Illegal immigrants taking American medical school spots

[CrimsonKing]

how has Pl198 not been banned yet?

Hey now, as long as @PL198 isn't personally attacking people there is no reason to ban him, even if you (like me) don't agree with a lot of what he posts. This is a forum for discussion, and this is America.

SDN is not, and I hope it never becomes, a place where we can only hear the views of the majority.

As far as the thread is concerned: I personally don't care about illegal immigration, and wish that it was much easier for people to gain legal status (ie pass criminal background check, become legal). The background check obviously not being based on "illegally immigrated."

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Theseus]

You scare me. For somebody who is going to be a doctor one day, you really have a short fuse and a serious inability to empathize. Those are not good characteristics to have going into this field...

Boil down, homie.

He has a point, you know.

 

[kthxbai]

It could be argued that they should not receive federal loans, and also that they would have difficulty getting a job in the US after medical school (work-based visas are limited), but if they work hard to earn good grades and are otherwise as competitive as anyone of us, then they should be allowed to participate in the application 'game' like the rest of us.

Getting into med school is not a walk in the park, so these illegals are showing a lot of the values Americans treasure (dedication, hard work, improving ones' circumstances) if they are applying and getting accepted to medical school.

American schools (mostly) accept American applicants to train American doctors.

Do you have any idea how much money it costs to graduate a physician? Why run the risk of wasting enormous amounts of resources on a person that may be deported or choose to return to his/her home country?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

American schools (mostly) accept American applicants to train American doctors.

Do you have any idea how much money it costs to graduate a physician? Why run the risk of wasting enormous amounts of resources on a person that may be deported or choose to return to his/her home country?

Someone who's been here for over a decade (and in some cases 2 decades) usually has minimal ties to their country of origin. They are just as likely as (almost) anyone else to stay or leave.
And what enormous resources are you referring to? We spend a bajillion dollars on so much crap. Giving out a few med school loans to immigrant kids is not gonna be felt by anyone (it's a microscopic amount of $).
And currently, only 1 school allows this. And they're pretty much banking on a dem to maintain the WH in 2017 (which seems very likely).

Edit: A school can simply require these students to work with medically underserved populations for x years.

 

[RedSox143]

... You realize it's hard for illegal immigrants currently in the country to get citizenship, right? I work in a school with a large student population that is not documented and have written many rec letters for them for immigration services. I've had some students that have been applying with their families for years for citizenship. They were universally hardworking students that had been in America since their birth/early childhood. The US immigration system is incredibly broken but shipping them all back to their family's countries or denying them the fruit of their hard work isn't going to fix the massive problems with the system.

A lot of posts in here reek of entitlement. Just because someone with lower stay gets in to med school doesn't make them less deserving of the spot.

It's hard to come up with a good answer you know, I can't imagine how hard and awful it is to be an illegal immigrant on the other hand it is illegal and you know medical school admissions ask for tons of information about proof of citizenship and residence it's not really fair that some can just bypass all that , I guess that's why it's a good debate if I was in their situation I don't know if I could handle it but bottom line is there's a lot of hard working legal
citizens who deserve those oppeetunities, bottom line it's a good debate but I've understood both dudes this whole time bottom line, it's a rough cycle for most were all a little vulnerable

 

[ridethecliche]

Yes because sneaking your way into a country is clearly the honorable and hard working thing to become a citizen

As someone who immigrated legally to the US, I really don't think you understand how insanely hard and expensive it is to go through that process. The illegal immigrant that you so despise aren't really rolling in dough. It's funny how America's immigration policies changed so drastically after the people that started moving here weren't white and especially after they'd exploited the crap out of some of them (file under: chinese et al.).

I'm sure that silver spoon tastes great though.

Oh, btw, being a medical student doesn't give you a pedestal to stand on when it comes to immigration and what's right and wrong. Hilariously the Dream Act allows for people to stay and selects for hard working and smart people. What are you? Scared of a little competition?

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

There's so much discussion here about "they/them" vs "us". I think what you need to do is really explore what you're talking about and look past the casual "news" story that Yahoo! created. When I say you should explore more, I also mean look into the individuals you are describing as "they/them".

