It's been years. I'm still stuck between MD/DO or PA.

[Cemetra]

apologies in advance for the rant

Quick info:
- 28-year-old male majoring with a BA in Philosophy with a minor in nutrition
- 3 associate degrees (if that matters) in sociology, psychology, and biology
- GPA of ~ 3.8, sGPA of ~ 3.7
- NO MCAT YET
- PURSUING RURAL MEDICINE
- Very supportive girlfriend and future wife that's an ER nurse
- Over 2,000 hours as an EMT for 911 and private services
- Cool stories with patient care. Delivered a baby in an ambulance once!
- Own a small non-profit that donates educational material throughout the US
- Little research experience (1 project) without a publication
- Good LOR's from 2 professor's so far that I can count on
- Decent EC's: STEM club, few scholarships, made the school paper a few times, volunteer almost weekly
- ~ 300 total volunteer hours between multiple organizations (including my non-profit)

I will be graduating college at 30, so I'm at a loss on choosing between PA or MD/DO.

PA pros: Good career that I think I can fulfill my desires in medicine with. Being in charge is neither a pro or con to me. I would finish at about 32, meaning I could still devote a good bit of time to starting a family, building a home, and investing, amongst other things. I have a lot of hobbies outside medicine, so PA would help me continually pursue them.

PA cons: Oversaturation. Tons of NP's graduating each year. More and more PA's graduating. I think this will impact pay and job outlook, although it may take 6-8 years to do so. I think the whole "switching specialties" comment is a bit overblown. I'm not going to do ortho for 10 years and then want to settle down and retire away into derm, for example. I may be wrong about this, though. Rural medicine means I will more than likely have a lot of responsibility. I have a friend who's a PA who runs an entire ER by himself on nights and gets paid 1/3 of what the doctor does. I think I might turn 45 one day and regret that I didn't just suck it up and go to medical school. I like being an expert on things and my opinion to be taken seriously, which may not always be the case as a PA, although it depends on the culture of the work.

MD/DO pros: after residency, there's a lot of flexibility from my understanding. If you make it clear you want to work X schedule, simply don't accept a job that doesn't abide by that, for example. Better pay. Better recognition. No "what-if" questions about had I gone to medical school. Better care for patients at least in terms of my understanding and ability to treat them. We NEED more doctors, especially where I'm from in rural Georgia. I love teaching and would be able to do so at a higher level as a doctor. I know medicine contains a lot of personalities, but I can assure that I would be one to always teach when possible, be the best patient advocate (I seriously cannot stand when people give up on patients too early, especially in life or death circumstances), and hopefully a sort of positive light to the culture I'm a part of. Being an expert in a field would be awesome. I think medical school and residency would be a grind, but I've worked 80-hour-weeks in construction making $10/hour while studying prerequisite courses. I think a lot of traditional students haven't experienced this and may hate the transition. I'm more used to it given my background. I'm fine with more of a logistics type of roll and don't need a ton of patient contact, per se, although I do enjoy it.

MD/DO cons: I would be in my 30's while in medical school and planning to have children after Step 1. I'm hoping I would be able to treat medical school like 8-10 hours of studying per day, 6-7 days a week, meaning I would still be able to spend good time with my wife and children, but this very well may not be the case. I may match into a less-competitive specialty and not make as much. Between "I regret going the MD route" and "I regret going the PA route", I would think I'd regret the MD route more given the comparison in sacrifices one has to make. Healthcare as a whole could change drastically. More responsibility, meaning I'm responsible for those under me, even incompetent providers. More stress. Higher chances of getting sued.

I've actually been between the two choices for years, but as I'm getting closer, I've found that I'm just as lost as I was originally. I'm an extremely stoic person. Things don't bother me very often. I think a lot of people complain about trivial things. I'm typing this now on a $1,200 computer. I have a girlfriend that I know I'll marry. I'm happy and healthy, while she is too and so is my family. I have a nice car. I have food. I have shelter. I have a warm shower. I have clean water. I spend about 50-hours-a week between classes and work right now and, although it can be stressful (especially approaching finals), I'm content in life. My friends are getting married and having children. I'm happy for them, but don't feel the pressure of missing out. The other half of my friends are drinking and partying. I don't feel like I'm missing out there either. The "grind" itself really isn't that bad for me, personally. This isn't to say it comes easy. I'm actually a slow learner, but I just don't mind studying for long hours. I have no idea, guys/gals. I doubt anyone even read this far, but I'm just seeking some opinions from my internet friends.

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[MyOdyssey]

I apologize if I missed it but have you taken all basic premed prerequisites including 2 semesters of gen chemistry with lab, 2 semesters of orgo with lab, 1 semester of biochem and 2 semesters of physics with lab? Have you fulfilled the 2 semester college writing requirement that many med schools require?

How are you doing on your practice MCATs?

 

[jhmmd]

apologies in advance for the rant

Quick info:
- 28-year-old male majoring with a BA in Philosophy with a minor in nutrition
- 3 associate degrees (if that matters) in sociology, psychology, and biology
- GPA of ~ 3.8, sGPA of ~ 3.7
- NO MCAT YET
- PURSUING RURAL MEDICINE
- Very supportive girlfriend and future wife that's an ER nurse
- Over 2,000 hours as an EMT for 911 and private services
- Cool stories with patient care. Delivered a baby in an ambulance once!
- Own a small non-profit that donates educational material throughout the US
- Little research experience (1 project) without a publication
- Good LOR's from 2 professor's so far that I can count on
- Decent EC's: STEM club, few scholarships, made the school paper a few times, volunteer almost weekly
- ~ 300 total volunteer hours between multiple organizations (including my non-profit)

I will be graduating college at 30, so I'm at a loss on choosing between PA or MD/DO.

PA pros: Good career that I think I can fulfill my desires in medicine with. Being in charge is neither a pro or con to me. I would finish at about 32, meaning I could still devote a good bit of time to starting a family, building a home, and investing, amongst other things. I have a lot of hobbies outside medicine, so PA would help me continually pursue them.

PA cons: Oversaturation. Tons of NP's graduating each year. More and more PA's graduating. I think this will impact pay and job outlook, although it may take 6-8 years to do so. I think the whole "switching specialties" comment is a bit overblown. I'm not going to do ortho for 10 years and then want to settle down and retire away into derm, for example. I may be wrong about this, though. Rural medicine means I will more than likely have a lot of responsibility. I have a friend who's a PA who runs an entire ER by himself on nights and gets paid 1/3 of what the doctor does. I think I might turn 45 one day and regret that I didn't just suck it up and go to medical school. I like being an expert on things and my opinion to be taken seriously, which may not always be the case as a PA, although it depends on the culture of the work.

