Good News, that POS Comrade Obama ruined the Democratic Party

[Ducttape]

http://www.redflagnews.com/headline...ack-president-of-the-united-states-of-america


Might be a little bias?

that was 30 seconds that ill never get back...

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[Ligament]

that was 30 seconds that ill never get back...

"First President to require all Americans to purchase a product from a third party."

Is this untrue?

 

[ampaphb]

Once again, never let the facts get in the way of a good punchline:

The founding fathers pretty clearly did intend exactly that, since in 1792, just three years after ratifying the constitution, Congress (including many of those same founding fathers) passed the Militia Act of 1792 (Second Congress, Session I. Chapter XXVIII, Passed May 2, 1792), requiring every able-bodied male to purchase a firearm.

There was also the 1790 passed by the first Congress, which applied to any U.S. ship that was at least 150 tons or with a crew of at least 10. It required the master or commander to either have a supply of on-board medicines (with instructions) or provide "all such advice, medicine, or attendance of physicians, as any of the crew shall stand in need of in case of sickness" and do it "without any deduction from the wages of such sick seaman or mariner." Sure sounds like mandatory health care.

Finally, in 1798, a Congress that included five framers expanded the health coverage mandate, requiring every ship owner or master coming into a port to pay 20 cents per seaman for every month each worker had been employed. The funds, which could be withheld from the seamen, were used "to provide for the temporary relief and maintenance of sick or disabled seamen, in the hospitals or other proper institutions now established" in the port. Leftover funds were used to create hospitals for those mariners.
​

Harvard Law School Professor Einer Eithauge on Thursday, January 5th, 2012 in a commentary in the New England Journal of Medicine

 

[lobelsteve]

Once again, never let the facts get in the way of a good punchline:

The founding fathers pretty clearly did intend exactly that, since in 1792, just three years after ratifying the constitution, Congress (including many of those same founding fathers) passed the Militia Act of 1792 (Second Congress, Session I. Chapter XXVIII, Passed May 2, 1792), requiring every able-bodied male to purchase a firearm.

There was also the 1790 passed by the first Congress, which applied to any U.S. ship that was at least 150 tons or with a crew of at least 10. It required the master or commander to either have a supply of on-board medicines (with instructions) or provide "all such advice, medicine, or attendance of physicians, as any of the crew shall stand in need of in case of sickness" and do it "without any deduction from the wages of such sick seaman or mariner." Sure sounds like mandatory health care.

Finally, in 1798, a Congress that included five framers expanded the health coverage mandate, requiring every ship owner or master coming into a port to pay 20 cents per seaman for every month each worker had been employed. The funds, which could be withheld from the seamen, were used "to provide for the temporary relief and maintenance of sick or disabled seamen, in the hospitals or other proper institutions now established" in the port. Leftover funds were used to create hospitals for those mariners.
​

Harvard Law School Professor Einer Eithauge on Thursday, January 5th, 2012 in a commentary in the New England Journal of Medicine

Up to date as usual.

 

[ampaphb]

Never realized truth had a timeliness requirement.

 

[emd123]

Anyone on here advocate wooden teeth, by chance?

 

[Ducttape]

fyi, wooden teeth were out of date by the time Washington was in office. his were mostly ivory.

http://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/the-man-the-myth/the-trouble-with-teeth/
Porcelain teeth were being made in the 1770s.

 

[hyperalgesia]

"First President to require all Americans to purchase a product from a third party."
Note: ALL Americans, so only the firearm requirement violates Ligament's quote.
You can look for obscure precedents but you can't deny this president and the outgoing congress are full of "firsts".

 

[lonelobo]

Do you really think these are "enemies" that need to be "fought"? n

Yes, and if you haven't realized it, your head is a lot farther up your Arse than I thought

 

[hyperalgesia]

Yes, and if you haven't realized it, your head is a lot farther up your Arse than I thought

I just don't see why you are electing to prop these industries and companies up, requiring me to buy their products, bailing them out, giving them unfair competitive advantages, etc. Same thing with the evil banks. If that's how you deal with "enemies", can I please be your enemy?

