DO SCHOOLS w/ COMPETITIVE RESIDENCY??

[Dr. Bones123]

Hello everybody,

The title basically sums it up. My story is as follows, I have a 4.0 GPA, but took the MCAT at the wrong time (a year earlier than planned because of a catastrophic family incident and I just wanted to get it over with), I ended up with a 505. Before the MCAT I had only taken Bio 1 and the basic chemistry courses, not even biochemistry so I did a lot of self-studying in the three months I forced myself to take the MCAT. Not terrible, but not good either, leaving me competitive for DO schools, but not for MD, so I only applied to DO schools.

Besides the point, I am currently sitting on a handful of acceptances thank God (listed below), but I am still waiting on a couple of other schools back:

William Carey

ACOM

ARCOM

WVCOM

Des Moine

CCOM

Campbell

Out of these schools, and other schools also, do you think I have a chance at getting an Ortho Residency. I understand the competitive nature, but I feel I have what it takes. I really just want to know which DO school is the best at preparing its students for the exam and has good research opportunities for its students. Thanks for everything and have a wonderful day.

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[Angus Avagadro]

Hello everybody,

The title basically sums it up. My story is as follows, I have a 4.0 GPA, but took the MCAT at the wrong time (a year earlier than planned because of a catastrophic family incident and I just wanted to get it over with), I ended up with a 505. Before the MCAT I had only taken Bio 1 and the basic chemistry courses, not even biochemistry so I did a lot of self-studying in the three months I forced myself to take the MCAT. Not terrible, but not good either, leaving me competitive for DO schools, but not for MD, so I only applied to DO schools.

Besides the point, I am currently sitting on a handful of acceptances thank God (listed below), but I am still waiting on a couple of other schools back:

William Carey

ACOM

ARCOM

WVCOM

Des Moine

CCOM

Campbell

Out of these schools, and other schools also, do you think I have a chance at getting an Ortho Residency. I understand the competitive nature, but I feel I have what it takes. I really just want to know which DO school is the best at preparing its students for the exam and has good research opportunities for its students. Thanks for everything and have a wonderful day.

How certain are you that you want to Ortho? I say this because I have had several advisees start school with this idea, only to change. Some because of grades, others because changing interest. One was number 1 in the class, but decided on Gen Surg. Have you shadowed with an ortho or worked with any? I think most established schools have students matching Ortho each year.

 

[Doctoscope]

CCOM and DMU probably have more connections/resources due to their history. But CCOM is disgustingly expensive, so DMU is probably the better choice.

 

[aml868]

Check the 2021-2022 William Carey thread for some good info on the school! Some current students posted on it

 

[deleted1113995]

CCOM is the best school on your list. Tuition is high but you are paying for access to better rotations sites in 3rd/4th year than all of the other schools on this list. In terms of reputation & history, DMU is on par with CCOM since both have been around for over 100 years, however CCOM will give you far more opportunities for research (5 MD schools and the entire Chicago metro to scout for research openings vs. the city of Des Moines... you should get the picture). Ultimately the decision is yours and some people may not be able to justify the cost, but if I were someone gunning for a competitive specialty like ortho, I would be sure to align myself with the best resources and opportunities. CCOM will give you the most resources to work with by far, but you better be able to trust your work ethic and take advantage of what it gives you.

 

[Dr. Bones123]

How certain are you that you want to Ortho? I say this because I have had several advisees start school with this idea, only to change. Some because of grades, others because changing interest. One was number 1 in the class, but decided on Gen Surg. Have you shadowed with an ortho or worked with any? I think most established schools have students matching Ortho each year.

Yes! I shadowed an orthopedic and even got treated by one because I was in athletics all my life and got pretty bad injuries along the way

I feel I can really connect to the field and my future patients because I understand how devil siting some injuries could feel like because I’ve either had it or seen others experience it

It’s something I’m really passionate about and hope I can reach one day

 

[Dr. Bones123]

CCOM is the best school on your list. Tuition is high but you are paying for access to better rotations sites in 3rd/4th year than all of the other schools on this list. In terms of reputation & history, DMU is on par with CCOM since both have been around for over 100 years, however CCOM will give you far more opportunities for research (5 MD schools and the entire Chicago metro to scout for research openings vs. the city of Des Moines... you should get the picture). Ultimately the decision is yours and some people may not be able to justify the cost, but if I were someone gunning for a competitive specialty like ortho, I would be sure to align myself with the best resources and opportunities. CCOM will give you the most resources to work with by far, but you better be able to trust your work ethic and take advantage of what it gives you.

