PhD/PsyD Looking for Info on These Psy.D. Programs

[Phanicus]

Hi all,
I'm looking for some additional information on the following Psy.D. programs. I have a lot of the basic information on these schools like APA internship placement rate, licensure rate, tuition, etc. but I'm looking for more personal experience input. How did you or someone you know like the program? How was the training provided? How was your experience with faculty? Any surprises, good or bad?

Indiana State University
Indiana University of Pennsylvania
Pepperdine
Roosevelt
Rutgers
Spalding
University of Denver
University of Hartford
University of Indianapolis
Wright State
Xavier

Any info you could provide on potential funding opportunities would also be greatly appreciated, as this information has been difficult to come by at times.

Thank you all in advance.

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[BuckeyeLove]

A friend and I did the math on how much it would cost to attend Pepperdine, including cost of living. Don't remember the exact figure but I do recall that it was astronomical. If not paying out of pocket, personally I'd steer clear.

 

[Phanicus]

I think for credits alone, $114,000k is the figure. I feel like there are solid funding options for that program, though. I wouldn't go unless funding was included.


edit: I was way off on my figure and funding. Looks like the first year tuition is around $55,000 itself and seems like funding is poor. Ouch

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

I think for credits alone, $114,000k is the figure. I feel like there are solid funding options for that program, though. I wouldn't go unless funding was included.

Have you considered Ph.D. programs? I hate to but everyone on here was right. Even if you just want to be clinically focused.

 

[Phanicus]

Yeah I've considered it briefly but I feel like the heavy research focus isn't right for me. I'm also scared that a PhD program would be much more competitive. In what other ways is a PhD better?

 

[WisNeuro]

This myth persists. There are a TON of balanced clinical programs. I did about 25% research and 75% clinical work in grad school. What do you consider "heavy?"

 

[erg923]

Yeah I've considered it briefly but I feel like the heavy research focus isn't right for me. I'm also scared that a PhD program would be much more competitive. In what other ways is a PhD better?

Heavy is a subjective term. Ph.D programs will require ongoing participation in research projects and at least some legitimate interest in the scholarly side of this science/profession. How "heavy" that is, is largely up to the student.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Heavy is a subjective term. Ph.D programs will require ongoing participation in research projects and at least some legitimate interest in the scholarly side of this science/profession. How "heavy" that is, is largely up to the student.

Believe me, if you don't get the experience you will want it (In regards to the op and research).

 

[Phanicus]

I was under the impression that minimum research would be way more than 25%. That's actually not bad. I would like to be an active researcher as a professional, I just don't want this to be a huge focus of my career.

What about competitiveness? I'll be 28 next year with a BS and MA under my belt. I don't think I'm ready to try to get an RA position for a year or two and try for PhDs. I know I'm working under a few assumptions here but it is my understanding that people much more qualified than I am struggle to get into PhDs. I'd like to start applying this year and I fear I wouldn't be as competitive for PhD programs as I would for PsyDs.

 

[WisNeuro]

Many people are under that impression, when the reality is much more what erg said. I was heavy on the clinical side in my program. Some of my classmates were more like 80% research 20% clinical, but they wanted academic careers. The truth is that many of the programs allow students to tailor training to suit their career. You need to get a foundation in several areas (research, teaching, clinical work), but after that, you can do what you need to do to be as competitive as possible for what you want to do.

As for competitiveness, your age is not a deterrent. Your chances are much more about your background and fit. If you have zero research experience, then yes, it will be a struggle. As for me, I'd rather spend a year as a research assistant and then get into a funded program than walk away from grad school with 150k+ in debt and possibly diminished career prospects.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Many people are under that impression, when the reality is much more what erg said. I was heavy on the clinical side in my program. Some of my classmates were more like 80% research 20% clinical, but they wanted academic careers. The truth is that many of the programs allow students to tailor training to suit their career. You need to get a foundation in several areas (research, teaching, clinical work), but after that, you can do what you need to do to be as competitive as possible for what you want to do.

As for competitiveness, your age is not a deterrent. Your chances are much more about your background and fit. If you have zero research experience, then yes, it will be a struggle. As for me, I'd rather spend a year as a research assistant and then get into a funded program than walk away from grad school with 150k+ in debt and possibly diminished career prospects.

This. Jesus H. Christ this. I know it sounds bad initially, but you can get into a Ph.D. program and get through it like everyone else, instead of an expensive Psy.D. program.

