as the usarec board we're mc.

good luck to everyone else

 

[notdeadyet]

What are people being told about what units you can go to once you graduate? I got a big time line unit sales pitch today. I still haven't found a good resource for even seeing what units are available...

What do you mean "when you graduate"?

I'm being assigned a line unit while in medical school. My primary duty is to assist my recruiter as needed, but I'm asked to drill "as available" with a line unit. I was given the number of a couple CO's to speak to. I talked to one, and it sounded as if the assignment during med school was largely to keep me interested in that unit for when I could drill properly.

In residency, it's a different gig. I'll be expected to drill unless I have a valid schedule conflict. There won't be a list of available units, but I can talk to a recruiter or detailer to get a list of vacancies.

A lot of this will vary by state. In California, a sizable minority of physicial billets in the National Guard are vacant. From talking to folks, I can pretty much be assigned where I like. I checked online for the units in California, and most that have physicians had space for me.

 

[notdeadyet]

I actually just got an email back from my recruiter, and she said we're in a status called msc to mc whatever that means but as far as the usarec board we're mc.

Makes sense. You will be MSC, but you are not being commissioned for the sake of fulfilling an MSC slot. It's a temporary assignment until you become a physician, at which time you'll be MC.

 

[notdeadyet]

The banana smiley didn't work! Frak! Sorry for that, I know you've been waiting a long time for the virtual throwing of the confetti. Let's see if it works now
You are complete. Seriously though, congrats 2LT notdeadyet!!!

Much appreciated. The congratulations was a little weak until the dancing banana. He's critical.

 

[koojo]

Congrats on your commission notdeadyet! Welcome to the Army ! How long was your board and how did it go?

By the way, I found a good military document that described the ASR program in detail. It's 12 pages long, check it out: http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/arng/ocs/forms/DG_ASR_program.pdf.

Looks like all you need to start the ASR packet is your USAREC board results..however to actually sign up for ASR and put your name on the dotted line, you need to have taken the oath. I'm sure wavers are possible.

By that document, we are considered MSC/MC.

 

[NavyFP]

Much appreciated. The congratulations was a little weak until the dancing banana. He's critical.

I'll give you a pair of bananas and add a pair of monkeys (I love the monkeys).

Congrats 2LT NDY.

Just to add on a previous conversation. Navy does make its med students Medical Corps. I guess the Medical Service Corps wouldn't take them.

 

[amindwalker]

I knew somebody was going to bring that up. Navy HPSPers are Ensigns in the MC. Does the USAF do that too?

 

[Mr. Freeze]

What do you mean "when you graduate"?

I'm being assigned a line unit while in medical school. My primary duty is to assist my recruiter as needed, but I'm asked to drill "as available" with a line unit. I was given the number of a couple CO's to speak to. I talked to one, and it sounded as if the assignment during med school was largely to keep me interested in that unit for when I could drill properly.

In residency, it's a different gig. I'll be expected to drill unless I have a valid schedule conflict. There won't be a list of available units, but I can talk to a recruiter or detailer to get a list of vacancies.

A lot of this will vary by state. In California, a sizable minority of physicial billets in the National Guard are vacant. From talking to folks, I can pretty much be assigned where I like. I checked online for the units in California, and most that have physicians had space for me.

Until then I'm not assigned to a unit per se, just Recruiting Command, I guess. My boss is the AMEDD OSM. I don't drill unless I want to, for kicks.

 

[iatrosB]

Does anyone know when the payback of MDSSP begins? I'm racking my brain wondering why someone would take it vs. ASR. And actually, my recruiter, when I first started this process and was reading on here about 1.5 and 2:1 paybacks, stated that JAG had pretty much put the smackdown on that, basically saying it isn't legal. Don't know if that applies in the MDSSP case or not.

Are you saying that the 2:1 commitment is not legal? 2:1 is the current policy.

But maybe there is something saying you don't work off the time until after residency?

The current policy is to start repayment AFTER residency.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Are you saying that the 2:1 commitment is not legal? 2:1 is the current policy.



