Chances for MD vs. DO

[786doctor]

Hi all, I'm in need of some advice.

I have a 3.0 GPA, and 32 MCAT. Excellent research with publication(s). I have average to above average clinical shadowing/volunteering experiences and am disadvantaged (but not an URM). Oh and an upward trend in GPA, from a top 20 liberal art, for what it's worth. I am waiting to hear back from SMP programs (Georgetown and Drexel, really hoping for Gtown though), and also I am applying to medical schools this summer.

I have listed the 2 possible actions I see myself possibly making. Please tell me which you think is best or what you think I should do.
1. If admitted to Georgetown's SMP, attend and apply to med schools the year of (so this summer). I am a NY resident. Would this increase my chances at any of the SUNYs, Hofstra or NYMC?? Or is my uGPA so low that I would have to wait to get a year of grades from the SMP and then apply? I don't think retaking the MCAT is necessary. This is so expensive though, I don't have this kind of money
2. Stay at my job, take classes at night after work, and apply to MD schools. I know my chances here are slim. I would also apply to DO programs. Reason I wanted to take classes is so I can maybe send an update letter saying "hey I'm taking these courses and got this grade," hoping they would look at my application and also to support my upward trend.

Please let me know what you think the best option is. Thanks in advance!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[mcmed315]

What is your science GPA?

 

[786doctor]

3.0

 

[mcmed315]

Personally, I would go with choice #1 but I would wait a year until my GPA is boosted. You MCAT score is competitive but your GPA diminishes that value. Why would you go with choice 2 (out of curiosity)? Choice #2 may delay your process of going to medical school.
Another option is to apply to DO schools when apps open up in June. If you apply early you could have a good chance of getting in.

 

[Goro]

Not with a 3.0 GPA, unless there were two solid years pf all A's in there. A 32 is well below avg for the research powerhouses as well

but perhaps more research-focused schools would look at your application more holistically.

OP, if you're boning for the MD degree, do a post-bac and SMP and ace them.

DO programs will be more amenable, but if you have any F/D/C science coursework, retake those and use grade replacement.

 

[786doctor]

Thanks @mcmed315, @eternelle , and @Goro for your input!
So yesterday shortly after I posted, I found out I was accepted to Georgetown's SMP starting in August! @Goro, do you think I need a post-bacc before doing the SMP even though I already got into the SMP? Does my uGPA and sGPA need to be raised even if I do well in the SMP?

Also, @mcmed315, the reason I would consider option 2 is because I'm a disadvantaged applicant and I don't have the means to attend Georgetown's SMP, and taking so many loans before medical school is a scary thought considering medical school itself will bury me like 200+K in debt. I work and give the money to my family to help pay bills, and although I am not making a lot, it makes a difference and makes it easier on my parents. I guess I'm stuck between being selfish (and some would probably say foolish), taking out a bunch of loans before medical school so that I can be an MD vs. saving up some money, knowing I have an okay chance at DO schools (where my GPAs would be a little higher than 3.1ish because of retakes), and a 0 to less than 1% chance at MD schools.

 

[mcmed315]

I completely understand. I am not disadvantaged to the degree that I can claim that as a status but I am financially strained as well. I graduated from NYU and went to a post-bacc program at West Chester University in Pennsylvania all while being a Delaware resident. I'm practically married to Sallie Mae. I actually ran out of undergraduate loans that I could borrow from the government/state/banks and had to pay for my own classes which turned out to be a whopping $4k/class. I needed to find some flexibility to juggle classes, research, volunteering, etc. so I started working at nights, tutoring. It still wasn't enough. It never is. But it comes down to the big picture. The fact that you've applied to SMP means that you have the means of going there. If you didn't and knew you could, in no way, support yourself financially, you wouldn't have applied. That being said, I think bottom line is that you have to boost your GPA. I'm not familiar with how grad programs contribute to GPA but if the classes provided are a GPA booster, then do it. Whether it's a post-bacc program or SMP, you need to boost your GPA.

If you start SMP and applied to medical school this summer, how would you attend? Would you drop out of SMP and attend medical school, if accepted?