 

[cara susanna]

I've met students from some of those PsyD programs and they were actually just as involved in research as a lot of the people in my PhD program. Some were actually involved in more (I attend a pretty balanced program).

 

[shrink4hire4u]

Have you considered Ph.D. programs? I hate to but everyone on here was right. Even if you just want to be clinically focused.

After reading about your experience at your PsyD, you should be well aware that the PsyD programs OP listed are NOTHING like the program you attended. You shouldn't use such a large brush based on your experience.

OP, Most of the time PsyD's provide funding through scholarships and paid RA/TA positions instead of the typical stipend. Ask specifically for that information when you are looking for funding. Like it was posted above, there are many highly trained PsyD's and many came from the programs you listed. Many did just as much or more research as I did in my program and received quite a bit more training in psychotherapy, and I went to a program that emphasizes clinical work (but remember it's always possible to supplement your education outside of your program to fill in areas you want to). PhD's aren't unique in that they can tailor programs to clinically-focused or research-focused, quality PsyD programs do too. I can't give you direct experience about those schools, but have met many highly trained professionals from many of them and they are quite happy with their education, as they should be.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Pepperdine is probably too expensive, but offers excellent training opportunities. There is some funding available and chance for a few paid practicums and assistant jobs. They also have good research opportunities. Downside is that less motivated students can get through with weaker practicums and a lit review instead of a dissertation and leave with a mountain of debt and less to show for it. I would say that the typical student does alright though. Not like some of the schools where it is the exception to succeed rather than the rule.
As mentioned above, try for the research experience and shoot for the full-funding. The more expensive route would be more of a plan b. Also when calculating the cost, factor in that Pepperdine is about two years less time than many PhDs.

 

[shrink4hire4u]

a lit review instead of a dissertation

I'm not seeing that in the brochure. Do you have direct experience or reliable knowledge on that? I just find it odd from everything else I've heard about the program. I've had a lot of interaction with Bob DeMayo (past president of the CPA) and I believe he's the director that program. It strikes me as odd.

Edit: I was wrong, he's assist. dean, not director.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Direct knowledge unless they dropped that requirement. It is not the option most students take. i think that some analysis of the data from the literature has to be done so it still qualifies as a dissertation. It just seems a little too close to what some other schools try to pass off as original work so might be better to avoid that option.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Bob used to be training director and is now assistant. He knows a lot about private practice and the business side of things and is a solid psychologist from what I gather.

 

[Cheetah89]

This myth persists. There are a TON of balanced clinical programs. I did about 25% research and 75% clinical work in grad school. What do you consider "heavy?"

The "myth" persists because everyone who is planning to apply to PhD programs in clinical psych is told that their top priority should be to gain post-bacc research experience, present at conferences and publish as much as they can to even be considered for interviews. Based on this advice, it's not unreasonable that applicants assume research will the major component of their graduate school experience if they pursue this degree.

 

[WisNeuro]

Why is myth in quotes, is it ironic? That's slightly hyperbolic, we advise research experience, publishing is not mandatory as the majority of applicants will not have a published manuscript before entry to graduate school. A poster, maybe, but manuscripts are relatively rare unless you are applying to a research powerhouse.

 

[Cheetah89]

Even so, that's a lot of research involvement for someone without an advanced degree! Perhaps my response was a little over the top, but I was an applicant this year (second time applying) and many other applicants had done all of those things.

 

[WisNeuro]

From my experience at R1 programs, most applicants had 1-2 years as an RA, from undergrad and maybe a post year undergrad, and maybe a poster or two. A handful over the years had a pub. That was 4+ years ago, so maybe it's gone through a sea change, but I can't imagine it's drastically different.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Research pays the bills. The alternative is to pay for the education yourself.

 

[WisNeuro]

Many places just require you TA for the tuition remission and stipend, not being on a research grant.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Many places just require you TA for the tuition remission and stipend, not being on a research grant.

So not always your own funding, but isn't the professor who brings you in usually relying on funding for your spot?

 

[Ollie123]

Not necessarily. Even at my (clinical science) graduate program, it was a pretty even split between teaching and research slots. It was actually far more common for folks to be TAs their first year - I think I was the only one in my class funded off grants. Its actually slid more in the direction of teaching the last few years as grant funding has dried up. In later years, many students are actually funded through clinical positions as well. For instance we had "Assistant directors" in our department clinic and paid clinical positions at various places within the university and some outside the university.

