Popular blog post - harsh reality of vet med

[DVMDream]

Agree. I hear you, as someone who deals with chronic (daily) pain.

Sorry to hear about the chronic pain... that sucks.

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[NStarz]

Sorry to hear about the chronic pain... that sucks.

Honestly, I've learned to deal with it. Sometimes it gets me down, but it really pisses me off to no end when people try and *fix* me. Like I haven't seen a billion different doctors in the past however many years? I just take it day by day. And enjoy my drugs.

 

[DVMDream]

I hear you.

I mean...she's young and means well. Her intentions are to sound like an inspiring new vet who's ready to take on the world. But everone has different life experiences and those of us with issues such as the above (I have also struggled with several of them and understand the reflexible "God I hate you" type of thing we feel when someone comes dancing in all sunshine and daisies) have a harder time of it.

Yeah, she means well. And I don't disagree with all of what she said..

Like having outlets is a REALLY good thing... whatever those outlets might be...

But I just wonder if she isn't still in ivory tower of vet med (which I hear is much different than private practice, can't really comment yet since I have not started clinics).. and has she needed to start paying on loans yet? And has she ever reached the point of compassion fatigue? Or ever dealt with depression? It is simple enough to say to be happy and choose how you are going to be when you have never dealt with any of the above... I mean, good for her that she can do that, but that isn't the reality for everyone as is clear by the horrible suicide rate vet med has.

 

[DVMDream]

Honestly, I've learned to deal with it. Sometimes it gets me down, but it really pisses me off to no end when people try and *fix* me. Like I haven't seen a billion different doctors in the past however many years? I just take it day by day. And enjoy my drugs.

Yeah, I have had my own health issues too that come and go all the time... been to doctors and well, it is a long story.... I just try to not let it affect me, but sometimes it can get overwhelming.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I do disagree with this point she made:

Working long hours and being pushed to the breaking point is what will make you a better, more capable veterinarian.

Absolutely NOT. NO. This does NOT make you a better vet. Especially not being pushed to your breaking point. I have been there. It did not make me a better person. Being a good learner, a quick responder, a compassionate person, a good manager, a dedicated study, finding and taking advantage of good mentors...THAT is what makes you a better, more capable vet. Not working 80 hr weeks and taking constant call and going home feeling like you want to cry every day because you are at your breaking point.

That statement is completely and utterly bullcrap and it saddens me that new vets (and students too) think they have to endure constant misery to be a better vet.. It just feeds this masochistic type A culture that we have. It encouraged abusive practices (especially internships where people are worked to their limit because they think they have to ). It makes people miserable because they feel they are never working hard enough. We have enough of that mentality in our culture. It needs to stop.

To quote (and slightly paraphrase) Eric Waggoner:

To hell with all of my fellow [substituted insert: veterinarians] who bought so deeply into the idea of avoidable personal risk and constant sacrifice as an honorable condition under which to live, that they turned that condition into a culture of perverted, twisted pride and self-righteousness, to be celebrated and defended ........ To hell with everyone everywhere who ever mistook suffering for honor, and who ever taught that to their kids. There's nothing honorable about suffering. Nothing.

 

[NStarz]

Yeah, I have had my own health issues too that come and go all the time... been to doctors and well, it is a long story.... I just try to not let it affect me, but sometimes it can get overwhelming.

It really helps me put it into perspective, too, that there are people with the same condition I have who are bedridden and on disability. Not saying that they are any less than I am, but the fact that I am starting clinics in 4 months and am going to be a veterinarian...it just makes me really proud of myself, you know? Like I've done this despite of everything.

 

[DVMDream]

I do disagree with this point she made:

Working long hours and being pushed to the breaking point is what will make you a better, more capable veterinarian.

Absolutely NOT. NO. This does NOT make you a better vet. Especially not being pushed to your breaking point. I have been there. I did not make me a better person. Being a good learner, a quick responder, a compassionate person, a good manager, a dedicated study, finding and taking advantage of good mentors...THAT is what makes you a better, more capable vet. Not working 80 hr weeks and taking constant call and going home feeling like you want to cry every day because you are at your breaking point.