Do you realize the hoops of what an immigrant has to jump through in order to get a job while dealing with green card/visa paperwork? For the one person I know who's going through that, his life is on hold, while the clock is tick tick ticking away since his green card is nearly expired. It's a very scary concern: get the job in order to start the paperwork yet wait an entire year or more for that paperwork to clear …. OR, go back home and stay there for at least three years before the US will allow you to return. And did I explain his tip-top schooling in an important specialty? It's sad to see how difficult this process can be…. and what a waste of such talent.

And no, he is not illegal.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

It's hard to come up with a good answer you know, I can't imagine how hard and awful it is to be an illegal immigrant on the other hand it is illegal and you know medical school admissions ask for tons of information about proof of citizenship and residence it's not really fair that some can just bypass all that , I guess that's why it's a good debate if I was in their situation I don't know if I could handle it but bottom line is there's a lot of hard working legal
citizens who deserve those oppeetunities, bottom line it's a good debate but I've understood both dudes this whole time bottom line, it's a rough cycle for most were all a little vulnerable

Unless I'm mistaken, only 1 school admits undocumented students. It's a handful of seats out of thousands!!

 

[RedSox143]

Unless I'm mistaken, only 1 school admits undocumented students. It's a handful of seats out of thousands!!

I was unaware but I'm glad I posted this so that I could know that.

 

[TheLionheart]

All I read was "I'm in no way against immigration except when it affects me". Do you support illegal immigrants working low-paid jobs? I'm sure there are many American's that don't support this because it affects them directly. To them, those jobs are competitive. You have to pick a side, you're either supportive of immigrants or your not.

In my opinion, the most qualified students should be accepted to medical school, period. If someone was brought here or arrived here illegally, and have become competitive enough to earn admission to a US medical school, they have my support. Medical school is about creating doctors, not about being fair to american college graduates.

100% agree with the above.

Because he's upset that "They took eerr jerrbs"

This deserves more attention.

YOU ARE SPOT ON THANK YOU, great point what about the people who immigrated here legally recently, working hard to earn citizenship, I wonder how they feel about this

I'll tell you exactly how we feel about it. My family was fortunate enough to be granted asylum by the United States for persecution we faced in the Middle East. Luckily, we got out relatively unscathed. One of my uncles, on the other hand, was not so lucky. Despite years of trying to immigrate legally to the United States, no progress was being made for him or his family. Why? Because it's an insanely difficult and expensive process to legally enter the United States that requires more than a bit of luck. One day, he was kidnapped off the streets of Baghdad by a terrorist group. For 4 months, he was tortured daily and held for ransom. He had to endure electrocutions, finger nails being ripped off, cigarette burns, etc. Now--thankfully--he's in the United States with his family, but all in all, it took them more than a decade of paperwork, fees, and serious effort on our part here in the US to get their request approved. In high school, I worked at a car wash. The Hispanics I worked with were some of the most hard working individuals I had ever met. They're here in America, and they are happy to clean your filthy car and earn a living wage that lets them support their family. I can tell you that this attitude was not shared by most of the natural US citizens that I also worked with.

The attitudes held by you and select others in this thread are all too common. Quite frankly, you take your US citizenship for granted. You don't understand what it is to grow up in a place where your existence is routinely threatened, whether it be by ruthless organizations like ISIS or by crushing poverty that you simply cannot fight against. Knowing what I know, and having seen what I have seen, I totally understand, and sympathize with, immigrants coming here illegally. America is truly the land of opportunity, especially if you're coming from a land of no opportunity, as many of us are.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I was unaware but I'm glad I posted this so that I could know that.

http://www.stritch.luc.edu/daca

 

[RedSox143]

100% agree with the above.



This deserves more attention.



I'll tell you exactly how we feel about it. My family was fortunate enough to be granted asylum by the United States for persecution we faced in the Middle East. Luckily, we got out relatively unscathed. One of my uncles, on the other hand, was not so lucky. Despite years of trying to immigrate legally to the United States, no progress was being made for him or his family. Why? Because it's an insanely difficult and expensive process to legally enter the United States that requires more than a bit of luck. One day, he was kidnapped off the streets of Baghdad by a terrorist group. For 4 months, he was tortured daily and held for ransom. He had to endure electrocutions, finger nails being ripped off, cigarette burns, etc. Now--thankfully--he's in the United States with his family, but all in all, it took them more than a decade of paperwork, fees, and serious effort on our part here in the US to get their request approved. In high school, I worked at a car wash. The Hispanics I worked with were some of the most hard working individuals I had ever met. They're here in America, and they are happy to clean your filthy car and earn a living wage that lets them support their family. I can tell you that this attitude was not shared by most of the natural US citizens that I also worked with.

