Please cancel interviews if your not going to attend

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microshar88

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Last week I interviewed at a place where a candidate was a no -show. Please cancel if you don't plan on attending so that someone local can take the spot . I know ten ppl who could have taken this guys slot ! Not cool

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Let someone else have an opportunity if you're not interested.
 
Interview hoarding is on the rise unfortunately. People are going to more interviews than they should, applying more places than they should and bogging down the whole system. And then programs are getting less interested candidates in higher numbers.

I'm not sure what the answer to that is.

But public shaming seems like a good start. Unload those interviews you schmucks!
 
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If there is anything worse than spending an hour talking to an applicant that has no intention on coming to your program, it would be spending a day interviewing at a program and having to pretend to be interested when you are not. Please realistically assess your funding and time and cancel interviews if you are not going to come. Calling us and canceling after we have arranged a full day of interviews is irritating and it does waste spots. If you give us only 10 days notice, it is very hard to call someone and say “we will interview you next Friday, but you have to drop everything and buy an expensive plane ticket”.
 
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This is a creeping problem throughout the entire system. Premeds are applying to 30 or 40 schools, going on 10+ interviews. Undergrads are sending out as many as 60+ applications to colleges. People hear about other people applying "broadly" and figure they have to do the same in order to have any chance of being competitive.

I also don't know the answer, but I did my small part by only applying to the 3 schools that interested me, and only going to the 1 interview of the first school that accepted me and then cancelling the other applications. I know that the match process is more involved, but it would seem to be more productive for everyone if people stuck to the programs that truly interest them.
 
Since the MATCH is part of a organized system, it's possible to modify it so that people that do not show up for interviews could be reported to the system, but only if the people that run the system allow this to happen.

People that do not show should have a mark against them because it's just plain rude and does show disorganization and lack of respect.
 
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Since the MATCH is part of a organized system, it's possible to modify it so that people that do not show up for interviews could be reported to the system, but only if the people that run the system allow this to happen. People that do not show should have a mark against them because it's just plain rude and does show disorganization and lack of respect.

What happens if you get a mark? Considering the only power NRMP has is over the match outcome. Bump someone down the list? How would that even work anyway? Or three strikes and you're out? The idea of a "mark" sounds good, but what would be the implications/significance of those marks?
 
I'm not sure what happened during OPs interview but I haven't seen a large number of vacated spots, leading to the need for an organized marking system. I've also known a few students where last minute travel issues out of their control (weather) led to missing interviews, and was personally the victim of a scheduling miscommunication where the confirmed date emailed to me differed from what was written in the schedule. I think it's dangerous to assume missed interviews are usually due to unprofessional behavior and would give the benefit of the doubt to the applicant. Maybe someone on the selection side of the process can give a better idea of what percentage of missed interviews are due to malicious acts
 
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What happens if you get a mark? Considering the only power NRMP has is over the match outcome. Bump someone down the list? How would that even work anyway? Or three strikes and you're out? The idea of a "mark" sounds good, but what would be the implications/significance of those marks?

It'll have to be up to the MATCH or the PDs to determine what to do with this data. Personally, I'd bear it in mind with the other data on the applicant. Given that interviews and LORs have no statistical data showing they help determine if someone is a good candidate, and that scores are a weak indicator, this is more important that it might sound, at least for me.
 
Interview hoarding is on the rise unfortunately. People are going to more interviews than they should, applying more places than they should and bogging down the whole system. And then programs are getting less interested candidates in higher numbers

That isn't really what this thread is about. You're talking about something different. People not showing up to interviews (assuming it wasn't a weather/illness-related absence) are just plain rude, obnoxious, and arrogant. People "hoarding" interviews is perfectly acceptable, given how competitive the match system is. They've earned their interview slot and if they plan to attend to learn more about the program and put another slot on their rank list, they should be allowed to without interview-shaming. Frankly, I went on way more interviews than I needed to, but you don't know that at the time. All you know is that there is a chance that you won't match and the possibility of matching in some state you don't truly want to go to is better than the possibility of not matching at all.

I also don't know the answer, but I did my small part by only applying to the 3 schools that interested me, and only going to the 1 interview of the first school that accepted me and then cancelling the other applications. I know that the match process is more involved, but it would seem to be more productive for everyone if people stuck to the programs that truly interest them.

Finish med school, get to the match, then we'll talk.
 
That isn't really what this thread is about.

Yeah, I see that now. Still, earning something and then buying up a finite commodity without the intent to use, is still a problem in the match interviewing process. I mean, it's not a huge deal. I think it just randomizes and diminishes the rate of ideal matches because truly interested applicants are getting flooded out by application noise.

If you have intentions of scouting a program and doing that more extensively than the next guy then this peer pressure complaint is not directed at you.