The current policy is to start repayment AFTER residency.

It seems like I remember when ASR was first being discussed, some states were making 2:1 obligations. Maybe it was MDSSP. I know MDSSP is now. What I don't know is if that is legal or not. I don't care either way, being ASR, but it is prolly something we should know about if we are selling the Guard. I'll ask what exactly we were discussing when that came up.

I could certainly see not having to drill until after residency being a draw for MDSSP, essentially for the reasons I was concerned about doing ASR. With MDSSP, you'd have no issues with your residency app regarding weekends off, or AT. Sure you'll make less, but not having that added stress depending on what you become interested in as third year progresses might be worth it. For me it doesn't make much sense, but a lot of things don't. "It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart"...

 

[notdeadyet]

Congrats on your commission notdeadyet! Welcome to the Army ! How long was your board and how did it go?

Thanks. The board was quick. No more than 20 minutes. After the board was done interviewing all applicants, they took about 40 minutes to talk and then did the swearing in. And that 40 minutes included lunch for them.

Looks like all you need to start the ASR packet is your USAREC board results..however to actually sign up for ASR and put your name on the dotted line, you need to have taken the oath. I'm sure wavers are possible.

Glad to hear it. If they are able to get your ASR number and you can swear in in March, you should be in good shape. From the numbers people are talking about, I'm curious how many spots they'll have for the 1 JUL start.

By that document, we are considered MSC/MC.

True. It refers to MS/MC in the document,but it first mentions:

"Newly accessed AMEDD student officers are defined as an applicant who has been board approved through the US Army Recruiting Command (USAREC) and administered their oath into the ARNG on or after 1 April 2008 as a Medical Service Crops (MS) to Medical (MC)/Dental (DC) officer ..."

amindwalker is right on the money. The ASR program puts us in MS until we graduate medical school and then move us to MC. I'd be very hesitant to wear the uniform another way.

Thanks for posting the document, koojo. This is pretty much the authoritative reference for the program and the one I always refer to when talking about ASR.

 

[notdeadyet]

Until then I'm not assigned to a unit per se, just Recruiting Command, I guess. My boss is the AMEDD OSM. I don't drill unless I want to, for kicks.

Interesting situation. That doesn't sound like the norm.

The official policy is that ASR folks go to med school, help with recruiting, and participate in "all ARNG unit level training and drill exercises IAW the approved Flexible Training Policy" (which amounts to as little as one weekend every 3 mos with CO approval). Sounds like some states are easier on requirements than others, but I think ASR applicants should enter the program comfortable with the above. If they aren't, they could be in for some heartache with the changing of a CO.

It seems like I remember when ASR was first being discussed, some states were making 2:1 obligations. Maybe it was MDSSP. I know MDSSP is now. What I don't know is if that is legal or not. I don't care either way, being ASR, but it is prolly something we should know about if we are selling the Guard.

According to national, it's 2:1.

I could certainly see not having to drill until after residency being a draw for MDSSP, essentially for the reasons I was concerned about doing ASR. With MDSSP, you'd have no issues with your residency app regarding weekends off, or AT. Sure you'll make less, but not having that added stress depending on what you become interested in as third year progresses might be worth it.

Good point. I find med students to be an extremely risk adverse bunch. If that applies to someone, a lower risk/lower reward option like MDSSP may make sense.

Personally, I figure if you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly.

 

[koojo]

So another FRAGO today. I will actually have my state board in VT next week and going to two boards, one on Tuesday and one on Wednesday. They are holding a special board time for me because they want to get me into ASR by March 1st. To conduct the board, three qualified officers must be present to swear you in, and looks like I'll be in front of one of them on Tuesday, and in front of two on Wednesday.

After I'm sworn in, I should be getting my ASR control number shortly thereafter (deadline is March 1st for the April 1st payout), and they'll be working on my interstate transfer from VT to WV. They're also starting the paperwork for me to go to the OBLC course in April.

