Dumb reasons people give for not getting vaxxed thread

[Tenk]

Literally any reason outside of anaphylaxis is a dumb reason.

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[wareagle726]

On a side note, how long is your awkward pause after you ask the now hypoxic COVID patient if they are vaxxed and they say "no."

 

[oldtown]

This is literally the first time I've heard of a patient doing that. Kudos... I guess?

Since about May or June (when everyone who wanted the vaccine had gotten the vaccine), very few of my eligible patients have wanted monoclonal AB’s. The people who have been getting Covid are opposed to the vaccine, and also want nothing to do with the antibodies, for the same stupid reasons. I at least somewhat respect their consistency.

 

[HowlPrenderghast]

I honestly don't see any psychological inconsistencies with saying "if I die,I die" as a reason for not wanting the vaccine if they're also using meth. If anything, I feel that using meth supports that position.

Same Patient died 2 months later of ARDS with sepsis. I guess, choices really have lasting consequences.

 

[deleted1114045]

Since about May or June (when everyone who wanted the vaccine had gotten the vaccine), very few of my eligible patients have wanted monoclonal AB’s. The people who have been getting Covid are opposed to the vaccine, and also want nothing to do with the antibodies, for the same stupid reasons. I at least somewhat respect their consistency.

We just got the antibody for the first time 3 days ago. 5/6 people I offered it to declined. Weird…but, yeah… consistent. All antivaxxers.

 

[Birdstrike]

We just got the antibody for the first time 3 days ago. 5/6 people I offered it to declined. Weird…but, yeah… consistent. All antivaxxers.

“Sir, we have stuff that will go in your blood and vacuum up all the little COVID bad guys and save you from having to suffocate to death. Want it?”

“No.”

“Wait. What?”

????!!??’n??

???¥{+*}£<nn}#@$$££\]???’n???!!!??!!????

“

 

[gutonc]

Since about May or June (when everyone who wanted the vaccine had gotten the vaccine), very few of my eligible patients have wanted monoclonal AB’s. The people who have been getting Covid are opposed to the vaccine, and also want nothing to do with the antibodies, for the same stupid reasons. I at least somewhat respect their consistency.

If they were truly consistent, they'd stay home. But instead they come to your ED and demand horse worm pills with their last breath before you tube them.

 

[thegenius]

If they were truly consistent, they'd stay home. But instead they come to your ED and demand horse worm pills with their last breath before you tube them.

Yup I've had that happen. They want hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

 

[Birdstrike]

If they were truly consistent, they'd stay home. But instead they come to your ED and demand horse worm pills with their last breath before you tube them.

Yup I've had that happen. They want hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

Demanding what's experimental, but refusing what's not experimental.

 

[RustedFox]

Demanding what's experimental, but refusing what's not experimental.

Because pills are less scary than vaccines and liquids that run through tubes.

Seriously. That's the stone-age mentality of the average muggle.

 

[Birdstrike]

Because pills are less scary than vaccines and liquids that run through tubes.

Seriously. That's the stone-age mentality of the average muggle.

Yes. It's easier to choose to fear something you can control, like a vaccine you can decide whether or not to let into your arm, as opposed to a virus you cannot see, hear, feel or control.

 

[RustedFox]

One of our regional hospitals has acquired refrigerated trucks to expand morgue capacity amongst this delta surge spike.
Man, Florida.

This place really is an amazing dichotomy of seniors who would stand in line for hours (or hire people to search online for them) to get the shot, and those who ardently opposed vaccination for nonsensical reasons.

Its crazypants here.

 

[Birdstrike]

One of our doc's nurse, who's in her late 20's, got the vaccination. Her husband, who's healthy and in his mid 30's, didn't get the vaccination. They have two daughters, 10 and 13. They all got COVID two weeks ago.

Guess which one just died?

 

[Apollyon]

One of our doc's nurse, who's in her late 20's, got the vaccination. Her husband, who's healthy and in his mid 30's, didn't get the vaccination. They have two daughters, 10 and 13. They all got COVID two weeks ago.

Guess which one just died?