The attitudes held by you and select others in this thread are all too common. Quite frankly, you take your US citizenship for granted. You don't understand what it is to grow up in a place where your existence is routinely threatened, whether it be by ruthless organizations like ISIS or by crushing poverty that you simply cannot fight against. Knowing what I know, and having seen what I have seen, I totally understand, and sympathize with, immigrants coming here illegally. America is truly the land of opportunity, especially if you're coming from a land of no opportunity, as many of us are.

That mentality "the land of opportunity" is outdated and I wish it still existed but it doesn't

 

[Aerus]

That mentality "the land of opportunity" is outdated and I wish it still existed but it doesn't

Did you grow up sheltered? Do you have any idea how bad it is in other countries? We aren't in the greatest situation right now, but we are faring A LOT better than many other countries. If I lived in Mexico, Asia, Africa, etc., even after knowing the situation in the US, I would STILL consider this country the land of opportunity.

You have an opportunity to become a doctor right? The opportunity that you believe should be only given to you and no one else? Privilege isn't a bad thing to have, but it's your duty as a decent human being to try and not let it blind you.

 

[DermViser]

All I read was "I'm in no way against immigration except when it affects me". Do you support illegal immigrants working low-paid jobs? I'm sure there are many American's that don't support this because it affects them directly. To them, those jobs are competitive. You have to pick a side, you're either supportive of immigrants or your not.

In my opinion, the most qualified students should be accepted to medical school, period. If someone was brought here or arrived here illegally, and have become competitive enough to earn admission to a US medical school, they have my support. Medical school is about creating doctors, not about being fair to american college graduates.

Many medical schools are supported by state tax dollars. Also I hope you feel this same way when it comes to residency match positions as well when you get to be an MS-4. If not, you're a hypocrite.

 

[TheLionheart]

That mentality "the land of opportunity" is outdated and I wish it still existed but it doesn't

Is it outdated?

We came to America with $70. In Iraq, my father and grandfather owned hotels. My mom was a highly trained veterinarian. When we came to America, my mom had to give up her dream, and she took a job working 9-5 for the county. My dad also got a job working for the district attorney's office as a paralegal 9 to 5. And worked nights at a liquor store. And worked weekends vacuuming cars at a carwash. In that first month, we had our first apartment. After 3 years, we had our first house. Now, my parents are small business owners, and we are happy, middle-class Americans. This is the land of opportunity, and if you think that isn't the case then I challenge you to spend time outside of this country. Hell, just read about life outside of this country. Google ISIS and read about the mass executions of hundreds children, or the horrific cartel violence in Mexico, or even the Ebola epidemic in Africa. Do you think it's a coincidence that none of these things are happening in America?

 

[LA1004]

American schools (mostly) accept American applicants to train American doctors.

Do you have any idea how much money it costs to graduate a physician? Why run the risk of wasting enormous amounts of resources on a person that may be deported or choose to return to his/her home country?

Right, there are several risks associated with allowing illegal immigrants to apply. But still, many stalwart US citizens waste millions of dollars to get trained then are busted after doing something illegal such as overprescribing narcotics, doing drugs, etc. Dr. McNeill is a classic recent example of this. Thus, let's widen the pool and allow anyone who is competitive try his luck in the process.

 

[RedSox143]

Did you grow up sheltered? Do you have any idea how bad it is in other countries? We aren't in the greatest situation right now, but we are faring A LOT better than many other countries. If I lived in Mexico, Asia, Africa, etc., even after knowing the situation in the US, I would STILL consider this country the land of opportunity.

You have an opportunity to become a doctor right? The opportunity that you believe should be only given to you and no one else? Privilege isn't a bad thing to have, but it's your duty as a decent human being to try and not let it blind you.