 

[WisNeuro]

So not always your own funding, but isn't the professor who brings you in usually relying on funding for your spot?

Not at the programs I was a part of, and not at my colleagues' programs. The university funds x number of positions for students for TA spots. If a professor has a large grant, they can open up additional slots for students if they can guarantee funding sometimes.

 

[A Blue Duck]

Hi all,
I'm looking for some additional information on the following Psy.D. programs. I have a lot of the basic information on these schools like APA internship placement rate, licensure rate, tuition, etc. but I'm looking for more personal experience input. How did you or someone you know like the program? How was the training provided? How was your experience with faculty? Any surprises, good or bad?

Indiana State University
Indiana University of Pennsylvania
Pepperdine
Roosevelt
Rutgers
Spalding
University of Denver
University of Hartford
University of Indianapolis
Wright State
Xavier

Any info you could provide on potential funding opportunities would also be greatly appreciated, as this information has been difficult to come by at times.

Thank you all in advance.

We may want to do something about the constant devolving of threads into PhD vs. PsyD when the initial post is entirely unrelated...

EDIT: I did just notice that the OP ended up requesting information on why PhD is "better." Apologies- although there is still a lack of actual information regarding the initial posting, other than Pepperdine being OK yet outrageously priced.

I interviewed at the Rutgers PsyD program 3 years ago. I was quite impressed with both the faculty I interviewed with and the interview process, including program information such as practicum and research opportunities. I believe all accepted students have a full-tuition waiver plus some kind of partial stipend during select years (someone correct me if this is not the case), which is quite rare for a PsyD program (You may want to check out Baylor PsyD as well- I noticed they were not on your list of otherwise "high-tier" PsyDs).

I recall my one negative about the experience was that I was not given a 1-on-1 interview with my faculty member of interest; this never occurred at any of my later PhD interviews, where admission decisions are more concentrated at the PI rather than program level. I also remember being specifically told they were looking for individuals ready to begin one-on-one clinical work immediately in the first year; this was reflected in the interview process which included a therapist-client role playing exercise and a community mental health consultation scenario. I was wait-listed and ultimately not extended an offer. Two years later I reapplied exclusively to clinical PhD programs and was accepted; I honestly can't say whether or not I would have accepted a Rutgers offer at the time, but in the end I'm quite glad I was not accepted and, instead, "forced" into reapplying after gaining more experience.

 

[LAPsyGuy]

Pepperdine is probably too expensive, but offers excellent training opportunities. There is some funding available and chance for a few paid practicums and assistant jobs. They also have good research opportunities. Downside is that less motivated students can get through with weaker practicums and a lit review instead of a dissertation and leave with a mountain of debt and less to show for it. I would say that the typical student does alright though. Not like some of the schools where it is the exception to succeed rather than the rule.
As mentioned above, try for the research experience and shoot for the full-funding. The more expensive route would be more of a plan b. Also when calculating the cost, factor in that Pepperdine is about two years less time than many PhDs.

Pepperdine requires a dissertation, even if it's a single case study or a theoretical paper. Review articles are not ok. There are several labs with faculty like Ed Shafranske, Carol Falender, Thema Bryant-Davis, Lou Cozolino, and others, though it is a clinical and professional focused program. APPIC match was somewhere above 85% this year, and people were placed at sites like Butner, CHLA, several VAs, prisons and hospitals. The APA match numbers were good too, from what I hear, but I haven't been privy to the actual number yet. Practicum placements are very good including Harbor-UCLA, UCLA, LAC+USC, Cedars, CHLA, CHOC, and all the LA area VA sites, and many more.

It's a good program, but it does cost a lot. It should not be confused with the for-profit schools. The cost should not be a trigger for the disgusting elitism many on the site seem to suffer from, but it should be of personal concern as you plan your school and career. What should matter to others is the quality of your training, and the quality of your work. If you don't want to be tenure track faculty at an academic institution you won't notice much difference. Adjunct clinical and training staff positions at med school, universities and hospitals are common for PsyDs.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[erg923]

The cost should not be a trigger for the disgusting elitism many on the site seem to suffer from

Backhanded compliment? I'll take it.

If you don't want to be tenure track faculty at an academic institution you won't notice much difference.

And, as a graduate student who hasn't matriculated or sat on hiring comittees, you are qualified to make this statement, right?