The obvious one (to me, at least, maybe not some others) - the husband? Or, are you being cryptic and glib?

 

[BoardingDoc]

The obvious one (to me, at least, maybe not some others) - the husband? Or, are you being cryptic and glib?

@Birdstrike has been pretty pro-vaccine, so I'm gonna assume the unvaxxed hubs. That said, the 10 yr old isn't eligible to get vaccinated yet, so this post still makes me anxious.

 

[Birdstrike]

The obvious one (to me, at least, maybe not some others) - the husband? Or, are you being cryptic and glib?

@Birdstrike has been pretty pro-vaccine, so I'm gonna assume the unvaxxed hubs. That said, the 10 yr old isn't eligible to get vaccinated yet, so this post still makes me anxious.

The unvaccinated, healthy 35 year old male died. Now his daughters not only have to live with the fact that their dad died unexpectedly, but that their dad could have easily spared them the loss, with a walk-in appointment at Walgreens.

 

[Arcan57]

The unvaccinated, healthy 35 year old male died. Now his daughters not only have to live with the fact that their dad died unexpectedly, but that their dad could have easily spared them the loss, with a walk-in appointment at Walgreens.

Too damn many COVID orphans. It f%#^'ing hurt during the first wave when there wasn't anything we could do. It's so much worse now when it's (almost) completely preventable. You can't defend your kids when you're dead, and for most people the hospital bills (dying in the ICU for weeks) are going to wipe out their life savings. Protecting your family needs to be redefined from "LARPing as a vigilante" to "not dying of a preventable disease".

 

[Birdstrike]

Protecting your family needs to be redefined from "LARPing as a vigilante" to "not dying of a preventable disease".

Well said.

 

[Birdstrike]

We know that a randomized controlled trial is a superior form of evidence than anecdote. But the average person can't understand a randomized placebo-controlled and therefore aren't persuaded by them. To such people, anecdote, is the only type of evidence.

Anecdote is the only thing that will change the minds of anti-vaccine holdouts. It's not enough that they read about someone on the internet that died of COVID, a friend of a friend or an acquaintance. Because their mind can drown that out with all kinds of false or confounding information.

But when someone close to them, a friend, son, daughter, parent, spouse, dies of COVID, that's an "anecdote" that will change most people's minds and change them forever. Reality will be the ultimate persuader, with minds changed in a way no amount of science, data or opinions could. Some people will ignore the best of advice from the best of sources and instead wait for reality to hit them in the face like a ten thousand ton train.

 

[RustedFox]

Too damn many COVID orphans. It f%#^'ing hurt during the first wave when there wasn't anything we could do. It's so much worse now when it's (almost) completely preventable. You can't defend your kids when you're dead, and for most people the hospital bills (dying in the ICU for weeks) are going to wipe out their life savings. Protecting your family needs to be redefined from "LARPing as a vigilante" to "not dying of a preventable disease".

I really, really wish that I would have thought of this one.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Too damn many COVID orphans. It f%#^'ing hurt during the first wave when there wasn't anything we could do. It's so much worse now when it's (almost) completely preventable. You can't defend your kids when you're dead, and for most people the hospital bills (dying in the ICU for weeks) are going to wipe out their life savings. Protecting your family needs to be redefined from "LARPing as a vigilante" to "not dying of a preventable disease".

I thought people still had to pay zero out of pocket for covid hospitalizations?

 

[Arcan57]

But when someone close to them, a friend, son, daughter, parent, spouse, dies of COVID, that's an "anecdote" that will change most people's minds and change them forever. Reality will be the ultimate persuader. When enough people get enough of a taste of reality, minds will be changed in a way no amount of science, data or opinions could. It's unfortunate it has to be that way for some people. But the reality is that some people will ignore the best of advice from the best of source and instead prefer to wait for reality to hit them in the face like a moving train.

The other factor in this is that a significant portion of the population has been raised that changing your mind is a sign of weakness. It feels sometimes like the idea is that learning is something that only is supposed to happen in childhood. Changing your viewpoint due to new evidence isn’t growth, it’s betraying your ideals and dishonoring the people that taught and lead you.