Do you know where I can find the CCOM match list? I try looking all over their website and can’t find anything

But I really do appreciate your feedback!! I’m definitely going to be taking this into consideration, thanks again 🙏

 

[Dr. Bones123]

Check the 2021-2022 William Carey thread for some good info on the school! Some current students posted on it

Will do! Thanks for your feedback

 

[deleted1113995]

Do you know where I can find the CCOM match list? I try looking all over their website and can’t find anything

But I really do appreciate your feedback!! I’m definitely going to be taking this into consideration, thanks again 🙏

Once you get an II there should be an “Interview Information” tab on your MWU portal - where you scheduled your interview. Click on this tab and I think they have the match lists for both 2020 and 2021

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Yes! I shadowed an orthopedic and even got treated by one because I was in athletics all my life and got pretty bad injuries along the way

I feel I can really connect to the field and my future patients because I understand how devil siting some injuries could feel like because I’ve either had it or seen others experience it

It’s something I’m really passionate about and hope I can reach one day

I understand. My son started out that way, wanted to be a hand surgeon.Realized he didn't really want to be the one holding the knife. He now is finishing a FM Sports Med Fellowship and quite happy. Regardless of how things work out, Good luck and Best Wishes!

 

[drstranger]

I will say that CCOM does not provide an advantage for the price you pay. The major universities nearby will be a benefit for research at CCOM but that does not justify the 70k+ price tag. @TheBoneDoctah is a DO ortho resident and in this tread. They talk about what it takes to match, the biggest thing in the DO world is doing audition rotations at programs. These are basically tryouts and most DO ortho interviews come from these interactions and have little to do with the school you attend. Most DO schools even new schools have 1-2 ortho matches every year, you just have to play the game.

 

[deleted1113995]

I will say that CCOM does not provide an advantage for the price you pay. The major universities nearby will be a benefit for research at CCOM but that does not justify the 70k+ price tag. @TheBoneDoctah is a DO ortho resident and in this tread. They talk about what it takes to match, the biggest thing in the DO world is doing audition rotations at programs. These are basically tryouts and most DO ortho interviews come from these interactions and have little to do with the school you attend. Most DO schools even new schools have 1-2 ortho matches every year, you just have to play the game.

I understand what you are trying to get at. To a degree you do have to “play the game”. However, you are overlooking the fact that a lot, if not most, of the rotations at CCOM are in hospitals with residency programs giving you the opportunity to do a lot of audition rotations and increasing your chances to network in the Chicagoland area. A lot of DO schools will have their 3rd and 4th years rotate at hospitals without residency programs or at least far fewer residency programs than you would have at CCOM. Again nothing is a given and you will still need to outperform the MDs because you are a DO. But in the end, it still gives MORE resources than other schools to build a competitive application. It all comes down to how hard you want to work in med school.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

I understand what you are trying to get at. To a degree you do have to “play the game”. However, you are overlooking the fact that a lot, if not most, of the rotations at CCOM are in hospitals with residency programs giving you the opportunity to do a lot of audition rotations and increasing your chances to network in the Chicagoland area. A lot of DO schools will have their 3rd and 4th years rotate at hospitals without residency programs or at least far fewer residency programs than you would have at CCOM. Again nothing is a given and you will still need to outperform the MDs because you are a DO. But in the end, it still gives MORE resources than other schools to build a competitive application. It all comes down to how hard you want to work in med school.

This is true to a point, however for ortho specifically it really does not matter where you go to school. No one cares. You are going to need to branch out OUTSIDE of the Chicago area to do auditions. Auditions at former ACGME programs are 99% of the time going to be a waste of a month. How well you do on your exams 95% depends on YOU. There are students who go to Harvard who get 215 Steps and students at the new DO schools coming out with 265s. The main thing with DO ortho, like stated above, is the audition. Are you cool to work with? Are you teachable? Are you someone we can hang with for 5 years? Hard working? THESE are the things that matter...not where you went to school. Again, when auditioning for DO ortho...you are going to need to go outside of Chicago likely. Sure, you can have a "home program" but most DO schools have a program that is close that basically functions as their home program. Overall, my advice is to go to the cheaper school. We have students rotating from all those schools on your list, yet no one cares where they are going to school.

 

[drstranger]

This is true to a point, however for ortho specifically it really does not matter where you go to school. No one cares. You are going to need to branch out OUTSIDE of the Chicago area to do auditions. Auditions at former ACGME programs are 99% of the time going to be a waste of a month. How well you do on your exams 95% depends on YOU. There are students who go to Harvard who get 215 Steps and students at the new DO schools coming out with 265s. The main thing with DO ortho, like stated above, is the audition. Are you cool to work with? Are you teachable? Are you someone we can hang with for 5 years? Hard working? THESE are the things that matter...not where you went to school. Again, when auditioning for DO ortho...you are going to need to go outside of Chicago likely. Sure, you can have a "home program" but most DO schools have a program that is close that basically functions as their home program. Overall, my advice is to go to the cheaper school. We have students rotating from all those schools on your list, yet no one cares where they are going to school.