MD/DO pros: after residency, there's a lot of flexibility from my understanding. If you make it clear you want to work X schedule, simply don't accept a job that doesn't abide by that, for example. Better pay. Better recognition. No "what-if" questions about had I gone to medical school. Better care for patients at least in terms of my understanding and ability to treat them. We NEED more doctors, especially where I'm from in rural Georgia. I love teaching and would be able to do so at a higher level as a doctor. I know medicine contains a lot of personalities, but I can assure that I would be one to always teach when possible, be the best patient advocate (I seriously cannot stand when people give up on patients too early, especially in life or death circumstances), and hopefully a sort of positive light to the culture I'm a part of. Being an expert in a field would be awesome. I think medical school and residency would be a grind, but I've worked 80-hour-weeks in construction making $10/hour while studying prerequisite courses. I think a lot of traditional students haven't experienced this and may hate the transition. I'm more used to it given my background. I'm fine with more of a logistics type of roll and don't need a ton of patient contact, per se, although I do enjoy it.

MD/DO cons: I would be in my 30's while in medical school and planning to have children after Step 1. I'm hoping I would be able to treat medical school like 8-10 hours of studying per day, 6-7 days a week, meaning I would still be able to spend good time with my wife and children, but this very well may not be the case. I may match into a less-competitive specialty and not make as much. Between "I regret going the MD route" and "I regret going the PA route", I would think I'd regret the MD route more given the comparison in sacrifices one has to make. Healthcare as a whole could change drastically. More responsibility, meaning I'm responsible for those under me, even incompetent providers. More stress. Higher chances of getting sued.

I've actually been between the two choices for years, but as I'm getting closer, I've found that I'm just as lost as I was originally. I'm an extremely stoic person. Things don't bother me very often. I think a lot of people complain about trivial things. I'm typing this now on a $1,200 computer. I have a girlfriend that I know I'll marry. I'm happy and healthy, while she is too and so is my family. I have a nice car. I have food. I have shelter. I have a warm shower. I have clean water. I spend about 50-hours-a week between classes and work right now and, although it can be stressful (especially approaching finals), I'm content in life. My friends are getting married and having children. I'm happy for them, but don't feel the pressure of missing out. The other half of my friends are drinking and partying. I don't feel like I'm missing out there either. The "grind" itself really isn't that bad for me, personally. This isn't to say it comes easy. I'm actually a slow learner, but I just don't mind studying for long hours. I have no idea, guys/gals. I doubt anyone even read this far, but I'm just seeking some opinions from my internet friends.

You need to adjust your attitude--medicine is a team sport.
What is your GPA? Taken any practice MCATs yet?
Come back here with some solid numbers and we can give you a more detailed response.

 

[MyOdyssey]

An information packed thread on rural medicine programs in MD schools:

Rural medical schools?

Hello. I am posting this in the MD section but this question is for ALL medical schools. Are there any in a more rural area? I know cities provide amazing resources and opportunities, but I am from a city, currently living in a more rural community and love it. I plan to practice medicine in a...

forums.studentdoctor.net

If you show demonstrated interest in rural medicine, it can help you win admission.

Have you done anything to show interest in rural medicine?

 

[Cemetra]

I apologize if I missed it but have you take all basic premed prerequisites including 2 semesters of gen chemistry with lab, 2 semesters of orgo with lab, 1 semester of biochem and 2 semesters of physics with lab? Have you fulfilled the 2 semester college writing requirement that many med schools require?

How are you doing on your practice MCATs?

You're fine! I haven't taken all my prerequisites yet. I'm missing physics I & II, organic I & II, and biochem. I used to work a really high-paying corporate job and left, but ended up taking my freshman year completely online to save up before leaving. I was able to pay off my home in the process, so I can get by on 24-hours a week as an EMT currently, but this caused me to not take any science prerequisites until sophomore year. I end up finishing my degree in a fall semester, so I could either take the MCAT immediately after graduating and (I believe) still make it by the next admissions cycle or may need a gap year. I haven't taken practice MCATs yet since I've only taken bio II, bio II, chem I, chem II, microbiology, cell biology, A&P I and A&P II.

 

[Cemetra]

An information packed thread on rural medicine programs in MD schools:

Rural medical schools?

Hello. I am posting this in the MD section but this question is for ALL medical schools. Are there any in a more rural area? I know cities provide amazing resources and opportunities, but I am from a city, currently living in a more rural community and love it. I plan to practice medicine in a...

forums.studentdoctor.net

If you show demonstrated interest in rural medicine, it can help you win admission.

Have you done anything to show interest in rural medicine?

I'm from a rural county in South Georgia and would like to continue my career in the surrounding areas, all of which are underserved. I work as an EMT in a rural, underserved area as well and volunteer locally. I'm not sure if this would be considered good enough as a proof of an interest in rural medicine, though. I'd believe so, but I'm also quite ignorant on it. Also, thank you so much for the link!

 

[MyOdyssey]

You're fine! I haven't taken all my prerequisites yet. I'm missing physics I & II, organic I & II, and biochem. I used to work a really high-paying corporate job and left, but ended up taking my freshman year completely online to save up before leaving. I was able to pay off my home in the process, so I can get by on 24-hours a week as an EMT currently, but this caused me to not take any science prerequisites until sophomore year. I end up finishing my degree in a fall semester, so I could either take the MCAT immediately after graduating and (I believe) still make it by the next admissions cycle or may need a gap year. I haven't taken practice MCATs yet since I've only taken bio II, bio II, chem I, chem II, microbiology, cell biology, A&P I and A&P II.

Biochem is the most heavily tested subject on the MCAT. You definitely want to take that first before taking the MCAT.

Make sure you're consistently hitting your target MCAT score on practice exams before taking the real thing.

 

[Cemetra]

You need to adjust your attitude--medicine is a team sport.
What is your GPA? Taken any practice MCATs yet?
Come back here with some solid numbers and we can give you a more detailed response.

I didn't mean for it to sound like I think medicine isn't a team sport. Could you let me know where you got that from so I can avoid sounding like an ass in the future? I know the whole post is self-centered about my future endeavors, but can assure you I wasn't trying to sound gross. My current GPA is a 3.87 (just checked) and science GPA (ball-park) is about a 3.7. Granted, I have not taken orgo I, orgo II, biochemistry, physics I or physics II. Because of this, I haven't taken practice MCATs yet. So this may not really help, since I haven't taken enough prerequisites to give you some solid numbers. I mentioned this above, but I left a great job, but before doing so, I took my freshman year online (only core classes, no sciences), so I'm about a year behind on my sciences.

 

[Cemetra]

Biochem is the most heavily tested subject on the MCAT. You definitely want to take that first before taking the MCAT.

Make sure you're consistently hitting your target MCAT score on practice exams before taking the real thing.

I have two friends that both emphasized this, so I was going to make sure I had a solid foundation in biochemistry before taking the MCAT, even if it means taking a gap year. I'm a pretty slow learner and feel like I may end up needing a gap year anyways since I'm finishing biochemistry my last semester on top of it. Thank you for the advice. I've found practice test questions to be crucial in bettering my understanding of material.