If you want change in the Army..just wait a minute. lol

 

[amindwalker]

3 officers for the board, but you only need one to swear you in. I had a Colonel and 2 Lt. Colonels for my board. After they approved me, I was dismissed from the room. Then, a SGT wandered around until he found a Major sitting at a desk. He respectfully asked the Major if he wouldn't mind administering my oath. He did, and I became 2LT amindwalker.

Koojo: What day are you taking the oath (I have emoticons to prepare)? It's great that you will be able to do OBLC before med school. You're gonna make so much money over the next 4 years (compared to most of the other med students).

 

[koojo]

3 officers for the board, but you only need one to swear you in. I had a Colonel and 2 Lt. Colonels for my board.

Ya, that's what I meant.

Koojo: What day are you taking the oath (I have emoticons to prepare)? It's great that you will be able to do OBLC before med school. You're gonna make so much money over the next 4 years (compared to most of the other med students).

I'm taking the oath this Wednesday. I really want to knock out OBLC soon. I think I want to go to Ft. Sam Houston more than anything though lol, that's where I did my four month combat medic AIT back in 2003. I love that place and I want to go back.

 

[EMH]

I really want to knock out OBLC soon. I think I want to go to Ft. Sam Houston more than anything though lol, that's where I did my four month combat medic AIT back in 2003. I love that place and I want to go back.

I like the sound of that, I'll be there in October.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

My brother is there now. He says pretty much every day there is someone busted in coitus and last week there was a GP medium or some ****, full of people ****ing. I would want to go back too!

Oh, and my orders say I'm assigned to Joint Forces HQ...

 

[koojo]

My brother is there now. He says pretty much every day there is someone busted in coitus and last week there was a GP medium or some **** full of people ****ing. I would want to go back too!

Haha ya when I was there for medic training people were busted for making sex videos... You know, whatever you do on your own time is fine with me, but don't let the drill sergeants get a hold of your sex tapes! lol

 

[EMH]

Haha ya when I was there for medic training people were busted for making sex videos... You know, whatever you do on your own time is fine with me, but don't let the drill sergeants get a hold of your sex tapes! lol

I guess that's what's meant when they call it a gentleman's course.

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

Just talked to a recruiter. Kinda have to wait on stuff until I pick a school.

 

[notdeadyet]

Just talked to a recruiter. Kinda have to wait on stuff until I pick a school.

Do you have an acceptance? If you do, I'd ask for the initial paperwork. The DCA application packet can take a while to prepare. The recruiter can't move far without knowing the med school you'll be attending, but you can get moving on the background paperwork.

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

Do you have an acceptance? If you do, I'd ask for the initial paperwork. The DCA application packet can take a while to prepare. The recruiter can't move far without knowing the med school you'll be attending, but you can get moving on the background paperwork.

Yeah, I am going to meet with him next week. Just to make sure I know what I am getting myself into. It was just an initial phone call. I also still need to convince the GF.

 

[notdeadyet]

Yeah, I am going to meet with him next week. Just to make sure I know what I am getting myself into. It was just an initial phone call. I also still need to convince the GF.

Good thinking. If you haven't even started med school yet, you have plenty of time to make sure the decision is right for you.

 

[punkiedad]

So another FRAGO today. I will actually have my state board in VT next week and going to two boards, one on Tuesday and one on Wednesday. They are holding a special board time for me because they want to get me into ASR by March 1st. To conduct the board, three qualified officers must be present to swear you in, and looks like I'll be in front of one of them on Tuesday, and in front of two on Wednesday.

After I'm sworn in, I should be getting my ASR control number shortly thereafter (deadline is March 1st for the April 1st payout), and they'll be working on my interstate transfer from VT to WV. They're also starting the paperwork for me to go to the OBLC course in April.

If you want change in the Army..just wait a minute. lol

Talked to my recruiter and nothing new. I really hope i dont have to wait another month. I really wish I could just get straight answers.........very frustrating.

 

[koojo]

Talked to my recruiter and nothing new. I really hope i dont have to wait another month. I really wish I could just get straight answers.........very frustrating.