Sorry for the tag, I know you are busy but always appreciate the advice and knowledge

 

[Goro]

Hello everybody,

The title basically sums it up. My story is as follows, I have a 4.0 GPA, but took the MCAT at the wrong time (a year earlier than planned because of a catastrophic family incident and I just wanted to get it over with), I ended up with a 505. Before the MCAT I had only taken Bio 1 and the basic chemistry courses, not even biochemistry so I did a lot of self-studying in the three months I forced myself to take the MCAT. Not terrible, but not good either, leaving me competitive for DO schools, but not for MD, so I only applied to DO schools.

Besides the point, I am currently sitting on a handful of acceptances thank God (listed below), but I am still waiting on a couple of other schools back:

William Carey

ACOM

ARCOM

WVCOM

Des Moine

CCOM

Campbell

Out of these schools, and other schools also, do you think I have a chance at getting an Ortho Residency. I understand the competitive nature, but I feel I have what it takes. I really just want to know which DO school is the best at preparing its students for the exam and has good research opportunities for its students. Thanks for everything and have a wonderful day.

It's not the school, but the student. I can't recommend ARCOM.

 

[YCAGA]

You really shot yourself in the foot applying only DO with a 4.0 and wanting to do ortho, no pun intended. But seriously, this is some concerning decision making. You took the MCAT without taking the vast majority of the prerequisites and actually did okay…good enough for some MD schools even. So that is bad decision one, but everyone makes mistakes, and I am also the kind of person who would try to self study for the MCAT without the prereqs, so I get it. But the much bigger mistake is doubling down and not realizing that if you got a 505 with bad preparation, you clearly can do significantly better. Then you applied DO without researching how much harder ortho will be from a DO school…look at charting outcomes if you don’t believe me. Not impossible, but harder.

Anyways, I say that not to pile on but to hopefully make you take a step back and be more deliberate with your actions. Get-there-itis is not going to get you to match ortho. People matching ortho are the kind of people that are totally okay with practicing ortho for 27 years instead of general surgery for 30 years if it means two extra gap years and in research year after M3.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

CCOM is the best school on your list. Tuition is high but you are paying for access to better rotations sites in 3rd/4th year than all of the other schools on this list. In terms of reputation & history, DMU is on par with CCOM since both have been around for over 100 years, however CCOM will give you far more opportunities for research (5 MD schools and the entire Chicago metro to scout for research openings vs. the city of Des Moines... you should get the picture). Ultimately the decision is yours and some people may not be able to justify the cost, but if I were someone gunning for a competitive specialty like ortho, I would be sure to align myself with the best resources and opportunities. CCOM will give you the most resources to work with by far, but you better be able to trust your work ethic and take advantage of what it gives you.

I understand what you are trying to get at. To a degree you do have to “play the game”. However, you are overlooking the fact that a lot, if not most, of the rotations at CCOM are in hospitals with residency programs giving you the opportunity to do a lot of audition rotations and increasing your chances to network in the Chicagoland area. A lot of DO schools will have their 3rd and 4th years rotate at hospitals without residency programs or at least far fewer residency programs than you would have at CCOM. Again nothing is a given and you will still need to outperform the MDs because you are a DO. But in the end, it still gives MORE resources than other schools to build a competitive application. It all comes down to how hard you want to work in med school.

CCOM is not worth that price tag. Those “resources” you are talking about don’t really play out when you compare match lists from CCOM to any other established DO school.

 

[Dr. Bones123]

I understand. My son started out that way, wanted to be a hand surgeon.Realized he didn't really want to be the one holding the knife. He now is finishing a FM Sports Med Fellowship and quite happy. Regardless of how things work out, Good luck and Best Wish

I am so happy to hear that for your son! I am still keeping that option wide and open for me as well because a lot of things can change in medical school and our perspective on certain topics. I will keep this in the back of my mind always. If you don't mind me asking, how does your son like the fellowship so far and if its hard to get into?

 

[Dr. Bones123]

I will say that CCOM does not provide an advantage for the price you pay. The major universities nearby will be a benefit for research at CCOM but that does not justify the 70k+ price tag. @TheBoneDoctah is a DO ortho resident and in this tread. They talk about what it takes to match, the biggest thing in the DO world is doing audition rotations at programs. These are basically tryouts and most DO ortho interviews come from these interactions and have little to do with the school you attend. Most DO schools even new schools have 1-2 ortho matches every year, you just have to play the game.