That statement is completely and utterly bull**** and it saddens me that new vets (and students too) think they have to endure bull**** to be a better vet.. It just feeds this masochistic type A culture that we have. It encouraged abusive practices (especially internships where people are worked to their limit because they think they have to )

To quote (and somewhat paraphrase) Eric Waggoner:

To hell with all of my fellow [substituted insert: veterinarians] who bought so deeply into the idea of avoidable personal risk and constant sacrifice as an honorable condition under which to live, that they turned that condition into a culture of perverted, twisted pride and self-righteousness, to be celebrated and defended against outsiders. To hell with that insular, xenophobic pathology...... To hell with everyone everywhere who ever mistook suffering for honor, and who ever taught that to their kids. There's nothing honorable about suffering. Nothing.

I noticed that part too and just shook my head.... that actually needs to be phased OUT... in all types of medicine... there is no reason to overwork people in any profession to the point where they are breaking and exhausted. It does NOT make anyone a better anything and most likely makes them WORSE because they are so exhausted and constantly pushed to a point that is unhealthy.

 

[jmo1012]

i just thought it was an interesting different perspective honestly. don't agree or disagree or whatever with either blog post i did at least find it encouraging that an intern could feel so positively though, because i feel like a ball of negative as a 4th year with regards to the major time sink and soul suck that 4th year is. quality of life is a big deal to me, and i at least liked hearing that one intern in the world was at least (sometimes) happy. gave me a fraction of hope

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Not to mention the guilt it induces. Then we all start acting like Boxer from Animal Farm.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

i just thought it was an interesting different perspective honestly. don't agree or disagree or whatever with either blog post i did at least find it encouraging that an intern could feel so positively though, because i feel like a ball of negative as a 4th year with regards to the major time sink and soul suck that 4th year is. quality of life is a big deal to me, and i at least liked hearing that one intern in the world was at least (sometimes) happy. gave me a fraction of hope

No, I get it. I know she means well and I'm glad that her intentions do work with some people! I think she just misspoke a lot and is still a bit naive. Refreshing, but naive.

 

[DVMDream]

i just thought it was an interesting different perspective honestly. don't agree or disagree or whatever with either blog post i did at least find it encouraging that an intern could feel so positively though, because i feel like a ball of negative as a 4th year with regards to the major time sink and soul suck that 4th year is. quality of life is a big deal to me, and i at least liked hearing that one intern in the world was at least (sometimes) happy. gave me a fraction of hope

yeah, it is interesting to see a different perspective. And it is nice to see that she is very happy. I can now say that I am happy a good 90% of the time, with the other 10% just being annoyed... which is better than how I was a couple years ago.

I just think she doesn't fully grasp some of the issues in vet med.

I think the mentality of "you choose how you feel" kind of ignores some of the big problems vet med does have and almost puts a feeling of guilt onto those who don't just wake up every morning feel sunshine, roses and unicorn rainbow farts...

 

[Trilt]

I think the mentality of "you choose how you feel" kind of ignores some of the big problems vet med does have and almost puts a feeling of guilt onto those who don't just wake up every morning feel sunshine, roses and unicorn rainbow farts...

That falls right behind "everything happens for a reason" as one of my most disliked quips.

I might have logged in every day in December for the Advent Calendar.

I neither confirm nor deny doing the same thing every year since starting university...

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I think the mentality of "you choose how you feel" kind of ignores some of the big problems vet med does have and almost puts a feeling of guilt onto those who don't just wake up every morning feel sunshine, roses and unicorn rainbow farts...

Exactly. It is a great sentiment in theory, but it has this weird indirect way of inducing guilt in people who, for whatever reason (mental health, physical health) sometimes can't really choose how they feel on any given day, or struggle to make that choice. Especially with regards to mental health. Then you start wondering "what is wrong with me, why can't I choose to be happy, I must be a failure, it's my fault, etc"

There is such a culture of guilt in our profession from every direction, even from ones that were initially well-intended. It saddens me.

 

[jmo1012]

yeah, it is interesting to see a different perspective. And it is nice to see that she is very happy. I can now say that I am happy a good 90% of the time, with the other 10% just being annoyed... which is better than how I was a couple years ago.

I just think she doesn't fully grasp some of the issues in vet med.