 

[786doctor]

I don't think the fact that I applied to an SMP means I have the means to go there, but I agree I do need to increase my GPA for MD schools especially.
SMP's are not generally a GPA booster, but they are a new GPA. Georgetown is pretty well known and reputable from what I've heard and some schools are very receptive to students who do well in GT SMP.

That being said, if I do attend the SMP, the timeline would look like this.
Submit AMCAS and DO school applications when they open up (around june), try to get all my secondaries in before starting at Georgetown in mid-August, GT sends update letters to schools I applied to letting them know my grades, and hopefully I get some interviews/acceptance while I am enrolled at GT. Finish @ GT in July 216, start medical school August 2016.

 

[Goro]

No and no.

do you think I need a post-bacc before doing the SMP even though I already got into the SMP? Does my uGPA and sGPA need to be raised even if I do well in the SMP?

 

[786doctor]

How much would I need to improve my GPA for a decent shot at DO schools? Like Touro-NY and NYCOM?

 

[786doctor]

Okay so I've made a list of MD schools to apply to. I think I will apply to MD schools and DO schools. I am still not sure if I will go to Georgetown's program but I will be applying to these schools regardless.

Schools in NY
NYMC
Hofstra
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Upstate
SUNY Stony Brook
Albany

Schools outside of NY (not very sure about OOS schools so will need major help from y'all on this!)
Drexel
Rosalind Franklin
Creighton
EVMS
Emory
Quinipiac
Dartmouth
George Washington
Howard
Loyola
Meharry
Mercer
Morehouse
Commonwealth
Tufts
Wake Forest

DO Schools in NY, PA and NJ.

 

[tar_heel]

Just glancing at your list, if you're not URM you're going to have to tough time with Howard/Meharry/Morehouse, unless you have a very strong record of working with underserved populations (and even then it might be an uphill battle). If you're not a Georgia resident, take off Mercer.

 

[786doctor]

Just glancing at your list, if you're not URM you're going to have to tough time with Howard/Meharry/Morehouse, unless you have a very strong record of working with underserved populations (and even then it might be an uphill battle). If you're not a Georgia resident, take off Mercer.

Thanks for the response!

Actually, I am not a URM, I am a minority that is neither underserved or over served in medicine because our population isn't very significant actually lol. But I am from an underserved area, grew up in one for the majority of my life and I believe my goals to be in line with those schools' missions, particularly Howard, so even though I'm not Black (or Hispanic or Native American, or another URM) I put those schools on the list hoping they reciprocate my sentiments.

I will take off Mercer however!

 

[candbgirl]

If you do the SMP you understand that you have to crush it- like a 3.7+ GPA- right?
Imo I think you may be auto screened out from many If not all of those schools. I think you should focus on a DIY grade replacement program and then apply DO only once you have raised your GPAs to 3.3+! Your GPAs are too low for any MD program and not much better for DO!

 

[786doctor]

If you do the SMP you understand that you have to crush it- like a 3.7+ GPA- right?
Imo I think you may be auto screened out from many If not all of those schools. I think you should focus on a DIY grade replacement program and then apply DO only once you have raised your GPAs to 3.3+! Your GPAs are too low for any MD program and not much better for DO!

Auto screened as in not receiving a secondary?
Also, while I agree that I have to crush the SMP, and I certainly will work my hardest to get a 3.7+ GPA, I don't think that's required to get into an MD school. From what I have heard of kids in the program, anything from a 3.5 or higher from the SMP, which is quite competitive and well-recognized program, will probably get you into an MD school. Even students with lower GPAs get in.
Thanks for your response!

 

[candbgirl]

Oh you might get secondaries since many schools are very happy to receive your secondary app fee. But after that don't count on getting interviews with a 3.0 GPA. As to the SMP gpa believe what you want. Do you have the online MSAR? If not you really should buy it and use it for research in selecting your target schools. Find schools that have 10th percentile averages around your 3.0. I really don't think you'll find many MD schools. Have you investigated the DO grade replacement option? It would be far easier and much cheaper to go this route.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

 

[NYCdude]

I don't know if you have much of a chance at any M.D. program. I got straight rejections from Quinnipiac, Hofstra, and "lower-tier" schools with a similar MCAT and a way better GPA (>3.6)

I would take a semester of science courses and then apply D.O. I think you'd have a great shot at Touro or NYCOM (for Touro you need a D.O. LOR).