I really appreciate you sending me to this thread! I am definitely going to be taking a deep dive into this. Thanks again and have a wonderful day

 

[Dr. Bones123]

This is true to a point, however for ortho specifically it really does not matter where you go to school. No one cares. You are going to need to branch out OUTSIDE of the Chicago area to do auditions. Auditions at former ACGME programs are 99% of the time going to be a waste of a month. How well you do on your exams 95% depends on YOU. There are students who go to Harvard who get 215 Steps and students at the new DO schools coming out with 265s. The main thing with DO ortho, like stated above, is the audition. Are you cool to work with? Are you teachable? Are you someone we can hang with for 5 years? Hard working? THESE are the things that matter...not where you went to school. Again, when auditioning for DO ortho...you are going to need to go outside of Chicago likely. Sure, you can have a "home program" but most DO schools have a program that is close that basically functions as their home program. Overall, my advice is to go to the cheaper school. We have students rotating from all those schools on your list, yet no one cares where they are going to school.

I am so honored for you to be commenting on my thread lol. Thanks so much for taking the time to clarify this for me, I really am grateful. I'm definitely going to be taking your advice to heart and just try my best in medical school and reach out to multiple hospitals to try to do audition rotations.

So do you suggest a school that leaves more open electives during the third and fourth year so I have the opportunity to seek out other hospitals outside of the location where the med school is located to do as many auditions as possible?

 

[Dr. Bones123]

You really shot yourself in the foot applying only DO with a 4.0 and wanting to do ortho, no pun intended. But seriously, this is some concerning decision making. You took the MCAT without taking the vast majority of the prerequisites and actually did okay…good enough for some MD schools even. So that is bad decision one, but everyone makes mistakes, and I am also the kind of person who would try to self study for the MCAT without the prereqs, so I get it. But the much bigger mistake is doubling down and not realizing that if you got a 505 with bad preparation, you clearly can do significantly better. Then you applied DO without researching how much harder ortho will be from a DO school…look at charting outcomes if you don’t believe me. Not impossible, but harder.

Anyways, I say that not to pile on but to hopefully make you take a step back and be more deliberate with your actions. Get-there-itis is not going to get you to match ortho. People matching ortho are the kind of people that are totally okay with practicing ortho for 27 years instead of general surgery for 30 years if it means two extra gap years and in research year after M3.

I completely understand what you are coming from. I would have applied to MD but I felt they would have screened me out because looking at MSAR I was always placing in the lower quartiles to their average student even though I have a good GPA. I know I am a hard worker and will do whatever it takes and that's what matters to me. If I had a 3.0 GPA and terrible MCAT and posted this same post, then I feel...yeah I would have no shot at orthopedics. I'm just gonna put my face down, push through, and try my best. Thanks for the advice and your perspective

 

[Dral]

I completely understand what you are coming from. I would have applied to MD but I felt they would have screened me out because looking at MSAR I was always placing in the lower quartiles to their average student even though I have a good GPA. I know I am a hard worker and will do whatever it takes and that's what matters to me. If I had a 3.0 GPA and terrible MCAT and posted this same post, then I feel...yeah I would have no shot at orthopedics. I'm just gonna put my face down, push through, and try my best. Thanks for the advice and your perspective

I felt the same way as YCAGA when I read your initial post. What's done is done and it doesn't look good to give up an acceptance to reapply so you shall forge forward.

I try my hardest to post helpful things here and I know this isn't helpful to you, but maybe someone else in a similar situation will see it:

People on the premed forums ask about MCAT retakes all the time. Six of the first 10 threads on the MCAT forum are about retakes. You are the epitome of someone who almost certainly would have improved and been in perfect range for MD if you got that MCAT score up around the 510 or so range or higher. I feel that would have been so doable in your situation....and the current situation is that MD sets you up better for an Ortho spot (or spots in most competitive specialties).

Some people do want to get on with things and not lose a year of attending salary. I get that. If you wanted to go into primary care then get it done, go DO, and never look back. These competitive specialties are still an uphill climb though. Anyway, with a 4.0 I have confidence that you are the type of student who can excel. Best of luck and if you work at it, I'm sure you will have a good chance of getting into Ortho if you stick with that decision throughout med school.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I am so happy to hear that for your son! I am still keeping that option wide and open for me as well because a lot of things can change in medical school and our perspective on certain topics. I will keep this in the back of my mind always. If you don't mind me asking, how does your son like the fellowship so far and if its hard to get into?

It's better for him than the fellow last year when most sporting events were canceled due to Covid. This year, when teaching students and residents, he has found most have very little or ANY one on one patient interactions and H&P skills. This slows the teaching process for him considerably as he must interview and examine patients with them. As for the fellowship, it's a combo of attending local high school and local college events. Also a combo of working with FM Sports Docs, Ortho Sports Docs in the office and he attends surgical procedures in the OR. He also gets training in office ultrasound. He generally enjoys it, only complaint is they were slow to allow him to do procedures, which is quite understandable since he was not from their home program and didn't know him.. He generally is satisfied with his extra year of training.
Sorry I didn't mention this. It's getting competitive, like all things in medicine. He matched his 4th choice, despite rotating and getting letters from local sports docs. He does believe Covid and not having travel expenses going to interviews due to Zoom interviews has made all programs more competitive. Good luck and Best wishes!