I think the mentality of "you choose how you feel" kind of ignores some of the big problems vet med does have and almost puts a feeling of guilt onto those who don't just wake up every morning feel sunshine, roses and unicorn rainbow farts...

yeah its definitely not as simple as just picking a job in government because you want a cushy life style - theres the whole finding a job, location, family/friends, financial circumstances, etc etc that make things much more simple.

fyi i posted the link only because it showed up on my newsfeed and i thought hmmm i bet sdn could use something else to procrastinate with

 

[DVMDream]

fyi i posted the link only because it showed up on my newsfeed and i thought hmmm i bet sdn could use something else to procrastinate with

Yeah, I am totally "listening" to this lecture on bovine mastitis treatment.... kind of. Not really. I am checking SDN and other internet things while it plays... not sure I have really learned anything...

Something something about culture and SCC and intra-mammary abx....

 

[WildZoo]

I was totally going to do my homework tonight and then...the internet happened. I'm not even sure what I was supposed to be reading.

 

[jmo1012]

i have a final exam in 4th year radiology tomorrow...

 

[Trilt]

fyi i posted the link only because it showed up on my newsfeed and i thought hmmm i bet sdn could use something else to procrastinate with

Unless that blog is a lot more popular than I expect it is, I bet we have a mutual friend (who shares a lot )

 

[jmo1012]

Unless that blog is a lot more popular than I expect it is, I bet we have a mutual friend (who shares a lot )

i dont think its unreasonable to think its a mutual friend given we're at the same small vet school

 

[Trilt]

i dont think its unreasonable to think its a mutual friend given we're at the same small vet school

Obviously! I actually bet we have lots. Just found it mildly amusing to discuss that here and then turn around and see it at the top of my feed.

 

[WillowLeaf]

I just realized that in a couple years I may likely be teaching some of the pre-vets on this board.

****. I better start acting like an adult.

Yes, these prevets/vet students will judge you very harshly if they think you're not acting enough like an adult.

But that tells you that I'm 23 and have played within the last year....

Shoot. Imagine all of the neopoints I could have collected in interest.....

i might log in at least weekly to do stocks/collect interest. I'm totally an adult I swear.

I might have logged in every day in December for the Advent Calendar.

 

[JosephKnechtDVM]

yeah, it is interesting to see a different perspective. And it is nice to see that she is very happy. I can now say that I am happy a good 90% of the time, with the other 10% just being annoyed... which is better than how I was a couple years ago.

I just think she doesn't fully grasp some of the issues in vet med.

I think the mentality of "you choose how you feel" kind of ignores some of the big problems vet med does have and almost puts a feeling of guilt onto those who don't just wake up every morning feel sunshine, roses and unicorn rainbow farts...

You mean it isn't all rainbows, butterflies and cute kittens while you save the world?

 

[dyachei]

It definitely seemed naive to me.

I wonder what type of internship she's in. I'm glad that she's happy. But as someone with chronic medical issues, I often want to crawl into my bed and never leave. Despite my much better working conditions.

 

[StartingoverVet]

I do disagree with this point she made:

Working long hours and being pushed to the breaking point is what will make you a better, more capable veterinarian.

Absolutely NOT. NO. This does NOT make you a better vet. Especially not being pushed to your breaking point. I have been there. It did not make me a better person. .

I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I don't really get why crap like this is perpetuated.

The whole "macho" attitude that pushing people beyond normal is "educational" is just insane.
Fatigue => mistakes => really bad outcomes. NOT LEARNING.
It took the human med profession a long time to final realize this and they are finally backing away from that modality.
Vet med is way behind.
In my current profession fatigue is just now starting to be addressed. When people are tired they are not effective, they are not learning, and the only real benefit is cheap labor.

Sure, if you are training soldiers or athletes this approach makes sense, but anything involving learning or performing a critical function. ABSO*****ing lutely not.

 

[DVMDream]

Sure, if you are training soldiers or athletes this approach makes sense, but anything involving learning or performing a critical function. ABSO*****ing lutely not.

I wouldn't want to be around a fellow soldier that is severely sleep-deprived. Many of them are carrying around semi-automatic weapons. Even my sister was firing weapons in the navy (became a sharp-shooter).