You should find out when the board meets next. I think they only meet once a month, but I could be wrong. Tell her you need a definitive answer. The USAREC board dates are written out somewhere, my recruiter had the dates, but I forgot to copy them down.

 

[EMH]

You should find out when the board meets next. I think they only meet once a month, but I could be wrong. Tell her you need a definitive answer. The USAREC board dates are written out somewhere, my recruiter had the dates, but I forgot to copy them down.

I have a feeling they've been making a lot of exceptions lately due to the large amount of people trying to get in on a deadline.

 

[koojo]

I have a feeling they've been making a lot of exceptions lately due to the large amount of people trying to get in on a deadline.

Possibly. Not sure how many applicants our of all are actually trying the meet the March 1st deadline for ASR April 1st payout.

 

[notdeadyet]

I have a feeling they've been making a lot of exceptions lately due to the large amount of people trying to get in on a deadline.

Yeah, a recruiter had said that ASR is up to enough already for the year that with what they have in the pipeline, they think that they could get close to 200 total for the 1 APR start.

 

[punkiedad]

Yeah, a recruiter had said that ASR is up to enough already for the year that with what they have in the pipeline, they think that they could get close to 200 total for the 1 APR start.

THAT is what I am worried about. I don't care that I wouldn't start getting paid until July1st or whenever......I am still working full time until I start school. I am OK now, just want to make sure I don'tget bounced from this and then start school scrambling for options............I am just worried about the program filling up. My recruiter says not to worry they have not told them to back off, but I have a funny feeling an email will go out telling them to pull the plug and if you are in the process, oh well......They did not come up with the ASR program because they are feeling generous. It is a killer program cause they need the numbers. When they get the numbers, they do not need to give the house away....so to speak.

 

[amindwalker]

Yeah, a recruiter had said that ASR is up to enough already for the year that with what they have in the pipeline, they think that they could get close to 200 total for the 1 APR start.

punkiedad: You are in the pipeline. I've got lots of smilies standing by with your name on them.

 

[EMH]

"God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change,
courage to change the things we can,
and wisdom to know the difference."

 

[notdeadyet]

THAT is what I am worried about. I don't care that I wouldn't start getting paid until July1st or whenever......I am still working full time until I start school. I am OK now, just want to make sure I don'tget bounced from this and then start school scrambling for options...........

It doesn't mean much in the big picture.

Here's the gig: you haven't started med school yet and the ASR program is only for 3 years. So whether you start on 1 JUL or 1 OCT, it makes no difference ultimately to the amount of money in your pocket. You start 3 months later than you'd like, but you'll get paid 3 months more than you'd anticipated. It balances out.

I was supposed to start ASR on 1 JAN but had to start 1 APR instead. Since I'm only taking it for less than 3 years, this new start date equates to roughly $12K less I'll be getting. But big picture, it's still a whole lot more than I'd be getting if I hadn't heard about the program at all.

And keep in mind that the amount of financial aid you will get from your school is unaffected by this. If you made $1,000 last year or $100,00 last year, you still qualify for the same amount of financial aid from your school. The only difference is that the lower earner will get more in subsidized loans and the latter in unsubsidized loans.

Anyway, I'll keep my finger crossed for you, but try to keep your eye on the bigger picture and some of the worry goes away. A 1JUL or 1 OCT start date will not affect your overall financial picture. And if you were anticipating not taking loans, just take out a smaller one, worth $12K. You can pay that back with the unexpected 3 months you'll get on the back end.

 

[notdeadyet]

My recruiter says not to worry they have not told them to back off, but I have a funny feeling an email will go out telling them to pull the plug and if you are in the process, oh well......They did not come up with the ASR program because they are feeling generous. It is a killer program cause they need the numbers. When they get the numbers, they do not need to give the house away....

By the way, if you're one of these folks that decides not to fill out the FAFSA because he's sure he'll pay for med school someway, I'd STRONGLY discourage this.