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

I am so honored for you to be commenting on my thread lol. Thanks so much for taking the time to clarify this for me, I really am grateful. I'm definitely going to be taking your advice to heart and just try my best in medical school and reach out to multiple hospitals to try to do audition rotations.

So do you suggest a school that leaves more open electives during the third and fourth year so I have the opportunity to seek out other hospitals outside of the location where the med school is located to do as many auditions as possible?

Yes, some schools will limit their students to only doing 3 ortho rotations (which REALLY hurts ortho applicants). Other schools, like mine, allow you to basically do as many as you need (so I was able to do 6...and almost did 7). Third year does not matter as much as 4th year. If you can, once you get to this point, you should try and do 1-2 ortho rotations in 3rd year at places you do not really care about so you can get some ortho exposure before hitting the audition trail 4th year.

 

[YCAGA]

Yes, some schools will limit their students to only doing 3 ortho rotations (which REALLY hurts ortho applicants). Other schools, like mine, allow you to basically do as many as you need (so I was able to do 6...and almost did 7). Third year does not matter as much as 4th year. If you can, once you get to this point, you should try and do 1-2 ortho rotations in 3rd year at places you do not really care about so you can get some ortho exposure before hitting the audition trail 4th year.

This has changed with COVID :/ many schools are recommending only 1 away rotation and giving professionalism violations if you go over that.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

This has changed with COVID :/ many schools are recommending only 1 away rotation and giving professionalism violations if you go over that.

Not for DOs.

 

[YCAGA]

Not for DOs.

The vast majority of residency programs where students want to do aways* are affiliated in some way with MD schools, which in turn are under the purview of the AAMC, which recommends:

"medical schools are encouraged to limit approved away rotations in any specialty to one per learner, per specialty (as previously recommended)"

So this applies to DO students doing aways at any program that is tied to an AAMC medical school. It is literally a letter to sign and pledge that you won't do more than 1 away when you get a spot in ERAS from many programs. DO's aren't granted some special exception.

*There are plenty of community FM and IM residencies that are not affiliated with a medical school and might care less about what the AAMC says, but these specialities do not really require aways. Ortho, ENT, uro, etc are almost always at a big academic center.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Almost any DO that has matched outside of primary care will tell you the same thing: the school didn’t help at all. Exceptions are the state-funded schools like MSU and OSU.

Just go where you want to be.

 

[drstranger]

*There are plenty of community FM and IM residencies that are not affiliated with a medical school and might care less about what the AAMC says, but these specialities do not really require aways. Ortho, ENT, uro, etc are almost always at a big academic center.

Well they were talking about DO programs since that is DO student's best chance at ortho. Most if not all of these programs don't care if you have multiple auditions because that is how they gauge applications and almost 90% of their interviews are from rotating students. I have talked to a few students that applied last year and this year to ortho, they are still doing multiple auditions.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

The vast majority of residency programs where students want to do aways* are affiliated in some way with MD schools, which in turn are under the purview of the AAMC, which recommends:

"medical schools are encouraged to limit approved away rotations in any specialty to one per learner, per specialty (as previously recommended)"

So this applies to DO students doing aways at any program that is tied to an AAMC medical school. It is literally a letter to sign and pledge that you won't do more than 1 away when you get a spot in ERAS from many programs. DO's aren't granted some special exception.

*There are plenty of community FM and IM residencies that are not affiliated with a medical school and might care less about what the AAMC says, but these specialities do not really require aways. Ortho, ENT, uro, etc are almost always at a big academic center.

I mean, you’re wrong. We’re talking about DO ortho.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

The vast majority of residency programs where students want to do aways* are affiliated in some way with MD schools, which in turn are under the purview of the AAMC, which recommends:

"medical schools are encouraged to limit approved away rotations in any specialty to one per learner, per specialty (as previously recommended)"

So this applies to DO students doing aways at any program that is tied to an AAMC medical school. It is literally a letter to sign and pledge that you won't do more than 1 away when you get a spot in ERAS from many programs. DO's aren't granted some special exception.

*There are plenty of community FM and IM residencies that are not affiliated with a medical school and might care less about what the AAMC says, but these specialities do not really require aways. Ortho, ENT, uro, etc are almost always at a big academic center.

I am sorry, but this couldn't be more wrong.

 

[ortnakas]

If you’re that sure you want a competitive specialty, why not retake MCAT and apply MD?

That said, it’s possible to get ortho from the majority of DO schools, especially the not-new ones.