 

[jhmmd]

I didn't mean for it to sound like I think medicine isn't a team sport. Could you let me know where you got that from so I can avoid sounding like an ass in the future? I know the whole post is self-centered about my future endeavors, but can assure you I wasn't trying to sound gross. My current GPA is a 3.87 (just checked) and science GPA (ball-park) is about a 3.7. Granted, I have not taken orgo I, orgo II, biochemistry, physics I or physics II. Because of this, I haven't taken practice MCATs yet. So this may not really help, since I haven't taken enough prerequisites to give you some solid numbers. I mentioned this above, but I left a great job, but before doing so, I took my freshman year online (only core classes, no sciences), so I'm about a year behind on my sciences.

Well, like I said before--do well in your courses, put your nose to the grindstone, and come back here when you have the grades/MCAT. No one can make this decision for you.

 

[KnightDoc]

Well, like I said before--do well in your courses, put your nose to the grindstone, and come back here when you have the grades/MCAT. No one can make this decision for you.

THIS^^^^^. You have perspective as a 28 year old that 20 year olds just don't have. Due to your timeline, however, you'll also be around 5 years behind many of your potential classmates.

You have a great handle on the pros and cons, but without important prereqs and the MCAT, you still have no idea whether your prospects for MD/DO are good or bad. As a result, while rants are always welcome, it is premature to either seek or give actual advice.

Once you have your metrics, your can solicit opinions from strangers on whether the shorter, less expensive road with less upside or the alternative is right for you. At the end of the day, though, no one knows you like you know yourself and you have to live with the decision, so I'm not sure how much weight I'd give the thoughts of a bunch of strangers on the internet. Of course, as always, YMMV. Good luck on your journey. Your stoicism virtually guarantees whatever choice you make will make you happy since you seem to have a handle on the other keys to life.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

Can I reflect on this as someone on a similar timeline as you, albeit a very different path? I'm an MD/PhD student. Currently 29, unmarried, graduating at 33 and considering mostly subspecialty routes (i.e., long training pathway).

You need to gauge your ambitions and lay out the sacrifices you are willing to make for this profession right now. You will have more responsibility, more money, and more impact as a physician. You might also be more miserable, and you may never reach the heights of medicine you want to reach. The biggest thing here is these could not be more different paths in terms of how your life will go, even if they ultimately both involve training to provide patient care.

Think about your timeline and your limitations.

You start medical school at 30-31 years old and finish at 34-35. However, trying to keep that timeline means no research years, no extra resume building. Then you will likely be limited in specialty by time. Anything over 5-6 years will start to look unattractive. Surgery at academic centers will become basically undoable (5 years residency + 2 years research requirement + 1-3 years fellowship). Forget neurosurgery. Academic medicine will be a challenge, as you often take very low-paid positions at the start and build up for years. You'll also have less time to build a resume to move up in the ranks.

On the other hand, you say you are satisfied with rural medicine. Imagine graduating at 34, specializing in FM, and getting a primarily outpatient position in the rural midwest for $300K+ at 37. If rural medicine appeals to you, this could be a good life and would likely provide far more for you in terms of financial well-being and overall impact than being a PA ever could.

However, don't discount being a PA. The training pathway is far, far shorter, and you can still make a handsome income, even in metro areas. If you love the OR, you can be a first assist and, depending on specialty, make close to $200K. I'm unsure of how difficult those jobs are to obtain, though. You'll almost definitely have more time for your wife/kids. You'll be financially secure sooner. You and I both know how frustrating it is to have limited income as you approach 30. I imagine it's even worse as you approach 40. Giving up long term financial gains for more years without money as an omnipresent concern in your life could be very worthwhile.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Can I reflect on this as someone on a similar timeline as you, albeit a very different path? I'm an MD/PhD student. Currently 29, unmarried, graduating at 33 and considering mostly subspecialty routes (i.e., long training pathway).

You need to gauge your ambitions and lay out the sacrifices you are willing to make for this profession right now. You will have more responsibility, more money, and more impact as a physician. You might also be more miserable, and you may never reach the heights of medicine you want to reach. The biggest thing here is these could not be more different paths in terms of how your life will go, even if they ultimately both involve training to provide patient care.

Think about your timeline and your limitations.

You start medical school at 30-31 years old and finish at 34-35. However, trying to keep that timeline means no research years, no extra resume building. Then you will likely be limited in specialty by time. Anything over 5-6 years will start to look unattractive. Surgery at academic centers will become basically undoable (5 years residency + 2 years research requirement + 1-3 years fellowship). Forget neurosurgery. Academic medicine will be a challenge, as you often take very low-paid positions at the start and build up for years. You'll also have less time to build a resume to move up in the ranks.

On the other hand, you say you are satisfied with rural medicine. Imagine graduating at 34, specializing in FM, and getting a primarily outpatient position in the rural midwest for $300K+ at 37. If rural medicine appeals to you, this could be a good life and would likely provide far more for you in terms of financial well-being and overall impact than being a PA ever could.

However, don't discount being a PA. The training pathway is far, far shorter, and you can still make a handsome income, even in metro areas. If you love the OR, you can be a first assist and, depending on specialty, make close to $200K. I'm unsure of how difficult those jobs are to obtain, though. You'll almost definitely have more time for your wife/kids. You'll be financially secure sooner. You and I both know how frustrating it is to have limited income as you approach 30. I imagine it's even worse as you approach 40. Giving up long term financial gains for more years without money as an omnipresent concern in your life could be very worthwhile.

Slightly off-topic: how many gap research years did you take to have enough research in your portfolio to be attractive to MD/PhD programs?

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

Slightly off-topic: how many gap research years did you take to have enough research in your portfolio to be attractive to MD/PhD programs?

I took two years. However, it's worth noting that I was "late" to medicine. I did absolutely nothing biomedical during college, and I took an industry position where I was able to publish a first author paper and a patent. If you know from the start you want to do MD/PhD, and you can get a publication prior to graduation, you don't need years off. I actually think more programs should favor these applicants, even if it feels unfair. Overwhelmingly MD/PhDs fall off the physician-scientist pathway because they are sick of being broke and making sacrifices for increasingly slim odds of putting their dual degree to good use. The statistics speak for themselves on K-grant pay lines and K-to-R conversion rates.

 

[Cemetra]

Can I reflect on this as someone on a similar timeline as you, albeit a very different path? I'm an MD/PhD student. Currently 29, unmarried, graduating at 33 and considering mostly subspecialty routes (i.e., long training pathway).

You need to gauge your ambitions and lay out the sacrifices you are willing to make for this profession right now. You will have more responsibility, more money, and more impact as a physician. You might also be more miserable, and you may never reach the heights of medicine you want to reach. The biggest thing here is these could not be more different paths in terms of how your life will go, even if they ultimately both involve training to provide patient care.