 

[Arcan57]

I thought people still had to pay zero out of pocket for covid hospitalizations?

Covid Medical Bills Are About to Get Bigger (Published 2021)

As some insurers focus on encouraging vaccination, temporary waivers that kept patient costs low are expiring.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Birdstrike]

Long-COVID symptoms reduced 50% in those vaccinated who get COVID, compared to those not vaccinated who get COVID.

Lancet, 9/1/21

 

[DoctwoB]

Long-COVID symptoms reduced 50% in those vaccinated who get COVID, compared to those not vaccinated who get COVID.

Lancet, 9/1/21

0.2% infection rate in double vaxxed patients (with less effective AZ vaccine as well). Not bad.

 

[bravotwozero]

0.2% infection rate in double vaxxed patients (with less effective AZ vaccine as well). Not bad.

That is incredible, but do you mind posting your source?

 

[Ganon]

So far the best reason I have heard was that she got pregnant with a high-risk pregnancy and her OB "flip-flopped" from telling her not to get it to telling her to get it once the ACOG guidelines came out.

At least there was a thought process that I could follow and empathize a little bit with. She was trying to reduce the risk to her fetus after many IUFDs.

I would have gotten deeper into the back story but I had to slip her BiPap mask on because she was fighting for the life of both herself and her baby at that time, so we see what the real better option was......

 

[DoctwoB]

That is incredible, but do you mind posting your source?

lancet article Birdstrike posted.

Risk factors and disease profile of post-vaccination SARS-CoV-2 infection in UK users of the COVID Symptom Study app: a prospective, community-based, nested, case-control study

To minimise SARS-CoV-2 infection, at-risk populations must be targeted in efforts to boost vaccine effectiveness and infection control measures. Our findings might support caution around relaxing physical distancing and other personal protective measures in the post-vaccination era, particularly...

www.thelancet.com

 

[wholeheartedly]

 

[Birdstrike]

 

[Birdstrike]

Was just told,

"I'm not getting the shot, because it's designed to go into your body and do nothing for two years, when it's then programmed to kill you all."

 

[thegenius]

Was just told,

"I'm not getting the shot, because it's designed to go into your body and do nothing for two years, when it's then programmed to kill you all."

That would be cool.

 

[Birdstrike]

That would be cool.

It is super Matrix-ey, isn't it?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That would be cool.

And would wipe out 96+% of the country's doctors.

Seriously, what possible plan would have that as a goal?

 

[thegenius]

It would be cool if you got infected with a virus, then 2 years later you somehow released a viral apocalypse on the earth killing all 7 Billion people.

Except you.

 

[DoctwoB]

It is super Matrix-ey, isn't it?

Pretty sure it was the plot of I am Legend, though it was supposed to be a cancer vaccine (The will smith movie, not the entirely different book).

Deer hunting in a mustang in Manhattan did look pretty awesome though . . .

 

[ER BlueBlood]

If they were truly consistent, they'd stay home. But instead they come to your ED and demand horse worm pills with their last breath before you tube them.

We really need to start discharging these folks, I don’t see any reason to let them take the bed of someone who needs it esp when they are unvaxxed and then refusing proper therapy, I’m getting increasingly short with them and don’t get me started on the admins

every morning at the hospital there are other specialties like cards begging admins to allow them to do some procedures for some patients, it’s sad. I have felt like I am in an alternate universe for quite some time

 

[gutonc]

We really need to start discharging these folks, I don’t see any reason to let them take the bed of someone who needs it esp when they are unvaxxed and then refusing proper therapy, I’m getting increasingly short with them and don’t get me started on the admins

Discharge them? Why let them in the door in the first place?

Screen at the door:
Vaccinated --> Welcome in to our suite of high-tech medical diagnostic and therapeutic options.
Not Vaccinated --> Here's an O2 tank and a referral for home oxygen. Good luck and godspeed.

NB: I'm aware of EMTALA. This is more of a thought experiment/schadenfreude.

 

[Goro]

An FB friend of mine stated emphatically that they would not get vaccinated.

