Ask the Program Coordinator!

[22031 Alum]

Chill. I like my learned colleague's posts and she's one of the people I regularly follow!

I assume @littlereddot quoted me while addressing @letmeinwillya, since I'm not sending any programs emails or letters these days.

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[Dilaudid PRN]

I know that a version of this question has been asked before, but I was wondering if someone could shed some light on the following: Does the competitiveness of the applicants that interviewed on the same day as I did affect where I will be ranked by a competitive program? For instance, are my chances of being ranked highly better if I interview on a day at which none of the other applicants are AOA vs. interviewing on a day at which half of the applicants are AOA (and I am not)?

People have asked in the past if the time of the year at which they schedule their interview matters, but my question is if the crowd of applicants interviewing at the same day as you affects your (preliminary?) ranking at a program.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I know that a version of this question has been asked before, but I was wondering if someone could shed some light on the following: Does the competitiveness of the applicants that interviewed on the same day as I did affect where I will be ranked by a competitive program? For instance, are my chances of being ranked highly better if I interview on a day at which none of the other applicants are AOA vs. interviewing on a day at which half of the applicants are AOA (and I am not)?

People have asked in the past if the time of the year at which they schedule their interview matters, but my question is if the crowd of applicants interviewing at the same day as you affects your (preliminary?) ranking at a program.

Not really. At my program, after the interview day completes we sort applicants into prelim quartiles of the rank list. If everyone is a star, then they all go into the top quartile. So it doesn't matter whom was there with you.

Again, there's no point worrying about parts of the process you have no control over.

 

[KeepCalm&DownDog]

Thank you Frederica! Do you consider the old style paper card sent in the mail in the same category as emails? I mean cards sent in the mail are considered equally undesired/uninvited from PD/PC's point of view? I'm sorry but I'm probably a nervous candidate who wants to make sure not let any opportunity pass by where I could have done any thing to improve my chances of getting ranked well at a program where I have already interviewed.

Thank you for your patience here for posters like me! I mean well so that's why I'm asking before I blindly send anything to a program where I have already interviewed.

Your lack of self-awareness and blatant disregard of how you're being perceived (after reading the multiple neurotic messages in which you actually take no ones advice) in these forums makes me question whether or not a serious personality disorder is at play.

I'm exhausted just reading your posts. Chill out.

 

[Cinematographer]

Thank you aProgDirector for your reply. I agree that it depends on the PD and how jaded he might have become with these type of letters. I'm referring to Internal Medicine match which has fairly large number of slots but at the same time has huge number of applicants.

If one were to send it though, is email preferred or a handwritten letter is more persuasive?

Good grief... I feel as if every time I revisit this thread there is a new post from you asking the same question on post-interview correspondence. You've been offered some great advise each time yet have disregarded most of it.

Your neuroticism is palpable on here, and is likely evident to interviewers as well. Good luck.

 

[J ROD]

:troll:

 

[littlereddot]

Your lack of self-awareness and blatant disregard of how you're being perceived (after reading the multiple neurotic messages in which you actually take no ones advice) in these forums makes me question whether or not a serious personality disorder is at play.

I'm exhausted just reading your posts. Chill out.

Your neuroticism is palpable on here,

Now with multiple people bashing him/her, I feel bad for @letmeinwillya !! Spread the love people He's probably just nervous or desperate!!

 

[Aminjumi]

Hello there

I would like to see every coordinator and those have expertise have an input in my dilemma.

I'm IMG looking for IM residency.

I graduated at 2008 and did 1 year internship which is a mandatory in my home.
I repeated 1 year during my medical college study.

Since fishing my internship 2009, I have been working as Primary Heath Physion at Primary Heath Care Center.

I just finish Family Diploma training at 2015 which is 2 years accredited program at my home .

I haven't done any of USMLE steps neither I have USCE.

Should I be positive , optimistic and clear all USMLs?

If that's what I should be doing, what are possible ways to boost my chances up in order to be matched?

My regards

 

[gutonc]

Hello there

I would like to see every coordinator and those have expertise have an input in my dilemma.

I'm IMG looking for IM residency.

