Official 2014-2015 Pre-interview thread

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Again, consider adding UTSW, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/educa...tter-from-the-residency-program-director.html

~Dr.W, PGY4


Psych56 said:
So, this question may sound naive but I need some help my Psych comrades. I am trying to figure out how to know if a program is a strong academic program. First off, I was told that if it is University based then it is an academic center but how do I know if one is stronger than another? My top programs after much research are now:
1) University of Illinois at Chicago
2) Indiana University
3) University of Washington
4) Medical University of South Carolina Program (I've read this is less academic)
5) University of South Florida Morsani Program
6) University of Colorado
7) University of Florida
8) University of North Carolina
...I'll be adding about 6 more to apply to. All but one of these programs has an Addiction Psych Fellowship which is an interest of mine.

Any help would be GREAT!
Click to expand...
Members don't see this ad.
 
NickNaylor said:
If you know you want to be in psychiatry, why would you apply to other fields? Doesn't really make much sense.
Click to expand...

It's not about sense, LOL! There's a huge bias against psychiatry in many areas. Preceptors are generally disappointed (and non-supportive) when told I'm applying for psych. Also, at least one guy is dragging his feet on my LOR. I'm guessing he feels it's a waste of time or Psych isn't competitive enough to be worried about LORs.

Feedback has ranged from "those people will drive you crazy" to "Your great bedside manner would be wasted in psychiatry because it doesn't really matter what you say to those people". It's just weird hearing someone say you're too good of a doctor to be a psychiatrist. It's as if a part of our medical culture don't feel those with mental disease or illness don't deserve great care.

Watching paint dry, and waiting for it to peel, is more stimulating than immunization schedules.

I'm applying to around 70 programs. I just can't make myself apply to IM/FM, heart's not in it. :)
 
jakeislove said:
It's not about sense, LOL! There's a huge bias against psychiatry in many areas. Preceptors are generally disappointed (and non-supportive) when told I'm applying for psych. Also, at least one guy is dragging his feet on my LOR. I'm guessing he feels it's a waste of time or Psych isn't competitive enough to be worried about LORs.

Feedback has ranged from "those people will drive you crazy" to "Your great bedside manner would be wasted in psychiatry because it doesn't really matter what you say to those people". It's just weird hearing someone say you're too good of a doctor to be a psychiatrist. It's as if a part of our medical culture don't feel those with mental disease or illness don't deserve great care.

Watching paint dry, and waiting for it to peel, is more stimulating than immunization schedules.

I'm applying to around 70 programs. I just can't make myself apply to IM/FM, heart's not in it. :)
Click to expand...

I've experienced similar misgivings after deciding on psych and making my attendings aware of that choice. For better or worse, psych seems to be the little scrawny kid in the medicine gang. I'm not really sure what that has to do with your decision to pursue it as a career, though.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
NickNaylor said:
I've experienced similar misgivings after deciding on psych and making my attendings aware of that choice. For better or worse, psych seems to be the little scrawny kid in the medicine gang. I'm not really sure what that has to do with your decision to pursue it as a career, though.
Click to expand...

The best reactions have been from my surgery attendings. At the beginning of 3rd year I'd squeak out that I was interested in psych and brace myself. Now I tell them I'm applying to psych and smirk at their own insecurities.
 
MLT2MT2DO said:
The best reactions have been from my surgery attendings. At the beginning of 3rd year I'd squeak out that I was interested in psych and brace myself. Now I tell them I'm applying to psych and smirk at their own insecurities.
Click to expand...

Yup. On my CT ICU rotation in surgery I had an attending talk smack about first a psychiatrist that did a consult on a patient and the psychiatry generally. The fellow leaned over and told him I was going into psych. The complete embarrassment on his face followed by an apology was absolutely priceless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
NickNaylor said:
Yup. On my CT ICU rotation in surgery I had an attending talk smack about first a psychiatrist that did a consult on a patient and the psychiatry generally. The fellow leaned over and told him I was going into psych. The complete embarrassment on his face followed by an apology was absolutely priceless.
Click to expand...