 

[lonelobo]

Please tell me how I am propping up insurance companies? Hospitals?
These are the two trying to squeeze out Docs, while increasing their profits.
You like to blame " the Black Bogeyman" for all the ills in medicine , maybe because he is not faceless like the two industries

 

[hyperalgesia]

Please tell me how I am propping up insurance companies? Hospitals?
These are the two trying to squeeze out Docs, while increasing their profits.
You like to blame " the Black Bogeyman" for all the ills in medicine , maybe because he is not faceless like the two industries

First of all, the "bogeyman" is the faceless one, the easy target, the insurance industries, etc.

These groups are enabled by the government to squeeze out private docs. These industries and companies don't owe me anything, they are accountable to their shareholders only. They are what they are. The government, on the other hand, is accountable to us. And the government is enabling these other groups. Obamacare was supported by health insurance companies and hospitals because it benefits their selfish aims. Health insurance companies now have a massive guaranteed, govt-subsidized population thanks to Obama and Pelosi and Reid, etc. If you voted for Obama and his posse, you indirectly propped up these industries and companies.

But are you really trying to inject race into this by calling Obama the "Black Bogeyman"? Obama, Reid and Pelosi all look the same to me.

 

[lonelobo]

First of all, the "bogeyman" is the faceless one, the easy target, the insurance industries, etc.

These groups are enabled by the government to squeeze out private docs. These industries and companies don't owe me anything, they are accountable to their shareholders only. They are what they are. The government, on the other hand, is accountable to us. And the government is enabling these other groups. Obamacare was supported by health insurance companies and hospitals because it benefits their selfish aims. Health insurance companies now have a massive guaranteed, govt-subsidized population thanks to Obama and Pelosi and Reid, etc. If you voted for Obama and his posse, you indirectly propped up these industries and companies.

But are you really trying to inject race into this by calling Obama the "Black Bogeyman"? Obama, Reid and Pelosi all look the same to me.

Insurance companies have been trying to squeeze Docs long before Obama, Reid and Pelosi.
Hospitals go through cycles where they try to employ the all the docs and put PP guys out of business, again long before Obama came into office.
You insist that things were great before Obama, but those of us that have been in practice for awhile know for at least the last 15 years things have been spiraling down.
It must make you feel better if you can blame someone, but your argument is tired and does nothing to advance the cause of private practice Docs

 

[NOSfan]

'For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe and saw'

'The Trees' by RUSH

 

[hyperalgesia]

Insurance companies have been trying to squeeze Docs long before Obama, Reid and Pelosi.
Hospitals go through cycles where they try to employ the all the docs and put PP guys out of business, again long before Obama came into office.

I agree with this.

The government has never been effective at taming these beasts. Instead, it uses laws and taxes to suppress the people to placate and assist the moneyed interests. It's a cozy relationship. The companies get rich, the politicians get re-elected.

My position is that the solution is to RESTRAIN the government and not allow it to pick industries and companies as winners and losers. The government has a responsibility to ensure the free market playing field is open for competition. Things like "Certificates of Need", even though they are state-based, are an example of govt protecting the hospitals and hurting the people.

The best way to control a hospital is to allow another hospital to open up. Same with insurance companies. Government does NOT WANT to tame the insurance companies and hospitals. Instead it is taming everyone else.

 

[lonelobo]

'For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe and saw'

'The Trees' by RUSH

"Lessons taught but never learned
All around us anger burns
Guide the future by the past
Long ago the mould was cast"

 

[ampaphb]

The president in the majority of Democrats wanted a single-payer option. It was only because of the Republicans that insurance carriers were included in Obamacare.

The primary purpose of the plan is to provide health insurance to those previously uninsured, who would have otherwise been at risk for catastrophic debts.

Pay go demanded that there be and a mechanism to pay for this entitlement, otherwise it could have been funded by government debt. Once again, a Republican requirement, not one favored by the majority of Democrats.

 

[NOSfan]

The president in the majority of Democrats wanted a single-payer option. It was only because of the Republicans that insurance carriers were included in Obamacare.

I do not pretend to have the legal acumen that you possess, please explain how did the Republicans exclude the single payer option from Obamacare, when none of them authored or voted for the legislation.

Thank you.

 

[NOSfan]

"Lessons taught but never learned
All around us anger burns
Guide the future by the past
Long ago the mould was cast"

Don't forget the rest

'For they marched up to Bastille Day
La guillotine claimed her bloody prize
Hear the echoes of the centuries
Power isn't all that money buys'

 

[Leo Aquarius]

What a gripping thread this hath become.