I graduated at 2008 and did 1 year internship which is a mandatory in my home.
I repeated 1 year during my medical college study.

Since fishing my internship 2009, I have been working as Primary Heath Physion at Primary Heath Care Center.

I just finish Family Diploma training at 2015 which is 2 years accredited program at my home .

I haven't done any of USMLE steps neither I have USCE.

Should I be positive , optimistic and clear all USMLs?

If that's what I should be doing, what are possible ways to boost my chances up in order to be matched?

My regards

Honestly? You should stay where you are. By the time you take and pass all your Steps, you'll be pushing 9 or 10 years out of school. No program is going to touch you, especially without USCE.

 

[Aminjumi]

Honestly? You should stay where you are. By the time you take and pass all your Steps, you'll be pushing 9 or 10 years out of school. No program is going to touch you, especially without USCE.

Thanks for your input,

So basically your saying there are no means to boost my chance up even with getting scroe at 250s in both steps and
beside getting USCE.

BTW I have account @Freida and looked into every 417 Internal Medicine programs
and I found different ways for programs in stating their requirement regarding year of graduation:
1. They have 5 years cut off and it is must. or

2. They have 5 years cut off and it is preferable unless there is evidence of meaningful, ongoing continuing medical education or

3.They don't even mention their cutoff at all or

4. They dont have a graduation year requirement as they use a multi-criteria-based selection process or

5. They have " No Discrminations '' rule

6. They have 10 years cut off

 

[littlereddot]

Thanks for your input,

So basically your saying there are no means to boost my chance up even with getting scroe at 250s in both steps and
beside getting USCE.

BTW I have account @Freida and looked into every 417 Internal Medicine programs
and I found different ways for programs in stating their requirement regarding year of graduation:
1. They have 5 years cut off and it is must. or

2. They have 5 years cut off and it is preferable unless there is evidence of meaningful, ongoing continuing medical education or

3.They don't even mention their cutoff at all or

4. They dont have a graduation year requirement as they use a multi-criteria-based selection process or

5. They have " No Discrminations '' rule

6. They have 10 years cut off

That's the cut off. But you have to know that each program receives about 1000-2000 applications every year and they would rather send interview invites to someone fresh out of medical school over someone who graduated 10 years ago. I'm not saying that you don't stand chance, but your chances will be very slim as you will get filtered by most programs.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Hello there

I would like to see every coordinator and those have expertise have an input in my dilemma.

I'm IMG looking for IM residency.

I graduated at 2008 and did 1 year internship which is a mandatory in my home.
I repeated 1 year during my medical college study.

Since fishing my internship 2009, I have been working as Primary Heath Physion at Primary Heath Care Center.

I just finish Family Diploma training at 2015 which is 2 years accredited program at my home .

I haven't done any of USMLE steps neither I have USCE.

Should I be positive , optimistic and clear all USMLs?

If that's what I should be doing, what are possible ways to boost my chances up in order to be matched?

My regards

If you're interested in coming to the US, you need to take the USMLE and do as well as you can. If you can get US experience, that will be helpful. As mentioned in the thread, due to your length of time from graduation your options may be limited.

 

[martin j]

aProgDirector: I am an USIMG that will be applying for the next Match. Will I be at a disadvantage if I'm living abroad (outside of the US) during Match season? (for example: Do programs shy away from doing phone interviews because of having to call a candidate overseas due to bad phone connection, time zone differences, etc.) Do some programs still send out IV invitations by regular snail mail? It is not a problem for me to fly to US for IVs, but i just cannot stay in the US for the entire match season due to family/work obligations. Thank you for helping all of us in the forum.

 

[Aminjumi]

That's the cut off. But you have to know that each program receives about 1000-2000 applications every year and they would rather send interview invites to someone fresh out of medical school over someone who graduated 10 years ago. I'm not saying that you don't stand chance, but your chances will be very slim as you will get filtered by most programs.

If you're interested in coming to the US, you need to take the USMLE and do as well as you can. If you can get US experience, that will be helpful. As mentioned in the thread, due to your length of time from graduation your options may be limited.

Thanks for your inputs you all.
My question here:
In accordance of my chances is worthy to try it?