LOL the best for me was when a nurse asked me what I want to do, I say Psych and she responds " Oh no! Why? ...But you don't look like you're crazy!"
 
jakeislove said:
It's not about sense, LOL! There's a huge bias against psychiatry in many areas. Preceptors are generally disappointed (and non-supportive) when told I'm applying for psych. Also, at least one guy is dragging his feet on my LOR. I'm guessing he feels it's a waste of time or Psych isn't competitive enough to be worried about LORs.

Feedback has ranged from "those people will drive you crazy" to "Your great bedside manner would be wasted in psychiatry because it doesn't really matter what you say to those people". It's just weird hearing someone say you're too good of a doctor to be a psychiatrist. It's as if a part of our medical culture don't feel those with mental disease or illness don't deserve great care.

Watching paint dry, and waiting for it to peel, is more stimulating than immunization schedules.

I'm applying to around 70 programs. I just can't make myself apply to IM/FM, heart's not in it. :)
Click to expand...

I think the comments in bold say everything you need to know about the people making them. Whatever they say should not be listened to.

If you haven't already, you'll come to realize that in medicine everyone talks **** about everyone else. No specialty is off limits (well maybe neurosurgery). I think there are many people in medicine who are simultaneously insecure and have massive egos. They get off on trashing every other specialty and telling themselves that they can do everything that the others do, and better. I think it just makes them feel better about their own decisions. To be honest, like most students I've struggled a bit with the idea of being so far removed from medicine, but when people start trashing other specialties (especially psych and/or psych patients) on other rotations, it emphasizes the bright side of being removed from the rest of medicine--getting away from such a petty, hierarchical and often hostile and corrosive culture.

In my experience, the residents and attendings I've admired the most--the ones who are self-assured yet humble, incredibly knowledgable, great teachers and excellent with patients--have all been really supportive of me wanting to go into psych and readily talk about what a great field it is. They recognize how important good psychiatric care is, and the value of also treating that aspect of their patients.

And I'm pretty sure letter writers dragging their feet is a universal problem...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
NickNaylor said:
I've experienced similar misgivings after deciding on psych and making my attendings aware of that choice. For better or worse, psych seems to be the little scrawny kid in the medicine gang. I'm not really sure what that has to do with your decision to pursue it as a career, though.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, many fields do the same to outsiders. My EM buddy would get told that he is basically a triage nurse for the medicine floor. Peds friends are asked why they chose a field that gets paid less than NP's. Surgery friends are asked if they have time for a life.

Psych probably is stigmatized more than most, but don't think you would escape criticism in other fields.
 
TexasPhysician said:
For what it's worth, many fields do the same to outsiders. My EM buddy would get told that he is basically a triage nurse for the medicine floor. Peds friends are asked why they chose a field that gets paid less than NP's. Surgery friends are asked if they have time for a life.

Psych probably is stigmatized more than most, but don't think you would escape criticism in other fields.
Click to expand...

Though you have a point that there's always backroom jousting going on, I've found that psych in partivcular seems to bear a large brunt of genuine... ill will, for lack of a better phrase. Don't get me wrong - this isn't the least bit bothersome to me on a personal level. I don't think many of us care too much whether a physician from another specialty validates the importance of psychiatry. But where little jabs in other specialties seem to be clearly joking, when directed at psychiatry many of them are not. I've come across a surprising number oof attendings who seem to think that psychiatry is only for people who could barely get through medical school and/or voodoo that has no place in modern medical care. I don't really see the same being said about other fields.

Regardless, it's all a moot point because who really cares at the end of the day.
 
I agree nick. We're not alone in the war of the specialties but we seem to have a broader, more sincere base of detractors. But you know an inverse phenomenon occurs between interns of different specialties that is more real than the pontification of those far removed from residency training or those waiting to enter it. Now all of sudden people are getting rocked by the realities of their career choice and psych doesn't look so bad. I've had 2 serious inquiries from co-interns on my medicine rotations about if my PD took 2nd year transfers.