 

[NStarz]

I wouldn't want to be around a fellow soldier that is severely sleep-deprived. Many of them are carrying around semi-automatic weapons. Even my sister was firing weapons in the navy (became a sharp-shooter).

I agree with this. However, there are definitely situations where their jobs may require them to operate on very little sleep and I, for one, would rather that our armed forces be prepared and trained for situations when they are sleep-deprived.

 

[DVMDream]

I agree with this. However, there are definitely situations where their jobs may require them to operate on very little sleep and I, for one, would rather that our armed forces be prepared and trained for situations when they are sleep-deprived.

Very true. And they are very much sleep deprived during training...

 

[battie]

We have kind of gone off on a tangent here a little bit.....

 

[WildZoo]

When do we not, let's be real

 

[DVMDream]

We have kind of gone off on a tangent here a little bit.....

I don't see how it is off on a tangent... it is still making a point from that second blog article that was posted...

Besides, going off on tangents isn't a bad thing....

 

[battie]

I don't see how it is off on a tangent... it is still making a point from that second blog article that was posted...

Besides, going off on tangents isn't a bad thing....

Oh wow. Totally missed that second blog posting. I was keeping up on this thread through my phone and must of missed that posting in between the phone and computer transfer. lol. My bad.

I always mention tangents cause I tangent badly. We call them tangent trees in my family cause, some how, my tangents manage to bring us back to the original conversation about half an hour after we start talking. There are a lot of circular conversations with me.

 

[DVMDream]

Oh wow. Totally missed that second blog posting. I was keeping up on this thread through my phone and must of missed that posting in between the phone and computer transfer. lol. My bad.

I always mention tangents cause I tangent badly. We call them tangent trees in my family cause, some how, my tangents manage to bring us back to the original conversation about half an hour after we start talking. There are a lot of circular conversations with me.

Sometimes tangents can be annoying but sometimes they are fun. My high school biology teacher always went off on tangents but that was the most awesome class ever. Learned so much in that class, not even necessarily about biology.

 

[WildZoo]

I don't think I've ever had a long conversation that didn't go off on a tangent at some point

I don't see how it is off on a tangent... it is still making a point from that second blog article that was posted...

Besides, going off on tangents isn't a bad thing....

DVMD IS SMILING
THE END IS NIGH

 

[WillowLeaf]

Sometimes tangents can be annoying but sometimes they are fun. My high school biology teacher always went off on tangents but that was the most awesome class ever. Learned so much in that class, not even necessarily about biology.

My high school biology class was pretty awesome too. Isn't it great when high schools have good science programs that help get people interested in science? .... What were we talking about? Oh, yeah, tangents.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Sometimes tangents can be annoying but sometimes they are fun. My high school biology teacher always went off on tangents but that was the most awesome class ever. Learned so much in that class, not even necessarily about biology.

It's even better when the teacher gets so distracted, they forget to assign the homework.

Sleep deprivation:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hours-and-macho-culture-at-banks-8775917.html
One website said this might be a rumor so now I'm not sure if sleep deprivation did actually lead to his death now haha.
I feel that it's expected of certain groups to put in long, thankless, underpaid hours. Especially interns. Now, not all professions face the lack of paid internships like animal fields do, but it's definitely a problem. My unpaid internship had me working anywhere from 40-60 hours a week and in sometimes mildly dangerous situations. Or just really crappy ones. For one week, I was building the new waxy tree frog exhibit. I stood in a tank taller than I was, but maybe a foot wide. And to avoid contamination of the exhibit, I basically had to wear plastic trash bags. So I was pouring sweat and my butt was pressed against the inside of the tank for the public to see. And I was in there for about 7 hours a day haha. Getting in and out was scary. And I don't even want to know how many people took pictures of my butt since it was so ridiculous. It was obvious why the keepers pawned the task off on me.

I think it's a problem on both ends. Interns want to show their dedication and get ahead of the competition, but companies want free/cheap labor, labor without the constraints of unions, etc. As a whole, people are becoming more aware of how awful some internships can get and how they sometimes hinder student success. I wouldn't be surprised if, down the line, more laws regarding internships are put in place. There really is no need to expect an unpaid intern to be at the office more than one of the paid employees. There is also no reason why an intern should take out another loan to pay rent for an internship, either.