I really hope to be matched to IM residency as my aim isn't looking to live in US rather than bring US experience to my home and take the advantages out of it in order rise up Heath care systems and education 's level

 

[mvenus929]

aProgDirector: I am an USIMG that will be applying for the next Match. Will I be at a disadvantage if I'm living abroad (outside of the US) during Match season? (for example: Do programs shy away from doing phone interviews because of having to call a candidate overseas due to bad phone connection, time zone differences, etc.) Do some programs still send out IV invitations by regular snail mail? It is not a problem for me to fly to US for IVs, but i just cannot stay in the US for the entire match season due to family/work obligations. Thank you for helping all of us in the forum.

Yes, you will,be at a disadvantage. Most invites come via email, so long as you have a good connection and can occasionally make a phone call to arrange an interview, you'll be fine. Phone interviews aren't done, in my experience. However, limiting the time you can do interviews will put you at a disadvantage.

 

[Raryn]

aProgDirector: I am an USIMG that will be applying for the next Match. Will I be at a disadvantage if I'm living abroad (outside of the US) during Match season? (for example: Do programs shy away from doing phone interviews because of having to call a candidate overseas due to bad phone connection, time zone differences, etc.) Do some programs still send out IV invitations by regular snail mail? It is not a problem for me to fly to US for IVs, but i just cannot stay in the US for the entire match season due to family/work obligations. Thank you for helping all of us in the forum.

You'll need to make some phone calls to schedule interviews but otherwise everything else is via email/websites. A decent web connection and some form of VoIP and you'll be fine.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

aProgDirector: I am an USIMG that will be applying for the next Match. Will I be at a disadvantage if I'm living abroad (outside of the US) during Match season? (for example: Do programs shy away from doing phone interviews because of having to call a candidate overseas due to bad phone connection, time zone differences, etc.) Do some programs still send out IV invitations by regular snail mail? It is not a problem for me to fly to US for IVs, but i just cannot stay in the US for the entire match season due to family/work obligations. Thank you for helping all of us in the forum.

Some programs might do phone interviews for IMG's first, mainly to see if they speak English well. I expect that any program that does so will likely be willing to skype instead of call, or will arrange to have you call them.

I think you might be underestimating the amount of travel you might have to do. The main interview season is Nov - Jan, so about 12 weeks. But few programs interview the weeks of xmas, and some decrease over thanksgiving, so it's more like 10 weeks. Your interviews are likely to be spread through the period, and you may not have much control (i.e. it may be very difficult to batch geographically). As an IMG, you are likely to want to go on 20 interviews if you can. 20/10 = 2 per week. Flying back and forth to a foreign country that frequently isn't going to be very feasible, and you need to consider the effect jet lag may have on your interview performance.

 

[martin j]

Some programs might do phone interviews for IMG's first, mainly to see if they speak English well. I expect that any program that does so will likely be willing to skype instead of call, or will arrange to have you call them.

I think you might be underestimating the amount of travel you might have to do. The main interview season is Nov - Jan, so about 12 weeks. But few programs interview the weeks of xmas, and some decrease over thanksgiving, so it's more like 10 weeks. Your interviews are likely to be spread through the period, and you may not have much control (i.e. it may be very difficult to batch geographically). As an IMG, you are likely to want to go on 20 interviews if you can. 20/10 = 2 per week. Flying back and forth to a foreign country that frequently isn't going to be very feasible, and you need to consider the effect jet lag may have on your interview performance.

Thank you aProgDirector, Raryn and Mvenus929 for your advice.I realistically don't expect to get many interviews, if any at all. IMG/US Citz/2014 grad/ I failed step 1 once and only got 217 on the retake/ 218 on 2CK/CS pass/ 3 months observ in US private clinic. Applying for FM and Psych. Should I concentrate on trying to do externships or observs at US hospitals or is passing Step 3 a better move to improve my woeful chances? Thank you once again

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Thank you aProgDirector, Raryn and Mvenus929 for your advice.I realistically don't expect to get many interviews, if any at all. IMG/US Citz/2014 grad/ I failed step 1 once and only got 217 on the retake/ 218 on 2CK/CS pass/ 3 months observ in US private clinic. Applying for FM and Psych. Should I concentrate on trying to do externships or observs at US hospitals or is passing Step 3 a better move to improve my woeful chances? Thank you once again

I doubt Step 3 is going to help. Exam scores are not your strong suit. More US experience, esp if at a teaching hospital with a good LOR, might help. But as you say, your options are limited. If you can't come to the US and stay for interview season, you probably can't commit a good block of time to US clinical rotations.