 

[WisNeuro]

Since when was it elitist to not be a fan of crippling debt? I don't recall anyone bashing the quality of Pepperdine, merely it's outrageous cost.

 

[LAPsyGuy]

And, as a graduate student who hasn't matriculated or sat on hiring comittees, you are qualified to make this statement, right?

Please read it again. Your response doesn't seem to address the quote.


As usual, y'all rose to the occasion.

 

[erg923]

As usual, y'all rose to the occasion.

Giggity

 

[LAPsyGuy]

Giggity

You're actually kinda of sad to watch. Like really, depressingly sad. Anyway, congratulations.

I don't intend it as an insult. It's just my affective reaction to your behavior.

 

[erg923]

You're actually kinda of sad to watch. Like really, depressingly sad. Anyway, congratulations.

Man, I am have been personally railed on here the past few days, haven't I? But, I choose to "turn the other cheek"... "take the high road"...."do the right thang."

Kinda like Gandhi...

 

[LAPsyGuy]

Man, I am have been personally railed on here the past few days, haven't I? But, I choose to "turn the other cheek"... "take the high road"...."do the right thang."

Kinda like Gandhi...

It's a mystery. How would anybody misconstrue what is obviously care and concern. Whatever you do, try not to learn from it.

 

[LAPsyGuy]

Still laughing at you comparing yourself to Jesus and Gandhi. Woo. My sides hurt.

Though the comparison does say a lot about where you're coming from. And, I only think you were partially kidding. Oh my sides.

 

[tchibur]

OP, I think you have to do your research about the programs and find out if they will meet your needs (i.e., clinical training, research emphasis, etc). In the end, you will make the right decision, you will move forward with your life, and you will forget everything ever mentioned about the Ph.D vs. Psy.D debate. Let me provide you an example:

When I graduated from undergrad, I had very little research experience and desire to conduct research in graduate school. I applied to clinical Ph.D. programs and was not accepted. I decided to accept an offer for a clinical psychology masters program, where I would complete a thesis and participate on a variety of research teams. I graduated with a 3.95 from that program and applied for clinical Ph.D. programs once again, with the same result. I also applied to a Psy.D program that I knew fit my clinical training needs and was congruent to my research interests. Yes, I would have loved to be in a Ph.D. program, as I will seek an academic teaching position in the future; however, that was not in the cards for me. I graduate this year after matching with an amazing internship site and this February I accepting a post-doc position at a well known site. In the end, the Psy.D pathway has resulted in debt, but it has also provided me the opportunity to gain amazing training and accomplish my career goals (becoming a psychologist). At this point in my studies, the Ph.D. vs. Psy.D debate has little to no relevance in my life (other than these threads where the same people push their one sided elitist opinions) and the same will happen for you, regardless which pathway you select.

I am aware that the debate will creep in again, specifically when I begin submitting applications for teaching positions; however, I know the value and experience I bring to the interview. To this point, my degree has not held me back from any opportunities and I think if you do your part (aka - study your ass off), you will find the same results.

Find your path, embrace it, and flip the bird to anyone that tells you otherwise! Good luck and hit me up if you need anything (although I don't check the forum that often)!

 

[LAPsyGuy]

Since when was it elitist to not be a fan of crippling debt? I don't recall anyone bashing the quality of Pepperdine, merely it's outrageous cost.

Because you repeatedly say it's a stupid decision, which means you look down on people who make that decision. That is by definition elitist.

 

[schoolpsy21]

Maybe consider looking at LIU-Post in New York. They offer partial funding for a Psy.D, and have a good rep in the area.

 

[Phanicus]

I appreciate all of the discussion and I definitely have a lot to consider. I am going to look into PhDs that fit my needs but I'm not holding my breath on getting in. I still however think that a PsyD would be a great option for me. This is something I'll have to figure out what is best for me and my career goals.

Pepperdine is probably too expensive, but offers excellent training opportunities.

Pepperdine is quite expensive but I was under the impression that funding could be great in that program. And I'm not too worried about getting in and coasting along but I do prefer to be pushed and challenged.

(You may want to check out Baylor PsyD as well- I noticed they were not on your list of otherwise "high-tier" PsyDs).

Baylor was a top choice for a while but I've heard from several people and possibly on SDN that Waco is a nightmare and a terrible place to live. I know that may seem like a dumb reason to avoid a great program but living somewhere like that for ~6 years sounds miserable.

Maybe consider looking at LIU-Post in New York. They offer partial funding for a Psy.D, and have a good rep in the area.