 

[786doctor]

Oh you might get secondaries since many schools are very happy to receive your secondary app fee. But after that don't count on getting interviews with a 3.0 GPA. As to the SMP gpa believe what you want. Do you have the online MSAR? If not you really should buy it and use it for research in selecting your target schools. Find schools that have 10th percentile averages around your 3.0. I really don't think you'll find many MD schools. Have you investigated the DO grade replacement option? It would be far easier and much cheaper to go this route.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

Lol very true about the secondaries. Idk, I'm a little more optimistic when it comes to getting interviews, especially if I can do well in the SMP.

Also, out of curiosity, and to know what to think of what I've been told about the SMP GPAs from others, are you a SMPer (as they are called)?

Also @NYCdude thanks for your input!

 

[candbgirl]

Not a SMPer but 2 of my friends were several years ago! Both went to Georgetown. One did really well and was accepted to 3 med schools! The other did okay but was not accepted. She gave up after two app cycles. She now sells med devices. But they both waited to apply until after they finished the SMP. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[itsogre]

Hi OP,

I would suggest you complete the SMP before you apply. There is a chance you can get in with a 3.0 (or at least get interviews), but honestly it's not looking good. If you do get interviews, you're very likely to be waitlisted/straight up rejected with a 3.0 sGPA. Do well in the Gtown SMP (strong 3.7+). This way you won't be a re-applicant, and with the bonus of stellar SMP performance and maybe a higher MCAT, you could expand your list to more selective schools that "value reinvention" as the phrase goes.

also, please don't feel guilty about not supporting your family while you're doing an SMP. You can help them so much more a few years from now when you're a doctor. Think of your education as an investment that will yield high returns for you and your family in a few years.

 

[786doctor]

Hi OP,

I would suggest you complete the SMP before you apply. There is a chance you can get in with a 3.0 (or at least get interviews), but honestly it's not looking good. If you do get interviews, you're very likely to be waitlisted/straight up rejected with a 3.0 sGPA. Do well in the Gtown SMP (strong 3.7+). This way you won't be a re-applicant, and with the bonus of stellar SMP performance and maybe a higher MCAT, you could expand your list to more selective schools that "value reinvention" as the phrase goes.

also, please don't feel guilty about not supporting your family while you're doing an SMP. You can help them so much more a few years from now when you're a doctor. Think of your education as an investment that will yield high returns for you and your family in a few years.

Thanks for the encouraging words, I will certainly consider waiting to have completed the SMP before applying. Georgetown really encourages people to apply the year of but that advice is probably for people with higher GPAs to begin with (only 50% of students that apply year of get in somewhere).

 

[minion1992]

Hi OP. It is great that you got into Georgetown SMP but I think you have to be realistic about what your family needs are and what it costs to get a medical education. I am not sure what your family situation is, but based on what I have seen: you needing to support them means you are a provider. If SMP does not give you substantial aid i don't think you should take it and consider just applying to DO schools. SMP is expensive plus you are now not a provider for your family. On top of this while you are in med school you are not going to be a provider for many years while you have debt. At least for 6 years after med school. If your family can manage with you being in debt for 10 plus years then it's ok, but really think about this. A lot of SDN people are telling you to go for it when their family situation is much different than yours or they are in the process of taking in that debt without yet paying it off.

If your gpa was higher and your family didn't make much money I would say apply to MD top schools because they have real money, but these other schools don't have much need based aid.

MD like any higher education is indeed an investment but it might not be the proper investment for you and it might not pay out. Please look at the finances and make a spreadsheet of what your debt will be out of do/md school and see how long it will take for you to pay it back...it might surprise you.

 

[Vain Brother]

Auto screened as in not receiving a secondary?
Also, while I agree that I have to crush the SMP, and I certainly will work my hardest to get a 3.7+ GPA, I don't think that's required to get into an MD school. From what I have heard of kids in the program, anything from a 3.5 or higher from the SMP, which is quite competitive and well-recognized program, will probably get you into an MD school. Even students with lower GPAs get in.
Thanks for your response!

you're in for a really rude awakening. plan to do well or don't waste your money

 

[786doctor]

you're in for a really rude awakening. plan to do well or don't waste your money

LOL