 

[martin j]

I doubt Step 3 is going to help. Exam scores are not your strong suit. More US experience, esp if at a teaching hospital with a good LOR, might help. But as you say, your options are limited. If you can't come to the US and stay for interview season, you probably can't commit a good block of time to US clinical rotations.

aProgDirector: Your advice is like gold, since you are a PD. I will find a way to make it happen to stay in the US and get USCE at a hospital. This is my only chance. Thank you and God bless.

 

[gabdel]

Do you guys think its a good idea to mention to programs that I have a fiance? Will they look down on you?

 

[gutonc]

Do you guys think its a good idea to mention to programs that I have a fiance? Will they look down on you?

Why would you do this? Not that it matters one way or another, but at what point in the conversation do you expect this to come up? And what relevance would it have to your ability to do the job of a resident?

 

[gabdel]

Why would you do this? Not that it matters one way or another, but at what point in the conversation do you expect this to come up? And what relevance would it have to your ability to do the job of a resident?

When they ask me to tell me about myself, I usually mention that I have a fiance. People tell me it can work both ways. It can make you look stable and mature and on the other hand there can be a conflict of interest in location with the significant other. Im a guy btw.

 

[gutonc]

When they ask me to tell me about myself, I usually mention that I have a fiance. People tell me it can work both ways. It can make you look stable and mature and on the other hand there can be a conflict of interest in location with the significant other. Im a guy btw.

You should probably have 5 or 10 other things "about you" that are above having a fiance to tell them about. Not that she's not important to you, just that it's more of a curiosity than anything else.

It shouldn't matter one way or the other, and they shouldn't be asking you about it at all (protected class and all that). But I agree that it can cut both ways. And you'll never know which way it will cut.

 

[J ROD]

I know one program that matched a guy because they remembered he had a hot Russian wife.....no lie.

 

[CaliAtenza]

The PD at one of my interviews, after the interview was over, told me that he would rank me, but he didn't know where on the list just yet, but that he would rank me. The interview went very well though; as soon as I walked in the door, he told me that he really liked my application, etc. His statement worries me a bit though.

 

[J ROD]

The PD at one of my interviews, after the interview was over, told me that he would rank me, but he didn't know where on the list just yet, but that he would rank me. The interview went very well though; as soon as I walked in the door, he told me that he really liked my application, etc. His statement worries me a bit though.

I would have said hopefully high and got me a laugh. But then again I am probably too laid back.

 

[CaliAtenza]

I would have said hopefully high and got me a laugh. But then again I am probably too laid back.

Haha, yeah I should have said that, but it just escaped my mind at that moment lol.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The PD at one of my interviews, after the interview was over, told me that he would rank me, but he didn't know where on the list just yet, but that he would rank me. The interview went very well though; as soon as I walked in the door, he told me that he really liked my application, etc. His statement worries me a bit though.

I would not read anything into this, at all. It means nothing.

 

[CaliAtenza]

I would not read anything into this, at all. It means nothing.

Alright .

 

[SqEdSaint]

.

 

[epsilonprodigy]

Just curious: what does "ranked to match" even mean, numerically? Obviously if there are 4 slots and you're ranked #3, you are truly ranked to match. Beyond this, is there a rough number you typically need to be above, depending on the tier of the program?

 

[Frederica]

Just curious: what does "ranked to match" even mean, numerically? Obviously if there are 4 slots and you're ranked #3, you are truly ranked to match. Beyond this, is there a rough number you typically need to be above, depending on the tier of the program?