But if you are a solid to superb applicant you don't need to interview at programs you're not interested in out of neuroticism. I did this for maybe 2 programs that I already scheduled before getting late interview offers from programs I liked better and I'm not proud of wasting those good people's time.
 
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The problem is that you're assuming that a candidate over-qualified for a program is just wasting time or being neurotic when, in fact, in many cases they're not. I think this is a much smaller issue than implied. Usually, finances and the need/want for time off is the deciding factor that keeps candidates from interviewing willy nilly all over the country. That's especially true for psych-bound applicants than most other fields.
 
The problem is that you're assuming that a candidate over-qualified for a program is just wasting time or being neurotic when, in fact, in many cases they're not. I think this is a much smaller issue than implied. Usually, finances and the need/want for time off is the deciding factor that keeps candidates from interviewing willy nilly all over the country. That's especially true for psych-bound applicants than most other fields.

yeah. come to think of it. That's what stopped me from interviewing more. I guess there's a natural ecology to this that renders it what it is without the need to moralize about it. point taken.
 
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Agreed! its super douchey for people to be no shows! Especially now as a resident when I'm taking time out of my busy schedule to give tours, attend lunches/dinners etc. I will admit when applying I did accept too many interviews but I always cancelled them in advance.
 
The problem is that you're assuming that a candidate over-qualified for a program is just wasting time or being neurotic when, in fact, in many cases they're not.

Agree. While some applicants may be over-doing it, this is understandable given that their last frame of reference was applying to get into a medical school.

I got no problem with someone doing several interviewers, though doing too many is a waste for everyone but does not suggest selfishness. For many, especially the applicant, there's no way to tell how many is too much to a specific number. To not show up to an interview without cancelling, now that's just being rude.
 
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Could they cap the number of interviews? The 15+ I'm hearing out there sounds kind of ridiculous. How much time y'all bailing on during rotations for this neurotic rat race?
 
Agree. While some applicants may be over-doing it, this is understandable given that their last frame of reference was applying to get into a medical school.

I got no problem with someone doing several interviewers, though doing too many is a waste for everyone but does not suggest selfishness. For many, especially the applicant, there's no way to tell how many is too much to a specific number. To not show up to an interview without cancelling, now that's just being rude.

I probably applied to "too many" programs and went on "too many" interviews, but this was largely because my fiancé and I wanted to go to a new city and we wanted to have plenty of options in terms of where we could potentially go. It's also hard to really get the gist of a program without actually going there, and I wanted to see a number of programs to see what the options were.

I see nothing wrong with going on a ton of interviews. If you have the means and the desire, go for it.
 
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Could they cap the number of interviews? The 15+ I'm hearing out there sounds kind of ridiculous. How much time y'all bailing on during rotations for this neurotic rat race?

No, they shouldn't cap the number of interviews. Let people go where they want. If they want to spend money on that many interviews, why shouldn't they? Let's not ask for more rules and regulations here. At some point, you have to trust in the system and common sense to take over without needing a jillion rules to insure "fairness."
 
From the applicant’s side, I would agree, but from the program side, everyone going to 15 interviews means that you have to weaken the interview experience and interview 15x your number of slots. This gives more people a less reliable image of the program and makes PDs play games like “let me see if this applicant has any connection to our area”. This in turn makes applicants try and include connections in their applications. The madness needs to stop somewhere.
 
I have little faith in the typical med student.
 
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A lot of people have little faith in the typical physician. :doctor:
 
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What happens if you get a mark? Considering the only power NRMP has is over the match outcome. Bump someone down the list? How would that even work anyway? Or three strikes and you're out? The idea of a "mark" sounds good, but what would be the implications/significance of those marks?

Why not let all programs see the "mark". I'm not a PD but if I was and planning on ranking a person to match but I saw said person had 3 marks of "no shows" I would probably think twice. Also if the student is a habitual no-shower, future invites the person has may elect to cancel his/her interview and go with someone more reliable.
 
Why not just have the police come and drag no-shows to the interview? Or have your medical school dean just decide were you will do residency and hash it out with program directors. Or just report people who cancel with insufficient notice to the medical board so that they can't get a license. I don't know the right solution, but this is obviously a huge problem to warrant instituting a nationwide registry of medical student attendance. Why limit it to program directors? I think future patients have a right to know you cancelled an interview with insufficient notice. Maybe we could model it on the national registry of doctors who keep their patients waiting.
 
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Why not just have the police come and drag no-shows to the interview? Or have your medical school dean just decide were you will do residency and hash it out with program directors. Or just report people who cancel with insufficient notice to the medical board so that they can't get a license. I don't know the right solution, but this is obviously a huge problem to warrant instituting a nationwide registry of medical student attendance. Why limit it to program directors? I think future patients have a right to know you cancelled an interview with insufficient notice. Maybe we could model it on the national registry of doctors who keep their patients waiting.