Yeah yeah it's like that argument when your 6 years old and your moms like "hey eat that broccoli , people in Africa would kill for that" if people lived like that every day there's be no problems ever, if I compared myself to the situation in Syria everyday is live a great day everyday, if you can do that great, I can't, bottom line I understand the struggles of others and yes it gives perspective but bottom line is we can't think that idealistically everyday sorry I can't. I get your point but it's a bit idealistic I wish I could think like that everyday and bottom line the majority can't if I could I wouldn't be posting , you're lucky you can and I wish I grew up sheltered and wasn't this cynical but I've seen first hand that liars and cheaters seem to get further than good people a lot but it's not predominant bottom line your calling me out for being sheltered when your perceiving everyone in the world has this idealistic moral perspective but truth is no one really does

 

[DermViser]

Can you link the article so we can read it?

http://blogs.kqed.org/stateofhealth...undocumented-medical-student-begins-training/

 

[DermViser]

Have you ever talked to any undocumented immigrants? You make it sound so simple...

Undocumented what does that mean exactly? They just forget their documents or don't have it on them at the moment?

 

[RedSox143]

One more thing if the AAMC didn't promote this live online I would have probably not even noticed, so I don't think they should like publicize it

 

[DermViser]

Hey now, as long as @PL198 isn't personally attacking people there is no reason to ban him, even if you (like me) don't agree with a lot of what he posts. This is a forum for discussion, and this is America.

SDN is not, and I hope it never becomes, a place where we can only hear the views of the majority.

THIS.

 

[DermViser]

One more thing if the AAMC didn't promote this live online I would have probably not even noticed, so I don't think they should like publicize it

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/arti...till-alone-in-enrolling-undocumented-students

I like this part:
The University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine in Hyde Park doesn't have students with DACA status, but they can apply as international students, a spokesman says. Experts say international students must be issued a student visa to study—an obstacle for undocumented students because they are living illegally in the U.S.

A spokeswoman for Northwestern University's Feinberg School of Medicine says the school has no plans to admit undocumented students.

 

[Purplownz]

100% agree with the above.



This deserves more attention.



I'll tell you exactly how we feel about it. My family was fortunate enough to be granted asylum by the United States for persecution we faced in the Middle East. Luckily, we got out relatively unscathed. One of my uncles, on the other hand, was not so lucky. Despite years of trying to immigrate legally to the United States, no progress was being made for him or his family. Why? Because it's an insanely difficult and expensive process to legally enter the United States that requires more than a bit of luck. One day, he was kidnapped off the streets of Baghdad by a terrorist group. For 4 months, he was tortured daily and held for ransom. He had to endure electrocutions, finger nails being ripped off, cigarette burns, etc. Now--thankfully--he's in the United States with his family, but all in all, it took them more than a decade of paperwork, fees, and serious effort on our part here in the US to get their request approved. In high school, I worked at a car wash. The Hispanics I worked with were some of the most hard working individuals I had ever met. They're here in America, and they are happy to clean your filthy car and earn a living wage that lets them support their family. I can tell you that this attitude was not shared by most of the natural US citizens that I also worked with.

The attitudes held by you and select others in this thread are all too common. Quite frankly, you take your US citizenship for granted. You don't understand what it is to grow up in a place where your existence is routinely threatened, whether it be by ruthless organizations like ISIS or by crushing poverty that you simply cannot fight against. Knowing what I know, and having seen what I have seen, I totally understand, and sympathize with, immigrants coming here illegally. America is truly the land of opportunity, especially if you're coming from a land of no opportunity, as many of us are.

Yeah, and what do you propose we do? Take the 2-3+ billion people on this planet who live in poverty and dangerous environments and bring them here? And if you're not willing to accept each and every one of those people, how would you devise an equitable system that decides who gets to come?

 

[RedSox143]

Yeah, and what do you propose we do? Take the 2-3+ billion people on this planet who live in poverty and dangerous environments and bring them here? And if you're not willing to accept each and every one of those people, how would you devise an equitable system that decides who gets to come?

EXACTLY there's no easy solution and there is a serious issue

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Undocumented what does that mean exactly? They just forget their documents or don't have it on them at the moment?

Does illegal sound better to you?

 

[PL198]

Does illegal sound better to you?

It's not about something sounding better, it's calling a spade a spade. They are illegal immigrants.

 

[DermViser]

Does illegal sound better to you?