Think about your timeline and your limitations.

You start medical school at 30-31 years old and finish at 34-35. However, trying to keep that timeline means no research years, no extra resume building. Then you will likely be limited in specialty by time. Anything over 5-6 years will start to look unattractive. Surgery at academic centers will become basically undoable (5 years residency + 2 years research requirement + 1-3 years fellowship). Forget neurosurgery. Academic medicine will be a challenge, as you often take very low-paid positions at the start and build up for years. You'll also have less time to build a resume to move up in the ranks.

On the other hand, you say you are satisfied with rural medicine. Imagine graduating at 34, specializing in FM, and getting a primarily outpatient position in the rural midwest for $300K+ at 37. If rural medicine appeals to you, this could be a good life and would likely provide far more for you in terms of financial well-being and overall impact than being a PA ever could.

However, don't discount being a PA. The training pathway is far, far shorter, and you can still make a handsome income, even in metro areas. If you love the OR, you can be a first assist and, depending on specialty, make close to $200K. I'm unsure of how difficult those jobs are to obtain, though. You'll almost definitely have more time for your wife/kids. You'll be financially secure sooner. You and I both know how frustrating it is to have limited income as you approach 30. I imagine it's even worse as you approach 40. Giving up long term financial gains for more years without money as an omnipresent concern in your life could be very worthwhile.

I think one of the more competitive specialties I would be interested in would be radiology, but that's based specifically off my personality. I think I'd keep an open mind until actually doing rotations into specialties, but I don't have any interest of being a surgeon for now. I have a buddy who's a PA in ortho and said he makes $90k plus bonuses, but didn't specify the amount. I would imagine that any PA in my region is going to top out right around $130k, but again, this is simply a guess. The money isn't the biggest motivating factor for me. I left a good paying career and now work as an EMT make 25% of what I did hourly, plus about half the hours. But I don't go hungry, so I'm content. The good thing is that my (future) wife is a nurse in the ER and makes pretty decent money, even working three shifts a week. I think the biggest decision comes down to the difficulty of medical school and residency. If I were able to treat medical school like a 9-5, 6-7 days a week, and residency as Hell but for only 3 years in a less-specialized field, that would be okay with me. It's the horror stories of studying 14-hours per day for years on end that would take away from my significant other and our future children that would make me feel bad. On the other hand, if I were to work full-time as a PA in something like FM and realize I'm getting 1/3 the pay, I could see myself being a bit upset with that decision. Again, money is definitely not the driving factor in this decision, but I would prefer the extra pay in that specific scenario, obviously. The biggest thing is that if medical school and residency take away from my hobbies and interests for a set period of time, that's to be expected. If I miss some holidays and family type events (family as in aunts and uncles) for a set period of time, this is also fine. But if I were to hardly see my wife and children, I would be regretful. No matter how happy I am in my work, my family would come before my career. The 7-8 year commitment of it to get to the end goal is okay, but I wouldn't want it for a lifetime. I know that being a physician should hopefully offer me the flexibility to express those type of wishes in relationship to my work/life balance once being a practicing provider, but I also read about doctors working insane hours for life. Granted, each person is different. Again, I'm over here talking about practicing as a physician and haven't even taken organic chemistry yet, so I think I should do as the other posters commented and focus on my prerequisites and the MCAT to see if medical school if even attainable to begin with. Also, thank you for you post. It's good to hear from people in similar situations. I hope you're happy with your decision thus far.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

I think one of the more competitive specialties I would be interested in would be radiology, but that's based specifically off my personality. I think I'd keep an open mind until actually doing rotations into specialties, but I don't have any interest of being a surgeon for now. I have a buddy who's a PA in ortho and said he makes $90k plus bonuses, but didn't specify the amount. I would imagine that any PA in my region is going to top out right around $130k, but again, this is simply a guess. The money isn't the biggest motivating factor for me. I left a good paying career and now work as an EMT make 25% of what I did hourly, plus about half the hours. But I don't go hungry, so I'm content. The good thing is that my (future) wife is a nurse in the ER and makes pretty decent money, even working three shifts a week. I think the biggest decision comes down to the difficulty of medical school and residency. If I were able to treat medical school like a 9-5, 6-7 days a week, and residency as Hell but for only 3 years in a less-specialized field, that would be okay with me. It's the horror stories of studying 14-hours per day for years on end that would take away from my significant other and our future children that would make me feel bad. On the other hand, if I were to work full-time as a PA in something like FM and realize I'm getting 1/3 the pay, I could see myself being a bit upset with that decision. Again, money is definitely not the driving factor in this decision, but I would prefer the extra pay in that specific scenario, obviously. The biggest thing is that if medical school and residency take away from my hobbies and interests for a set period of time, that's to be expected. If I miss some holidays and family type events (family as in aunts and uncles) for a set period of time, this is also fine. But if I were to hardly see my wife and children, I would be regretful. No matter how happy I am in my work, my family would come before my career. The 7-8 year commitment of it to get to the end goal is okay, but I wouldn't want it for a lifetime. I know that being a physician should hopefully offer me the flexibility to express those type of wishes in relationship to my work/life balance once being a practicing provider, but I also read about doctors working insane hours for life. Granted, each person is different. Again, I'm over here talking about practicing as a physician and haven't even taken organic chemistry yet, so I think I should do as the other posters commented and focus on my prerequisites and the MCAT to see if medical school if even attainable to begin with. Also, thank you for you post. It's good to hear from people in similar situations. I hope you're happy with your decision thus far.

You sound very well-adjusted, and I doubt there's a wrong path for you here except maybe being a PA in an FM practice, as you alluded to. Having a spouse that works full time and keeps you from going hungry/worrying constantly about money is important. At two separate times in my MD/PhD I have been hit with serious financial problems from surprise expenses and family troubles. One time left me technically homeless (I slept on a friend's couch and then managed to secure temporary housing until everything stabilized). The other time forced me to euthanize a beloved pet. Tying yourself down financially with the expense/commitment of medical school, even with a big payoff at the end, is not something I recommend lightly. A lot of med students/pre-meds overlook the downsides of being poor for a decade. Yes, it's temporary, but if something bad happens to you in the meanwhile, you are still poor.

I do think it's an imperative that you try to become a physician by taking your courses/MCAT. You will feel a lot better about either decision if you know the outcome of trying. For instance, knowing you could have been a physician while working as a PA will likely keep your ego satisfied. Knowing you never had the option will keep you from racking yourself at night, especially if you find yourself in a predicament where the financial benefits of the MD/DO would have made a difference (e.g., your kid wants to go to an expensive college, you get a job in a HCOL area and can't afford a mortgage in a neighborhood with the best public schools, etc...).

I wish you the best of luck. If it's the path you choose, I'm sure you'll make a great physician.