 

[Silent Cool]

Government tinkering did not begin with the ACA. It began with Medicare. Prior to Medicare, the free market worked when patients controlled the rising costs because the were looking out for THEIR money. The exponential rise in healthcare costs is entirely due to the removal of free market controls as the giant Medicare monopoly entered the game, along with the insurance company bonanza, govt incentives to have insurance subsidized by employers, etc. All these things serve the purpose of detaching the consumer (cost controller) from the service delivered.

Exactly.

This is also the same reason that educational costs have spiraled out of control.

 

[Ducttape]

i think we can all agree, however, that without Medicare, a significant population of our elderly would have no health insurance - because they did not have any prior to Medicare.

i for one believe that we should take care of our country's elderly patients. Medicaid is a completely separate discussion.

 

[emd123]

As repulsive as I find it, I have to admit they've also forced me into the government udder, considering 70% of my patients are Medicare. As libertarian leaning as I like to think of myself, they've gotten us all by the n***s, and dependent on them whether by choice or not.

 

[hyperalgesia]

As a capitalist and physician, Medicare is working for me professionally. No pre-auth.

But as an American, I disagree with Ducttape and think Medicare is an unfolding tragedy for the very people it tries to save. Like so many liberal ideas that provide immediate relief to those in need, the long term consequences take many years to be realized.

Without Medicare, I suggest that healthcare would have evolved like other industries in America and become more accessible and inexpensive.

 

[SSdoc33]

As a capitalist and physician, Medicare is working for me professionally. No pre-auth.

But as an American, I disagree with Ducttape and think Medicare is an unfolding tragedy for the very people it tries to save. Like so many liberal ideas that provide immediate relief to those in need, the long term consequences take many years to be realized.

Without Medicare, I suggest that healthcare would have evolved like other industries in America and become more accessible and inexpensive.

this is the typical libertarian crap that you and Mr. M like to spew. just complain and find fault with everything, yet offer no reasonable, practical alternative. ron and rand paul have this down to a science.

 

[Ducttape]

Without Medicare, I suggest that healthcare would have evolved like other industries in America and become more accessible and inexpensive.

kind of like how it has evolved for the gas industry.

no wait. the cable TV industry.

um... the oil industry?

the steel industry?

telephone?

electricity?

finance?

 

[hyperalgesia]

kind of like how it has evolved for the gas industry.

no wait. the cable TV industry.

um... the oil industry?

the steel industry?

telephone?

electricity?

finance?

Yes, like those! Are suggesting that people in America don't have access to phones and cable? I think they have too much access!

 

[hyperalgesia]

this is the typical libertarian crap that you and Mr. M like to spew. just complain and find fault with everything, yet offer no reasonable, practical alternative. ron and rand paul have this down to a science.

There is no single alternative like there is no single shoe size for everyone. The practical solution is to let the states address their populations' problems and to accept that it will not be uniform. I have no problem whatsoever with RomneyCare in MA. You don't like your state's approach, you get your state to change it. If that fails, you move to MA (or Texas).

 

[lonelobo]

There is no single alternative like there is no single shoe size for everyone. The practical solution is to let the states address their populations' problems and to accept that it will not be uniform. I have no problem whatsoever with RomneyCare in MA. You don't like your state's approach, you get your state to change it. If that fails, you move to MA (or Texas).

"Texas, it is like a whole other Country"
https://www.texastribune.org/2014/09/16/texas-tops-census-list-highest-uninsured-rate/

 

[hyperalgesia]

"Texas, it is like a whole other Country"
https://www.texastribune.org/2014/09/16/texas-tops-census-list-highest-uninsured-rate/

Insurance company sales are not something for a state to be proud of. If a state had zero health insurance sales, it would be a badge of honor. And all the insurance bureaucrats, lawyers, reps, and corrupt policies can swarm some other state, like Massachusetts.

 

[Ducttape]

Yes, like those! Are suggesting that people in America don't have access to phones and cable? I think they have too much access!

Not to be too sarcastic, but you are kind of revealing a woeful lack of historical perspective with regards to big business in the US...

(Hint each of the industries requires/required significant government regulation)