Yes it actually does. Or illegal immigrant is fine. If I'm in France, and I don't have my travel documents saying I can be there - guess what, I'm there ILLEGALLY. Period. An illegal immigrant didn't misplace his documents, he doesn't have them for a reason, bc he is here illegally.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Yeah yeah it's like that argument when your 6 years old and your moms like "hey eat that broccoli , people in Africa would kill for that" if people lived like that every day there's be no problems ever, if I compared myself to the situation in Syria everyday is live a great day everyday, if you can do that great, I can't, bottom line I understand the struggles of others and yes it gives perspective but bottom line is we can't think that idealistically everyday sorry I can't. I get your point but it's a bit idealistic I wish I could think like that everyday and bottom line the majority can't if I could I wouldn't be posting , you're lucky you can and I wish I grew up sheltered and wasn't this cynical but I've seen first hand that liars and cheaters seem to get further than good people a lot but it's not predominant bottom line your calling me out for being sheltered when your perceiving everyone in the world has this idealistic moral perspective but truth is no one really does

Your grammar and sentence structure is atrocious. Also, listen to yourself. The bolded parts clearly show you have no ounce of true empathy for illegal immigrants or people who grew up in worse conditions than you. I'm so angry that you refuse to even try to understand someone else's very different point of view and life situation. Bottom line, you're going to be a terrible doctor because you lack empathy. People like you disgust me. Why is it bad to think idealistically? Why is it bad to think in a way that is different from the "majority"? Doctors are supposed to be leaders, and leaders don't think only about themselves. Leaders think about and care deeply for the people they lead and serve, and to do this, you must be open to all backgrounds and cultures and show true empathy toward everyone.

I'm sorry, everyone else. I admit that one of my weaknesses is that I get too angry sometimes.

 

[DermViser]

Right, there are several risks associated with allowing illegal immigrants to apply. But still, many stalwart US citizens waste millions of dollars to get trained then are busted after doing something illegal such as overprescribing narcotics, doing drugs, etc. Dr. McNeill is a classic recent example of this. Thus, let's widen the pool and allow anyone who is competitive try his luck in the process.

So this is your reason to let illegal immigrants apply to U.S. medical schools? You think the bolded won't happen with them?

 

[Aerus]

if I compared myself to the situation in Syria everyday is live a great day everyday, if you can do that great, I can't,

You mean empathy? Gratitude?

 

[DermViser]

Your grammar and sentence structure is atrocious. Also, listen to yourself. The bolded parts clearly show you have no ounce of true empathy for illegal immigrants or people who grew up in worse conditions than you. I'm so angry that you refuse to even try to understand someone else's very different point of view and life situation. Bottom line, you're going to be a terrible doctor because you lack empathy. People like you disgust me. Why is it bad to think idealistically? Why is it bad to think in a way that is different from the "majority"? Doctors are supposed to be leaders, and leaders don't think only about themselves. Leaders think about and care deeply for the people they lead and serve, and to do this, you must be open to all backgrounds and cultures and show true empathy toward everyone.

I'm sorry, everyone else. I admit that one of my weaknesses is that I get too angry sometimes.

And Burnett's law has been invoked.

 

[TheLionheart]

Yeah, and what do you propose we do? Take the 2-3+ billion people on this planet who live in poverty and dangerous environments and bring them here? And if you're not willing to accept each and every one of those people, how would you devise an equitable system that decides who gets to come?

I'm here to become a physician, not a policy maker. I freely admit that I don't know the solution to the problem. I simply stated that I understand the desire to be in America, legally or illegally. I never suggested that America must house billions of extra people, that's ludicrous. You're not responding to anything I actually said, just trying to belittle my statement by putting words in my mouth. OP wanted to know what people who came here legally thought about illegal immigrants. I gave him the opinion of one of those people.

 

[PL198]

Your grammar and sentence structure is atrocious. Also, listen to yourself. The bolded parts clearly show you have no ounce of true empathy for illegal immigrants or people who grew up in worse conditions than you. I'm so angry that you refuse to even try to understand someone else's very different point of view and life situation. Bottom line, you're going to be a terrible doctor because you lack empathy. People like you disgust me. Why is it bad to think idealistically? Why is it bad to think in a way that is different from the "majority"? Doctors are supposed to be leaders, and leaders don't think only about themselves. Leaders think about and care deeply for the people they lead and serve, and to do this, you must be open to all backgrounds and cultures and show true empathy toward everyone.

I'm sorry, everyone else. I admit that one of my weaknesses is that I get too angry sometimes.

lol this is hilarious. save it for your poli-sci class chief.