It varies from program to program. We were really disappointed that we matched with our 10th ranked applicant, but there were circumstances beyond our control, which I will not go into. However, we recognized that we needed to change our message to applicants to make ourselves more "attractive." This year we matched with one of our top applicants.

For other programs, matching with their 10th applicant might be considered a success.

 

[mcl]

Just curious: what does "ranked to match" even mean, numerically? Obviously if there are 4 slots and you're ranked #3, you are truly ranked to match. Beyond this, is there a rough number you typically need to be above, depending on the tier of the program?

I think most programs would define "ranked to match" as the applicant's rank being within the program's quota (Ranks #1-4 when the quota is 4). The applicant is guaranteed to match at the program if the applicant ranks the program first. Beyond that, I think it would be more honest for a program to say "likely to match" rather than "ranked to match" and that rank number would vary significantly from program to program and specialty to specialty depending on the size and competitiveness of the program. So don't worry too much about that part--just rank according to where you want to be while giving due consideration to all of the factors that are most important to your success and happiness as a resident. Then trust that the process will work.

 

[gutonc]

Just curious: what does "ranked to match" even mean, numerically? Obviously if there are 4 slots and you're ranked #3, you are truly ranked to match. Beyond this, is there a rough number you typically need to be above, depending on the tier of the program?

The strict definition of ranked to match is "we have X spots and you are ranked <= X."

Unfortunately, many programs interpret that statement as "we have X spots and usually go to Y spots on our rank list. You are ranked <= Y so in a normal year, you will totes match here."

You'll never know what any particular program actually means though.

 

[rms0821]

Hello and thank you so much for making yourself available for our paranoid questions! I have had program directors tell me specifically to let them know if I DO NOT plan to rank them. These are good programs at big university based academic medical centers.

What is the purpose of this?

Thanks

 

[gutonc]

Hello and thank you so much for making yourself available for our paranoid questions! I have had program directors tell me specifically to let them know if I DO NOT plan to rank them. These are good programs at big university based academic medical centers.

What is the purpose of this?

Thanks

You're helping to stroke their ego by allowing them to match "higher" on their list than they would if they'd ranked you (who didn't rank them) higher than where they matched. There's no practical reason to do this unless their compensation/promotion is tied to a statistic as meaningless as that.

 

[gabdel]

So I'm kind of in a dilemma. I am an IMG with only 4 interviews. We all know how competitive it is to match so Im holding to these interviews as tight as I can. Over the past week, one of the programs that I interviewed back in October have constantly sent me personalized love emails saying they want me and how I would be a great fit. Multiple faculty members and the PD have sent me emails over the past week. Now I have ranked this program #2 but I know that from the tone of the email it sounds like they want to see where I ranked them to see how interested I am. I feel like if I send them anything but a "I am going to rank you #1" email they will look at it as Im not as interested so I will drop down a bit from their list. I dont mind at all matching there and I know if I tell them I will be ranking them #1 they are going to rank me near the top. (They have been calling me, emailing me all throughout the season) How do I approach this and convey to them that I reallly want to match there without telling them theyre number 1?

 

[DrKabi]

So I'm kind of in a dilemma. I am an IMG with only 4 interviews. We all know how competitive it is to match so Im holding to these interviews as tight as I can. Over the past week, one of the programs that I interviewed back in October have constantly sent me personalized love emails saying they want me and how I would be a great fit. Multiple faculty members and the PD have sent me emails over the past week. Now I have ranked this program #2 but I know that from the tone of the email it sounds like they want to see where I ranked them to see how interested I am. I feel like if I send them anything but a "I am going to rank you #1" email they will look at it as Im not as interested so I will drop down a bit from their list. I dont mind at all matching there and I know if I tell them I will be ranking them #1 they are going to rank me near the top. (They have been calling me, emailing me all throughout the season) How do I approach this and convey to them that I reallly want to match there without telling them theyre number 1?

So basically you want to eat your cake and have it?

 

[IMPD]

Hello and thank you so much for making yourself available for our paranoid questions! I have had program directors tell me specifically to let them know if I DO NOT plan to rank them. These are good programs at big university based academic medical centers.

What is the purpose of this?

Thanks

This is the weirdest request ever. Why on earth would a PD say this? Terrible idea.