 

[WildZoo]

It's even better when the teacher gets so distracted, they forget to assign the homework.

Sleep deprivation:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hours-and-macho-culture-at-banks-8775917.html
One website said this might be a rumor so now I'm not sure if sleep deprivation did actually lead to his death now haha.
I feel that it's expected of certain groups to put in long, thankless, underpaid hours. Especially interns. Now, not all professions face the lack of paid internships like animal fields do, but it's definitely a problem. My unpaid internship had me working anywhere from 40-60 hours a week and in sometimes mildly dangerous situations. Or just really crappy ones. For one week, I was building the new waxy tree frog exhibit. I stood in a tank taller than I was, but maybe a foot wide. And to avoid contamination of the exhibit, I basically had to wear plastic trash bags. So I was pouring sweat and my butt was pressed against the inside of the tank for the public to see. And I was in there for about 7 hours a day haha. Getting in and out was scary. And I don't even want to know how many people took pictures of my butt since it was so ridiculous. It was obvious why the keepers pawned the task off on me.

I think it's a problem on both ends. Interns want to show their dedication and get ahead of the competition, but companies want free/cheap labor, labor without the constraints of unions, etc. As a whole, people are becoming more aware of how awful some internships can get and how they sometimes hinder student success. I wouldn't be surprised if, down the line, more laws regarding internships are put in place. There really is no need to expect an unpaid intern to be at the office more than one of the paid employees. There is also no reason why an intern should take out another loan to pay rent for an internship, either.

An unpaid internship had you working full time (plus overtime)??
That is just
No
I think I'd go 20 hrs/wk max doing unpaid work so I'd still have time for another job if I need it.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

An unpaid internship had you working full time (plus overtime)??
That is just
No
I think I'd go 20 hrs/wk max doing unpaid work so I'd still have time for another job if I need it.

Ohhh yeah. It was definitely a full time, unpaid internship. I should mention that it was for credit and I had to do it to be able to graduate. But still.
And since it was a zoo, you could be working anywhere from 6am or until 7pm (no interns on the night shift), any day of the week. So none of the interns in my group had luck finding a job that would be flexible enough.

 

[JosephKnechtDVM]

Sleep deprivation/shift work can be a very big contributor to errors leading to accidents as well as just falling asleep while on the job. That is why the Department of Transportation has restrictions on commercial/airline pilots and truck drivers work/sleep cycles. Constantly changing shift hours is also another factor. My father managed a nuclear power station for a decade after Three Mile Island Nuclear accident in 1979 where operator fatigue at 2am in the morning contributed to not recognizing the problem and solving it appropriately. Afterwards, there were rules in place about managing shifts and shift work put in place to avoid operator fatigue errors. And their training was very tough but thorough and then constantly reinforced through simulator training. You cannot work crazy hours in veterinary medicine like 6pm to 8am emergency shifts, 7 days on and then 7 days off for very long. Some dingus e-clinic owners even have prohibited veterinarians from taking naps in the very early morning when things often quieted down by removing beds because they think they should not be sleeping. I guess they forget human medical residents on call and your average fire station crew also sleep during those hours and are able to get up and respond to emergencies.

In the military, sleep deprivation is used to break down people's resistance. I took a military Survival Evasion Resistance and Escape course where they put you in those situations and then perform interrogations because you will likely make more mistakes, are easier to confuse and manipulate and then feel more guilty afterwards. I think military training with few opportunities to sleep are meant more for testing/building endurance and then weeding out people. I think the aim is to prepare people to make the sacrifices when needed but not make it a routine thing because everyone can be broken beyond a point of not coming back or just a general level of decreased performance. I think the military sees tough training as developing an asset to their mission and not just a sadistic "rite of passage" in order to earn their respect.

 

[chickenlittle]

Tangents aside, to go back to the original blog post....

Yes, it sounds like the clinic is not managed very well. BUT.... I'd argue that a LOT of clinics aren't very well-managed. You're likely going to have to work at one or more of those poorly-managed clinics during your career, so be prepared for it. Sure, we'd all love this profession if we could all work in well-managed dream clinics, but unfortunately that just isn't the reality,

 

[Minnerbelle]

Tangents aside, to go back to the original blog post....