 

[DermViser]

Someone who's been here for over a decade (and in some cases 2 decades) usually has minimal ties to their country of origin. They are just as likely as (almost) anyone else to stay or leave.
And what enormous resources are you referring to? We spend a bajillion dollars on so much crap. Giving out a few med school loans to immigrant kids is not gonna be felt by anyone (it's a microscopic amount of $).
And currently, only 1 school allows this. And they're pretty much banking on a dem to maintain the WH in 2017 (which seems very likely).

Edit: A school can simply require these students to work with medically underserved populations for x years.

Everyone feels that the govt. spending on them doesn't contribute anything and is microscopic in amount. It's why we are in the position we are today when it comes to federal debt.

 

[PL198]

And Burnett's law has been invoked.

it's funny too because it's not like it's people with any credibility saying it(oh like someone that's actually a doctor), someone that hasn't even been to medical school and probably has about 0 clue about what empathy in a clinical sense is.

Scroll up this page or the next one, there's a really funny non-trad pre-med pulling superiority. not even a non-trad med student, a non-trad pre-med.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

It's not about something sounding better, it's calling a spade a spade. They are illegal immigrants.

I'm perfectly fine with the word "illegal" if ppl can have an informed and intelligent discussion about this.
But many don't seem to understand that it's a sickening, dystopian reality for childhood arrivals. For some, it's the equivalent of being "kidnapped" by your own parents and being sentenced to decades of substandard living.

But yeah, a few med school seats...

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Everyone feels that the govt. spending on them doesn't contribute anything and is microscopic in amount. It's why we are in the position we are today when it comes to federal debt.

And unnecessary wars have nothing to do with it?!
Fine, we'll fix the debt by banning Loyola from admitting a few students.

 

[RedSox143]

You mean empathy? Gratitude?

You let me know if you wake up everyday and say "wow life is great I'm not in Syria" cuz I gaurintee you don't

 

[PL198]

I'm perfectly fine with the word "illegal" if ppl can have an informed and intelligent discussion about this.
But many don't seem to understand that it's a sickening, dystopian reality for childhood arrivals. For some, it's the equivalent of being "kidnapped" by your own parents and being sentenced to decades of substandard living.

But yeah, a few med school seats...

that's their parent's fault, not mine. the fact that their parents do that to them has 0 effect on my ability to carry out a discussion how I'd like to. honestly you guys are going to need to do better logically for journal clubs and stuff where you need reasonable critiques of each other, and if you BS it, your preceptor will call you out on it. you can't say someone doesn't understand just because they don't agree with you. it's completely possible to empathize with illegal immigrants and still think they shouldn't be allowed admittance into medical school. you don't win an argument by trying to shame people into your point. " yeah the only way you have empathy for illegals is to support them being med students." no.

 

[DermViser]

I'm perfectly fine with the word "illegal" if ppl can have an informed and intelligent discussion about this.
But many don't seem to understand that it's a sickening, dystopian reality for childhood arrivals. For some, it's the equivalent of being "kidnapped" by your own parents and being sentenced to decades of substandard living.

But yeah, a few med school seats...

Medical school has a set number of seats. Period. It is finite. You can't take any more than that. State medical schools are also funded by local taxpayers for providers for their community and medical students take federal loans. This isn't the Carribbean where they can take 700 people. State medical schools are accountable to the public taxpayer. Taking an illegal immigrant, means one less American med student got the chance to go to that med school.

 

[PL198]

And unnecessary wars have nothing to do with it?!
Fine, we'll fix the debt by banning Loyola from admitting a few students.

this is another example, you keep trying to turn the discussion away from someone's critique of you. it's clear that war and defense spending is a big part of the national debt, but that isn't in the scope of this discussion. every little bit counts, and the aspect we are discussing now is very real.

 

[TheLionheart]

it's funny too because it's not like it's people with any credibility saying it(oh like someone that's actually a doctor), someone that hasn't even been to medical school and probably has about 0 clue about what empathy in a clinical sense is.

Scroll up this page or the next one, there's a really funny non-trad pre-med pulling superiority. not even a non-trad med student, a non-trad pre-med.

Your sense of superiority is gag inducing. You know exactly two things about that "non-trad pre-med"--that he's a non-trad and a pre-med. You don't know anything else about his life, or his experiences with empathy. You're a medical student, which by your definition above, does not lend you much credibility since you're not a doctor.