 

[jhmmd]

You sound very well-adjusted, and I doubt there's a wrong path for you here except maybe being a PA in an FM practice, as you alluded to. Having a spouse that works full time and keeps you from going hungry/worrying constantly about money is important. At two separate times in my MD/PhD I have been hit with serious financial problems from surprise expenses and family troubles. One time left me technically homeless (I slept on a friend's couch and then managed to secure temporary housing until everything stabilized). The other time forced me to euthanize a beloved pet. Tying yourself down financially with the expense/commitment of medical school, even with a big payoff at the end, is not something I recommend lightly. A lot of med students/pre-meds overlook the downsides of being poor for a decade. Yes, it's temporary, but if something bad happens to you in the meanwhile, you are still poor.

I do think it's an imperative that you try to become a physician by taking your courses/MCAT. You will feel a lot better about either decision if you know the outcome of trying. For instance, knowing you could have been a physician while working as a PA will likely keep your ego satisfied. Knowing you never had the option will keep you from racking yourself at night, especially if you find yourself in a predicament where the financial benefits of the MD/DO would have made a difference (e.g., your kid wants to go to an expensive college, you get a job in a HCOL area and can't afford a mortgage in a neighborhood with the best public schools, etc...).

I wish you the best of luck. If it's the path you choose, I'm sure you'll make a great physician.

Again, money is not a good reason to try to become a doctor--or a PA.
Are you a PA? It sounds like you are on the MD/Ph.D path--so how do you know what PAs are thinking?

 

[Cemetra]

You sound very well-adjusted, and I doubt there's a wrong path for you here except maybe being a PA in an FM practice, as you alluded to. Having a spouse that works full time and keeps you from going hungry/worrying constantly about money is important. At two separate times in my MD/PhD I have been hit with serious financial problems from surprise expenses and family troubles. One time left me technically homeless (I slept on a friend's couch and then managed to secure temporary housing until everything stabilized). The other time forced me to euthanize a beloved pet. Tying yourself down financially with the expense/commitment of medical school, even with a big payoff at the end, is not something I recommend lightly. A lot of med students/pre-meds overlook the downsides of being poor for a decade. Yes, it's temporary, but if something bad happens to you in the meanwhile, you are still poor.

I do think it's an imperative that you try to become a physician by taking your courses/MCAT. You will feel a lot better about either decision if you know the outcome of trying. For instance, knowing you could have been a physician while working as a PA will likely keep your ego satisfied. Knowing you never had the option will keep you from racking yourself at night, especially if you find yourself in a predicament where the financial benefits of the MD/DO would have made a difference (e.g., your kid wants to go to an expensive college, you get a job in a HCOL area and can't afford a mortgage in a neighborhood with the best public schools, etc...).

I wish you the best of luck. If it's the path you choose, I'm sure you'll make a great physician.

I think you make a really good point and that's what I've decided I'll at least do for now. For example, most PA programs don't require physics, but I will still sign up to take it next semester. This one choice could save me years down the road. Worst case scenario, I choose PA and took some extra classes I didn't need. Best case scenario, I have all my prerequisites for medical done, so I'll be better off if I choose that path. I shall start preparing like I'm planning for medical school now. I suppose my next step is purchasing some used Kaplan books and starting a new Anki deck! Thanks again and best of luck in your endeavors.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I think you make a really good point and that's what I've decided I'll at least do for now. For example, most PA programs don't require physics, but I will still sign up to take it next semester. This one choice could save me years down the road. Worst case scenario, I choose PA and took some extra classes I didn't need. Best case scenario, I have all my prerequisites for medical done, so I'll be better off if I choose that path. I shall start preparing like I'm planning for medical school now. I suppose my next step is purchasing some used Kaplan books and starting a new Anki deck! Thanks again and best of luck in your endeavors.

Kaplan's books are fine.

However, it's important to do lots of problems.

AAMC (the entity that puts out the official MCAT) also releases old MCATs. These are the best practice.

In terms of third party exams, UWorld's online question bank is very good, as are full length exams from Blueprint and Altius.

Khan academy videos (free) are great as is a 300 page outline of Psychology/Sociology videos on Khan academy that can be accessed for free online.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

I'm not sure why some folks are reacting with some apparent hostility to both OP and other commenters - I actually think @ChordaEpiphany is giving good and realistic advice. They only have their own MD/PhD perspective sure, but i think they are making good points worth considering for someone in OP's position.

Again, money is not a good reason to try to become a doctor--or a PA.
Are you a PA? It sounds like you are on the MD/Ph.D path--so how do you know what PAs are thinking?

Money is a terrible reason to choose medicine, but I do think money and stability are legitimate things to consider when choosing between two perfectly legitimate and relatively similar career paths in medicine, especially as an older student considering a family. There are other things that should be more important (do you want to be the chief decision maker or team player with less liability? specialized or flexible? a researcher? the foremost expert in your field? done with training faster?) but if you're truly ambivalent about those kind of things then money/career stability is not a terrible thing to think about.

 

[jhmmd]

Money is a terrible reason to choose medicine, but I do think money and stability are legitimate things to consider when choosing between two perfectly legitimate and relatively similar career paths in medicine, especially as an older student considering a family. There are other things that should be more important (do you want to be the chief decision maker or team player with less liability? specialized or flexible? a researcher? the foremost expert in your field? done with training faster?) but if you're truly ambivalent about those kind of things then money/career stability is not a terrible thing to think about.

Yeah but when most doctors are making at least $200k it's all the same
I do think that medicine is a stable career no matter what kind of doctor you become.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Yeah but when most doctors are making at least $200k it's all the same
I do think that medicine is a stable career no matter what kind of doctor you become.

but there's a pretty big difference in short vs. long term stability of PA vs MD/DO which is the choice OP is considering. Attendings can earn big big bucks, but it takes a long time to get there, and there's a significant lack of stability along the way (especially if you have a family to support). I only took a couple years off before med school, but I'll only start making any money again at 28 (much less than PA salary), I'm going to be at least 32 by the time I earn that attending money (quite likely 34+ since I'll likely do fellowship). If I'd gone the PA route, I could've been earning stable money at 27. This is worth it to me, as I have no kids (and no immediate plans for any) and my career interests were much better aligned with MD. That may or may not be the case for OP, everyone is different.

 

[jhmmd]

but there's a pretty big difference in short vs. long term stability of PA vs MD/DO which is the choice OP is considering. Attendings can earn big big bucks, but it takes a long time to get there, and there's a significant lack of stability along the way (especially if you have a family to support). I only took a couple years off before med school, but I'll only start making any money again at 28 (much less than PA salary), I'm going to be at least 32 by the time I earn that attending money (quite likely 34+ since I'll likely do fellowship). If I'd gone the PA route, I could've been earning stable money at 27. This is worth it to me, as I have no kids (and no immediate plans for any) and my career interests were much better aligned with MD. That may or may not be the case for OP, everyone is different.