I'm keeping my fingers tightly crossed for your starting early. But you could have a 1 OCT start. And there is no guarantee the program will actually run all three years (if they cancel the program before three years, apparently we are have the option of resigning). All of this could be killed with the sweep of a pen.

So by all means pursue ASR, but make sure you fill out your FAFSA each year. If you can get by without any loans, I'm happy for you (and more than a bit jealous). But do not leave yourself in the lurch. Reach for graduating with $0 in loans, but be prepared to have the option of taking them should the need arise.

 

[EMH]

So by all means pursue ASR, but make sure you fill out your FAFSA each year. If you can get by without any loans, I'm happy for you (and more than a bit jealous). But do not leave yourself in the lurch. Reach for graduating with $0 in loans, but be prepared to have the option of taking them should the need arise.

On the other hand if you don't have loans, you can't use the guard's loan repayment thing once you graduate.

 

[notdeadyet]

On the other hand if you don't have loans, you can't use the guard's loan repayment thing once you graduate.

Right. Though you acquire additional commitment with that, right?

I think I'd be hesitant to advise anyone to take out loans they didn't have to based on the assumption they'll be able to use a loan repayment plan that may not be around in 8 years which adds additional commitment they may find they don't want to serve.

 

[EMH]

Right. Though you acquire additional commitment with that, right?

I think I'd be hesitant to advise anyone to take out loans they didn't have to based on the assumption they'll be able to use a loan repayment plan that may not be around in 8 years which adds additional commitment they may find they don't want to serve.

agreed

I'm kind of hoping that the 'rumor' the recruiters seem to think will happen will happen. That they'll increase that $50k loan repayment to $250k. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

agreed

I'm kind of hoping that the 'rumor' the recruiters seem to think will happen will happen. That they'll increase that $50k loan repayment to $250k. But I'm not holding my breath.

Heard that as well...prolly different source.

 

[notdeadyet]

Heard that as well...prolly different source.

Ditto hear. I've been hearing it for over a year. But the combinatoin of the unexpected two stimulus packages over the last year, the place the economy currently is, and the fact that ASR has been wildly successful, I'm being pretty conservative with my hopes of any big bump in things like loan repayment. Heck, they've been cutting back on enlistment and retention bonuses on the enlisted side of the house.

 

[EMH]

Ditto hear. I've been hearing it for over a year. But the combinatoin of the unexpected two stimulus packages over the last year, the place the economy currently is, and the fact that ASR has been wildly successful, I'm being pretty conservative with my hopes of any big bump in things like loan repayment. Heck, they've been cutting back on enlistment and retention bonuses on the enlisted side of the house.

That's because they've been at like 105-110% of their enlisted recruitment goals for the last couple years. They're recruiting a lot of NG [future] docs but retention will be a big issue 8-10 years from now when all of our MSO's start running out. Don't give up hope.

 

[koojo]

On the other hand if you don't have loans, you can't use the guard's loan repayment thing once you graduate.

It's actually better the take the $75k special pay bonus (if the army wants your speciality) and incur a 3 year obligation, than take the $50k loan repayment. The loan repayment incurs a 3 year obligation as well, so you'd be losing money if you did this instead of special pay. But a few years down the road, who knows, maybe the loan repayment will increase.

 

[notdeadyet]

Don't give up hope.

My attitude is that I signed up for the ASR pay. Any other benefits that come my way over the next 8+ years are just gravy.

Getting your hopes set on things that may or may not be years down the road is just added stress and a recipe for disappointment.

 

[EMH]

Getting your hopes set on things that may or may not be years down the road is just added stress and a recipe for disappointment.

Also, agreed.

 

[notdeadyet]

Also, agreed.

Though the thought of getting into a loan repayment program big enough to pay off my balance is something that I'll ask for come Christmas...

 

[punkiedad]

Thanks for the guidance guys. I will fill out the FAFSA as well. As far as the ASR program, I will relax a bit, butI guess it is always best to prepare for the unexpected (like getting denied HPSP!)

Thanks.