I doubt the reverse is more often the case.

Lousy consults are lousy consults. I know our pychiatry consult service is generally well regarded by medicine people, so a lot of this stuff is microcontextual.
 
jakeislove said:
It's not about sense, LOL! There's a huge bias against psychiatry in many areas. Preceptors are generally disappointed (and non-supportive) when told I'm applying for psych. Also, at least one guy is dragging his feet on my LOR. I'm guessing he feels it's a waste of time or Psych isn't competitive enough to be worried about LORs.

Feedback has ranged from "those people will drive you crazy" to "Your great bedside manner would be wasted in psychiatry because it doesn't really matter what you say to those people". It's just weird hearing someone say you're too good of a doctor to be a psychiatrist. It's as if a part of our medical culture don't feel those with mental disease or illness don't deserve great care.

Watching paint dry, and waiting for it to peel, is more stimulating than immunization schedules.

I'm applying to around 70 programs. I just can't make myself apply to IM/FM, heart's not in it. :)
Click to expand...

Yup, you'll get those responses a lot. I had a resident say "Oh but why? You are too smart for psych" and others tell me that I'll never be respected in the hospital and that I should have just gone into neuro if I liked to study the brain so much. Yeah....clearly those people are uneducated about psych and must have slept through their M3 clerkship. Sometimes if I have time, I'll bring up some of the tougher cases we deal with to just enlighten them a little about what it is that we do day-to-day. Ironically, in my experience, the people that bitch that most about psych are the first ones to page the psych-on-call for a consult the minute a patient acts out.

On the other hand, I also had an attending congratulate me on my bravery to go into a field where you deal with a lot of emotional stuff. And a few attendings told me I made the right choice since I'll have a good work-life balance. So I guess it just depends. I wouldn't let anyone's negative opinions deter you. There will always be naysayers no matter what you do. Hell there are probably people out there that will question your decision to go into medicine in the first place.
 
To this day, my med school roommate asks me if I've cured any diseases today? I respond with - have you seen any diseases today or just inspected well children?

We have both completed residency (him in peds obviously), and the joking banter doesn't end. I think it's all good fun.

If you haven't seen the youtube animated bear video involving a pediatrician bear and a plastic surgery bear, you need to. I'll try to post the link below.

 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
OK, if we're doing specialty videos, here are some good psych ones.

Psych versus medicine:


Medicine versus psych (sometimes I think we are this lame)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
NickNaylor said:
Yup. On my CT ICU rotation in surgery I had an attending talk smack about first a psychiatrist that did a consult on a patient and the psychiatry generally. The fellow leaned over and told him I was going into psych. The complete embarrassment on his face followed by an apology was absolutely priceless.
Click to expand...

One Attending was explaining that Psych was the biggest BS, ever. Explained that his wife was a retired psychiatrist. I (being a kind, loving soul) opined that she retired to focus all her energy on helping him. :) He genuinely laughed out loud and commented that she should have been able to cure him by now, LOL!

The only thing he had a lower opinion of was psychoanalysis.
 
I watched the internal med vs psych video last night and chuckled, but thought it was a little over-the-top because I never had a conversation anywhere close to that onmy first month of psych consults last month. However.... I'm on inpatient medicine at the VA now and I had this exact conversation with my ATTENDING this morning!!

Pt is an 88 yo who presents for the third time with AMS after going up on morphine dose. Waxing and waning orientation, lethargy, hallucinating since onset, some baseline vascular dementia. If you look up "delirium," it shows this guy's picture. Wife says he is not himself and the confusion and disirientation came on suddenly.