 

[mcl]

So I'm kind of in a dilemma. I am an IMG with only 4 interviews. We all know how competitive it is to match so Im holding to these interviews as tight as I can. Over the past week, one of the programs that I interviewed back in October have constantly sent me personalized love emails saying they want me and how I would be a great fit. Multiple faculty members and the PD have sent me emails over the past week. Now I have ranked this program #2 but I know that from the tone of the email it sounds like they want to see where I ranked them to see how interested I am. I feel like if I send them anything but a "I am going to rank you #1" email they will look at it as Im not as interested so I will drop down a bit from their list. I dont mind at all matching there and I know if I tell them I will be ranking them #1 they are going to rank me near the top. (They have been calling me, emailing me all throughout the season) How do I approach this and convey to them that I reallly want to match there without telling them theyre number 1?

"Thank you very much for your kind email/phone call. I would be honored to match at [program name] and know that I would be very happy and very well trained if I were one of your residents."

 

[rokshana]

So I'm kind of in a dilemma. I am an IMG with only 4 interviews. We all know how competitive it is to match so Im holding to these interviews as tight as I can. Over the past week, one of the programs that I interviewed back in October have constantly sent me personalized love emails saying they want me and how I would be a great fit. Multiple faculty members and the PD have sent me emails over the past week. Now I have ranked this program #2 but I know that from the tone of the email it sounds like they want to see where I ranked them to see how interested I am. I feel like if I send them anything but a "I am going to rank you #1" email they will look at it as Im not as interested so I will drop down a bit from their list. I dont mind at all matching there and I know if I tell them I will be ranking them #1 they are going to rank me near the top. (They have been calling me, emailing me all throughout the season) How do I approach this and convey to them that I reallly want to match there without telling them theyre number 1?

that does border on a match violation.

there is no reason to say anything to them at all or at best a noncommittal thank you, I really liked your program.

 

[epsilonprodigy]

Heh, I think most programs have a "sniffing around" tone in their love letters, because even though they wouldn't ask, of course they're hoping we'll just offer up where we're ranking them! Only human….

Anyway, I'm curious about the dynamics of ranking: I assume it comes down to the PD, but how much pull does the chairman have? Happily, our chairman loves me and has blatantly told people that he hopes I stay at my home program. Unfortunately, the PD doesn't know me as well due to him being on LOA during most of my clinical time. I want to think the chairman's vote will seal the deal, but how much does it matter?

 

[22031 Alum]

Heh, I think most programs have a "sniffing around" tone in their love letters, because even though they wouldn't ask, of course they're hoping we'll just offer up where we're ranking them! Only human….

Anyway, I'm curious about the dynamics of ranking: I assume it comes down to the PD, but how much pull does the chairman have? Happily, our chairman loves me and has blatantly told people that he hopes I stay at my home program. Unfortunately, the PD doesn't know me as well due to him being on LOA during most of my clinical time. I want to think the chairman's vote will seal the deal, but how much does it matter?

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but how many times do the words "It varies by program" have to be said before it comes across that nobody has the answers you seek??

In my experience in ob/gyn, program director far, far outranks the department chair when it comes to making the rank list. It's never even been close. Department chairs have a lot on their plate when it comes to answering to the Dean of the Medical School and/or CEO of the hospital/hospital system. There's a degree of overseeing the program director to make sure the interview and ranking process happens the way it's supposed to (ie full interview days, not ending up going to the scramble). But giving input into how individual applicants are ranked is too low on the list of priorities for a chair to be involved.

Maybe somebody else will come along and say that their experience has been different, which would line up more with what you want. No way to know which category your program falls into, of course.

 

[22031 Alum]

This really isn't the case in surgery, so again your greater point of "it varies" stands.

But anyways - the chair is the boss. They write the PD's paychecks and hire/fire them. If the chair wants a candidate, they will get the candidate.

Since OP is applying in Surgery I hope your version is accurate for her. It's just that I've never had a chair be involved enough in the day-to-day to even really meet individual candidates, let alone want one. This has been at academic powerhouse programs where the Chairs have been <20% clinical, and less academic regional campus-type programs where the Chairs have been based far away, at the "mothership."