Be careful being so sure that your 4.0 translates automatically into being a top med student though; the bar resets a bit, while some top premeds find out their old methods don’t translate well and others find their groove a little quicker. I’m not saying you’ll definitely struggle, or that it’s bad if you do, just that it’s a dangerous assumption that you’re already a competive ortho candidate.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

With those stats you should retake mcat and apply once to USMD especially if you are dead set on ortho, if that doesn't workout you can get into DO the next cycle. match rate for DO Ortho is decent and doable if you do what above posters have said. As far as which of the schools you have gotten acceptance to it really doesn't matter, as they are all pretty much on par, some are more established and "better" but I would go with the location you like and the cheaper school , if you decide not to try for USMD one more time.

 

[Dr. Bones123]

If you’re that sure you want a competitive specialty, why not retake MCAT and apply MD?

That said, it’s possible to get ortho from the majority of DO schools, especially the not-new ones.

Be careful being so sure that your 4.0 translates automatically into being a top med student though; the bar resets a bit, while some top premeds find out their old methods don’t translate well and others find their groove a little quicker. I’m not saying you’ll definitely struggle, or that it’s bad if you do, just that it’s a dangerous assumption that you’re already a competive ortho candidate.

I 100% agree with you, I am definitely expecting a big adjustment going into medical school and by no means think I will be at the top of my class...if anything this just shows my work ethic and I am willing to do any sacrifice I have to do to be in the position I need to be to get to ortho that's all. I am by no means thinking I am smart by any means, I just want to "show" that I have the work ethic that's all. Its a battle for all fo us med students.

 

[Dr. Bones123]

With those stats you should retake mcat and apply once to USMD especially if you are dead set on ortho, if that doesn't workout you can get into DO the next cycle. match rate for DO Ortho is decent and doable if you do what above posters have said. As far as which of the schools you have gotten acceptance to it really doesn't matter, as they are all pretty much on par, some are more established and "better" but I would go with the location you like and the cheaper school , if you decide not to try for USMD one more time.

I just don't want to take a gap year and risk not getting an acceptance. That doesn't mean though that I am not willing to take a "year" of research during medical school which is something I am expecting to take by the looks of it. I just want to get my foot in the door and get the ball rolling that's all.

 

[Dr. Bones123]

I am sorry, but this couldn't be more wrong.

I was freaking out when I read this post. Thank you lol.

I called a couple of schools that I got accepted to after I read this post and I confirmed with the administrator responsible for rotations and they all said that I could do multiple rotations in the same specialty.

 

[YCAGA]

Whatever you do, do not turn down a DO acceptance to try a cycle at MD schools. That is how people end up never matriculating anywhere in the US.

 

[YCAGA]

I was freaking out when I read this post. Thank you lol.

I called a couple of schools that I got accepted to after I read this post and I confirmed with the administrator responsible for rotations and they all said that I could do multiple rotations in the same specialty.

This is 100% dependent on the residency programs you want to rotate at, even if your school allows it. Sounds like DO residencies and DO medical schools are fine with it which makes sense given the difficulty DO's have matching in competitive specialties. Not really fair to MD applicants, but DO schools do not have to play by LCME rules so it is what it is.

Regardless, hopefully in 4 years when you are applying for rotations, we will have gotten enough variations of mRNA in our deltoids that it will be back to multiple aways for everyone.

 

[Dr. Bones123]

Whatever you do, do not turn down a DO acceptance to try a cycle at MD schools. That is how people end up never matriculating anywhere in the US.

Yeah exactly...I definitely agree with that notion. I am not turning down any acceptances to take a gap year.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I agree with @ortnakas and @FutureDoctor5000. Your first mistake was not applying to MD. I had several Fs on my transcript, a bumpy post-bacc, similar MCAT and made it into an MD school. Several of my classmates also have had multiple Fs, gap years with nothing productive to show for it, and in the end, it worked out for us.

Your application on paper looks "perfect" for every single DO school and even for your state MD school (if your state has one). Also, you're right in that having a 4.0 does not automatically mean you'll be top of your class in med school. A 4.0 can vary from school to school in difficulty. At my undergrad a 3.5 was equivalent in rigor to a nearby school's 4.0 and also to another nearby school's 3.0. Despite my multiple Fs, I'm top quintile of my class and I barely study 3-4 hours a day but I do so efficiently.

There's no reason to handicap yourself before you even start. You'll be running around trying to find decent research and even being turned down because you're a DO at many institutions. If you truly believe you're capable of more than a 505 then withdraw AACOMAS and focus your energy on retaking the MCAT.