My attending this am: "this guy is schizophrenic. This is probably his baseline. Call psych. They should take him to their floor."
I tried to explain my opinion to him with no success. Imagine my embarrassment consulting psych today!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Go ahead and apply broadly, but think about money and plan a couple of expensive trips. Think about where you can get multiple interviews out of one plane flight. Then keep interviews down to reasonable. If you get 8 or 10, you are 99% likely to be fine. Do not interview anywhere you are unwilling to go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Figured this was best place of any, Im working on my pre-interview research and one of the obvious hang ups with stanford its is housing is wicked expensive out there. Im trying to figure out the salary for psych residents, their website links to the GME one, but can't seem to find it on there. Anybody know where it is? Also trying to figure if psych gives any housing allowance like some of the other departments do
 
Here's my list in no particular order, I likely want to do child
University of Arizona ( and the South Campus program)
University of Colorado
Institute of Living
University of Iowa
Indiana University
University of Kentucky
University of Louisville
Tufts
University of Massachusetts
University of MN
Wash U
University of New Mexico
Ohio State
University of Cincinnati
OHSU
Palmetto
Vanderbilt
University of Washington
University of Wisconsin
Medical College of Wisconsin

Here's my stats:
DO school in Midwest, bottom 25% of my class
COMLEX I: 448
COMLEX II: 538, PE pass
brief research, leadership in a club, volunteering, no red flags
 
Tomorrow is the big day! :clap: My updated list in no particular order:

1. University of Colorado
2. University of Florida
3. University of South Florida Morsani Program
4. Northwestern University
5. U of I Chicago
6. Indiana University
7. University of Missouri-Columbia
8. University of North Carolina
9. Medical University of South Carolina
10. UTSW
11. University of Washington
12. ...a Massachusetts program

I want to apply to a Massachusetts program. Does anyone have advice on one that fits into my list while having a chance at an interview? I was also considering a California program but I didn't think I was a competitive enough applicant.

Step 1: 219
Step 2 CK/ CS: 229, will take in December
School: Midwest Program, allopathic
Class Rank: Probably bottom half
Grades in Clerkship: Passed
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 2 undergrad org chem publications, 1 undergrad cell & molec publication, and a paper currently being reviewed for publication (state specific mandatory reporting and guidelines for psychiatrists). ECs include some volunteer work and Psych interest group.
Red Flags: No
 
Psych56 said:
Tomorrow is the big day! :clap: My updated list in no particular order:

1. University of Colorado
2. University of Florida
3. University of South Florida Morsani Program
4. Northwestern University
5. U of I Chicago
6. Indiana University
7. University of Missouri-Columbia
8. University of North Carolina
9. Medical University of South Carolina
10. UTSW
11. University of Washington
12. ...a Massachusetts program

I want to apply to a Massachusetts program. Does anyone have advice on one that fits into my list while having a chance at an interview? I was also considering a California program but I didn't think I was a competitive enough applicant.

Step 1: 219
Step 2 CK/ CS: 229, will take in December
School: Midwest Program, allopathic
Class Rank: Probably bottom half
Grades in Clerkship: Passed
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 2 undergrad org chem publications, 1 undergrad cell & molec publication, and a paper currently being reviewed for publication (state specific mandatory reporting and guidelines for psychiatrists). ECs include some volunteer work and Psych interest group.
Red Flags: No
Click to expand...

You have a shot at some Cali programs. Apply to several and you may be happily surprised.
 
Agree with the above posters, psych56. California programs are more competitive due to being in California, but there's a lot of variance of competitiveness. Apply to any program >5 miles from the water and you will be a strong candidate.
 
I saw an e-mail that said it would be availible to the program side 12:00 PM EST. Is it just too much traffic or just not time yet?
 
Oops, that was an e-mail from NRMP. I called ERAS, their server is down and they are working on it. They didn't estimate when it would be back up. Anyway, it is on their end, not ours.
 
Don’t worry; the outcomes will be the same. Maybe ERAS hired the people who worked on the ACA’s (Obama Care’s) web site. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
splik said:
You already have the upper hand against many IMG and DO applicants as a US allopathic student.
Click to expand...

Kind of a bummer that allos w below avg board scores have a better shot at some of the so-called "competitive" programs compared to osteos w above avg scores. Oh well... That's just the way it is and not expecting any change.
 
Wasn't really sure where to ask this and didn't want to start a new thread, but what are you guys doing for programs that don't spell out how many LoRs they accept on their websites? I've tried calling many and no one picks up (I'm sure it's a busy day). Just assume 3?