You're right, screw common courtesy. Picking up a phone probably is too much to ask of a person.
 
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Why not just have the police come and drag no-shows to the interview? Or have your medical school dean just decide were you will do residency and hash it out with program directors. Or just report people who cancel with insufficient notice to the medical board so that they can't get a license. I don't know the right solution, but this is obviously a huge problem to warrant instituting a nationwide registry of medical student attendance. Why limit it to program directors? I think future patients have a right to know you cancelled an interview with insufficient notice. Maybe we could model it on the national registry of doctors who keep their patients waiting.

Not sure if serious... this seems ridiculously overkill and totally nonsensical. I'm not sure why patients should know that you didn't go to a residency interview 4+ years ago nor how that has anything to do with the care you're providing them.
 
Sarcasm is often hard to read in a forum, but I rather like the ideas expressed.:naughty:
 
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you cannot blame people for circumstances beyond control (i.e. bad weather, health issues, being pregnant and having to put the safety of your child first.)

this is real life, things come up all the time when you least expect it. just because you are a physician/med student does not mean that you are exempt from these occurrences and to falsely put blame on someone for just not showing up without knowing the facts is absurd.

for example, if my husband had severe abdominal pain at 3 AM the night before an interview (heaven forbid), do you think the first thing on my mind would be to all the program coordinator as I rush him to the ER? NO!

we live in a real world with real issues!
 
for example, if my husband had severe abdominal pain at 3 AM the night before an interview (heaven forbid), do you think the first thing on my mind would be to all the program coordinator as I rush him to the ER? NO!
God no. But if you look at a collection of no shows for residency interviews, the vast majority are going to be issue of unprofessionalism, not Acts of God. There are many reasons for cancellation of interviews but very, very few for actual no shows.
we live in a real world with real issues!
True. But you're about to experience Real World Real Issues as a resident and doctor too. In any given residency, we get those. But low and behold, residents manage to call in when something terrible happens. It's a uncomfortable but people expect it. Because we all sympathize with Acts of God, but still patients come into the ER and still patients need care overnight and someone needs to see them all. And your fellow residents and program will move mountains and earth to accommodate, but you need to make a call.

I don't think any master registry is realistic or really desired, but I do know that if I knew an applicant blew off interviews at other programs that they would be very, very low on my personal ROL if at all. While every residency program would love to match a bunch of superstars, it's even more desired to make sure you don't match a bunch of folks who you can't count on to exercise judgment and professionalism during times of stress. Because those will be required more than once as a resident and doctor.
 
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for example, if my husband had severe abdominal pain at 3 AM the night before an interview (heaven forbid), do you think the first thing on my mind would be to all the program coordinator as I rush him to the ER? NO!
Actually, yes. In that situation, I would email the PC as soon as there was downtime in the ER visit. People can understand emergencies if you give them the chance to. I don't see why that would be too much to ask.
 
You're right, screw common courtesy. Picking up a phone probably is too much to ask of a person.

It's definitely asking too much.

Screw the other applicants who weren't extended an invitation and would have showed up!
 
Actually, yes. In that situation, I would email the PC as soon as there was downtime in the ER visit. People can understand emergencies if you give them the chance to. I don't see why that would be too much to ask.

Yes, that will be my top priority when I have downtime in the ER. Screw the fact that I have to call my in-laws or call the babysitter. I just better make sure I call the PC before I call anyone else.
 
Yes, that will be my top priority when I have downtime in the ER. Screw the fact that I have to call my in-laws or call the babysitter. I just better make sure I call the PC before I call anyone else.
Stop the strawmanning. I never said to make it top priority. But you have a professional responsibility that you will be unable to make, so spending the 2 minutes to deal with it is certainly a reasonable expectation.
 
Stop the strawmanning. I never said to make it top priority. But you have a professional responsibility that you will be unable to make, so spending the 2 minutes to deal with it is certainly a reasonable expectation.

I didn't intend to be rude and I do take your point that the PC should be notified, but I just hope that I won't be ranked because I had to cancel.
 
I didn't intend to be rude and I do take your point that the PC should be notified, but I just hope that I won't be ranked because I had to cancel.
The issue prompting this thread is not about last minute urgent/emergent cancellations due to illness or weather, etc--when that's the case we'll always find some way to reschedule, or at least do a phone interview if you really and truly are interested. (I did a phone interview last year for an applicant who had to go on bedrest, for example.) It's about applicants "hoarding" interviews that they set up back in October at programs at which they have no intention of interviewing--but failed to have the common courtesy to call and withdraw their application from.