Instead of just blocking him at that point, I let my curiosity get the better of me, and so I held my snark, tried to avoid throwing facts at him to avoid triggering the cognitive dissonance, and tried to dissect out why he had this mindset.
It went something like this:

Me: Why do you feel that way.
Him: Nonsense answer

Me: But how did you come to think that way
Him: Explanation of nonsense that was more nonsensical

Me: OK, but you still haven't told me why? What are you afraid of?
Him: Semi-understandable explanation of his feeling

Me: I still don't understand what you're afraid of. [Couldn't help myself...had to explain vaccine safety protocols and what goes into an EUA]
Him: More semi-understandable stuff

Me: BUT WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF??
Him: Not afraid, just don't like Tony Fauci telling me what to do

So, we have a bunch of people who's rationale for not getting vaxxed is identical to that of your average hysterical 10 year old.

I unfriended him at that point. Life's too short.

I'm going to have to dig up the link, but not to long ago, an M2 student posted that they didn't want to get the vaccine because Big Pharma makes too much money and they'll have taken short cuts.

I imagine owning the libs is another reason for the anti-vax mindset and COVID denial, but I suppose there must be an easier way to own the libs than getting vented.

 

[Goro]

"I didn't think COVID was real."

Don't they usually say that right before you have to vent them?

 

[Ho0v-man]

“I’m not getting that vaccine. Never, in the course of all of human history, have we ever tried to force a vaccine for a stupid virus that doesn’t even do anything!”

Me: “okay”

 

[chocomorsel]

I honestly don't see any psychological inconsistencies with saying "if I die,I die" as a reason for not wanting the vaccine if they're also using meth. If anything, I feel that using meth supports that position.

Totally agree. But can they please, please, choose to do so at home, instead of my damn ICU wasting people's time and resources.

 

[Birdstrike]

an M2 student posted that they didn't want to get the vaccine because Big Pharma makes too much money...

"I don't want that damn ET tube either, somebody made a lot of money selling that plastic! I'd rather die!"

Okay.

 

[Arcan57]

An FB friend of mine stated emphatically that they would not get vaccinated.

Instead of just blocking him at that point, I let my curiosity get the better of me, and so I held my snark, tried to avoid throwing facts at him to avoid triggering the cognitive dissonance, and tried to dissect out why he had this mindset.
It went something like this:

Me: Why do you feel that way.
Him: Nonsense answer

Me: But how did you come to think that way
Him: Explanation of nonsense that was more nonsensical

Me: OK, but you still haven't told me why? What are you afraid of?
Him: Semi-understandable explanation of his feeling

Me: I still don't understand what you're afraid of. [Couldn't help myself...had to explain vaccine safety protocols and what goes into an EUA]
Him: More semi-understandable stuff

Me: BUT WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF??
Him: Not afraid, just don't like Tony Fauci telling me what to do

So, we have a bunch of people who's rationale for not getting vaxxed is identical to that of your average hysterical 10 year old.

I unfriended him at that point. Life's too short.

I'm going to have to dig up the link, but not to long ago, an M2 student posted that they didn't want to get the vaccine because Big Pharma makes too much money and they'll have taken short cuts.

I imagine owning the libs is another reason for the anti-vax mindset and COVID denial, but I suppose there must be an easier way to own the libs than getting vented.

I think for a lot of people the COVID vaccine refusal lies in a confluence of:

1) decade+ belief in anything widely reported in mainstream news is automatically a lie
2) inability to imagine the consequences of the virus (vents are what happen to really old people and attractive teenagers dying of incurable diseases)
3)loss of in-group status for getting vaccine (people will make fun of me and call me dumb or gullible)
4) inability to assess risk in a scenario where there's neither perfect protection nor zero risk. (84% efficacy means the vaccine doesn't work, 6/1,000,000 cases of severe thrombocytopenia means the vaccine itself is a stone cold killer)
5) general sense of "the system" existing solely to screw them over so anything that comes from the system is poisoned fruit (ties into #1)
6) fear of physical pain (from needlestick or from vaccine reaction)
7) procrastination (I can get vaccinated whenever I finally feel comfortable with it, there's no reason to rush)

Most unvaccinated people have a multi-layered belief system in regards to the vaccine. Generally there will be one or two of these beliefs that they're prepared to back up with whatever their version of an in-depth, reasoned position looks like. They'll cite sources and will have arguments for why you should agree with their stance.