Yes, it sounds like the clinic is not managed very well. BUT.... I'd argue that a LOT of clinics aren't very well-managed. You're likely going to have to work at one or more of those poorly-managed clinics during your career, so be prepared for it. Sure, we'd all love this profession if we could all work in well-managed dream clinics, but unfortunately that just isn't the reality,

This is so true... and so sad...

Something to think about is what it means when most employers in this profession are small business owners (who may have neither business nor HR sense). There's very little protection for the workers in these situations. And as an associate it sucks extra if your boss is also the type that wants a steroid, antibiotic, and vitamin shot for every patient.

 

[DVMDream]

sucks extra if your boss is also the type that wants a steroid, antibiotic, and vitamin shot for every patient.

That is annoying. Especially if the patient doesn't need an antibiotic or steroid.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

This is so true... and so sad...

Something to think about is what it means when most employers in this profession are small business owners (who may have neither business nor HR sense). There's very little protection for the workers in these situations. And as an associate it sucks extra if your boss is also the type that wants a steroid, antibiotic, and vitamin shot for every patient.

I don't know of any other profession off the top of my head where this statement is still as accurate.
Both SA vets I've worked with now have told me "Don't do what I do, I'm a horrible business person." I once had a thought in my mind that owning a practice could be cool. That was beaten out of me very quickly.

 

[dyachei]

I don't know of any other profession off the top of my head where this statement is still as accurate.
Both SA vets I've worked with now have told me "Don't do what I do, I'm a horrible business person." I once had a thought in my mind that owning a practice could be cool. That was beaten out of me very quickly.

It is cool. The trick is to learn the business aspect before opening a clinic. I'm pretty business minded and did things in a way that makes sense business wise. There's a very real possibility that my new clinic might actually break even this month as a result. I keep being told by those in the field that I'm doing things differently than a lot of vets

 

[allieh8607]

This would be a good time to plug the VBMA! I have learned so many valuable business skills through this organzation and I feel like other people are severely missing out since it's not really taught too in depth in the curriculum. Even if you don't want to be a business owner it's still great.

 

[dyachei]

This would be a good time to plug the VBMA! I have learned so many valuable business skills through this organzation and I feel like other people are severely missing out since it's not really taught too in depth in the curriculum. Even if you don't want to be a business owner it's still great.

Agreed.

I was a member but didn't do much. If you are interested in business ownership (which is a really good option, btw) you should definitely take business electives/courses that your school offers, too.

Business isn't *that* hard. But there are things to think about and that takes retraining your brain. For instance, almost every other field will make a business plan prior to opening a business. You should be able to have goals and expectations based on the area you would open in. And plan for the first 2 years. How many pets you need to see to break even, what kinds of prices you have to set, what your static bills are and what your dynamic bills are. Apparently, this doesn't happen often in vet med, but it should. If you need to buy drugs so that you can treat animals, do it. It doesn't make sense to handicap your ability to see pets to save $5-10 (which is often the case). Anyway, I'm always happy to answer any questions regarding clinic ownership.

 

[battie]

An unpaid internship had you working full time (plus overtime)??
That is just
No
I think I'd go 20 hrs/wk max doing unpaid work so I'd still have time for another job if I need it.

Looking at a lot of internships in my area, there are definitely a large chunk (probably between 30 and 40%, depending on the season) that are 40 hour a week unpaid internships. These instantly get no consideration from me because I have to juggle a lot of things money wise at this time. One is at an animal sanctuary about 36 miles from me. I drive a suburban, which would mean a ton of gas money that I wouldn't be replacing. While I can see the "payback" you get by doing internships (paid or unpaid), there is a line there.

Tangents aside, to go back to the original blog post....