DO schools are not going anywhere. "yoU wiLL lOSe oNe yEAr of iNcOme, dO u wAnT to BE a DoCTor or NoT?" is what some people will tell you. Practicing an extra year or two in a specialty you hate will not be "worth it" despite what some may say. Plus, if your goal is ortho or another highly compensated specialty then you will MORE THAN make up the "lost salary" in a year. Heck, there are tons of ortho surgeons out there making $3-$5m/year (just look at this NYC surgeon seeking divorce claims beauty queen wife led secret life as high-priced call girl: court documents and there was another one making $6m/year in alaska (nobody wants to live there) and previously made $2m in washington state. Even if you made an average $900k you'd be far ahead money-wise than if you didn't match ortho and SOAPED into primary care.

Administrators are used-car salesmen. They lie. Even at my MD school they made tons of promises and guarantees about clinic placements and rotations, and when push came to shove they said "suck it up and deal with it, you signed up for this." Don't believe a word they say. What are you gonna do when they pull a switcharoo on you in 3 years. Are you gonna drop out? Even if they're honest, administrations and rules change all of the time.

I hate surgery but attended a required surgery seminar (every sub-surgical specialty) hosted by my school. Overall they said school prestige will replace Step 1 and hold the most weight (at least at their residencies) with Step 2 CK being #2.

I have not heard even one classmate who took a gap year or two say "oh I wish I would have just gone straight to DO school and saved a year" but there are A LOT (and you will be one of them) 3rd and 4th years who will come on this forum and complain that they received 1/5th as many interviews as the MD with worse scores, or even not match and SOAP into the left over crumbs that are malignant and nobody would touch if given the choice

A bit of hyperbole in the last part(nah we don't get 1/5 the interviews, we just get more interviews from DO programs and community programs) and nah check out the rosters plenty of DO's at uni programs in stuff like IM, FM, EM, Rads, OB, Neuro, PMR, and even surgery. The ones that soap in malignant programs have major red flags and/or poor application strategy. These kind of people also exist in the MD world and end up at some "malignant " programs as well. I'ts better to be a MD in the match but at some point a line is drawn. For THIS person it makes sense to try for USMD, they have a 4.0 core and science gpa, a 505 likely won't get them into USMD BUT if they bring it up to 510 they might, if they don't then cut your looses and go DO, where there is still like a 70%+ chance to land a ortho spot(per 2020 charting outcomes) and get that same paycheck that you would had you wasted several more years trying to go MD. I don't know how this became another pointless MD trying to flex on DO discussion, that wasn't the point. And there are actually a lot of merit in NOT advising people to give up a medical school admission(MD or DO) because there is no guarantee you will ever get another. But in this case without even trying USMD once it makes sense to only if the mcat score increases and that's a HUGE if, if not I would run with the DO spot and never look back.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Not really fair to MD applicants, but DO schools do not have to play by LCME rules so it is what it is.

I mean, the MD students applying surgical fields related to GS from my programs med school are all doing multiple aways for the most part…..

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I just don't want to take a gap year and risk not getting an acceptance. That doesn't mean though that I am not willing to take a "year" of research during medical school which is something I am expecting to take by the looks of it. I just want to get my foot in the door and get the ball rolling that's all.

Lol nah you don't need to do a research year, 107+ DO's matched ortho last year without one, you need to do well on step2/level 2 and audition at former aoa programs.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

This is 100% dependent on the residency programs you want to rotate at, even if your school allows it. Sounds like DO residencies and DO medical schools are fine with it which makes sense given the difficulty DO's have matching in competitive specialties. Not really fair to MD applicants, but DO schools do not have to play by LCME rules so it is what it is.

Regardless, hopefully in 4 years when you are applying for rotations, we will have gotten enough variations of mRNA in our deltoids that it will be back to multiple aways for everyone.

I don't know what world you live in but no one is following those "guidelines " lol not even USMD students, most people can go get an away right now on vsas, there is literally no verification if this is your one "allowable" away rotation.

 

[YCAGA]

I don't know what world you live in but no one is following those "guidelines " lol not even USMD students, most people can go get an away right now on vsas, there is literally no verification if this is your one "allowable" away rotation.

It is definitely a free for all right now, but it is tbd how that will shake out in the match :/

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

It is definitely a free for all right now, but it is tbd how that will shake out in the match :/

No specialty except EM cared last year and so I highly doubt anyone cares this year... also do all transcripts show where you did your rotations?

 

[YCAGA]

I agree with @ortnakas and @FutureDoctor5000. Your first mistake was not applying to MD. I had several Fs on my transcript, a bumpy post-bacc, similar MCAT and made it into an MD school. Several of my classmates also have had multiple Fs, gap years with nothing productive to show for it, and in the end, it worked out for us.

Your application on paper looks "perfect" for every single DO school and even for your state MD school (if your state has one). Also, you're right in that having a 4.0 does not automatically mean you'll be top of your class in med school. A 4.0 can vary from school to school in difficulty. At my undergrad a 3.5 was equivalent in rigor to a nearby school's 4.0 and also to another nearby school's 3.0. Despite my multiple Fs, I'm top quintile of my class and I barely study 3-4 hours a day but I do so efficiently.