Agreed.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

Again, money is not a good reason to try to become a doctor--or a PA.
Are you a PA? It sounds like you are on the MD/Ph.D path--so how do you know what PAs are thinking?

I don't know how you somehow read around all of the context for the financial discussion, but I never advocated for becoming a physician for the money. I advocated for taking care of yourself and your family and considering the finances, and I highlighted the risks of taking the path of greatest delayed gratification.

Have you started a family yet? Have you had to care for people other than yourself? Have you lived for 10+ years feeling unsure if your family could survive an unexpected bill? It sounds like you're a pre-med, so how do you know what MDs or PAs or normal, financially independent, functional adults with families to support are thinking?

Money matters. If OP were opining about neurology vs. neurosurgery money, I'd tell them to get a life and focus on their studies. That's not the case. OP is deciding between two very different paths with very different compensation structures/timelines. Because OP actually has a life outside of their career, the money they make and when they make it will dictate what that life looks like.

Money is a terrible reason to choose medicine, but I do think money and stability are legitimate things to consider when choosing between two perfectly legitimate and relatively similar career paths in medicine, especially as an older student considering a family.

Exactly. Also, money is a terrible reason to choose medicine because you simply won't make enough of it to drown your dissatisfaction in luxury. There are simply better options.

Want to be miserably rich? Big law, high finance, and top tech jobs offer a lot more money, especially early on when your investments have 40+ years to grow before retirement. By retirement age, money invested in your 20s is literally 4x more valuable than money invested in your 40s. When you consider the opportunity cost of med school + residency + loans, you can essentially multiply the attending salary by ~0.6, putting nearly all physicians squarely into the upper-middle class. Working yourself to death in a profession you hate for an upper-middle class income is beyond idiotic. You're putting yourself through hell to upgrade from Toyota to Lexus. If you're going to hate yourself, at least do it in a Porsche.

 

[jhmmd]

I don't know how you somehow read around all of the context for the financial discussion, but I never advocated for becoming a physician for the money. I advocated for taking care of yourself and your family and considering the finances, and I highlighted the risks of taking the path of greatest delayed gratification.

Have you started a family yet? Have you had to care for people other than yourself? Have you lived for 10+ years feeling unsure if your family could survive an unexpected bill? It sounds like you're a pre-med, so how do you know what MDs or PAs or normal, financially independent, functional adults with families to support are thinking?

Money matters. If OP were opining about neurology vs. neurosurgery money, I'd tell them to get a life and focus on their studies. That's not the case. OP is deciding between two very different paths with very different compensation structures/timelines. Because OP actually has a life outside of their career, the money they make and when they make it will dictate what that life looks like.

Exactly. Also, money is a terrible reason to choose medicine because you simply won't make enough of it to drown your dissatisfaction in luxury. There are simply better options.

Want to be miserably rich? Big law, high finance, and top tech jobs offer a lot more money, especially early on when your investments have 40+ years to grow before retirement. By retirement age, money invested in your 20s is literally 4x more valuable than money invested in your 40s. When you consider the opportunity cost of med school + residency + loans, you can essentially multiply the attending salary by ~0.6, putting nearly all physicians squarely into the upper-middle class. Working yourself to death in a profession you hate for an upper-middle class income is beyond idiotic. You're putting yourself through hell to upgrade from Toyota to Lexus. If you're going to hate yourself, at least do it in a Porsche.

It sounds like you are really bitter about your choices, man. In case you're wondering, yes I have started a family. Yes I do know what it is like to take care of myself and others, and yes I am normal and have a life. Enough with the ad hominems.

Not sure what you mean by "big law" and "high finance." Have a great night.

 

[orthoPA81]

I’ll chime in as a current DO student and former PA.

If you want to be an expert and leader of a medical team then go to med school. You will never be considered a medical expert as a PA. That will always be a physician and there is no comparison in the rigor of training.

Regarding salary for PAs. It is very specialty and region specific. I know senior PAs (working 20+ years in Alaska) making 200k but they are maxed out. I also have friends working over 7-8 years and still in the 100-120k range. With saturation of PA/NPs I see the pay coming down eventually.

I went to PA school when I was 29 thinking I was too old to go to med school. Now I’m 39 as a first year med student. Follow your gut and you’ll know the answer.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Depends if you don't mind being supervised. My daughter in law is a PA. I begged her several times to be one of my med students. She is super smart,, has a great job and is very happy where she is. As the poster above pointed out, you can always go to med school if you want something more.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

It sounds like you are really bitter about your choices, man. In case you're wondering, yes I have started a family. Yes I do know what it is like to take care of myself and others, and yes I am normal and have a life. Enough with the ad hominems.

This doesn't really even deserve a response, but for anyone reading into this person's selective quotations of my posts, poor reading comprehension, or overly cocky dismissal of OP's request for genuine advice, please know that I am not bitter in any way. I am extremely content with the MD/PhD route. It is an unparalleled dive into science and medicine, and in the current era you cannot replicate the experience with any other path. My point was that if you decide to chase money at the expense of your own career satisfaction, medicine is a particularly poor choice of field.

A final bit of unsolicited advice: If you bring this contrarian and holier-than-thou attitude to the wards, you will get absolutely crushed on your evals.

 

[never-too-late]

I went back to school late 30’s with 3 kids: why is age even a factor? You should be able to participate in loan forgiveness programs if you want to do rural medicine. This shouldn’t be a difficult decision: MD/DO applications for 2 cycles and then add in PA if you don’t get in or if your MCAT is not where it needs to be.

 

[deleted1017120]

Amazing advice that I received from an undergraduate mentor:

First thing you have to answer:

Could you be happy and satisfied as anything less than a physician?

If so, don't try to go to medical school (or any PhD-level education for that matter). The amount of time, money, sweat, and tears that you put into the process is so much that you absolutely need to have a single-minded passion to pursue that profession. It can't just be that you want to be a physician, it has to be that you wouldn't be happy with anything else.

After that, every other question is one of logistics.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Depends if you don't mind being supervised. My daughter in law is a PA. I begged her several times to be one of my med students. She is super smart,, has a great job and is very happy where she is. As the poster above pointed out, you can always go to med school if you want something more.

I would bet a significant amount that this will no longer be true in the majority of states by 2030.