Yes, it sounds like the clinic is not managed very well. BUT.... I'd argue that a LOT of clinics aren't very well-managed. You're likely going to have to work at one or more of those poorly-managed clinics during your career, so be prepared for it. Sure, we'd all love this profession if we could all work in well-managed dream clinics, but unfortunately that just isn't the reality,

One of the top reasons I left the clinic I was at. It started out great for the first three months. But the longer I stayed, the more disorganized I found the place to be. No consistency in the front desk area whatsoever. I was hyperaware of this because I was the front desk person four days a week. A good example is that dogs did not need to have an exam to get their booster vaccines if we had seen them in the last year for an exam. However, puppies had to have an exam for every vaccine booster round. The vet would also just "start the vaccines over" because, as she put it, she didn't know if the breeder/store/shelter/friend/whoever really did the previous vaccines, even if the new puppy owner came in with a list of vaccines the puppy had previously by wherever they got it. I got yelled at more times than I care to remember for not charging puppy people for an exam when they had an exam three weeks ago. Charging puppy parents an exam fee didn't start until about four and a half months after I started working there.

It is cool. The trick is to learn the business aspect before opening a clinic. I'm pretty business minded and did things in a way that makes sense business wise. There's a very real possibility that my new clinic might actually break even this month as a result. I keep being told by those in the field that I'm doing things differently than a lot of vets

What are you doing that is different?

 

[dyachei]

Looking at a lot of internships in my area, there are definitely a large chunk (probably between 30 and 40%, depending on the season) that are 40 hour a week unpaid internships. These instantly get no consideration from me because I have to juggle a lot of things money wise at this time. One is at an animal sanctuary about 36 miles from me. I drive a suburban, which would mean a ton of gas money that I wouldn't be replacing. While I can see the "payback" you get by doing internships (paid or unpaid), there is a line there.



One of the top reasons I left the clinic I was at. It started out great for the first three months. But the longer I stayed, the more disorganized I found the place to be. No consistency in the front desk area whatsoever. I was hyperaware of this because I was the front desk person four days a week. A good example is that dogs did not need to have an exam to get their booster vaccines if we had seen them in the last year for an exam. However, puppies had to have an exam for every vaccine booster round. The vet would also just "start the vaccines over" because, as she put it, she didn't know if the breeder/store/shelter/friend/whoever really did the previous vaccines, even if the new puppy owner came in with a list of vaccines the puppy had previously by wherever they got it. I got yelled at more times than I care to remember for not charging puppy people for an exam when they had an exam three weeks ago. Charging puppy parents an exam fee didn't start until about four and a half months after I started working there.



What are you doing that is different?

we started with a business plan. That is very different from the clinics in the area. We also projected our costs out over time for equipment. We minimize our fluid costs and basically focus on paying our fixed costs monthly. We also didn't skimp on medicine and spend time with each client explaining why we are doing what we are. We started from the ground up. we are 7 months in and about to break even. Most clinics don't hit that stage until year 1.5-2.

 

[battie]

we started with a business plan. That is very different from the clinics in the area. We also projected our costs out over time for equipment. We minimize our fluid costs and basically focus on paying our fixed costs monthly. We also didn't skimp on medicine and spend time with each client explaining why we are doing what we are. We started from the ground up. we are 7 months in and about to break even. Most clinics don't hit that stage until year 1.5-2.

I'd believe that. October was the first month the clinic I was working at broke even at it was 25 months in. Then we tanked hard in November. In your experience, is there any rhyme or reason to why other clinic owners don't start off with a business plan?

 

[dyachei]

I'd believe that. October was the first month the clinic I was working at broke even at it was 25 months in. Then we tanked hard in November. In your experience, is there any rhyme or reason to why other clinic owners don't start off with a business plan?

most vets aren't business oriented. I think that's the biggest issue. You have to have certain things in your practice. Not having them may seem like a financial save at first, but not having equipment means you can't charge for certain procedures. Like having digital radiographs. It's a huge selling point. Yes there is upfront cost, but you can also talk to clients about it and explain why it is superior to analog. That makes a difference. So many vets limit their expenditures in ways that do hurt their bottom line. Your initial loan should include all necessary equipment AND medication costs.

Location also plays a big role. Research that ahead of time. And research which certificates and registrations you need ahead of time. Like health inspections, etc. We started from scratch so we did that paperwork ahead of time to save on headache later.

 

[Gwenevre]

@dyachei I'm asking this off the assumption that you took out a loan for starting your practice, but don't all business loans need a well-thought out business plan before issuing a loan? How do other practices manage to get the loan needed to start a practice if they aren't business-minded and have a plan of action before obtaining the loan?
Having recently had a discussion about finances and loans with family, it was a thought in my head.