Mostly I don't want to be in a position where I only send 3 to a program that requires 4 or has specific requirements for who they want letters from. But I'd hope if that were the case they'd publish it online.
 
I was just going to assign all 4 letters to all programs. I hope this doesn't seem sloppy.
 
Thanks splik.

Psych56, as I was going through websites it seemed like--of the programs that address LoR requirements online at all--quite a few (half?) say something like "minimum of three letters...".
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Dharma said:
Kind of a bummer that allos w below avg board scores have a better shot at some of the so-called "competitive" programs compared to osteos w above avg scores. Oh well... That's just the way it is and not expecting any change.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it is unfair, but the reality is that you most applicants assess a program's strength/desirability by the medical schools that residents attended because that's the most accessible information. The rules also apply to lower scoring/achieving applicants from more prestigious MD schools over less prestigious MD schools. Overall, though, this isn't that big a deal but might make a difference in some places.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Doctor Bagel said:
Yeah, it is unfair, but the reality is that you most applicants assess a program's strength/desirability by the medical schools that residents attended because that's the most accessible information. The rules also apply to lower scoring/achieving applicants from more prestigious MD schools over less prestigious MD schools. Overall, though, this isn't that big a deal but might make a difference in some places.
Click to expand...
True. I buy into… and I'm pretty cool with it too. Just gets to me every once in a while… then I get over it. Choices.
 
Application submitted and programs applied to. Let the journey begin!!! Woot woot!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Applied this AM after giving up yesterday. First 2 invites this PM! Finally the ball is finally rolling YAY
 
hoodwinkd said:
Applied this AM after giving up yesterday. First 2 invites this PM! Finally the ball is finally rolling YAY
Click to expand...

Seriously? People are getting invites already? What programs are these?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The dean's letters aren't even going out until Oct 1 from my school. So...I won't be joining the fun until after that :/
 
My deans letter hasn't even been written yet and I just got my first invite, so you may be joining in the fun sooner than you think!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Fabio001 said:
My deans letter hasn't even been written yet and I just got my first invite, so you may be joining in the fun sooner than you think!
Click to expand...

wow, that's awesome. congrats to whoever is getting these interviews!! you guys must be superstar applicants!

is there an interview thread started on this forum to see where people are getting these interviews yet?
 
applied to 174 got one rejection and two acknowledgments, hopefully we all get great news in the upcoming days
 
BeastInfection said:
Wow that was fast. Congrats!
Click to expand...
Thanks!! Don't worry, they will come. Trust me, I'm no superstar lol I'm your standard below-avg-statistic with no giant red-flags. I tried to target programs in warm areas (minus Cali as I am but an lowly DO candidate) that are more child friendly or have CAD programs. Thus far I've heard from schools in Louisiana, Alabama and Florida.

What I'm starting to worry about is scheduling as it seems everyone's interviews fall pretty much on the same dates (Fridays from late oct to early Dec)..don't know about other programs but hope there is more variety

On the + side, I didn't realize so many programs provide accommodations. Win!
 
Psych56 said:
The dean's letters aren't even going out until Oct 1 from my school. So...I won't be joining the fun until after that :/
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure they can't be accessed by programs until Oct 1 regardless of if it's uploaded
 
I applied to 23 programs and got an interview today at a nice mid-tier program out west. A nice start! Exciting. Looking forward to this crazy process getting on the road.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

Shimmmy
Official 2021 Rank Order List Thread
Replies
46
Views
13K
TexasPhysician
TexasPhysician
N
Official 2019-2020 Psychiatry Interview Invite Thread
3 4 5 6 7
Replies
323
Views
93K
moromoke
M
D
Is there a newer psych interview thread for 2022-2023
Replies
2
Views
1K
StilgarMD
StilgarMD
Sushirolls
The C/L Bashing Thread
Replies
29
Views
2K
docksan
docksan
Nasrudin
AI workflow design thread
Replies
34
Views
1K
Nasrudin
Nasrudin
Top