PAs Celebrate a Year of Unprecedented Wins at the State Level

State legislative wins in 2019 set in motion a positive shift for the PA profession, from eliminating the requirement for PAs to have an agreement with a physician to practice, to shifting from a supervisory model to a collaborative one.

www.aapa.org

 

[stgeorge]

apologies in advance for the rant

Quick info:
- 28-year-old male majoring with a BA in Philosophy with a minor in nutrition
- 3 associate degrees (if that matters) in sociology, psychology, and biology
- GPA of ~ 3.8, sGPA of ~ 3.7
- NO MCAT YET
- PURSUING RURAL MEDICINE
- Very supportive girlfriend and future wife that's an ER nurse
- Over 2,000 hours as an EMT for 911 and private services
- Cool stories with patient care. Delivered a baby in an ambulance once!
- Own a small non-profit that donates educational material throughout the US
- Little research experience (1 project) without a publication
- Good LOR's from 2 professor's so far that I can count on
- Decent EC's: STEM club, few scholarships, made the school paper a few times, volunteer almost weekly
- ~ 300 total volunteer hours between multiple organizations (including my non-profit)

I will be graduating college at 30, so I'm at a loss on choosing between PA or MD/DO.

PA pros: Good career that I think I can fulfill my desires in medicine with. Being in charge is neither a pro or con to me. I would finish at about 32, meaning I could still devote a good bit of time to starting a family, building a home, and investing, amongst other things. I have a lot of hobbies outside medicine, so PA would help me continually pursue them.

PA cons: Oversaturation. Tons of NP's graduating each year. More and more PA's graduating. I think this will impact pay and job outlook, although it may take 6-8 years to do so. I think the whole "switching specialties" comment is a bit overblown. I'm not going to do ortho for 10 years and then want to settle down and retire away into derm, for example. I may be wrong about this, though. Rural medicine means I will more than likely have a lot of responsibility. I have a friend who's a PA who runs an entire ER by himself on nights and gets paid 1/3 of what the doctor does. I think I might turn 45 one day and regret that I didn't just suck it up and go to medical school. I like being an expert on things and my opinion to be taken seriously, which may not always be the case as a PA, although it depends on the culture of the work.

MD/DO pros: after residency, there's a lot of flexibility from my understanding. If you make it clear you want to work X schedule, simply don't accept a job that doesn't abide by that, for example. Better pay. Better recognition. No "what-if" questions about had I gone to medical school. Better care for patients at least in terms of my understanding and ability to treat them. We NEED more doctors, especially where I'm from in rural Georgia. I love teaching and would be able to do so at a higher level as a doctor. I know medicine contains a lot of personalities, but I can assure that I would be one to always teach when possible, be the best patient advocate (I seriously cannot stand when people give up on patients too early, especially in life or death circumstances), and hopefully a sort of positive light to the culture I'm a part of. Being an expert in a field would be awesome. I think medical school and residency would be a grind, but I've worked 80-hour-weeks in construction making $10/hour while studying prerequisite courses. I think a lot of traditional students haven't experienced this and may hate the transition. I'm more used to it given my background. I'm fine with more of a logistics type of roll and don't need a ton of patient contact, per se, although I do enjoy it.

MD/DO cons: I would be in my 30's while in medical school and planning to have children after Step 1. I'm hoping I would be able to treat medical school like 8-10 hours of studying per day, 6-7 days a week, meaning I would still be able to spend good time with my wife and children, but this very well may not be the case. I may match into a less-competitive specialty and not make as much. Between "I regret going the MD route" and "I regret going the PA route", I would think I'd regret the MD route more given the comparison in sacrifices one has to make. Healthcare as a whole could change drastically. More responsibility, meaning I'm responsible for those under me, even incompetent providers. More stress. Higher chances of getting sued.

I've actually been between the two choices for years, but as I'm getting closer, I've found that I'm just as lost as I was originally. I'm an extremely stoic person. Things don't bother me very often. I think a lot of people complain about trivial things. I'm typing this now on a $1,200 computer. I have a girlfriend that I know I'll marry. I'm happy and healthy, while she is too and so is my family. I have a nice car. I have food. I have shelter. I have a warm shower. I have clean water. I spend about 50-hours-a week between classes and work right now and, although it can be stressful (especially approaching finals), I'm content in life. My friends are getting married and having children. I'm happy for them, but don't feel the pressure of missing out. The other half of my friends are drinking and partying. I don't feel like I'm missing out there either. The "grind" itself really isn't that bad for me, personally. This isn't to say it comes easy. I'm actually a slow learner, but I just don't mind studying for long hours. I have no idea, guys/gals. I doubt anyone even read this far, but I'm just seeking some opinions from my internet friends.

apologies in advance for the rant

Quick info:
- 28-year-old male majoring with a BA in Philosophy with a minor in nutrition
- 3 associate degrees (if that matters) in sociology, psychology, and biology
- GPA of ~ 3.8, sGPA of ~ 3.7
- NO MCAT YET
- PURSUING RURAL MEDICINE
- Very supportive girlfriend and future wife that's an ER nurse
- Over 2,000 hours as an EMT for 911 and private services
- Cool stories with patient care. Delivered a baby in an ambulance once!
- Own a small non-profit that donates educational material throughout the US
- Little research experience (1 project) without a publication
- Good LOR's from 2 professor's so far that I can count on
- Decent EC's: STEM club, few scholarships, made the school paper a few times, volunteer almost weekly
- ~ 300 total volunteer hours between multiple organizations (including my non-profit)

I will be graduating college at 30, so I'm at a loss on choosing between PA or MD/DO.

PA pros: Good career that I think I can fulfill my desires in medicine with. Being in charge is neither a pro or con to me. I would finish at about 32, meaning I could still devote a good bit of time to starting a family, building a home, and investing, amongst other things. I have a lot of hobbies outside medicine, so PA would help me continually pursue them.

PA cons: Oversaturation. Tons of NP's graduating each year. More and more PA's graduating. I think this will impact pay and job outlook, although it may take 6-8 years to do so. I think the whole "switching specialties" comment is a bit overblown. I'm not going to do ortho for 10 years and then want to settle down and retire away into derm, for example. I may be wrong about this, though. Rural medicine means I will more than likely have a lot of responsibility. I have a friend who's a PA who runs an entire ER by himself on nights and gets paid 1/3 of what the doctor does. I think I might turn 45 one day and regret that I didn't just suck it up and go to medical school. I like being an expert on things and my opinion to be taken seriously, which may not always be the case as a PA, although it depends on the culture of the work.

MD/DO pros: after residency, there's a lot of flexibility from my understanding. If you make it clear you want to work X schedule, simply don't accept a job that doesn't abide by that, for example. Better pay. Better recognition. No "what-if" questions about had I gone to medical school. Better care for patients at least in terms of my understanding and ability to treat them. We NEED more doctors, especially where I'm from in rural Georgia. I love teaching and would be able to do so at a higher level as a doctor. I know medicine contains a lot of personalities, but I can assure that I would be one to always teach when possible, be the best patient advocate (I seriously cannot stand when people give up on patients too early, especially in life or death circumstances), and hopefully a sort of positive light to the culture I'm a part of. Being an expert in a field would be awesome. I think medical school and residency would be a grind, but I've worked 80-hour-weeks in construction making $10/hour while studying prerequisite courses. I think a lot of traditional students haven't experienced this and may hate the transition. I'm more used to it given my background. I'm fine with more of a logistics type of roll and don't need a ton of patient contact, per se, although I do enjoy it.