I also looked into LIU and found out that tuition remission is available but only about 10-20K/year for someone in my position, leaving me with tuition of 30-40k/year. That's hard to even consider.

Feel free to keep the info and recommendations for schools coming.

 

[473912]

Since when was it elitist to not be a fan of crippling debt? I don't recall anyone bashing the quality of Pepperdine, merely it's outrageous cost.

No one is a fan of crippling debt, but if you want to practice at the highest level, but aren't fortunate enough to get into a funded program, you have no other choice.

 

[erg923]

Because you repeatedly say it's a stupid decision, which means you look down on people who make that decision. That is by definition elitist.

I would argue that it's an irrationale decision. All if us do irrational things of course, so this is not "stupid." It's quite a large irrationale decision, however. And, I think one can reasonably argue that the ability to make sound decisions in the face of data is an important attribute for those seeking to function as clinical scientists.

I am also aware that some people are risk adverse, whereas others are more risk seekers/takers. However, at some point the risk-benefit ratio decision making process will need to mature substantially in order to function adequately as a practitioner and/or scientist. Cost-vs benefit decision making regarding money, labor (cost and time of certain assessment procedures vs what is gained from them), service duplication, and clinic utilization/resource allocation come into play for me everyday as a clinician. And I don't even work for a organization that has to make a profit from my services!

 

[WisNeuro]

Good people make stupid decisions all the time. You are making leaps of reasoning in your assumptions, but I guess that is your prerogative. And we talked about this, there are always alternative choices, no one is forced into any one path.

 

[LAPsyGuy]

I would argue that it's an irrationale decision. All if us do irrational things of course, so this is not "stupid." It's quite a large irrationale decision, however. And, I think one can reasonably argue that the ability to make sound decisions in the face of data is an important attribute for those seeking to function as clinical scientists.

I am also aware that some people are risk adverse, whereas others are more risk seekers/takers. However, at some point the risk-benefit ratio decision making process will need to mature substantially in order to function adequately as a practitioner and/or scientist. Cost-vs benefit decision making regarding money, labor (cost and time of certain assessment procedures vs what is gained from them), service duplication, and clinic utilization/resource allocation come into play for me everyday as a clinician. And I don't even work for a organization that has to make a profit from my services!

So if you go to an expensive program, you're irrational and probably not capable of the type of thinking needed to be a competent clinical psychologist? Is that your argument?

 

[erg923]

So if you go to an expensive program, you're irrational and probably not capable of the type of thinking needed to be a competent clinical psychologist? Is that your argument?

I will let my post speak for itself. I don’t really care how you interpret, or more likely, misinterpret it. K?

I would argue that it's an irrationale decision. All if us do irrational things of course, so this is not "stupid." It's quite a large irrationale decision, however. And, I think one can reasonably argue that the ability to make sound decisions in the face of data is an important attribute for those seeking to function as clinical scientists.

I am also aware that some people are risk adverse, whereas others are more risk seekers/takers. However, at some point the risk-benefit ratio decision making process will need to mature substantially in order to function adequately as a practitioner and/or scientist. Cost-vs benefit decision making regarding money, labor (cost and time of certain assessment procedures vs what is gained from them), service duplication, and clinic utilization/resource allocation come into play for me everyday as a clinician. And I don't even work for a organization that has to make a profit from my services!

 

[LAPsyGuy]

No, not K.

I was asking a real and earnest question. I wanted to know if I understood your post. why wouldn't you want to offer a simple clarification?

 

[erg923]

No, not K.

The "K" wasnt really an invitation for debate. It was rhetorical.

 

[MCParent]

....you have no other choice.

...Yes, I would have loved to be in a Ph.D. program, as I will seek an academic teaching position in the future; however, that was not in the cards for me...

Did I fall asleep and wake up in the The Giver world?

 

[LAPsyGuy]

Oh, must have been confused by the question mark.

 

[MCParent]

...In the end, you will make the right decision, you will move forward with your life, and you will forget everything ever mentioned about the Ph.D vs. Psy.D debate.
...
Find your path, embrace it, and flip the bird to anyone that tells you otherwise! ...

This is just myopic and silly. It's not a PsyD vs PhD thing; it's a minimal/no debt versus completely unrealistic debt for the income of the profession thing. You aren't going to make neurosurgeon money doing this.

I think US schools seriously lack reasonable financial planning instruction for high schoolers.