 

[Mbeas]

Happily, our chairman loves me and has blatantly told people that he hopes I stay at my home....

That's great, but I wouldn't read into it too much.

I've decided not to read into anything too much because it'll drive you crazy.

You think I'm the "best candidate" and would be the "perfect fit"? Excellent.

No response to my interest emails? Excellent.

There's nothing we can do at this point.

 

[22031 Alum]

That's great, but I wouldn't read into it too much.

I've decided not to read into anything too much because it'll drive you crazy.

You think I'm the "best candidate" and would be the "perfect fit"? Excellent.

No response to my interest emails? Excellent.

There's nothing we can do at this point.

This is the best attitude to have. For your own sanity and that of others. Unfortunately, "reading too much" into every little thing is the name of the game. As long as all the neuroticism is coming out anonymously online, and not in real life where it may actually be harmful, I'm actually okay with it.

 

[epsilonprodigy]

This is the best attitude to have. For your own sanity and that of others. Unfortunately, "reading too much" into every little thing is the name of the game. As long as all the neuroticism is coming out anonymously online, and not in real life where it may actually be harmful, I'm actually okay with it.

Sure, that's the whole point of asking questions online. Obviously I realize almost everything varies by program, but since we applicants know essentially zero about the rules of the game, I always figure it's worth asking anonymously online. It's unlikely to hurt anything, and hey, maybe there are a few "rules of thumb" out there. I was just curious.

Not sure how it is at other programs, but our chair, while non-clinical, is very involved in research and education, and makes a point of speaking with us often.

 

[mvenus929]

Anyway, I'm curious about the dynamics of ranking: I assume it comes down to the PD, but how much pull does the chairman have? Happily, our chairman loves me and has blatantly told people that he hopes I stay at my home program. Unfortunately, the PD doesn't know me as well due to him being on LOA during most of my clinical time. I want to think the chairman's vote will seal the deal, but how much does it matter?

Our chair is very involved and knows us all and works extensively with medical students as well. That said, he has made it obvious to me that when it comes to the residency program, the PD has more power than he does.

 

[IMPD]

Since OP is applying in Surgery I hope your version is accurate for her. It's just that I've never had a chair be involved enough in the day-to-day to even really meet individual candidates, let alone want one. This has been at academic powerhouse programs where the Chairs have been <20% clinical, and less academic regional campus-type programs where the Chairs have been based far away, at the "mothership."

It's an interesting question about what the relative distribution of influence is in different departments.

So, let's say that there is NO scenario where PDs don't have the majority of the influence on the ROL. So, the PD gets somewhere between 51% and 100%.

Could the Chair have as much as 49%? Doubtful.

My experience is that my PC actually has significant influence on the process. She has met all the applicants (none of my APDs have done that) and she has interacted with them in a way that tells a lot. So, let's give her 5%.

My senior APDs both did a lot of interviewing this year and by the end of the season would say "take this one, don't take that one". They have a lot of influence, but don't see every single candidate. So, let's give them 5% each. 10% total.

My junior interviewers actually have not much influence because, frankly, they are just not good enough at interviewing yet. 1.5% each, say a total of 6%.

My Chief residents/residents who have dinner with the applicants. Hard to rate this, but they will, on occasion, have some crucial piece of information. Let's give all residents 2%.

My Chair actually has met all the in-house candidates and the Chair's style is to comment only on one or two candidates. I'm interviewing and ranking a LOT of candidates, so in my case, the Chair's influence is very small, maybe 1%.

That leaves me 86%. I should also mention some other categories of people.

Current faculty who I don't like and/or don't really interact with: I almost totally ignore their thoughts. 0.1%
Current faculty that I do like and/or work with on a regular basis: Can possibly help an applicant. 1%
Faculty from other schools who have been emailing/calling me: Almost the most annoying people to deal with since etiquette requires polite responses. -0.5%
Practicing physicians who graduated from my program 20 years ago, have no contact with the Department except now their nephew is applying: The *most* annoying people I deal with and almost never help an applicant. -5% to a maximum of 0.001%