MD/DO cons: I would be in my 30's while in medical school and planning to have children after Step 1. I'm hoping I would be able to treat medical school like 8-10 hours of studying per day, 6-7 days a week, meaning I would still be able to spend good time with my wife and children, but this very well may not be the case. I may match into a less-competitive specialty and not make as much. Between "I regret going the MD route" and "I regret going the PA route", I would think I'd regret the MD route more given the comparison in sacrifices one has to make. Healthcare as a whole could change drastically. More responsibility, meaning I'm responsible for those under me, even incompetent providers. More stress. Higher chances of getting sued.

I've actually been between the two choices for years, but as I'm getting closer, I've found that I'm just as lost as I was originally. I'm an extremely stoic person. Things don't bother me very often. I think a lot of people complain about trivial things. I'm typing this now on a $1,200 computer. I have a girlfriend that I know I'll marry. I'm happy and healthy, while she is too and so is my family. I have a nice car. I have food. I have shelter. I have a warm shower. I have clean water. I spend about 50-hours-a week between classes and work right now and, although it can be stressful (especially approaching finals), I'm content in life. My friends are getting married and having children. I'm happy for them, but don't feel the pressure of missing out. The other half of my friends are drinking and partying. I don't feel like I'm missing out there either. The "grind" itself really isn't that bad for me, personally. This isn't to say it comes easy. I'm actually a slow learner, but I just don't mind studying for long hours. I have no idea, guys/gals. I doubt anyone even read this far, but I'm just seeking some opinions from my internet friends.

Study to get the best scores on MCAT.
Every Saturday, take a full test as you were taking a real test, starting early in am like the real test. Allot same break time, same duration of time on each section. Finish at the same time as the real test. Sundays, review as many missed questions as possible. Monday through Friday, put in your hours studying MCAT. Pick a course like Berkeley Review or Kaplan or anything and completely devote yourself.

Once your practice scores reach your goal, sign up for MCAT. Then apply to both MD and DO schools.

I majored in philosophy and genetics. I got into Med schools because of MCAT scores I think not because of my majors.

Good luck.

 

[Bored_Conscious]

This doesn't really even deserve a response, but for anyone reading into this person's selective quotations of my posts, poor reading comprehension, or overly cocky dismissal of OP's request for genuine advice, please know that I am not bitter in any way. I am extremely content with the MD/PhD route. It is an unparalleled dive into science and medicine, and in the current era you cannot replicate the experience with any other path. My point was that if you decide to chase money at the expense of your own career satisfaction, medicine is a particularly poor choice of field.

A final bit of unsolicited advice: If you bring this contrarian and holier-than-thou attitude to the wards, you will get absolutely crushed on your evals.

Honestly, just ignore the other commentor. You and OP were having a really good discussion regarding the reality of medicine and the difficult choices you have to make when choosing a career, especially when you are older. It's honestly a little refreshing to see people speak about finances and the pros and cons of pursuing medicine when, for many, finances are a legitimate concern.

 

[collegestud2013]

I think one of the more competitive specialties I would be interested in would be radiology, but that's based specifically off my personality. I think I'd keep an open mind until actually doing rotations into specialties, but I don't have any interest of being a surgeon for now. I have a buddy who's a PA in ortho and said he makes $90k plus bonuses, but didn't specify the amount. I would imagine that any PA in my region is going to top out right around $130k, but again, this is simply a guess. The money isn't the biggest motivating factor for me. I left a good paying career and now work as an EMT make 25% of what I did hourly, plus about half the hours. But I don't go hungry, so I'm content. The good thing is that my (future) wife is a nurse in the ER and makes pretty decent money, even working three shifts a week. I think the biggest decision comes down to the difficulty of medical school and residency. If I were able to treat medical school like a 9-5, 6-7 days a week, and residency as Hell but for only 3 years in a less-specialized field, that would be okay with me. It's the horror stories of studying 14-hours per day for years on end that would take away from my significant other and our future children that would make me feel bad. On the other hand, if I were to work full-time as a PA in something like FM and realize I'm getting 1/3 the pay, I could see myself being a bit upset with that decision. Again, money is definitely not the driving factor in this decision, but I would prefer the extra pay in that specific scenario, obviously. The biggest thing is that if medical school and residency take away from my hobbies and interests for a set period of time, that's to be expected. If I miss some holidays and family type events (family as in aunts and uncles) for a set period of time, this is also fine. But if I were to hardly see my wife and children, I would be regretful. No matter how happy I am in my work, my family would come before my career. The 7-8 year commitment of it to get to the end goal is okay, but I wouldn't want it for a lifetime. I know that being a physician should hopefully offer me the flexibility to express those type of wishes in relationship to my work/life balance once being a practicing provider, but I also read about doctors working insane hours for life. Granted, each person is different. Again, I'm over here talking about practicing as a physician and haven't even taken organic chemistry yet, so I think I should do as the other posters commented and focus on my prerequisites and the MCAT to see if medical school if even attainable to begin with. Also, thank you for you post. It's good to hear from people in similar situations. I hope you're happy with your decision thus far.

For midlevels, Pay salary differences across specialties is very minimal on an hourly basis. Probably comes out to no more than $10-20k per year in most cases, so usually not too much incentive to change specialties because of massive pay difference, though as a PA it's pretty easy to do so. Those who want to work more can probably make more. If you want the money sooner since you're going to be 30, I would go with PA, but remember that being an NP/PA is essentially being a permanent resident for your career.; all your work will officially be under the supervision of an attending (who has to sign off on all your work), even when you're experienced enough to know as much or more than a junior attending. And getting paid 1/3 to 1/2 the hourly rate of your attending even when you're more experienced seems to be the main complaints among older PAs.

Med school + residency is a longer and less certain route but a USMD acceptance is definitely reasonable with your GPA, as long as you do well on the MCAT. You would need to be okay with the delayed gratification of at least 7 years (instead of 2 years for PA) several years into practice you should be able to financially surpass the head start that PAs have.

 

[stickgirl390]

I'm from a rural county in South Georgia and would like to continue my career in the surrounding areas, all of which are underserved. I work as an EMT in a rural, underserved area as well and volunteer locally. I'm not sure if this would be considered good enough as a proof of an interest in rural medicine, though. I'd believe so, but I'm also quite ignorant on it. Also, thank you so much for the link!

The Medical College of Georgia has a 3+3 program if you agree to do primary care in rural GA for a handful of years after residency. You finish med school in 3 years and residency in another 3. Worth looking into given your career goals and state of residence.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Keep the thread on topic. Further arguing will result in moderation.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

OP, if you want my perspective, let me know and I’ll write it out when I’m not about to take a shelf. I’m finishing my core rotations for M3, and I’m 37 and married with 2 kids.