 

[PL198]

Medical school has a set number of seats. Period. It is finite. You can't take any more than that. State medical schools are also funded by local taxpayers for providers for their community and medical students take federal loans. This isn't the Carribbean where they can take 700 people. State medical schools are accountable to the public taxpayer. Taking an illegal immigrant, means one less American med student got the chance to go to that med school.

lol ie even more redistribution of wealth from people who paid taxes, to people that don't.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Medical school has a set number of seats. Period. It is finite. You can't take any more than that. State medical schools are also funded by local taxpayers for providers for their community and medical students take federal loans. This isn't the Carribbean where they can take 700 people. State medical schools are accountable to the public taxpayer. Taking an illegal immigrant, means one less American med student got the chance to go to that med school.

How tragic, let's call the border patrol.

 

[Aerus]

You let me know if you wake up everyday and say "wow life is great I'm not in Syria" cuz I gaurintee you don't

I appreciate every day that I'm in America not having to scour for food in jungles, being stricken by epidemics because I love my family, walk 20 miles a day in order to receive an education that can't even be compared to a high school tutor in the USA, and not be at risk for being killed by bombs on a daily basis. And that's only in one country I'm describing. I am grateful for what I have in the USA, recognize my privilege as a natural US citizen, and am honored to have the opportunity to pursue higher education in one of the best universities in the world. I am definitely not ever entitled to ever become a doctor over someone else who has it a million times worse than I do, works way harder than I do for education, and was simply unlucky enough to not be born here/not have the connections to come here "legally".

That is gratitude and empathy. I'm not asking you to be pro-amnesty. I'm saying just be a decent human being.

 

[PL198]

Your sense of superiority is gag inducing. You know exactly two things about that "non-trad pre-med"--that he's a non-trad and a pre-med. You don't know anything else about his life, or his experiences with empathy. You're a medical student, which by your definition above, does not lend you much credibility since you're not a doctor.

exactly. except I'm not making outlandish statements about someone's career possibilities based on their views. that's the key difference you should realize. I don't feel the need to tell you that xyz quality won't allow you to pass to the next level. I have no idea if you will or not

 

[DermViser]

And unnecessary wars have nothing to do with it?!
Fine, we'll fix the debt by banning Loyola from admitting a few students.

Actually the MUCH BIGGER drivers of our federal debt in greater magnitudes is Medicare and Medicaid. This is a FACT acknowledged by both sides of the political aisle. Guess what --- Medicare funds your residency positions which is REQUIRED in order for you to practice as a physician in this country. And President Obama has put GME on the chopping block esp. by the time you get there. Hope you enjoy how hard it will be to get a residency by the time you get there.

 

[PL198]

I appreciate every day that I'm in America not having to scour for food in jungles, being stricken by epidemics because I love my family, walk 20 miles a day in order to receive an education that can't even be compared to a high school tutor in the USA, not being killed by bombs. And that's only in one country I'm describing. I am grateful for what I have in the USA, recognize my privilege as a natural US citizen, and am honored to have the opportunity to pursue higher education in one of the best universities in the world. I am definitely not ever entitled to ever become a doctor over someone else who has it a million times worse than I do, works way harder than I do for education, and was simply unlucky enough to not be born here/not have the connections to come here "legally".

That is gratitude and empathy. I'm not asking you to be pro-amnesty. I'm saying just be a decent human being.

see. look, you guys just cant stop. now someone isn't a decent human being if they dont agree with you. can you honestly objectively look at what you just wrote and have it pass the sniff test? someone isn't a decent human being if they don't agree with you? this is the stuff I'm talking about, utter BS that you guys are going to have to get rid of real fast.

 

[Aerus]

see. look, you guys just cant stop. now someone isn't a decent human being if they dont agree with you. can you honestly objectively look at what you just wrote and have it pass the sniff test? someone isn't a decent human being if they don't agree with you? this is the stuff I'm talking about, utter BS that you guys are going to have to get rid of real fast.

Did you even read what I said at all?

 

[PL198]

Did you even read what I said at all?

"I'm saying just be a decent human being."

Any time you say that to someone else in a discussion/debate, you have automatically lost. It's a plea on emotion which = loss . You're not the emotional authority and you don't get to judge someone and if they're a "decent human being" simply for disagreeing with you.