There's no reason to handicap yourself before you even start. You'll be running around trying to find decent research and even being turned down because you're a DO at many institutions. If you truly believe you're capable of more than a 505 then withdraw AACOMAS and focus your energy on retaking the MCAT.

DO schools are not going anywhere. "yoU wiLL lOSe oNe yEAr of iNcOme, dO u wAnT to BE a DoCTor or NoT?" is what some people will tell you. Practicing an extra year or two in a specialty you hate will not be "worth it" despite what some may say. Plus, if your goal is ortho or another highly compensated specialty then you will MORE THAN make up the "lost salary" in a year. Heck, there are tons of ortho surgeons out there making $3-$5m/year (just look at this NYC surgeon seeking divorce claims beauty queen wife led secret life as high-priced call girl: court documents and there was another one making $6m/year in alaska (nobody wants to live there) and previously made $2m in washington state. Even if you made an average $900k you'd be far ahead money-wise than if you didn't match ortho and SOAPED into primary care.

Administrators are used-car salesmen. They lie. Even at my MD school they made tons of promises and guarantees about clinic placements and rotations, and when push came to shove they said "suck it up and deal with it, you signed up for this." Don't believe a word they say. What are you gonna do when they pull a switcharoo on you in 3 years. Are you gonna drop out? Even if they're honest, administrations and rules change all of the time.

I hate surgery but attended a required surgery seminar (every sub-surgical specialty) hosted by my school. Overall they said school prestige will replace Step 1 and hold the most weight (at least at their residencies) with Step 2 CK being #2.

I have not heard even one classmate who took a gap year or two say "oh I wish I would have just gone straight to DO school and saved a year" but there are A LOT (and you will be one of them) 3rd and 4th years who will come on this forum and complain that they received 1/5th as many interviews as the MD with worse scores, or even not match and SOAP into the left over crumbs that are malignant and nobody would touch if given the choice

Just read this and make your decision. One DO applicant's experience applying to orthopaedic surgery (still helpful for other competitive stuff)
It will be an even tougher road in the world of P/F Step 1 no matter what anyone says. Less opportunities to shine and prove yourself smarter than some of your MD colleagues (no doubt you'll be smarter than some)

OP already applied DO...I mean I guess you could argue that they should withdrawal their apps before they are accepted, but then they have burned a bridge at at least those DO schools. Would be extremely hard to deal with mentality imo if they withdraw their DO apps, don't improve much on the MCAT, and then are back where they started but worse. Kinda a you made your bed and now you have to lie in it situation.

 

[YCAGA]

No specialty except EM cared last year and so I highly doubt anyone cares this year... also do all transcripts show where you did your rotations?

Not sure, I am not an M4. Just have talked to them at my school and some at a DO school nearby.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

It is definitely a free for all right now, but it is tbd how that will shake out in the match :/

They said that last year, turns out the people who did a lot of aways despite the recommendations actually did better in the match and in getting interviews than those that followed “the rules.”

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Just read this and make your decision. One DO applicant's experience applying to orthopaedic surgery (still helpful for other competitive stuff)
It will be an even tougher road in the world of P/F Step 1 no matter what anyone says. Less opportunities to shine and prove yourself smarter than some of your MD colleagues (no doubt you'll be smarter than some)

Ok but for former aoa programs and programs affiliated with DO schools like TCOM(jps comes to mind) this really isn't going to change much. Your ortho salary is the same even if you did your ortho residency at Harvard vs Ok state or Henry Ford McComb lol, if OP's bottomline goal is to be an academic hot shot ortho surgeon then yea MD is the way but OP should take the mcat and see if he improves before giving up the DO spot(he has until next July to decide)and a 90+% chance at a physician's salary. If he gives up the spot now, he burns those bridges and he very well could do worse or not improve his mcat which would make it harder to get into Med school again next year. He should only apply again IF he significantly improves his Mcat.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I can tell you that I know at least 15 people in my class have <505 MCAT. Lots of state/low-tier MD are flexible with regards to the MCAT. Even more so than some DO schools from my experience. You can filter through MSAR and see several MD schools (even private ones like RFU) accept a few students in the high 490s and low 500s), which doesn't even show you outliers that scored less (usually a handful).

Yes, it's a small chance but OP should have applied ONLY MD this cycle and focused on retaking the MCAT if they didn't get in. Then next cycle they could have done MD/DO.

The last part is where people get burned tho, the keep trying for MD mentality, it's highly unlikely OP gets in with a 505 unless he/she in a URM. Or live in Arkansas or Misssippi or ND etc.. applying DO was ok, but before applying anything he/she should have taken the mcat once more due to his high GPA.