Assuming that the most prominently verbalized belief is the main reason someone is anti-vax is a trap. It feels like if you can just disprove their argument then they'll get vaccinated. This is demonstrably false. The reason is likely to be something they're not verbalizing or prepared to explain/defend on an intellectual level. That's why we're not going to get out of this through education.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

A mom and dad both died from covid in the icu last week. Both young and healthy. Both unvaccinated. The wife was a nurse who didn’t think the vaccine was safe. The husband was giving vaccines but wouldn’t get it himself because of his wife. Now they’re both dead. At least their kids are adults.

Also have a pregnant woman in the icu who is unvaccinated. She’s on a vent and just got a trach. Super.

 

[rokshana]

I'm going to have to dig up the link, but not to long ago, an M2 student posted that they didn't want to get the vaccine because Big Pharma makes too much money and they'll have taken short cuts.

I imagine owning the libs is another reason for the anti-vax mindset and COVID denial, but I suppose there must be an easier way to own the libs than getting vented.

I’m sure when the Med school says vaccinate or drop out, he will change his mind.

 

[Goro]

I’m sure when the Med school says vaccinate or drop out, he will change his mind.

When it was pointed out that this was going to be his only options, he changed his mind.

 

[RustedFox]

I think for a lot of people the COVID vaccine refusal lies in a confluence of:

1) decade+ belief in anything widely reported in mainstream news is automatically a lie
2) inability to imagine the consequences of the virus (vents are what happen to really old people and attractive teenagers dying of incurable diseases)
3)loss of in-group status for getting vaccine (people will make fun of me and call me dumb or gullible)
4) inability to assess risk in a scenario where there's neither perfect protection nor zero risk. (84% efficacy means the vaccine doesn't work, 6/1,000,000 cases of severe thrombocytopenia means the vaccine itself is a stone cold killer)
5) general sense of "the system" existing solely to screw them over so anything that comes from the system is poisoned fruit (ties into #1)
6) fear of physical pain (from needlestick or from vaccine reaction)
7) procrastination (I can get vaccinated whenever I finally feel comfortable with it, there's no reason to rush)

Most unvaccinated people have a multi-layered belief system in regards to the vaccine. Generally there will be one or two of these beliefs that they're prepared to back up with whatever their version of an in-depth, reasoned position looks like. They'll cite sources and will have arguments for why you should agree with their stance.

Assuming that the most prominently verbalized belief is the main reason someone is anti-vax is a trap. It feels like if you can just disprove their argument then they'll get vaccinated. This is demonstrably false. The reason is likely to be something they're not verbalizing or prepared to explain/defend on an intellectual level. That's why we're not going to get out of this through education.

So in short, what Veers said awhile back:

"Americans are beyond saving."

 

[ER BlueBlood]

There’s a case at memorial Hermann in Houston currently where the family does not want to disclose vaccination status of the 74 year old on a ventilator (yea I think we know) and sued to have the grandad get ivermectin since the drs refused to give it as a therapy. A judge has sided with the family on allowing ivermectin as a last resort. Again, alternate universe

 

[Apollyon]

There’s a case at memorial Hermann in Houston currently where the family does not want to disclose vaccination status of the 74 year old on a ventilator (yea I think we know) and sued to have the grandad get ivermectin since the drs refused to give it as a therapy. A judge has sided with the family on allowing ivermectin as a last resort. Again, alternate universe

That is just screwball. What if they wanted another doctor's therapy, a Dr named Jack...something...which is delivered through a mask, oh, and, it turns out to be CO? Or, if it was ethylene glycol or Chlorox?

I guess it's the idea of the triangle: pt and family, judge, and doctors. Only one is licensed to practice medicine.

Or, does "as a last resort" mean while they're coding him?