I will say that in our experience the vast majority of such candidates have been quite polite in declining the invitation. But I understand that for those of you who feel that you've gotten very few interviews, the thought of non-serious candidates keeping an interview slot at a program you wish you could interview at is upsetting.
 
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I know someone who accepted/attended 21 IM interviews. That's crazy!
 
I think you guys are mostly talking about a problem that doesn't exist. I've said it before in another thread, but many people don't enjoy these interviews and the 'interview experience' much at all.
 
Yes, that will be my top priority when I have downtime in the ER. Screw the fact that I have to call my in-laws or call the babysitter. I just better make sure I call the PC before I call anyone else.

If you were employed would you or would you not call your employer to let them know you won't be in? How is this different? Because they haven't hired you yet? If you think it's ok to blow off potential employers without so much as a phone call of explanation prior to a no-show for a job interview, you're going to have a very hard time in the real world.

I know someone who accepted/attended 21 IM interviews. That's crazy!

Depends on their stats and whether or not they were a US MD. I, personally, know of someone who attended 14 IM interviews and still didn't match.
 
I think you guys are mostly talking about a problem that doesn't exist. I've said it before in another thread, but many people don't enjoy these interviews and the 'interview experience' much at all.

What does that have to do with anything?
 
If you were employed would you or would you not call your employer to let them know you won't be in? How is this different? Because they haven't hired you yet? If you think it's ok to blow off potential employers without so much as a phone call of explanation prior to a no-show for a job interview, you're going to have a very hard time in the real world.



Depends on their stats and whether or not they were a US MD. I, personally, know of someone who attended 14 IM interviews and still didn't match.

Her stats are good, Carib, and very cute.

Did that person interview horribly? Seems like one's chances would be very good with 14 interviews.
 
Her stats are good, Carib, and very cute.

Did that person interview horribly? Seems like one's chances would be very good with 14 interviews.

I don't think it had as much to do with interview as it did scores. Your friend, being a Carib grad, was smart to interview as many places as she could afford, especially if some of the programs were big academic centers.
 
An exception to all things except location(and that's very individual as far as preferences go) is if you feel that...say 10/12 current interns are SJWs for example. Dealing with that for 3 years would be tough. But even then it's salvageable in most cases.
 
Yes, that will be my top priority when I have downtime in the ER. Screw the fact that I have to call my in-laws or call the babysitter. I just better make sure I call the PC before I call anyone else.

You're right, you're the first medical student to ever feel overwhelmed and had to figure out how to balance priorities. Again this is about people "no showing", in this day and age if you can't figure out how to squeeze out 90 seconds of your life to shoot a quick email that would concern me.
 
People here have said over and over that we're not against someone not showing up for circumstances beyond their control, yet people still seem to think many of us our out to stick a bayonet into anyone's gut that no-shows.

This is like that episode of Seinfeld where Jerry and George had to say over and over "we're not gay, not that there's anything wrong with it!"
 
People here have said over and over that we're not against someone not showing up for circumstances beyond their control, yet people still seem to think many of us our out to stick a bayonet into anyone's gut that no-shows.

This is like that episode of Seinfeld where Jerry and George had to say over and over "we're not gay, not that there's anything wrong with it!"

With all due respect, whopper, you were the one who suggested applying a Black Mark of Doom to these applicants.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...
 
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We seem to be conflating two problems under the label of no-showing. Cancelling without adequate notice, while still a problem for programs, is understandable in some circumstances. If you realize 10 days before an interview, perhaps because of a really great interview somewhere else, that you are no longer interested in a program, I would think the sensible thing to do is to politely cancel, despite the fact that the program may have trouble filling your interview slot. If you knew earlier and waited to notify them, shame on you.

An actual no-show, where you don't even notify the PC, is rarely justifiable. The only thing I think would excuse it is a sudden calamity, such as the unexpected death of a close family member. Even then you should send a quick email if you think of it, but the oversight should not be held against you.
 
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We seem to be conflating two problems under the label of no-showing. Cancelling without adequate notice, while still a problem for programs, is understandable in some circumstances. If you realize 10 days before an interview, perhaps because of a really great interview somewhere else, that you are no longer interested in a program, I would think the sensible thing to do is to politely cancel, despite the fact that the program may have trouble filling your interview slot. If you knew earlier and waited to notify them, shame on you.

An actual no-show, where you don't even notify the PC, is rarely justifiable. The only thing I think would excuse it is a sudden calamity, such as the unexpected death of a close family member. Even then you should send a quick email if you think of it, but the oversight should not be held against you.

Agreed. Wonderful and concise post.
 
I just wanted to say, thank you to those that have been considerate enough to cancel. I have benefitted from your cancellations and I am feeling a little more optimistic about my chances of matching somewhere closer to my family. That really means a lot to me.
 
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